garro Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) What I mean by this question is that I meet people who have been visiting Thailand regularly for twenty years plus and feel that they know everything about the country. I would argue that it is not really possible to know the place until you have lived here day in and day out. Even then, you are never going to really know the place completely. I feel that living in a place is completely different from visiting it regularly. Am I wrong? Edited February 6, 2008 by garro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Reimar Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 What I mean by this question is that I meet people who have been visiting Thailand regularly for twenty years plus and feel that they know everything about the country. I would argue that it is not really possible to know the place until you have lived here day in and day out. Even then, you are never going to really know the place completely. I feel that living in a place is completely different from visiting it regularly. Am I wrong? No, you're right. But even if you living in an foreign country for many years, you'll never like a native of that country, you're a Guest you live long. Special to Countries with so much difference to the Western Countries, not cultural only but different race as well it's much more difficult to even just get an close "feeling" for that Country and mor difficult to really "know" that Country! But ok, that's my personal meaning and I living since '71 in Asia. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 i dont believe you are wrong at all garro. to regularly visit and to actually reside in a place are two different things. i lived in thailand for over 8 years and only feel like i scratched the surface of what life is really like. this is after experiencing many things that 'regular' people dont have the opportunity to do. i immersed myself into the culture and felt that my understanding was pretty good, but i do not even begin to imagine that i know 20% of what really goes on. i have said for many years: the longer i am in thailand, the more i know, and the more i accept. but the less i understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Conversely people who move to a different country often get a much more in depth view of that country than they have of their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torrenova Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Go from Spain to Portugal and you'd fit right in with little acclimatisation but come from Europe to Asia and you'll never be "local" though you could live there years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray08 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 coming here for over 20 years for holidays , is much different than living and working here everday , and living here for along time very different to being a local ,as western culture is so much different , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I've written a novel in which the world's most famous bilingual celebrity, English & Spanish from birth, spends a year hiding in north-eastern Thailand, learns some Thai, etc., but ends the year saying he never felt at home. Five years later he still feels a stranger although the Thais revere him. That's how I still feel after 5 years. Most people who visit regularly, especially as a tourist, are never much more than a tourist or a stranger in most cases, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I think the issue is not how an individual spends time in a country but the personality, temperament and intellect of the individual. While it is clear that a single individual who goes from frequent visits to living in a country would almost certainly get a better understand of the place because of the move. I don’t believe you can extrapolate that to say that Individual ‘A’ has a better understanding than Individual ‘B’, because ‘A’ lives in a country and ‘B’ is only a frequent visitor. I know a guy who has been a regular visitor to Thailand for over twenty years, he’s a real Thai-o-file, speaks remarkably good Thai, is a real culture vulture, travels all over Thailand during his visits and lives and breathes Thai history and culture when not in Thailand. Conversely I know plenty of people who have lived in Farang ghettos in Thailand for a number of years, can’t speak the language and express two dimensional views on Thailand and Thai culture than leave me wondering if they are actually aware they are in Thailand. -- Mind, to put this in perspective, I frequently have people lecturing me on what life is like here in Saudi Arabia, despite they themselves never having set foot in the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.s Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) I've written a novel in which the world's most famous bilingual celebrity, English & Spanish from birth, spends a year hiding in north-eastern Thailand, learns some Thai, etc., but ends the year saying he never felt at home. Five years later he still feels a stranger although the Thais revere him. That's how I still feel after 5 years. Most people who visit regularly, especially as a tourist, are never much more than a tourist or a stranger in most cases, you feel revered? edit: forgot to add that it is different. Edited February 6, 2008 by t.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazeeboy Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 when you come for holidays you stay in hotels and eat in restaurants everyday ,when you live here you cook and stay in your own house and buy from tesco's ,once the rhais realise you are not the rich guy you were on your 2 week holiday ,they lose interest in you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepe' Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 What I mean by this question is that I meet people who have been visiting Thailand regularly for twenty years plus and feel that they know everything about the country. I would argue that it is not really possible to know the place until you have lived here day in and day out. Even then, you are never going to really know the place completely. I feel that living in a place is completely different from visiting it regularly. Am I wrong? ----------------------- No I think you're right as well. I've been visiting almost every year. Then married to Thai for al most eight years. I think just visiting allows one to soak up all the good things while not having to deal with the bad things. Really visiting regularly and not having to live in LOS luxory. It's like being able to skim the sweet cream off of a fresh warm pail of milk right from the cow. Yum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinrada Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Been living down here in the Smoke in Angrit Land for the best part of 40 years and apart from a few jolly years in the f.f.f. fun work places like Africa ,Asia,S America,Eastern Europe etc....have enjoyed it ...ie Limely Land ...BUT will obviously NEVER ever be one of 'em and.... good heavens would one wish to be...same colour but that about it.... ...vivre la Diff..... SO Yes same same and agree...you will always be basically..from where you come from.....but does it really matter? ...as the old saying goes you cant choose your family..........but you Can pick your friends.........Sabai..Sabi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjock Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I have been coming to Thailand for over 15 years and would be the first to acknowledge that I have only scratched the surface of Thailand compared to most farangs that live there full time. Having spent quite a bit of time there I think I know quite a bit about life in the farang areas and have some limited knowledge of the problems encountered by expats living as a stanger in a strange land however do not have any real experience as to what it is really like to be living like a Thai. My wife is Thai and she has helped me understand much about what life is really like living full time in Thailand but that is as far as I want to go as I prefer to enjoy the best of what Thailand has to offer and leave the rest to those that enjoy the problems encountered when living the total Thai experience . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiakaha Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 What I mean by this question is that I meet people who have been visiting Thailand regularly for twenty years plus and feel that they know everything about the country. I would argue that it is not really possible to know the place until you have lived here day in and day out. Even then, you are never going to really know the place completely. I feel that living in a place is completely different from visiting it regularly. Am I wrong? No. There are things you experience & have to deal with on a day to day basis living here and working here that a visitor would never have to deal with. Your day to day activities and priorities as a resident vs a visitor are generally markedly different. In general the thai language ability(reading, writing,speaking) of someone living here everyday will be far superior and accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MengWan Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 What I mean by this question is that I meet people who have been visiting Thailand regularly for twenty years plus and feel that they know everything about the country. I would argue that it is not really possible to know the place until you have lived here day in and day out. Even then, you are never going to really know the place completely. I feel that living in a place is completely different from visiting it regularly. Am I wrong? Very good question ! I beleive that if the individual is "not entirely formed", i.e. young or very young, he/she can assimilate another culture totally, but if he/she is older, it is much more difficult, perhaps impossible. Same for the language, the young people easily learn languages, older people badly (in general). Married (in France) with a thai woman, I went to Thailand each year on holidays during 20 years and now I am settled here for 7 years now on. I confirm it is not the same, first because the "tourist" (that I never was, I used to stay with my wife's family) is not harassed by the authorities like the "permanent stayer" is ! For the rest, I do not see any difference, I know that, even if I stay 1000 years here, I will always be a "falang" (word which often -if not always- goes with "dirty" "stupid" and so on ...). This is to say that "assimilation" is a two-way process, that, even if the one that's moved performs perfectly, he/she must be seen with the eyes of acceptance ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiakaha Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I will always be a "falang" (word which often -if not always- goes with "dirty" "stupid" and so on ...). I think you are confusing "falang" with "falangset" sorry, couldn't resist, I'm sure the Pommies in the audience will appreciate the English channel humor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepe' Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 What I mean by this question is that I meet people who have been visiting Thailand regularly for twenty years plus and feel that they know everything about the country. I would argue that it is not really possible to know the place until you have lived here day in and day out. Even then, you are never going to really know the place completely. I feel that living in a place is completely different from visiting it regularly. Am I wrong? Very good question ! I beleive that if the individual is "not entirely formed", i.e. young or very young, he/she can assimilate another culture totally, but if he/she is older, it is much more difficult, perhaps impossible. Same for the language, the young people easily learn languages, older people badly (in general). Married (in France) with a thai woman, I went to Thailand each year on holidays during 20 years and now I am settled here for 7 years now on. I confirm it is not the same, first because the "tourist" (that I never was, I used to stay with my wife's family) is not harassed by the authorities like the "permanent stayer" is ! For the rest, I do not see any difference, I know that, even if I stay 1000 years here, I will always be a "falang" (word which often -if not always- goes with "dirty" "stupid" and so on ...). This is to say that "assimilation" is a two-way process, that, even if the one that's moved performs perfectly, he/she must be seen with the eyes of acceptance ... -------------------------- I agree. Always felt quite insulated from the common "permanent stayer" by my ex wifes family. They being wealthy and having heavy police connections really changed the ball game too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Unequivocally no. Thailand is a great place to visit. Living here is a bit of chore (as is living most anywhere in general). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garro Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 I think that raising a family in Thialand definitely gives a different outlook on the place. I will never understand Thailand like a Thai nor view it again with the freshness of a tourist. Is that a bad thing? Probably not. As a tourist here I could only see the good. Now I just try and focus on the good and do my best to ignore the bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I've written a novel in which the world's most famous bilingual celebrity, English & Spanish from birth, spends a year hiding in north-eastern Thailand, learns some Thai, etc., but ends the year saying he never felt at home. Five years later he still feels a stranger although the Thais revere him. That's how I still feel after 5 years. Most people who visit regularly, especially as a tourist, are never much more than a tourist or a stranger in most cases, you feel revered? edit: forgot to add that it is different. Nah, I don't feel revered. I meant that the farang in the novel still didn't feel completely at home after one year even though most of the Thais did revere him. But after five more years, he is more 'at home' here, even though it is never quite 'home.'Thais almost never revere a farang; that's why it's fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jing jing Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I think that raising a family in Thialand definitely gives a different outlook on the place. [snip] Indeed. Living upcountry with wife, kids, and extended family is a bit different than living in a tourist area and hanging out watching footie at the pub. Seeing how Thais raise kids, up close and personal, certainly gives insight into the whys and wherefores of Thai culture. Also, living in a place where almost nobody speaks any English obviously forces an expat to learn more of the language and local customs. Of course, as GH has suggested, even upcountry there are those who will find the one pub within an hours drive from their dwelling and spend all day drinking with their mates, much as they may do back home, thus avoiding any meaningful contact with the locals and engendering a feeling that Thais are ignorant, backwards, impossible to understand, and generally inferior to themselves. The fact is that living anywhere in the world full-time for an extended period of time is different than visiting that place regularly, so Thailand is not unique in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstumbo Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) --------------------------I agree. Always felt quite insulated from the common "permanent stayer" by my ex wifes family. They being wealthy and having heavy police connections really changed the ball game too... I assume those are the reasons you are back in the states instead of still in Thailand? Edited February 7, 2008 by jstumbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepe' Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 --------------------------I agree. Always felt quite insulated from the common "permanent stayer" by my ex wifes family. They being wealthy and having heavy police connections really changed the ball game too... I assume those are the reasons you are back in the states instead of still in Thailand? --------------------------- Nah. We were planning to retire in LOS a couple of years ago but got divorced instead. No dodging the karmic bullet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMChris Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Im still going back and forth to the USA and yes evry time I go back to Thailnad I see or do something that I would never do in the STATES. Like going to a Thai wedding, or a Thai funeral for 3 days or getting a drivers Lic, or cock fight or going to the hospital. These are things that you do in every day life here in Issan. I feel lucky in most cases that I was able to experience these things. One day I will call Thailand home. If you have not been up country then I think you would in my opinion, you would miss the real Thailand and it's people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepe' Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 My longest stay was three months. Again I find visiting is kind of like being able to scoop up handfuls of pearls without having to wrestle with the oysters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardog Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Being a permanent tourist is always a lot of fun all the time. when you reside in the country is when you get a more real picture of what the countries really about. Along with all the problems you see day to day one would miss being a tourist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chownah Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) I've written a novel in which the world's most famous bilingual celebrity, English & Spanish from birth, spends a year hiding in north-eastern Thailand, learns some Thai, etc., but ends the year saying he never felt at home. Five years later he still feels a stranger although the Thais revere him. That's how I still feel after 5 years. Most people who visit regularly, especially as a tourist, are never much more than a tourist or a stranger in most cases, you feel revered? edit: forgot to add that it is different. Nah, I don't feel revered. I meant that the farang in the novel still didn't feel completely at home after one year even though most of the Thais did revere him. But after five more years, he is more 'at home' here, even though it is never quite 'home.'Thais almost never revere a farang; that's why it's fiction. The children in my village revere me because I pick them up and spin them around until they are dizzy....and this is definitely not fiction.....although sometimes late at night I can see how the edges of the rice fields are only held in place with scotch tape and thumbtacks in some places and the blank cosmic backround can be glimpsed in the gaps. Chownah Edited February 8, 2008 by chownah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkPopularity Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 well, don't forget all angles, even if I totally don't fit into the picture, I'm also part of the country, as guest or not doesn't matter, I'm as much part of the equation then locals, especially in places like Phuket/Pattaya/Hua Hin etc. the way I live, the way I work and the way I see things has also become part of the Thai reality ... so, my perception of Thailand may differ from the perception of a regular Thai, but is nevertheless valuable, don't neglect that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garro Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 What I mean by this question is that I meet people who have been visiting Thailand regularly for twenty years plus and feel that they know everything about the country. I would argue that it is not really possible to know the place until you have lived here day in and day out. Even then, you are never going to really know the place completely. I feel that living in a place is completely different from visiting it regularly. Am I wrong? whats your point? when you live here you spend many days doing the exact same thing so does it really matter? I wasn't actually making a point. I was asking a question. It was just an innocent query, but I suppose it doesn't really matter. Feel free to ignore me next time How do you know I do the exact same thing every day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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