Am I Immoral Because I Have A Girlfriend?

[Pepe']

At one time I was married to a Thai woman. Who, well long story short she cheated then we divorced.

I love woman and dated around for a little while but I am really a one woman man.

I'm in a relationship with a beautiful Fillapina for about eight months.

She wants to marry,I don't.

Don't think I can trust again.

Is it bad karma to have sex without being married?

[garro]

It would be my understanding that the Buddha's advice regarding sexual misconduct, among lay people, is most concerned with harm. Is having sex causing you or her harm? If you were misleading her with promises of marriage in order to get into her nickers, with no intention of getting married, then that would be sexual misconduct.

[Pepe']

It would be my understanding that the Buddha's advice regarding sexual misconduct, among lay people, is most concerned with harm. Is having sex causing you or her harm? If you were misleading her with promises of marriage in order to get into her nickers, with no intention of getting married, then that would be sexual misconduct.

------------------------

Actually been 100% upfront since day one about not wanting to marry.

I've lived in ashrams before as a young guy and sometimes spend the weekend here in San Diego with the Thai monks.

I fantasize that one day I want to live with the monks, really.

I actually like that like that thought a lot but that same old problem "rises up."

Bottom line is I never did very well with celebacy.

So this is my quandry.

Both Christianty and even vedanta/Hinduism says sex outside of marriage sends you to hel_l.

Just wondered what Buddha says.

The monks here tell me it is time to stay alone...

[Brucenkhamen]

It would be my understanding that the Buddha's advice regarding sexual misconduct, among lay people, is most concerned with harm. Is having sex causing you or her harm? If you were misleading her with promises of marriage in order to get into her nickers, with no intention of getting married, then that would be sexual misconduct.

If she's someone who needs to be married, and lets face it most asian women are, then this question is never going to go away and eventually she's going to end up burnt having wasted a large portion of her life, so bad kamma for you. If she's more like a farang women and sees de facto as an option then I see no problem.

[chownah]

I have never read an account of the Buddha's teachings on sexual misconduct where marriage is even mentiioned much less required.

Chownah

[jumnien]

Was the Buddha legally divorced or did he just abandon his family?

[garro]

The Buddha never left his family.

That was Siddhartha Gautama.

The Buddha never married

[thaiclan]

Excuse my ignorance and please don't shout me down but I though that Siddharta WAS the Buddha as we know today and he left his family.... However I have only read 1 book on this (Buddha by Deepak Chopra) so further enlightenment would help.

[garro]

Excuse my ignorance and please don't shout me down but I though that Siddharta WAS the Buddha as we know today and he left his family.... However I have only read 1 book on this (Buddha by Deepak Chopra) so further enlightenment would help.

Buddha means awakened one.

Siddharta became the Buddha after he became awakened.

This is what I mean when I say that the Buddha never left his family.

[Austhaied]

Intention is karma, so if your intentions are good then so to will your karma be.

Unless it happens to affect others that is..That would change the karmic situation..

A piece of paper or someones dogmatic view on marriage should not affect natures law surely..

[britmaveric]

Enjoy yourself mate - if u dont want to marry then she will have to live with it or move on. Logic says one who marries who doesnt want to be married - the act itself well is pointless even if one party wants it.

[Pepe']

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

It's been helpful...

[IMChris]

Excuse my ignorance and please don't shout me down but I though that Siddharta WAS the Buddha as we know today and he left his family.... However I have only read 1 book Buddha by Deepak Chopra on this so further enlightenment would help.

You have read only 1 book on Buddhiam and you want to live with the MONKS. Hmmmmm....... Me thinks you have a long path ahead of you before that happens. When you are ready, every good male buddist goes and lives with the monks with hair cut and all for 3 mos of training. When school is out you will see lots of male kids living at temple with the monks getting training. If you are comming to Thailand then you would study the Theravada Buddist tradition. There are 3 main types of buddhism. I will let you find you own path to what ever type of tradition you chose. I think you would love the story of our frist Buddha SIDDHARTHA and then go from there. Best wishes.............

Edited February 7, 2008 by IMChris

[Pepe']

Excuse my ignorance and please don't shout me down but I though that Siddharta WAS the Buddha as we know today and he left his family.... However I have only read 1 book Buddha by Deepak Chopra on this so further enlightenment would help.

You have read only 1 book on Buddhiam and you want to live with the MONKS. Hmmmmm....... Me thinks you have a long path ahead of you before that happens. When you are ready, every good male buddist goes and lives with the monks with hair cut and all for 3 mos of training. When school is out you will see lots of male kids living at temple with the monks getting training. If you are comming to Thailand then you would study the Theravada Buddist tradition. There are 3 main types of buddhism. I will let you find you own path to what ever type of tradition you chose. I think you would love the story of our frist Buddha SIDDHARTHA and then go from there. Best wishes.............

---------------------------

I was going to say this before but glad I waited.

I worked many years ago triaging patients at Deepak Chopra's clinic here in La Jolla, CA.

I didn't last very long and will try to be diplomatic. To say he is a sleasy shiseter would be putting it mildly.

Some of his staff are still patients of mine after all these years.

I have heard the book was not bad but again he doesn't write any of them.

Last count his team of "ghost writers" was at about 8.

He has left a "trail of bodies" here in San Diego and else where. It's hard to believe people still line up and

pay through the nose to swallow his pablum.

However, "There is one born every minute." -- PT Barnum

If you'd like a good read try Hand Book for Mankind by Bhuddassa Biku. It's actually available on line...

[garro]

I was surprised to read the Chopra book and find it thought-provoking and well written.

I am sorry to hear that he is viewed as a bit of a con-man.

Mind you, people do change and even an idiot can speak wise words.

Or perhaps he does have very insightful ghost-writers.

[seonai]

In my interpretation the Buddha did leave his family. Becoming enlightened did not make him any less a man. He was a real man, a human who lived and breathed on this earth. His 'family' were more or less forced upon him by the trappings of his palace lifestyle... and he left because he had to ... this is why monks are celibate ...

[Pepe']

I was surprised to read the Chopra book and find it thought-provoking and well written.

I am sorry to hear that he is viewed as a bit of a con-man.

Mind you, people do change and even an idiot can speak wise words.

Or perhaps he does have very insightful ghost-writers.

------------------

Insightful indeed. I've already said perhaps too much.

It does all come out in the wash...

[IMChris]

In my interpretation the Buddha did leave his family. Becoming enlightened did not make him any less a man. He was a real man, a human who lived and breathed on this earth. His 'family' were more or less forced upon him by the trappings of his palace lifestyle... and he left because he had to ... this is why monks are celibate ...

He was a Prince Siddhartha , he was married, had kids, he was not a Buddha at that time. He left everything behind to seek the path. It was not untill he was 35 untill he obtained enlightenment.

I think you have the misconception that there was only 1 Buddha. It's only a word, Buddha means The Enlightened One. It also depends on what Buddist tradition you are talking about. Also google " Maitreya " the future Buddha.

[Pepe']

In my interpretation the Buddha did leave his family. Becoming enlightened did not make him any less a man. He was a real man, a human who lived and breathed on this earth. His 'family' were more or less forced upon him by the trappings of his palace lifestyle... and he left because he had to ... this is why monks are celibate ...

He was a Prince Siddhartha , he was married, had kids, he was not a Buddha at that time. He left everything behind to seek the path. It was not untill he was 35 untill he obtained enlightenment.

I think you have the misconception that there was only 1 Buddha. It's only a word, Buddha means The Enlightened One. It also depends on what Buddist tradition you are talking about. Also google " Maitreya " the future Buddha.

------------------------

Very nicely put...

[vinny]

Listen also to Ajahn Brahmavamso's Buddhism and Sexuality.

Edited February 10, 2008 by vinny

[fire and ice]

Buddha means awakened one.

Siddharta became the Buddha after he became awakened.

This is what I mean when I say that the Buddha never left his family.

Presumably it was a huge challenge and a big fearful step for "Siddhartha" to leave his family and pursue his (potential) "awakening".

No one can achieve an 'enlightened state' without abandoning one's fixations (including love); I gather that for Siddhartha that leaving his family was the painful catalyst (or bitter pill) he had to swallow in order to have a chance at enlightenment.

He may well have never reached this stage of consciousness had he not taken the leap of faith by leaving his family.

However this was HIS big step into facing HIS fears an appropriate for HIM to progress along HIS path to enlightenment.

We all have to face our deepest fears if we are to attain enlightenment.

For many of us, resisting sexual urges may be on our true path to enlightenment and resisting such feelings might be a step forward.

For many of us, it my not be a big deal either way, ie: sexual issues may not make much difference to one's own particular path to enlightenment.

However, for SOME of us, delving into sexual pleasure, unashamedly seeking lust; even debauchery; might actually be what we need to do in order to progress on our individual path to enlightenment.

It all depends upon each person's individual situation and present state of being.

However a rule of thumb is that if it is a challenge (ie: there is some fear or resistance), then you need to face up to it. For example if one was utterly inflamed by all sexual conduct, then such a person cannot attain enlightenment without surrendering to their own sexual desires and accepting them as they are.

Vice-versa: if one is obsessed with sex(and has a lot of it), then such a person needs to reverse this obsession in order to pursue the path towards enlightenment.

[IMA_FARANG]

At one time I was married to a Thai woman. Who, well long story short she cheated then we divorced.

I love woman and dated around for a little while but I am really a one woman man.

I'm in a relationship with a beautiful Fillapina for about eight months.

She wants to marry,I don't.

Don't think I can trust again.

Is it bad karma to have sex without being married?

I don't think there is a geat Karmic scoreboard somewhere where you are being scored.....point for you.....point against you.....like in a tennis match.

But what concerns me more is that I keep hearing you say "I" for every question you ask.

How will this thing affect me.

She wants this thing but I don't want this thing.

It would be better to approach your actions not how they would affect you but on how they would affect the others in your life.

I would advise you to think not of what any consequences of your actions are to you, but first consider how your actions would affect others.

That would seem to be of more true relevance to your life, wouldn't it?

[Pepe']

Buddha means awakened one.

Siddharta became the Buddha after he became awakened.

This is what I mean when I say that the Buddha never left his family.

Presumably it was a huge challenge and a big fearful step for "Siddhartha" to leave his family and pursue his (potential) "awakening".

No one can achieve an 'enlightened state' without abandoning one's fixations (including love); I gather that for Siddhartha that leaving his family was the painful catalyst (or bitter pill) he had to swallow in order to have a chance at enlightenment.

He may well have never reached this stage of consciousness had he not taken the leap of faith by leaving his family.

However this was HIS big step into facing HIS fears an appropriate for HIM to progress along HIS path to enlightenment.

We all have to face our deepest fears if we are to attain enlightenment.

For many of us, resisting sexual urges may be on our true path to enlightenment and resisting such feelings might be a step forward.

For many of us, it my not be a big deal either way, ie: sexual issues may not make much difference to one's own particular path to enlightenment.

However, for SOME of us, delving into sexual pleasure, unashamedly seeking lust; even debauchery; might actually be what we need to do in order to progress on our individual path to enlightenment.

It all depends upon each person's individual situation and present state of being.

However a rule of thumb is that if it is a challenge (ie: there is some fear or resistance), then you need to face up to it. For example if one was utterly inflamed by all sexual conduct, then such a person cannot attain enlightenment without surrendering to their own sexual desires and accepting them as they are.

Vice-versa: if one is obsessed with sex(and has a lot of it), then such a person needs to reverse this obsession in order to pursue the path towards enlightenment.

--------------------------

Very on point.

Thanks for taking the time.

Yes sex is an issue for me.

Most of you are confirming what I already know but obviously need to have the message hammered a little harder into my hard head...

[bankei]

Marriage is just a legal ritual, nothing to do with morality.

[Pepe']

Marriage is just a legal ritual, nothing to do with morality.

--------------------

I must admit I thought morality/fidelity was a corner stone of marriage...

[jamesc2000]

well long story short she cheated then we divorced.

I'm in a relationship with a beautiful Fillapina for about eight months.

Don't think I can trust again.

I guess the issue here is trust.

The beautiful lady you are now dating is not the lady that cheated on you.

Now the lady you are dating may or may not cheat on you but thats not the issue.

If you see every lady you date as the same as the cheating lady then its not fair to the lady.

If you cannot let go of the victimisation of being cheated then you are not being fair to yourself!

You got cheated by one lady so you got cheated once, keep thinking about how you were cheated over and over again in your mind and you get cheated over and over again!

Maybe its better to forget the not so happy past so that you can have a happier future?

You got cheated by someone else in the past (beyond your control), best that you don't cheat yourself of a happy future (fully in your control).

Best of luck Pepe!

Edited February 12, 2008 by jamesc2000

[Pepe']

well long story short she cheated then we divorced.

I'm in a relationship with a beautiful Fillapina for about eight months.

Don't think I can trust again.

I guess the issue here is trust.

The beautiful lady you are now dating is not the lady that cheated on you.

Now the lady you are dating may or may not cheat on you but thats not the issue.

If you see every lady you date as the same as the cheating lady then its not fair to the lady.

If you cannot let go of the victimisation of being cheated then you are not being fair to yourself!

You got cheated by one lady so you got cheated once, keep thinking about how you were cheated over and over again in your mind and you get cheated over and over again!

Maybe its better to forget the not so happy past so that you can have a happier future?

You got cheated by someone else in the past (beyond your control), best that you don't cheat yourself of a happy future (fully in your control).

Best of luck Pepe!

-------------------------

Your 100% correct.

However right now, for me, easier said than done...

[jamesc2000]

well long story short she cheated then we divorced.

I'm in a relationship with a beautiful Fillapina for about eight months.

Don't think I can trust again.

I guess the issue here is trust.

The beautiful lady you are now dating is not the lady that cheated on you.

Now the lady you are dating may or may not cheat on you but thats not the issue.

If you see every lady you date as the same as the cheating lady then its not fair to the lady.

If you cannot let go of the victimisation of being cheated then you are not being fair to yourself!

You got cheated by one lady so you got cheated once, keep thinking about how you were cheated over and over again in your mind and you get cheated over and over again!

Maybe its better to forget the not so happy past so that you can have a happier future?

You got cheated by someone else in the past (beyond your control), best that you don't cheat yourself of a happy future (fully in your control).

Best of luck Pepe!

-------------------------

Your 100% correct.

However right now, for me, easier said than done...

Just try the science of Buddhism! It works everytime!

Anyway don't think too much about it.

Here is a nice story from Ajahn Brahm.

There were 2 men who farm chickens. The first man wasn't a very good farmer and everyday he when to the chicken shed and collected all the chicken manure in his basket and took it home to his kitchen.

That manure just stanked up the whole house up and made a big pile of mess in his home.

The second man was a better farmer and collected the eggs with his basket from the shed. His wife cooked the eggs and fed the whole family.

The basket is your mind and the eggs are your memories. So be careful what memories you wish to collect in your basket. Good memories or bad memories!

Why waste energy collecting the manure? Just collect the eggs!

Hope that helps!

[Pepe']

well long story short she cheated then we divorced.

I'm in a relationship with a beautiful Fillapina for about eight months.

Don't think I can trust again.

I guess the issue here is trust.

The beautiful lady you are now dating is not the lady that cheated on you.

Now the lady you are dating may or may not cheat on you but thats not the issue.

If you see every lady you date as the same as the cheating lady then its not fair to the lady.

If you cannot let go of the victimisation of being cheated then you are not being fair to yourself!

You got cheated by one lady so you got cheated once, keep thinking about how you were cheated over and over again in your mind and you get cheated over and over again!

Maybe its better to forget the not so happy past so that you can have a happier future?

You got cheated by someone else in the past (beyond your control), best that you don't cheat yourself of a happy future (fully in your control).

Best of luck Pepe!

-------------------------

Your 100% correct.

However right now, for me, easier said than done...

Just try the science of Buddhism! It works everytime!

Anyway don't think too much about it.

Here is a nice story from Ajahn Brahm.

There were 2 men who farm chickens. The first man wasn't a very good farmer and everyday he when to the chicken shed and collected all the chicken manure in his basket and took it home to his kitchen.

That manure just stanked up the whole house up and made a big pile of mess in his home.

The second man was a better farmer and collected the eggs with his basket from the shed. His wife cooked the eggs and fed the whole family.

The basket is your mind and the eggs are your memories. So be careful what memories you wish to collect in your basket. Good memories or bad memories!

Why waste energy collecting the manure? Just collect the eggs!

Hope that helps!

----------------------

Thanks James it's a work in progress...

[IMChris]

well long story short she cheated then we divorced.

I'm in a relationship with a beautiful Fillapina for about eight months.

Don't think I can trust again.

I guess the issue here is trust.

The beautiful lady you are now dating is not the lady that cheated on you.

Now the lady you are dating may or may not cheat on you but thats not the issue.

If you see every lady you date as the same as the cheating lady then its not fair to the lady.

If you cannot let go of the victimisation of being cheated then you are not being fair to yourself!

You got cheated by one lady so you got cheated once, keep thinking about how you were cheated over and over again in your mind and you get cheated over and over again!

Maybe its better to forget the not so happy past so that you can have a happier future?

You got cheated by someone else in the past (beyond your control), best that you don't cheat yourself of a happy future (fully in your control).

Best of luck Pepe!

-------------------------

Your 100% correct.

However right now, for me, easier said than done...

Just try the science of Buddhism! It works everytime!

Anyway don't think too much about it.

Here is a nice story from Ajahn Brahm.

There were 2 men who farm chickens. The first man wasn't a very good farmer and everyday he when to the chicken shed and collected all the chicken manure in his basket and took it home to his kitchen.

That manure just stanked up the whole house up and made a big pile of mess in his home.

The second man was a better farmer and collected the eggs with his basket from the shed. His wife cooked the eggs and fed the whole family.

The basket is your mind and the eggs are your memories. So be careful what memories you wish to collect in your basket. Good memories or bad memories!

Why waste energy collecting the manure? Just collect the eggs!

Hope that helps!

GOOD ONE thanks...............