Movies

[Nemesis]

In conclusion ... Gore lost ... Bush won ... the Supreme Court was not the deciding factor ... get over it !!!

The Supreme Court was not the deciding factor in Bush becoming Prez? In your wet dreams it wasn't.

Bush the dry-drunk cocaine snorting AWOL lying Doublinthinking president was appointed by the Supreme Court to the US presidency as sure as Thais avoid confrontation at all costs.

[britmaveric]

Hmmm Nemesis I think if you ask a majority of people on this forum if you are a nutter- they most likely agree you are a nutter. Your intelligence shines through - I don't even need to say another word.

I can appreciate Kat's view at least she is credible in my eyes, I may disgree with her, but never the less it isn't rubbish thinking.

[Nemesis]

I don't care what people on this forum think of me. Most people are nutters, including me. It's the people who don't admit they are nutters who cause the rest of us the most problems.

[Nemesis]

"Stanley Hilton was a senior advisor to Sen Bob Dole ® and has personally known Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz for decades. This courageous man has risked his professional reputation, and possibly his life, to get this information out to people.

"This (9/11) was all planned. This was a government-ordered operation. Bush personally signed the order. He personally authorized the attacks. He is guilty of treason and mass murder." --Stanley Hilton

AJ: We'll have to recap this when we start the next hour, but just in a nutshell, you have a lawsuit going, you've deposed a lot of military officers. You know the truth of 9/11. Just in a nutshell, what is your case alleging?

SH: Our case is alleging that Bush and his puppets Rice and Cheney and Mueller and Rumsfeld and so forth, Tenet, were all involved not only in aiding and abetting and allowing 9/11 to happen but in actually ordering it to happen. Bush personally ordered it to happen. We have some very incriminating documents as well as eye-witnesses, that Bush personally ordered this event to happen in order to gain political advantage, to pursue a bogus political agenda on behalf of the neocons and their deluded thinking in the Middle East. I also wanted to point out that, just quickly, I went to school with some of these neocons. At the University of Chicago, in the late 60s with Wolfowitz and Feith and several of the others and so I know these people personally. And we used to talk about this stuff all of the time. And I did my senior thesis on this very subject - how to turn the U.S. into a presidential dictatorship by manufacturing a bogus Pearl Harbor event. So, technically this has been in the planning at least 35 years.

Bush Authorized 911 Attaqcks

Reality is a bitch folks. Get over it.

[Nemesis]

For you reality avoiders, give us one, just one shred of evidence that Al Qaeda / bin Laden was involved in 9/11.

Just one.

[poolcleaner]

I don't care what people on this forum think of me.  Most people are nutters, including me. It's the people who don't admit they are nutters who cause the rest of us the most problems.

That's the people, who ARE nutters, who don't admit they are nutters, causing the rest of us, who ARE nutters, problems.

Does that mean the aforesaid nutters in denial are not causing us non nutters any problems or in fact are we the nutters in denial, and therefore we are causing the problems?

Keep up the good work agent Nem.

[kat]

Wait, wait you guys, I can be as nutters as the rest of them Just ask people who went to grad school with me not so long ago

But in all seriousness, I have heard Nem's argument before from other British conspiracy theorists. I have been known to harbor a couple of good theories of my own.

I think it's fair to thrash them all out if one really believes them and if there is good evidence or grounds for them. In this case, I do think Nem has grounds (given the history of American foreign and domestic policy, and the American politcal machine when it comes to Israel) and I can see why this conspiracy theory has flesh to some people, but ...

That doesn't mean we should accept everything we hear to justify our favorite point of view. I find the story that the American government set up the attack without OBL hard to believe. However, I do support the FACT that they knew in advance and blundered terribly.

But in the end, conspiracy theories are popular until someone can prove them wrong. There is possibly a part of me that does wonder, could this threat and warning have been ignored, after Bush's failed attempt to get an oil pipeline agreement with the Talibans, and their resolve to finish off Iraq even before he got into the White House? Does make you wonder.

However, I need the proof. Right now, all the witnesses and testimonies are that they ignored the signs, which could as easily and more likely have been because of the politically partisan environment in which they made the decision to ignore.

[Nemesis]

19 Arabs with boxcutters overtook passengers, stewardesses, pilots and navigation engineers (mostly ex-Air Force personnel) on three planes, flew those jumbo jets with no actual experience flying real planes before, through the most protected airspace in the world, and navigated those planes into their intended targets before being intercepted by the most sophisticated and powerful airforce in the history of the world, while the Commander in Chief Bush sat in a school room in Florida listening to a goat story for 20 minutes while all this was going on with a dumb ass look on his face. Then those three steel and concrete buildings fell to the ground although no other steel and concrete buildings in history had ever collapsed due to a fire and WTC building 7 collapsed that afternoon although it wasn't even hit and then not one US government bureaucrat has been fired / reprimanded for negligence and neither has one terrorist suspect been brought to trial and convicted in three years for what happened on 9/11.

If you believe that, my folks, YOU believe in conspiracy theories.

LMFHO

[Nemesis]

Does that mean the aforesaid nutters in denial are not causing us non nutters any problems or in fact are we the nutters in denial, and therefore we are causing the problems?

Thanks for making my point that we are all nutters.

[kat]

and then not one US government bureaucrat has been fired / reprimanded for negligence and neither has one terrorist suspect been brought to trial and convicted in three years for what happened on 9/11.

Nemesis:

This is not completely true. There have been people that were fired or resigned, both in the months leading up to 9/11 and after. Just go done to any bookstore and most of their books will be for sale.

Secondly, we have videotape of the suicide bombers, and phone messages from people who were about to die on those planes.

In terms of Dubya's dumbass look, well, that's pretty much a constant.

There is no way, the US government could of hired suicide bombers mostly from Saudi Arabia without the world hearing about it by now.

Not stopping the attacks, yes, by negligence, stupidity, politics, or design, well, for me, that is up for discussion.

But to shoot themselves in the foot by taking down the World Trade Towers, and the American economy (although, one could argue that it was a prelude to the hi-tech outsourcing scourge - since most of the white collars are unemployed, no one would notice speel), but I don't think so Nem. I don't think the Bushies would of risked potential public backlash against their good friends the Saudis.

I think this conspiracy theory has strayed a bit off course.

[meemiathai]

US Government(oh God! Just how many were involved?) is capable of conducting the 911 attack but is incapable of plugging a bullet in MM's ass to stop him from farting BS!!!! MM is a clown! Like every clown in the world, plays clown to make money!

I guess it's easy as well to find Arabs that are willing to die for the US government!

50% of the people in NYC believed that their govt. was behind the 911 attack?

And people are still sitting their asses at home instead of causing uproars and demonstrating in the streets! Why not say 90%? It might convince more people.

[meemiathai]

19 Arabs with boxcutters overtook passengers, stewardesses, pilots and navigation engineers (mostly ex-Air Force personnel) on three planes, flew those jumbo jets with no actual experience flying real planes before, through the most protected airspace in the world, and navigated those planes into their intended targets before being intercepted by the most sophisticated and powerful airforce in the history of the world, while the Commander in Chief Bush sat in a school room in Florida listening to a goat story for 20 minutes while all this was going on with a dumb ass look on his face. Then those three steel and concrete buildings fell to the ground although no other steel and concrete buildings in history had ever collapsed due to a fire and WTC building 7 collapsed that afternoon although it wasn't even hit and then not one US government bureaucrat has been fired / reprimanded for negligence and neither has one terrorist suspect been brought to trial and convicted in three years for what happened on 9/11.

If you believe that, my folks, YOU believe in conspiracy theories.

LMFHO

And you(qualified?) are to judge that these things are impossible to happen!

How much do you know about air traffic? How much do you know about architecture?

[kat]

50% of the people in NYC believed that their govt. was behind the 911 attack?

And people are still sitting their asses at home instead of causing uproars and demonstrating in the streets! Why not say 90%? It might convince more people.

I'm from New York. I must of missed that survey. ######, I'm never one of the surveyed.

[britmaveric]

For you reality avoiders, give us one, just one shred of evidence that Al Qaeda bin Laden was involved in 9/11. Just one.

1. Let's see Bin Laden admitted to it on videotape.

Structural Engineers have said WTO collapsed due to poor design - not anticipating jumbo jets with a full load of fuel crashing into them.

Collapse of WTO Link

Hijacking- well from the stand point prior to 9/11 policy of hijackers wasn't suicide, but to get demands met by taking hostages. Airline policy is for crew and passenegers to cooperate in order to prevent loss of life. So most would have sat their idlely - now if they would have known it was a suicide mission they would have fought back like the UAL flight that crashed in PA.

[meemiathai]

By the way, the Predators are having a big fight with the Aliens!

So, be careful, Nem!

[meemiathai]

Hijacking- well from the stand point prior to 9/11 policy of hijackers wasn't suicide, but to get demands met by taking hostages. Airline policy is for crew and passenegers to cooperate in order to prevent loss of life. So most would have sat their idlely - now if they would have known it was a suicide mission they would have fought back like the UAL flight that crashed in PA.

I really hate explaining things to adults(instead of 3 year old boys) like putting toilet seats up before you pee because you don't want them to get wet.

But, Brit, good that you did it!

[Tornado]

One good thing about having this thread is when the truth does come out, we have all our thoughts locked in here - then we can say who the nuts really are.

Why do you guys say stupid comments like "conspiracy theory" or "nut jobs" or just make a mockery of what is presented. How the ###### would you know what happened? You have either read it or saw some form of television coverage, you were not front seat eye witnesses as we were'nt - so at the end of the day, you know what we know (a little less actually as some of us do research on this subject). You come up with no "proof" to win your argument and you just spout of with ridiculous comments.

I wouldnt dare to say anything is 100% accurate, but one thing I know is that anything is possible.

Grow up and try an argument with some form of substantiated text.

[Tornado]

Do yourself a favour and read this link, it has links to back up everything that is put forward http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?showtopic=2379.

Dont be scared, stretch those brain cells and try to come up with a plausable argument.

[Tornado]

US Government(oh God! Just how many were involved?) is capable of conducting the 911 attack but is incapable of plugging a bullet in MM's ass to stop him from farting BS!!!! MM is a clown! Like every clown in the world, plays clown to make money!

I guess it's easy as well to find Arabs that are willing to die for the US government!

50% of the people in NYC believed that their govt. was behind the 911 attack?

And people are still sitting their asses at home instead of causing uproars and demonstrating in the streets! Why not say 90%? It might convince more people.

50 % of New Yorkers polled do believe the government had something to do with it and about 70% of the worlds governments also do. This is all availbale to you on many websites throughout the world, you can even find the polls and who was involved.

Do not make another member look like and idiot as I will prove you wrong time and time again.

What happened on 911? I dont know, but neither do you!

Hmm let me see - Meemiathai or subsantiated news items? - hmmmmm

http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?showtopic=2379

Go an do some homework and come back with something to back up your argument!

[britmaveric]

Tornado- I read that rubbish. These are conspiracy theorists who don't even get main stream news attention. This is about as credible source as me using Dame Edna. (least she is funny)

http://www.propagandamatrix.com

[francois]

hi'

read your own history before you acquire airs.

| return the compliment to you ... re read yours!

how america is america now and helped us out then?

nobody helped you at the time?

just remember that some french general helped your ancestors out from the english empire ... this is history!

you have a selective memory or short one

if france have chosen to make a law about "this scarf " (your own words), there is a reason, the french republic can't afford islamic people to have any kind of influence on the country's life!

we see this growing, and just want it to stop!

we won't be the slave of any islamic country.

can US say the same? (thinking about oil)

I just said ... most american don't have a critical view or judgement about what they see or hear or watch ... just a part of reality.

I won't talk about this anymore ... it's useless for me to discuss subject that concern the whole world with narrow minded americans, like your warlord!

francois

ps; I wont forget the help that americans, canadians, english, australian, thais,

and all the others who helped europe and died for, to get rid of ah ....

just seems to me that you forgot why america is called america today, and not a province of england ...

[Tornado]

meemiathai must be doing some research - googling are we? good to see!

That is how you debate!

Britmaverick, you still dont offer anything to this "debate", nothing but your own thoughts - think outside the box and come up with something - I dare ya

[Nemesis]

Nemesis:

This is not completely true. There have been people that were fired or resigned, both in the months leading up to 9/11 and after. Just go done to any bookstore and most of their books will be for sale.

Secondly, we have videotape of the suicide bombers, and phone messages from people who were about to die on those planes.

False. Give us the name of one government employee fired because of negligence re: 9/11. Just one.

Secondly, we are told those are video tapes of the "hijackers." I've seen those videos and they have no date / time stamps. All other surveilance videos have date / time stamps on them.

You mean the phone messages where the guy calls his mom and tells her "this is Mark (Surname)?" When was the last time you called your mom and identified yourself using your last name? lol I've probably called my mother a thousand times and not once have I identified myself using my last name.

You are a good example of someone who has been easily fooled by the slip slod propaganda / cover-up / fraud / hoax techinques used by the government to hoodwink its citizens.

Do some detective work and you'll soon be on the same page.

[Nemesis]

These are conspiracy theorists who don't even get main stream news attention.

There is where you make your mistake. You think mainstream media is more credible than Internet sources. They ain't.

“The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media.”

William Colby former Director of the CIA

“The [Jewish] owners and managers of the press determine which person, which facts, which version of the facts, and which ideas shall reach the public.”

Report by the Commission on Freedom of the Press

quoted in Democracy for the Few, by Michael Parenti

and Don’t Blame the People, by Robert Cirino

“We paid $3 billion for these television stations. We will decide what the news is. The news is what we tell you it is.”

David Boylan WTVT station manager April 16, 1997

“The corporate grip on opinion in the United States is one of the wonders of the Western world. No First World country has ever managed to eliminate so entirely from its media all objectivity — much less dissent.

“Of course, it is possible for any citizen with time to spare, and a canny eye, to work out what is actually going on, but for the many there is not time, and the network news is the only news even though it may not be news at all but only a series of flashing fictions...”

Gore Vidal The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”

Joseph Goebbels Nazi Propaganda Minister

Get on the same page dude.

[sleir]

Since this thread was originally about the movie and what people who saw it (or couldn't) think about it... well...

let me take up a point IamMaiC has brought up :

the picture of the smiling iraqi kids before the attack on baghdad...

it was indeed something that disturbed me greatly in the movie too...

every sensible (wo-)man knows that the city was not a terribly happy or wealthy place before and after the attack. it was certainly "better" in the viewpoint of a citizen, i think after a second of thought we could all agree to that. the prospect of maybe getting a proper democrazy does certainly not outweigh the terror, death and chaos the cities citizens had and still have to endure.

so much about that... now mm was trying to paint the picture of a peaceful, independant iraq...which is certainly wrong, altho he did not once

mention anything "wrong" for he is very careful on that...

now if we look at the picture material he's used (i did not recognise it while watching 9/11 but later informed myself a bit) to draw this picture :

the kids we see playing before the attack is video material of a wedding just before the bombing of baghdad. the destroyed building we see afterwards is of the same location where many people of that same wedding including bride and broom got killed... tragic ? indeed. propaganda ? also.

he is no no way attempting to draw a realistic picture of what was and is happening in iraq. first he tried to demonise the soldiers by showing and quoting them as "semi-retarded" (sorry for the strong word) gun-freak teenagers, shooting everything they see while listening to rock music, then he's trying to victimize them as poor, good boys sent down there on false pretenses... very awkward.

and as i wrote in an earlier post : while trying to show the influence the saudis have in the usa and how many of the terrorists were saudis, how well connected they are to the government and the bush-clan... what does he try to tell us ?

the saudis are evil ? it was the saudi government or rich financiers that attacked the usa ? quite funny ideas here as well...

bad movie, good purpose ?

sleir.

[Tornado]

Since this thread was originally about the movie and what people who saw it (or couldn't) think about it... well...

let me take up a point IamMaiC has brought up :

the picture of the smiling iraqi kids before the attack on baghdad...

it was indeed something that disturbed me greatly in the movie too...

every sensible (wo-)man knows that the city was not a terribly happy or wealthy place before and after the attack. it was certainly "better" in the viewpoint of a citizen, i think after a second of thought we could all agree to that. the prospect of maybe getting a proper democrazy does certainly not outweigh the terror, death and chaos the cities citizens had and still have to endure.

so much about that... now mm was trying to paint the picture of a peaceful, independant iraq...which is certainly wrong, altho he did not once

mention anything "wrong" for he is very careful on that...

now if we look at the picture material he's used (i did not recognise it while watching 9/11 but later informed myself a bit) to draw this picture :

the kids we see playing before the attack is video material of a wedding just before the bombing of baghdad. the destroyed building we see afterwards is of the same location where many people of that same wedding including bride and broom got killed... tragic ? indeed. propaganda ? also.

he is no no way attempting to draw a realistic picture of what was and is happening in iraq. first he tried to demonise the soldiers by showing and quoting them as "semi-retarded" (sorry for the strong word) gun-freak teenagers, shooting everything they see while listening to rock music, then he's trying to victimize them as poor, good boys sent down there on false pretenses... very awkward.

and as i wrote in an earlier post : while trying to show the influence the saudis have in the usa and how many of the terrorists were saudis, how well connected they are to the government and the bush-clan... what does he try to tell us ?

the saudis are evil ? it was the saudi government or rich financiers that attacked the usa ? quite funny ideas here as well...

bad movie, good purpose ?

sleir.

Sitting on the fence hurts your ass after a while, what do YOU actually think?

[Nemesis]

How much do you know about air traffic? How much do you know about architecture?

I just happen to be a licensed pilot and I know that whenever a pilot in a Metro area strays off his assigned course even a few degrees that ATC is all over him. There is a standard policy in the States to send up an intercepter plane for any commercial airliner that is off course. This was done several times in the time period leading up to 9/11. Furthermore, there were no successful hijakcers in the US for almost 10 years prior to 9/11. But four on one day and not one was intercepted? All of these in the most protected airspace in the world. Give me a break.

Did you know we have discovered that the Pentagon was conducting war games on the morning of September 11? No, you don't do you? There were up to 22 different bogus blips on the radar screens all over the Northeast that morning and the ATC NORAD people thought it was a "game."

I am also a licensed building contractor, But that has f*ckall to do with the fact that the fires never got hot enough to melt steel. Why do you think oxy/actylene torches are used to cut through steel? And arc welders are need to weld steel together? Because it takes extreme temps to melt steel.

Furthermore, no steel / concrete building has ever fallen due to a fire. And yet we had three code built structures downed in a single day. One of the Bldgs, WTC 7 wasn't even hit by a plane full of fuel and yet it collapsed. Why?

There were 400 questions given to the Bogus 9/11 Commission that were not answered. Why? The families of the victimes want answers to those questions and 66% of New Yorkers want a private independent investigation into 9/11.

You don't know what your are talking about.

[Nemesis]

while trying to show the influence the saudis have in the usa and how many of the terrorists were saudis,

How do we 'know' the 'hijackers' were Saudies? Because my government tells me so? Boyare you dumb.

The fact of the matter is eight of the alleged suicide 'hijackers' are reportedly still alive and well.

[Nemesis]

More and more individuals are looking at the facts and highlighting exercise drills that took place on the morning of 9/11.

It is clear that at least five if not six training exercises were in operation in the days leading up to and on the morning of 9/11. This meant that NORAD radar screens showed as many as 22 hijacked airliners at the same time. NORAD had been briefed that this was part of the exercise drill and therefore normal reactive procedure was forestalled and delayed.

The large numbers of 'blips' on NORAD screens that displayed both real and 'drill' hijacked planes explain why confused press reports emerged hours after the attack stating that up to eight planes had been hijacked. Click here for that article.

The drill scenario also explains a comment made by air traffic control personnel which was featured in a July 2004 BBC television report. Click here for that video clip and article. The controller is told that a hijacked airliner is heading for New York and responds by saying, "is this real world or an exercise?"

Alex Jones was one of the first to highlight the wargames in his documentary film 'Masters of Terror', which was released in August 2002. Click here to watch a video clip. Alex explains why the Associated Press later had to admit the fact that the CIA were running drills of crashing planes into buildings on the morning of 9/11.

What were the drills called and what was their nature?

1) OPERATION NORTHERN VIGILANCE: This was planned months in advance of 9/11 and ensured that on the morning of 9/11, jet fighters were removed from patrolling the US east coast and sent to Alaska and Canada, therefore reducing the amount of fighter planes available to protect the east coast.

2) BIOWARFARE EXERCISE TRIPOD II: Alex Jones first reported on this back in May when Rudolph Giuliani let the details of it slip in his testimony to the 9/11 Commission. FEMA arrived in New York on September 10th to set up a command post located at Pier 29 under the auspices of a 'biowarfare exercise scheduled for September 12. This explains why Tom Kenney of FEMA's National Urban Search and Rescue Team, told Dan Rather of CBS News that FEMA had arrived in New York on the night of September 10th. This was originally dismissed as a slip of the tongue. Giuliani was to use this post as a command post on 9/11 after he evacuated WTC Building 7. As we reported back in January, Giuliani knew when to leave WTC 7 because he got advanced warning that the Trade Towers were about to collapse. "We were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse," Rudolph Giuliani told Peter Jennings of ABC News. How did Giuliani know the towers were about to collapse when no steel building in history had previously collapsed from fire damage?

3) OPERATION VIGILANT GUARDIAN: This exercise simulated hijacked planes in the north eastern sector and started to coincide with 9/11. Lt. Col. Dawne Deskins, NORAD unit's airborne control and warning officer, was overseeing the exercise. At 8:40am she took a call from Boston Center which said it had a hijacked airliner. Her first words, as quoted by Newhouse News Service were, "It must be part of the exercise." This is another example of how the numerous drills on the morning of 9/11 deliberately distracted NORAD so that the real hijacked planes couldn't be intercepted in time.

4) OPERATION NORTHERN GUARDIAN: The details of this exercise are still scant but it is considered to be part of Vigilant Guardian, relating to simulating hijacked planes in the north eastern sector.

5) OPERATION VIGILANT WARRIOR: This was referenced in Richard Clarke's book 'Against All Enemies'. It is thought to have been the 'attack' component of the Vigilant Guardian exercise.

You won't find the above in the mainstream media.

But you can here: 9/11 Stuff and War Games

[Tornado]

Nemisis' post is better read in the bearpit (links above) or on the actuall website URL he provided as it has all the links to back up the claims suggested.

This info is far more plausable than anything else Ive seen or read.