Should Tefl Courses Be Rougher Than Paratrooper Courses, Ph.d. In Physics, Etc?

[PeaceBlondie]

Occasionally you read horror stories about the world's most difficult four week TEFL training course. Trainees attended class ten hours per day, then studied for five more hours, had impossible demands put upon them by sadistic, pompous instructors who had no mercy, etc. They were required to memorize grammar points they would not need in real EFL teaching (or which they could pick up later); they learned pedagogical theory suitable for postgraduate study but not used in real life; they were ridiculed by their instructors; then they were thrown to the wolves among students who had a twenty word vocab, etc. Even some experienced teachers broke down in tears.

Meanwhile, many TEFL students are new to the country, having medical problems, culture shock, etc. They may be in a tourist spot and want to relax in the evenings, while also doing a couple hours of homework.

I've attended and witnessed reasonable courses in which the students spent their 30 hours per week, did their homework and observed teachings, and still had time in evenings or weekends to see the sights.

Teaching EFL is a serious business, but do trainees in TEFL courses have to be treated like military recruits in boot camp?

Please, let's discuss this without mentioning the names of course providers.

[gnode]

Wow, paratrooper training was easier than that. We at least had our evenings free to go out, and no homework!!

I'm not sure why these schools would make it so difficult to get certified, unless they were coming under the gun for poor teaching standards. I'm all for higher standards, but what you describe sounds very extreme. The worst part is I'm sure these students have no recourse to get their money back and attend a different school if they're not happy.

I'm curious, why don't more students just take their TEFL certification courses online? I've seen courses advertised for about 1/8 the cost of a traditional brick and mortar school, and you can study on your own schedule. Aren't these certifications just as valid as the traditional courses?

[PeaceBlondie]

Online courses are available, and our Teaching Forum is sponsored by two schools: SEE (brick and mortar, in Thailand) and ICAL (online).

[Richie1971]

I completed a CELTA at a well known BKK provider and it was one of the most challenging (academically speaking) experiences of my life. Prior to the course I was warned that 4 weeks would be taken out of my life, I scoffed at that intially but it is true. A good course from a reputable supplier should be very challenging especially if it equips you with the tools you need to teach, I don't know anything about online courses or the like but if they're not challenging they're not worth doing.

[mbkudu]

Waah. I want my mommy.

[garro]

I completed a TEFL a few years ago in Ireland.

The course in Thailand, described by peaceblondie and others, seems a lot tougher than the one I completed.

I think TEFL is good preparation for the classroom.

My only criticism of TEFL in Thailand is that it doesn't seem to be enough for the authorities here.

It also seems to becoming less valued if anything.

I think that TEFL providers should make this clearer.

Edited February 10, 2008 by garro

[aussiestyle1983]

To answer the Op's question; No.

Some courses are poorly constructed. Spread the course over a longer time frame because most people who have to cram all that knowledge in a short time frame will most likely forget. Studying 10 hours a day is okay, if thats it. Expecting people to go put in over 12 or so hours a day of study in class and at home combined will only have a negative affect on everything, including remembering what one originally set out to learn. Students should have more options, if they want the qualification quickly, fine, give them the 4 week course, but if the student wants to take their time and go over everything thoroughly, make 6-8 week part time courses available.

[mbkudu]

My only criticism of TEFL in Thailand is that it doesn't seem to be enough for the authorities here.

It also seems to becoming less valued if anything.

I think that TEFL providers should make this clearer.

I agree with this. These courses satisfy none of the requirements to become legal, yet none of them state this fact. They make statements like 'Recognized by the ministry of education' or 'the board of ESOL examinations in England', but none of this means anything here in Thailand. The one I did, however, was honest in telling us that without a degree there was little chance of being legal and obtaining a work permit. There is another company that states(ed) that not having a degree is(was) no problem and that things can always be arranged in Thailand. I don't know if they have since changed that in their literature. These courses help the new teacher, are appreciated by prospective employers, but by no means necessary nor required.

[PeaceBlondie]

All right then, would this argument (not required by Ministry of Education) be a good reason for the most rigorous courses to lighten up, or for students opting for a course that is still quite adequate but not back-breaking?

[gnode]

I think TEFL is good preparation for the classroom.

My only criticism of TEFL in Thailand is that it doesn't seem to be enough for the authorities here.

It also seems to becoming less valued if anything.

I think that TEFL providers should make this clearer.

Does a brick and mortar TEFL course really do anything to prepare you for the classroom? What do you get from these courses that you wouldn't get from a good online course?

Also, from the other responses, it seems that the only other requirement is a 4 year college degree, which I thought was fairly widely known to be needed to be a teacher in Thailand. What is it that TEFL providers don't make clear?

[aussiestyle1983]

I think TEFL is good preparation for the classroom.

My only criticism of TEFL in Thailand is that it doesn't seem to be enough for the authorities here.

It also seems to becoming less valued if anything.

I think that TEFL providers should make this clearer.

Does a brick and mortar TEFL course really do anything to prepare you for the classroom? What do you get from these courses that you wouldn't get from a good online course?

Also, from the other responses, it seems that the only other requirement is a 4 year college degree, which I thought was fairly widely known to be needed to be a teacher in Thailand. What is it that TEFL providers don't make clear?

Many people with degrees can get jobs without TEFLs. TEFL providers and degree holders know this and the TEFL providers need to give some sort of hope to people without degrees. that is why a lot of TEFL providers, especially ones in a persons home country, even in thailand, often say a degree is not needed to get a job, the TEFL will do. This gives people hope and when people finish their course, go to a country like Thailand without their degree, they get rejected. TEFL providers need to clearly state the requirements to teach in each country if they are going to make people believe that their TEFL will be good enough on it's own. TEFL courses are just about making money. Give us your money and we will give you a qualification that you might not be able to use, or, we will fail you and get you money agin when you re-do the course. Do you think the TEFL providers really care? I'd seriously investigate how reputable a TEFL course is and what other qualifications you need to go with it before wasting the big bhats................... But yeah, not all TEFL providers make it clear that you need a degree, a lot of them will say you don't.

Edited February 10, 2008 by aussiestyle1983

[garro]

I think TEFL is good preparation for the classroom.

My only criticism of TEFL in Thailand is that it doesn't seem to be enough for the authorities here.

It also seems to becoming less valued if anything.

I think that TEFL providers should make this clearer.

Does a brick and mortar TEFL course really do anything to prepare you for the classroom? What do you get from these courses that you wouldn't get from a good online course?

Also, from the other responses, it seems that the only other requirement is a 4 year college degree, which I thought was fairly widely known to be needed to be a teacher in Thailand. What is it that TEFL providers don't make clear?

I think that aussie answered your second question. Many of the TEFL providers promise legal work to non-degree holders. A quick search of TEFL advertisement in Thailand will demonstrate this.

The difference between an online course and a classroom-based course is the practical component. I am not aware of how supervised teaching practice can occur online.

[mopenyang]

I think TEFL is good preparation for the classroom.

My only criticism of TEFL in Thailand is that it doesn't seem to be enough for the authorities here.

It also seems to becoming less valued if anything.

I think that TEFL providers should make this clearer.

Does a brick and mortar TEFL course really do anything to prepare you for the classroom? What do you get from these courses that you wouldn't get from a good online course?

Also, from the other responses, it seems that the only other requirement is a 4 year college degree, which I thought was fairly widely known to be needed to be a teacher in Thailand. What is it that TEFL providers don't make clear?

Many people with degrees can get jobs without TEFLs. TEFL providers and degree holders know this and the TEFL providers need to give some sort of hope to people without degrees. that is why a lot of TEFL providers, especially ones in a persons home country, even in thailand, often say a degree is not needed to get a job, the TEFL will do. This gives people hope and when people finish their course, go to a country like Thailand without their degree, they get rejected. TEFL providers need to clearly state the requirements to teach in each country if they are going to make people believe that their TEFL will be good enough on it's own. TEFL courses are just about making money. Give us your money and we will give you a qualification that you might not be able to use, or, we will fail you and get you money agin when you re-do the course. Do you think the TEFL providers really care? I'd seriously investigate how reputable a TEFL course is and what other qualifications you need to go with it before wasting the big bhats................... But yeah, not all TEFL providers make it clear that you need a degree, a lot of them will say you don't.

Yes, money plays a big part in the equation. Desperately wanting to believe what you read in an Internet advertisement is also a significant factor in the equation. TEFL courses desperate for students and students desperate for a job, any job, often makes for a match made in heaven. The growing realization that such a course is not satisfactory to be legally licensed as a teacher in Thailand (in most instances) is putting a big dent in the industry. Unfortunately, too many of the prospective applicants never get beyond the TEFL course's Internet advertisement and sign up for the course based on the self-serving statements in the ad. Some of these graduates, old and new, are now waking up to the realization that 4 weeks, more or less, won't make them a legal teacher (absent a degree) and the MoE doesn't even seem to mention such a certificate in its list of required documents for a TL.

Rather than worrying about how long or difficult such a course should be, I believe more time and effort should be expended on establishing academic standards for admission to such courses. In many cases, the only requirement for admission is payment of the course fee. The credibility of such a course is seriously undermined when some of the students in the classroom are obviously severely "challenged" when it comes to reading or digesting the course material.

[garro]

I think that reputable TEFL courses in Thailand should now only be open to those who meet the requirements for a TL. Otherwise they seem like a bit of a con. Taking people's money and making them work like a demon to finish a course, which isn't enough to fulfill the requirements to work legally, seems wrong to me.

[toptuan]

I took a TEFL course in a program that seemed to be a decent compromise between "boot camp" and "Lazy-ville." The instructors were well-qualified (Ph.D's), classes were small (maximum 12 students), location was convenient (outskirts of Bangkok), and the price was right ($600USD).

It was offered on weekends over an extended period of time so that those of us who work Mon-Fri could attend. Also, it was about 30% on-line work, so good follow-up and preparation materials were available outside of class. The homework load was reasonable. In addition, practical teaching experience was part of the course.

Despite already having my master's degree in education, the course was a great refresher on pedagogy after 30 years from being in the academic classroom. Commuting 500 km. to class every weekend after teaching a full week made it pretty grueling, but it was great for those of us who held down a full-time job at the same time.

[PeaceBlondie]

First, there is that old advertising advice from the Roman Empire: caveat emptor (BUYER BEWARE). Second, non degree holders have been getting jobs with TEFL certificates here (and elsewhere) for many years. Third, nobody (even the MoE or his permanent secretary or the God of TCT) can guarantee that every school in Thailand will obey the law, or even what the law law really really is.

When it is 98% certain what the law is and how it is actually enforced throughout 91% of schools in Thailand, then we should all force the advertisers to say what the law is. Now, there ain't no stinkin' law.

[Thaiboxer]

TEFL courses are beneficial to an extent; I did one and it has certainly helped me. However, they DO NOT prepare you to just waltz into the classroom and conduct top notch lessons as some TEFL providers make you believe. Also, most of what you need to do can be learned in a matter of days, NOT six weeks, four weeks, etc. We all know how money plays a huge role in the system here, so TEFL courses are just one of the hoops most have to jump through to land a decent job. When I first moved here, it seemed as if a TEFL was all one needed to teach legally, then it became unnecessary and one only needed a degree. Now it seems to be shifting back and forth constantly. I doubt there is a law that one needs a TEFL; it's very often just the policy of the school in question and when it comes to languge schools, many offer their own TEFL courses as if to say, "Pay us good money for our course and we'll give you a "great" job at 300 Baht/hr." With the pathetic wages on offer, it would take a long time for the TEFL course to pay off financially.

[mopenyang]

TEFL courses are beneficial to an extent; I did one and it has certainly helped me. However, they DO NOT prepare you to just waltz into the classroom and conduct top notch lessons as some TEFL providers make you believe. Also, most of what you need to do can be learned in a matter of days, NOT six weeks, four weeks, etc. We all know how money plays a huge role in the system here, so TEFL courses are just one of the hoops most have to jump through to land a decent job. When I first moved here, it seemed as if a TEFL was all one needed to teach legally, then it became unnecessary and one only needed a degree. Now it seems to be shifting back and forth constantly. I doubt there is a law that one needs a TEFL; it's very often just the policy of the school in question and when it comes to languge schools, many offer their own TEFL courses as if to say, "Pay us good money for our course and we'll give you a "great" job at 300 Baht/hr." With the pathetic wages on offer, it would take a long time for the TEFL course to pay off financially.

The mystique of a TEFL course being required to qualify as an EFL teacher in Thailand is exactly that, mystique. Thankfully, the mystique is becoming more transparent these days, as more and more people recognize the "for profit" motive at work and the fact that there is no real basis for such a belief other than self-serving pronouncements.

IMHO, such a development is very positive and long overdue.

Edited February 11, 2008 by mopenyang

[KhaoNiaw]

I did a CELTA in London in 1990 and one of the other participants said the only time she'd learned so much in such a short space of time was when she had a baby.

Four weeks to be able to go into a classroom - it needs to be taxing. I don't know about now, but certainly back then, a newly-qualified CELTA employee was considered ready for the classroom under supervision and continued guidance. You obviously don't get too much of that in Thailand.

It's worth remembering that the 'A' in CELTA stands for 'Adults'. I have never felt qualified to teach children and have only done so rarely. Some people seem to have the 'knack', but I think it really needs much more thorough teacher training and better understanding of child L2 language acquisition to be a successful children's teacher.

The other problem with a four-week course is that you are fed the teaching methodology and ideology of the course provider. It gets drummed into you that this is the way a successful class must be run. This can give something of a superiority complex and the conviction that you are doing things the 'right way' and anyone doing things another way is 'wrong'.

[Loaded]

The mystique of a TEFL course being required to qualify as an EFL teacher in Thailand is exactly that, mystique. Thankfully, the mystique is becoming more transparent these days, as more and more people recognize the "for profit" motive at work and the fact that there is no real basis for such a belief other than self-serving pronouncements.

IMHO, such a development is very positive and long overdue.

A degree is necessary to obtain a wp and some schools will employ teachers who just have a degree. However, if you look at jobs posted by schools on Ajarn and other sites, you'll see most require a TEFL as well. A TEFL isn't a BEd nor a PGCE but it does give the basics needed to step into a classroom and schools know this. Imagine stepping into the classroom without any knowledge of methodology, discipline, grammar...

Nearly every language school in Chiang Mai employs teachers on a part-time basis and they don't care whether a teacher has a degree, TEFL or a collection of Cliff Richard records. However, a teacher without a degree but with TEFL and a long visa will find regular paid work here. That suits people who are TEFLing for a few months or a couple of years but if you want to make a career out of TEFLing and have future long-term security, a degree is essential.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks to Khao Niaw for getting the discussion back on track, even if some of us are naming the course we took. I cannot imagine that a two week residential course can cover enough material to be considered worthwhile, unless it is just a week to teach experienced folks in the field how to maintain oxygen equipment or space suits. I spent four years in the military (without any degree), as a technical instructor. Later, I got a degree (BA) to teach religious education. On my own, I taught ESL part time to adults and children for a while. I taught some at the IRS. But when I arrived in Thailand to teach EFL, I knew I was not prepared to teach adults and children. I took a four week, 120+6 residential class that gave us some time to see the sights, and nobody had a nervous breakdown. That course prepared me well enough for my jobs in Thailand, though 4 weeks cannot train you as much as 50 weeks.

Does a four week course need to make you memorize the IPA phonemes? I doubt it. Does it need to assign an additional 120 hours of homework in 4 weeks? I doubt it. Do the instructors need to reduce their trainees to snivelling idiots? No. Can the average farang just arrive at Suvanabhumi and start teaching kiddies and grownups with no training? Surely not. OTOH, a course in Thai culture has very limited value, and for most farang teachers in their first two years, a B.Ed., a PGCE, M.Ed. or other post-BA qualifications would be overkill for 85% of the starting jobs in Thailand.

[Issangeorge]

I took a TEFL on-line and found that I spent a lot of hours doing it. It was suppose to be a 100 hour course but I know I spent 120 plus hours. It was very good for me for I graduated over 35 years ago, although about 25 years ago I did a night school Business studies course. I had long forgotten the grammar points in English so the TEFL course was good for that, but at the two jobs I have had since taking the course I have not had to teach grammar (the Thai teachers do that), so the grammar aspect of the course really hasn't helped me. What I wish the course had taught me was how to properly test for and access a persons language ability. What level are they at and what level should they be at. The course really didn't cover this. Just as a sideline what is this requirement for a four year BA all about. When I went to school you either received an Honours BA or a BA. Nowhere on the degree is a # of years written on it, so how do the Thais know if it took 3 or 4 years to obtain? Issangeorge

[PeaceBlondie]

Issangeorge, the Thais don't care how many years it took to get a BA, just that you got a BA or a BSc.

[mopenyang]

Transcripts would show the length of the program leading to the BA or BS.

Unfortunately, some places (including nations) were not issuing transcripts way back when and this has been and continues to be a problem for some people trying to work their way through the process (and not just in Thailand).

At the same time, I don't think I'd be too concerned about whether I had a 3 or 4 year BA or BS. I'd be more concerned with just getting a legitimate BA or BS regardless of the length of the program.

[aussiestyle1983]

My BA will only be 3 years, as that is the norm in Aus. it does concern me, because I remember hearing that you need a 4 year Bachelors degree to teach in Thailand. I wonder what they would think of a 3 year one? anyway, rather than doing a 4th honours year which doesn't mean anything to me, i'd rather start straight away on a grad cert, grad dip or an MEd. But if I can only manage a 3 years bachelor, I will be a bit concerned, even though there a Thai students that get degrees in fewer than 3 years (especially the one that finish school at M4, do a few vocational certs, and somehow only manage 2 years in uni.

I guess it wouldn't matter having a 3 year degree with a post grad degree to back it up.