Ladyboys

[PeaceBlondie]

I think most of the Farangs don't know what a ladyboy is.

When Thais speak about a ladyman(boy) they mean a lesbian girl dressed and act like a man. So a ladyboy is a girl. A man dressed and act like a girl(lady) is in thai called manlady or more common Katoey.

I understand that lesbians (women who have always been female and prefer to have sex with other females) are called "Toms" or some are called "Dees." My Thai boyfriend says you don't understand. Ladyboys are queeny men, with men's sex organ, who behave like women.

I'm a formerly married man who's now gay. I like men. I don't mind if a gay man is a little bit effeminate. But why would a man who wants a man go looking for a former male who's post op, and now resembles a woman in every physical way except the voice? If you want someone with a vagina, there is no shortage of original issue vaginas in Thailand.

Just listen to the old song, "Lola" where he concludes, "I know I'm a man, and so's Lola!"

[cutethaigirl]

I'm a formerly married man who's now gay. I like men. I don't mind if a gay man is a little bit effeminate. But why would a man who wants a man go looking for a former male who's post op, and now resembles a woman in every physical way except the voice? If you want someone with a vagina, there is no shortage of original issue vaginas in Thailand.

You answered your own question.

You like men. Up to you.

Someone like man that made to be like woman. Up to you.

In Thailand you have a lot of choice and nobody cares about it either way.

[Narachon]

I wonder how often the real females rat out the ladyboys to customers or if they keep their mouths shut or encourage you to walk out with the ladyboy? I've seen a lot of post-ops (although not in the nether regions) and it is hard to tell.

Anyone seen the after-surgery? Is it realistic?

It probably all depends on the bar and the Girls(!) there, I think. In some places, there is very fierce competition between the Katoeys and the real Bar girls for the customers, and in other places, the Bar girls are good friends with the Katoeys. I was at one place, and a girl actually brought over her Kaotey friend and asked me to also give her(!) a lady drink ( I really liked the regular girl, so I said yes! ) . The Katoey was also a stunner, but this time, I could tell that it was formerly a man!

That Katoey wanted me to barfine both she/he/it, and the real bar girl that I was interested in , in a threesome(!), but I was not interested. I may not be a prude, but there are some things that even I am afraid to try! ) So in that case, there is mutual help between regular Bargirl and Katoey Bar girl. I wouldn't be surprised if some regular Barlgirls actually keep their mouth shut and let guys walk out of the bar with a Katoey!

But then again, In my first Post on this thread which I described, there was definitely a competion between that beautiful Katoey and the regular average looking real bargirls. I don't know if that person was really a Katoey, but more than one girl in that bar told me it was. I guess when down to simple economics,with the super ultrafeminine Kateoy taking most of the business and the spotlight away from the regular Bargirls, they were then begining telling the customers "Cavet Empor"..... ) It seemed from what I heard, that many men were going with her, and not knowing that it was a Katoey, even after the fact!

Anyone seen the after-surgery? Is it realistic?

Since I am fortuanate to have never seen a Post Op Thai transexual privates close up - only from a distance, But I would assume that it would be pretty real looking, Thai plastic surgeon doctors are masters in this field! They can even do things to make Post-ops actually sound like real women!

[rainman]

Breaking News: It is apparent that my favorite sandwich place (Subway) has now been over-ran, yes, absolutely over-ran by ladyboys. The place is stuffed both inside and outside and it appears to be some kind of evening/night meeting place. I have observed this several nights in a row. Also, if you go upstairs and happen to walk by the little bathroom when its open, you may see two ladyboys inside at once. One checking her make-up in the mirror and another one behind peeing while standing there with her back to you in a mini-skirt. Its a crazy sight, let me tell you.

This is rainman, reporting (almost) live from Sukhumvit.

[ClitPirate]

I think most of the Farangs don't know what a ladyboy is.

When Thais speak about a ladyman(boy) they mean a lesbian girl dressed and act like a man. So a ladyboy is a girl. A man dressed and act like a girl(lady) is in thai called manlady or more common Katoey.

I understand that lesbians (women who have always been female and prefer to have sex with other females) are called "Toms" or some are called "Dees." My Thai boyfriend says you don't understand. Ladyboys are queeny men, with men's sex organ, who behave like women.

I'm a formerly married man who's now gay. I like men. I don't mind if a gay man is a little bit effeminate. But why would a man who wants a man go looking for a former male who's post op, and now resembles a woman in every physical way except the voice? If you want someone with a vagina, there is no shortage of original issue vaginas in Thailand.

Just listen to the old song, "Lola" where he concludes, "I know I'm a man, and so's Lola!"

Tom Dee is the nic for Lesbos....Tom is the butchie and Dee is the Feme. Thai people are not so effected by perople sexual persuasions. I know of a Dee who likes men also. She had a Tom who like to see her get balled from a guy, Up to them!

[rod_kalashnikov]

Anyone seen the after-surgery? Is it realistic?

I guess it depends on the skill of the surgeon. I knew a 22 year old ethnic Chinese girl in Saigon in the 1960s who'd had a (very expensive) sex change operation in Switzerland at the age of 12. She wasn't homosexual ... she was simply born in the wrong body ... and her parents were wealthy enough to have the problem rectified. She couldn't bear children, of course ... but in all other respects she was all girl. I was a wild child and I knew my way around the female anatomy, but there was no way I would have known she'd been born male if she hadn't told me.

[Doi Thong]

It's a new, free, not commercial yahoo group dedicated to most beautiful and gorgeous Thai ladyboys. Feel free to join and ask questions/share experiences.

Here the link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thailadyboy/

[Hermano Lobo]

i am busy researching the whole thai katoey phenomenon at the moment & hope to have my book on the subject published early next year...

i do hear tell that katoeys may be procured from the following places: -

casanova bar at NEP...

obsessions at NEP...

KC3 at patpong....

hanging around lower sukhumvit (after 2am)...

kings corner at PP (post-ops)...

oh... & the list goes on, but you now have a few places in which to begin your quest...  

On your travels with your research can you PM or e-mail me if you come across or hear about a Ladyboy who used to be called 'Salome'. She changed her name to 'Sheba' and when the Go-go of that name appeared in Soi Cowboy she changed it to 'Apple'. I don't know what she calls herself know?

Here are her details:-

Age: About 23

Body: Like that of a 'Western' starlet.

Legs: Long like a fashion model

Hair: Blond streaks -

Height:1.75 metres (approx)

Cock: 8 ins

Bosom: 36ins D cup

Sex: Nymphomaniac

Starsign: Pisces

Personality: Dramatic, sexy, very good sense of humour

Education: College/University

Language: Thai + English

Interests: Selling objects D'art, astrology, archaeology,dance theatre.

Politics: Left wing, a big fan of Ernesto 'Che' Guevara

Location: Bangkok, Pattaya.

Cost: The most expensive

Mr Harry Palmer I hope you can use your 'Ipcress' detective skills to some success. It is very important I track this Ladyboy, I haven't had much luck so far.

Cheers,

Yuri

[pluto_manibo]

It is apparent that my favorite sandwich place (Subway) has now been over-ran, yes, absolutely over-ran by ladyboys.

They must like the 12 incher meatball sandwich.....

[ThePreacher]

Each to their own, live and let live. If you cant tell then you are out of your depth.

[ThePreacher]

As a novice are their any lesbian Go Go bars in BKK or Pattaya?

[Tornado]

over 10,000 views and only 41 replies - closet getting stuffy?

[Santini]

It is apparent that my favorite sandwich place (Subway) has now been over-ran, yes, absolutely over-ran by ladyboys.

They must like the 12 incher meatball sandwich.....

And i bet they prefer it a Foot long....

With Extra Cheese....

[ThePreacher]

Same question any Lesbian Go Go bars in BKK or Pattaya?????

[lbd2005]

I am going Thailand in december many people have mentioned the ladyboys to me and before reading this topic, I was pretty confident I could tell the difference.

But now I am a little worried.

[chonabot]

Katoeys...

What's the attraction?

Please I'm bi-curious.

Sorry Pat I couldn't resist..

[Limbo]

This thread about ladyboys counted already 13.208 visitors.

I noticed that threads about sex are most popular in this form, but that so many people are thrilled by ladyboys I didn't know. It makes me curious.

[curveblade]

(This thread about ladyboys counted already 13.208 visitors.

I noticed that threads about sex are most popular in this form, but that so many people are thrilled by ladyboys I didn't know. It makes me curious.)

Limbo,

Very simple. Most westerners have never seen a real LadyBoy and are curious.

I had heard of them but was shocked when I saw how much they looked like real women. In many cases much better. I never believed though that I could ever be fooled by one and would surely know the difference. One proved me wrong. So I no longer rely on my judgement. I just ask them outright. Never had one get mad or insulted (yet). They usually just smile and say yes. Someone asked if there is competion between the Ladyboys and the regular girls. Yes there is, in many cases.

The ladyboys often get many of the customers because they are so outgoing. They are quick to meet you at the door with the big smile. But at the same time, many of the ladyboys have friends among the girls too. While ladyboys are not my style, I have no problem with buying one a beer and chating for awhile. Most that I have met are friendly and have a good sense of humor.

[Hermano Lobo]

This thread about ladyboys counted already 13.208 visitors.

I have no problem with buying one a beer and chating for awhile. Most that I have met are friendly and have a good sense of humor.

"I have no problem with buying one a beer and chating for awhile. Most that I have met are friendly and have a good sense of humor."

Usually I shy away from these situations but still have a short friendly chat.

I must admit a sense of humour to me is priceless. The more the better !

Some people have told me that Ladyboys have a college education.

If so, how well are they educated ? Or does it vary a great deal ?

You Ladyboy experts out there must know?

My one contact with a highly educated one is the exception that proves the rule?

Or is it more common ?

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Anyone coming to Thailand for the first time need not worry about the ladyboys.

The best way to be sure if she is or isn't is to see if after a month she has a period and buys lots of jam-rags and fanny nappies from Family Mart.

If she doesn't then she's a katoey, if she does, hey presto! She's all woman.

[stroll]

What is it now? Day29? Has yours bought her nappies yet, GS?

[Limbo]

Thank you Mr. Curvblade,

So you think most of the people who like to read about Ladyboys are not living in Thailand. That didn't occur to me.

You probably are right.

So a thread like this is more like the picture of a girl with invisible clothes in a magazine. Something you look first at before you start with the heavier stuff.

I am living in a smaller town. Of course even here are ladyboys. Almost every village here in the neighbourhood seems to have its own ladyboy.

And on village-parties they behave like their exemplaries on television. Like a kind of village court jesters. In this function they are accepted. Especially the women like them. Sometimes drunken men become jealeous because of this and they kick them.

I like Pi Ma very much. She was the one who broke the ice already many years ago. She lives together with a foreigner. There is hardly a day she is not on television.

Long live the ladyboys!

[Limbo]

Some people have told me that Ladyboys have a college education.

If so, how well are they educated ? Or does it vary a great deal ?

Yes Mr. Hermano Lobo,

I think that these people gave you the right information. Most indeed will have Matayom 6, but some might have finished their studies after Matayom 3.

How well they are educated depends a little bit on the school they attended and this in combination with their own specific intellectual capacities.

So you are correct when you suggest that it might vary.

To understand this complex matter you just might compair it with people who like tennis (or meatballs, or spaghetti, or biking) in your own country.

Even there you can observe the same structure in educational levels. Some will be higher educated than others.

But there are no special colleges for ladyboys, if that might be the consideration for you to ask the question.

[Hermano Lobo]

Some people have told me that Ladyboys have a college education.

If so, how well are they educated ? Or does it vary a great deal ?

Yes Mr. Hermano Lobo,

I think that these people gave you the right information. Most indeed will have Matayom 6, but some might have finished their studies after Matayom 3.

How well they are educated depends a little bit on the school they attended and this in combination with their own specific intellectual capacities.

So you are correct when you suggest that it might vary.

To understand this complex matter you just might compair it with people who like tennis (or meatballs, or spaghetti, or biking) in your own country.

Even there you can observe the same structure in educational levels. Some will be higher educated than others.

But there are no special colleges for ladyboys, if that might be the consideration for you to ask the question.

"But there are no special colleges for ladyboys, if that might be the consideration for you to ask the question."

No, Mr Limbo I am not asking if there are any special colleges for Ladyboys, only apart from speaking English do some follow interests? Like the one who had an Objets D'Art stall run with college friends in Jatujak? Or, 'seriously' into films or anything else other than just bars and sex?

The few I have spoken to seem easily bright enough to do other things but I did not ask at the time.

Cheers,

Hermano Lobo

[chanchao]

Some quick remarks, not to anyone in particular:

* Ratting out by a real girl saying that so and so is a ladyboy is very low, and if she gets found out (which is likely, especially if the guy freaks and wants to confirm) then it can likely result into trouble between girl and ladyboy. Then again, it may not even be true, maybe she's actually a real girl and she's lieing to get you to turn the other girl down..... In any case, it's low.

* Trying to hide her (original) gender by a ladyboy is counterproductive. Too bad that some don't realize this, but many (if not most) do. Just ask.

* Yes, many men specifically go for a 'woman' that also 'has a dick'. It's a fetish I suppose, similar to guys who go for sm/bondage and loads more things that are 'different'. Ladyboys would be wise to focus on this group and not bother with trying to deceive the (newbie) guys who will likely freak out at the mere sight of some male anatomy.

* All gays I've talked to are not in the least (sexually) attracted to ladyboys. Makes sense of course.

* Why would a ladyboy having a pee at the toilet at Subway freak anyone out? Should they just find a wall somewhere? Take it easy.

* Beware of confusing the ladyboys you see working as hookers in bars with ladyboys in general. The ones in bars (or worse, on the street) are more likely to be even less mentally stable then even bargirls can be.

* Who was it who said that the attraction lies in the fact that ladyboys don't lay on the same spiel as bargirls?!?!! If anything it's worse. I think this goes for most areas: Ladyboys try to out-women the women.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Hermano Lobo]

Some quick remarks, not to anyone in particular:

* Ratting out by a real girl saying that so and so is a ladyboy is very low, and if she gets found out (which is likely, especially if the guy freaks and wants to confirm) then it can likely result into trouble between girl and ladyboy.  Then again, it may not even be true, maybe she's actually a real girl and she's lieing to get you to turn the other girl down.....  In any case, it's low.

* Trying to hide her (original) gender by a ladyboy is counterproductive.  Too bad that some don't realize this, but many (if not most) do.  Just ask. 

* Yes, many men specifically go for a 'woman' that also 'has a dick'.  It's a fetish I suppose, similar to guys who go for sm/bondage and loads more things that are 'different'.    Ladyboys would be wise to focus on this group and not bother with trying to deceive the (newbie) guys who will likely freak out at the mere sight of some male anatomy.

* All gays I've talked to are not in the least (sexually) attracted to ladyboys. Makes sense of course.

* Why would a ladyboy having a pee at the toilet at Subway freak anyone out?  Should they just find a wall somewhere?  Take it easy.

* Beware of confusing the ladyboys you see working as hookers in bars with ladyboys in general.    The ones in bars (or worse, on the street) are more likely to be even less mentally stable then even bargirls can be.

* Who was it who said that the attraction lies in the fact that ladyboys don't lay on the same spiel as bargirls?!?!!  If anything it's worse.  I think this goes for most areas: Ladyboys try to out-women the women.

Cheers,

Chanchao

"* Beware of confusing the ladyboys you see working as hookers in bars with ladyboys in general.    The ones in bars (or worse, on the street) are more likely to be even less mentally stable then even bargirls can be."

Chanchao,

I think you have hit the nail on the head so to speak.

I asked a 'gay' what he thought of the very attractive Ladyboys. He turned his nose up and said ,"Yugh!" I think he preferred his toyboy ! Now I know what he prefers when he goes to Thailand? Pretty gay 'toyboys' = YES ! Attractive Ladyboys defintely NO!

Now that begs the question = are men who go with Ladyboys 'gay' in anyway?

From what I have been told they go for Thai girls and Ladyboys - both together if they get the chance !

Where would a non hooker ladyboy that doesn't work in a bar

go to socialise ? RCA ?

[PeaceBlondie]

Same question any Lesbian Go Go bars in BKK or Pattaya?????

I don't know about those cities, but there's a lesbian bar in Chiang Mai, named Femme Fatale. You might access it through www.chiangmaigayguide.com if that's still working.

[Limbo]

No, Mr Limbo I am not asking if there are any special colleges for Ladyboys, only apart from speaking English do some follow interests? Like the one who had an Objets D'Art stall run with college friends in Jatujak? Or, 'seriously' into films or anything else other than just bars and sex?

The few I have spoken to seem easily bright enough to do other things but I did not ask at the time.

Cheers,

Hermano Lobo

I am just a dull hetero-sexual with a lesbian sister, so with other words an average person.

I have been and still are active in the cultural sector. Both in my former home-countries and in Thailand I notice an over-representation of non-hetero-sexuals in the world of art.

It could be because persons who grew up with a non-majority-like sexual appetite had to ask him or herself questions which members of the majority wouldn't even know to formulate.

Is it, because people with other sexual preferences couldn't take the sexual part of social life for granted in the same way as hetero's?

Does the socio-psychological aspect of homosexuality make people more reflective?

Genetically I wouldn't know if homosexuals are more intelligent than heterosexuals. I don't see a reason to think they are.

What could be the case, is this:

Homosexuals, including ladyboys, use their intellectual capacity in a more active and productive way, which comes close to the definition of creativity.

I also think that they develop more than average social skills. Everybody is acting, but the extra dimension of mixing roles and role-expectations is an art.

How dull would the world be if there weren't people like ladyboys.

[chanchao]

Look what I dug up on this topic... It's from early 1999, but I think answers the original question quite well. It even starts with posing the question that's almost completely identical to the question ("Ladyboys, what's the interest?") posted yesterday. I edited out some of the more graphic descriptions as I feel it's not appropriate for this forum, and would likely turn some people off to read through to the final paragraphs. Note that it was written on a forum/list that was LOTS more macho-homophobic than even this forum is today.

---

Subject: RE katoeys: some musings.

From: "Bilbo"

Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:54:12 PST

Katoeys? What is the attraction? Lots...

Personally, I find the whole thing both fascinating, amusing, and

occasionally pathetic....once in a while, tragic. In all, it's a

completely new dimension for me after 40 years of being totally

"straight"...totally married and totally happy with this.

I have never had any aversion to gay men or women...I emerged via an

Arts education and got to know many guys who were actors, painters or

dancers. Mostly, you would never know they were gay. Very few were

effeminate or had camp affectations. I have never felt threatened by

them or been awkward in the presence of anyone whose sexual orientation

differed from mine (on the other hand...I have never knowingly been in

the company of a paeodophile...I would NOT be happy with this one...)

I say this to stress that I am comfortable with my own sexuality. I have

experimented with men at one period a long time ago, and, like the

previous poster, got nothing from it. Like him, I didn't like the hair and the

bristles...I also like my partners soft and cuddly!

Katoeys? Well, I guess it's the whole package. ....the image, the effort

in maintaining it...if someone has CHOSEN to be "female", then they are

going to be the BEST female they can. Sure...this is sometimes over-the-top...

but then I have this choice. To go with 'over the top' or to look at another softer

one...The most convincingly female katoey (and i mean in personality

rather than flamboyancy) was good old Mot (from Bangkok Nights, last

year) I had know her a month (without going with her) before I put 2 and

2 together. Soft, gentle, graceful, humorous, and with a complete lack

of affectation. Qualities that I have rarely found in this combination

in real women...

Plus there is another aspect...a directly sexual one. I really don't

want to have intercourse every time. Sometimes I am content to just fool around

without penetration. Sometimes it's more fun like this...depends

entirely on the situation. Sometimes I am not particularly turned on by

it all and don't get a full erection (my alcohol content is a factor

here!) Katoeys are MUCH more easy about doing all this than most of the

women i have been with. Most women have clear expectations about the

process....it's very much a linear progression from foreplay to

intercourse. Every time for me now at the age of 48 is quite

different.

I am extremely excited by the visual aspects of sex. I am to some degree

a fetishist in this respect. The skin-tight lycra and leather, the tiny

g-strings, aspects of exhibitionism...all add to what I am hooked into.

The "sweet-little-girl-next-door" image leaves me cold. Not my thing.

I have a friend here called Marcos. I have another friend here by the

name of . Both appear to be men. Marcos is a tough looking German. Deng

is a soft-looking Thai. The last time that I saw Deng, he had tits and a

dress. This time I didn't recognize the gentle man in the tie. He has

had two wives, and three children. Now, he seems to be gay, in the sense

that he prefers men, although he likes women also. One thing he says

stays in my mind. "I was in Bangkok at the time I didn't know who I

was."

" I DIDN'T KNOW WHO I WAS."

I wonder how many of us DO.

He was talking about his sexuality.

Another thing he said... " I don't think of myself as a man, or as a

woman, or as a katoey. I am ALL these things. Sometimes one, sometimes

another."

Marcos said that one of his friends had said, that (!) "if I want a

pussy, then I'll go with a woman, not a katoey."

Man, woman, bisexual, straight, gay,... What on EARTH are these

divisions? I don't consider myself gay at all. I am not sexually

attracted to men... I AM sexually attracted to women... Yet I like the

feel of a penis. WHAT does that make ME? (there are NO prizes for

answering that one...)

Let's be a little more specific here. I AM attracted to "men" if they

look like women. I'm not attracted if they looked like men! The more

like ponder on this the more I'm convinced the largest component in all

this is social conditioning. In my head I know I'm uncomfortable with

the idea of sex with a man. If the man looks like a woman, then I can be

relaxed about it. In an objective sense, there is no physical difference

in the process of touching a penis and that of touching a breast. The

difference is in the PERCEPTION of these activities... Psychologically

we all provided with a direction long before sexual maturity is reached.

Western society exclusively produces the "family"... mail and female

stereotypes... In literature, school, religion, Christianity, the media.

It goes further. It even advocates and promotes a certain type...

Particular qualities... as being both desirable, and also the Norm.

However, when you visit a society where it is the norm for sexuality to

be a variable factor, where it is acceptable to have partners of your

own sex, or where it is commonplace for men to dress as, and emulate

women, then definitions become both blurred and arbitrary, and you are

left only with your own sense of what is proper or improper. In other

words WITHOUT SOCIETY TO REINFORCE YOUR ORIENTATION, TO DEFINE IT, your

own hidden inclinations become more pronounced.

I guess that's why I want my "women" to look like "women"!!

Have fun!

Bilbo

[rainman]

I prefer taco to sausage. Period.