The Smokers Thread

[ClaytonSeymour]

Because letting proprietors and punters have a choice seems eminently sensible.

Whether you like it or not, smoking bans are here to stay; move on, get over it.

Edited February 18, 2008 by ClaytonSeymour

[McGinty]

By the way, I've smoked for 50 years and can't remember the last time I saw a doc!

At 50 plus years old you should have gained some common sense by now. Quite obviously you have no respect for your own body.

Prostate prods by your doctor should be conducted at least once per year for men of your vintage. By the time you feel the symptoms it may be too late.

A good mate of mine has been smoking for many years less than you, he goes into hospital this week to have cancer cut out from under his tongue and another lump cut out from his throat....and the stupid thing about it was that he had regular medical check ups but ignored the doctors warnings to give up his smoking habit.

Anyway, I don't wish bad health on you but I do hope that if you want to smoke you do it wherever it is legal to do so and not in certain establishments where it is now unlawful.

Mr Mighty Mouse

You suggest that I have no respect for my body. There are many different ways to respect ones body, as follows.

I don't get stressed out (smoking helps to relieve this).

I am not overweight (smoking helps to stop this).

I don't drink alcohol in excess.

I NEVER ride a motorbike (dam_n dangerous contraptions!)

I ALWAYS wear a seat belt in my car.

I never drive too fast.

I never walk out late at night.

I never go with BGs.

I'm not suggesting you do any of the above but if the cap fits....................!!!

Yes, I always smoke where it's legal and am very considerate where and when I smoke.

Now sir, if you'll excuse me I'm going onto my balcony to relax with a nice cup of tea and a cigarette .

Mc

[philliphn]

Cough! Cough!

[Naam]

Ok hang on lads... let's all calm down a bit.

The original poster (if forget who it was, and I've gotta coffee in one hand and a smoke in the other so I can't go back now and find out) of this thread needs to come in here and settle things down. The topic title reads: The Smoker's Thread - No Anti's allowed.

but then where's the fun? i like to have a good laugh when i read something like "the disgusting smoke residue is even in the pavement".

[McGinty]

Cough! Cough!

Funny you should say that - I NEVER cough

[Dave the Dude]

Because letting proprietors and punters have a choice seems eminently sensible.

Whether you like it or not, smoking bans are here to stay; move on, get over it.

Yes, I'm with Mr S on this:-

It's about time the government banned smoking on the pavement outside bars/restaurants.

I'm sick of going for a walk along the pavement outside bars/restaurants and coming home with my clothes and hair stinking of stale smoke.

[Mighty Mouse]

You suggest that I have no respect for my body. (snip)

Now sir, if you'll excuse me I'm going onto my balcony to relax with a nice cup of tea and a cigarette .

It sounds like you are enjoying life and I sincerely hope that you continue to do so. It also sounds like you are a most considerate smoker, ensuring that others in your near vicinity are not affected by your second hand smoke. I couldn't ask for more.......

.....except......

....do yourself a favour, even if it is a waste of time, go and have a thorough check up with your local doctor. Let him take a blood sample for analysis and run some other tests just to be on the safe side. Ensure that your doctor has small fingers cos the old prostate prod is most important.

May you enjoy many more decades of relaxing on your balcony.

[DavidS]

Sorry, didn't mean the OSHA comment to come over as condescending.

And what if (as pertaining to my previous suggestion) the owners have decided that the whole venue is the designated smoking area.

I almost never smoked in restaurant, and never in malls, in pubs and bars I did as it was part of the social interaction.

Cheers

Thank you, you appear to want to have a reasoned and reasonable discussion.

I think the other posts about the laws being here for keeps are correct. The best that smokers (or anyone advocating their right to choice) can hope for is a compromise.

It has been done at least once that I know of. When KLIA in Sepang first opened, there were no smoking rooms. After quite some time, one appeared in the satellite building, and then later, one in the main terminal.

But if one hopes for compromise, then it helps to keep in mind that the party seeking compromise has to be prepared to make concessions. Intransigence invites intransigence. There are not going to be long lines of non-smokers queuing up to petition the health minister to relax the ban.

Whilst I take your point about people choosing to work in hazardous occupations, with the possible exceptions of the prison service or army when at war, hazardous circumstances as caused by other human activity or negligence or indifference are generally not accepted. Allowing smoking in the workplace would fall under this category, and as an easily preventable hazard, should rightly be banned.

So I would suggest that the way to go would be separate smoking rooms, as in airports, with no service allowed in the room. If someone wants a drink in the smoking room, they go out and get it themselves. Not terribly difficult, as anyone who has had a drink in a western bar with no table service will tell you. And if they want service, then they sit in the general area and either step outside, or move to the smoking room for their smoke. They do have a choice.

Do the staff deserve this? Would they want it? If you have ever seen the looks of disgust on the faces of the cleaning ladies as they enter an airport smoking room to clear the ashtrays and sweep the floor, I think you would agree with me that they would welcome not having to enter a smoking room.

[percy2]

I think the other posts about the laws being here for keeps are correct. The best that smokers (or anyone advocating their right to choice) can hope for is a compromise.

It has been done at least once that I know of. When KLIA in Sepang first opened, there were no smoking rooms. After quite some time, one appeared in the satellite building, and then later, one in the main terminal.

But if one hopes for compromise, then it helps to keep in mind that the party seeking compromise has to be prepared to make concessions. Intransigence invites intransigence. There are not going to be long lines of non-smokers queuing up to petition the health minister to relax the ban.

Whilst I take your point about people choosing to work in hazardous occupations, with the possible exceptions of the prison service or army when at war, hazardous circumstances as caused by other human activity or negligence or indifference are generally not accepted. Allowing smoking in the workplace would fall under this category, and as an easily preventable hazard, should rightly be banned.

So I would suggest that the way to go would be separate smoking rooms, as in airports, with no service allowed in the room. If someone wants a drink in the smoking room, they go out and get it themselves. Not terribly difficult, as anyone who has had a drink in a western bar with no table service will tell you. And if they want service, then they sit in the general area and either step outside, or move to the smoking room for their smoke. They do have a choice.

Do the staff deserve this? Would they want it? If you have ever seen the looks of disgust on the faces of the cleaning ladies as they enter an airport smoking room to clear the ashtrays and sweep the floor, I think you would agree with me that they would welcome not having to enter a smoking room.

I think in an airport or other public place your are spot on.

On the other hand the places I was referring to are not publicly owned but privately and IMHO should be dealt with separately.

I have actually worked in an industry where day to day my life was dependant on my co-workers not being negligent or indifferent. It was my choice, the money was good, I'm not sure I will ever be tempted back (to the industry , and it wasn't in a war zone ,well not often). On the staff side we may have to agree to disagree.

Whether I think these decisions will ever be reversed , I think you and others are probably correct. Once you loose a freedom you seldom get it back. Which is why we should all defend our and others freedoms as a matter of course.

Cheers

Edit remove unnecessary quotes

Edited February 19, 2008 by percy2

[sweetchariot]

Back on topic, I went to a very well known bar for a couple of beers this evening. This is a very large bar which is air-con throughout. I was delighted to find that it was smoking as usual, and when I asked the mamasan she said the police had told her not to worry until May 31.

I think as they have publicised the fact there will be no prosecutions until this date they have left themselves wide open, and as other bars hear about xyz bar still allowing smoking, more and more bars will allow it until we are back to square one, and come May 31st it will be unenforcable/ forgotten about.

I won't mention the bar as supergrass will be straight off to the cop shop, but I will say, as I said nearly 2 months ago when this was first announced, this will never come to pass, maybe go-go's and restaurants which I don't mind, but come back and read this in 3 months and see how prematurely smug all you anti's have been.

[ClaytonSeymour]

Back on topic, I went to a very well known bar for a couple of beers this evening. This is a very large bar which is air-con throughout. I was delighted to find that it was smoking as usual, and when I asked the mamasan she said the police had told her not to worry until May 31.

I think as they have publicised the fact there will be no prosecutions until this date they have left themselves wide open, and as other bars hear about xyz bar still allowing smoking, more and more bars will allow it until we are back to square one, and come May 31st it will be unenforcable/ forgotten about.

I won't mention the bar as supergrass will be straight off to the cop shop, but I will say, as I said nearly 2 months ago when this was first announced, this will never come to pass, maybe go-go's and restaurants which I don't mind, but come back and read this in 3 months and see how prematurely smug all you anti's have been.

You're out of touch with reality; Thailand clearly wants to copy what's rapidly spreading in the fully developed world. I'll say it again, smoking bans are here to stay, like it or not & over time they'll become more draconian. If you want to smoke in public then you'll have to move on, owing to Arab culture, certain areas in the Middle East & Africa may well be the last to follow suit.

The days of the Marlboro man & the 'cool' film stars smoking their heads off are a thing of the past; smoking is becoming more & more socially unacceptable, often associated with the 'lower class.' I'm not suggesting that you are 'lower class' but, the stigma is certainly out there.

[bulzit]

Thailand enforce a smoking ban? Right after they enforce the prostitution law!

[McGinty]

You suggest that I have no respect for my body. (snip)

Now sir, if you'll excuse me I'm going onto my balcony to relax with a nice cup of tea and a cigarette .

It sounds like you are enjoying life and I sincerely hope that you continue to do so. It also sounds like you are a most considerate smoker, ensuring that others in your near vicinity are not affected by your second hand smoke. I couldn't ask for more.......

.....except......

....do yourself a favour, even if it is a waste of time, go and have a thorough check up with your local doctor. Let him take a blood sample for analysis and run some other tests just to be on the safe side. Ensure that your doctor has small fingers cos the old prostate prod is most important.

May you enjoy many more decades of relaxing on your balcony.

You've got me seriously thinking about this.............thankyou for your good advice.

[chuckd]

Thailand enforce a smoking ban? Right after they enforce the prostitution law!

This law will be enforced. Too much money slipping away if the local gendarmes don't enforce it.

2,000 per smoker and 20,000 per bar. That certainly beats 200 baht for riding without a helmet.

[sweetchariot]

Yesterday I had a look around in Pattaya, and while most places now had the ashtrays back on the tables there were only 1 or 2 customers in each bar actually pestering the air for the rest (30-40 guest). So much for 1/3 of the world are smokers.

I hope Phil Conners doesn't mind me nicking his post from another thread, but it seems my prediction is coming true. And the more bars that allow smoking the more will follow. Another week or 2 and we will be back to business as usual.

Don't expect any enforcement until June, and by then I would say it will be uncontrollable.

edit: Typo

Edited February 20, 2008 by sweetchariot

[tartempion]

OK anti's allowed as long as they are not pontificating. I am sure the anti's would take great joy in telling us where we can't smoke, which btw is the purpose of this thread.

Anyone?

I smoked for 40 years until the day I got a myocradial infarct.

As they say here:" you like to smoke? Up to you" (as long as it is not into my face)

Do I feel better now?

Oh yes I do , every day

[Phil Conners]

Yesterday I had a look around in Pattaya, and while most places now had the ashtrays back on the tables there were only 1 or 2 customers in each bar actually pestering the air for the rest (30-40 guest). So much for 1/3 of the world are smokers.

I hope Phil Conners doesn't mind me nicking his post from another thread, but it seems my prediction is coming true. And the more bars that allow smoking the more will follow. Another week or 2 and we will be back to business as usual.

Don't expect any enforcement until June, and by then I would say it will be uncontrollable.

edit: Typo

No, I don't mind you nicking my post. But note that there were 1 or 2 smokers among 30-40 non-smokers. I made a point out of mentioning to the manager that I though they should enforce the no smoking ban. I'm sure when enough non-smokers make that point they will finally see that it makes financial sense not to let 1 or 2 addicts pollute the air for the rest.

[kayo]

You're out of touch with reality; Thailand clearly wants to copy what's rapidly spreading in the fully developed world.

[sweetchariot]

Yesterday I had a look around in Pattaya, and while most places now had the ashtrays back on the tables there were only 1 or 2 customers in each bar actually pestering the air for the rest (30-40 guest). So much for 1/3 of the world are smokers.

I hope Phil Conners doesn't mind me nicking his post from another thread, but it seems my prediction is coming true. And the more bars that allow smoking the more will follow. Another week or 2 and we will be back to business as usual.

Don't expect any enforcement until June, and by then I would say it will be uncontrollable.

edit: Typo

No, I don't mind you nicking my post. But note that there were 1 or 2 smokers among 30-40 non-smokers. I made a point out of mentioning to the manager that I though they should enforce the no smoking ban. I'm sure when enough non-smokers make that point they will finally see that it makes financial sense not to let 1 or 2 addicts pollute the air for the rest.

That is an unusually low ratio though Phil, maybe all the smokers were outside as they thought they weren't allowed?

[torrenova]

If governments were at all interested in the health of the nation then they would just make tobacco products illegal. All they want is cash.

We don't need a nanny state. Let the market decide. Already people could do as the Sportsman did on Soi 13 and make itslef no smoking. Patrons would then either go there or elsewhere. No government intervention was necessary.

[percy2]

If governments were at all interested in the health of the nation then they would just make tobacco products illegal. All they want is cash.

We don't need a nanny state. Let the market decide. Already people could do as the Sportsman did on Soi 13 and make itslef no smoking. Patrons would then either go there or elsewhere. No government intervention was necessary.

I absolutely agree.

They should either ban it completely (which I would support) or let people choose.

Dithering about is good for no one.

Cheers

[ClaytonSeymour]

Yesterday I had a look around in Pattaya, and while most places now had the ashtrays back on the tables there were only 1 or 2 customers in each bar actually pestering the air for the rest (30-40 guest). So much for 1/3 of the world are smokers.

I hope Phil Conners doesn't mind me nicking his post from another thread, but it seems my prediction is coming true. And the more bars that allow smoking the more will follow. Another week or 2 and we will be back to business as usual.

Don't expect any enforcement until June, and by then I would say it will be uncontrollable.

edit: Typo

I wonder where yourself & other smokers resitance to the smoking ban fits in on this scale?

http://www.anxietycare.org.uk/docs/origins.asp

It's going to happen whether you like it or not & it will be enforced, if only for the easy pickings for the Thai constabulary, as stated by other posters.

[gharknes]

Has the law changed or is just pattaya authorities putting their own spin on it, none smoking in open air bars is rediculous, you can smoke in open bars in the UK and Ireland, the original government release of this legislation was no smoking in aircon places only, I spoke to a few bar owners and they said open bars where not included in the ban and that the information spread out on various public forums including this one was incorrect.

can someone that actually knows clear this confusion up.

only in thailand

[Mighty Mouse]

That is an unusually low ratio though Phil, maybe all the smokers were outside as they thought they weren't allowed?

They aren't allowed. Can't you understand that? The new law is now in force.

Yes, there may be an initial period where the authorities allow owners and customers to adjust but irrespective of that, the law is in force.

Maybe the majority of responsible smokers have now got the message and aren't indulging in their addiction whilst in these establishments and take their habit elsewhere. These people are the considerate, law abiding citizens.

Then we have the irresponsible smoking morons. The ones who don't give a dam_n about anyone except themselves, don't give a dam_n about laws and regulations and openly encourage others to join them in breaking all the rules. These people are the ones who forced Governments around the world to introduce the 'no smoking' bans in the first place.

Sweetchariot, out of these two categories, where do you fit?

[ClaytonSeymour]

Well, I've had the Wife on the case. A special hotline, like the one in the UK for reporting establishments not observing/enforcing the smoking ban, hasn't been set up yet. However, she does say that you can call this number 02-25903342 & amongst many other things report such matters.

No more details on what this number actually is, she'd gone to bed before I got home & just left a note for me. I will enquire further tomorrow.

[plasticpig]

Did the note also say.

Ps, Please don’t be sad all your life take a day off.

[percy2]

Did the note also say.

Ps, Please don’t be sad all your life take a day off.

Its just last post syndrome.

Sufferers think they have proved their point if they have had the last word.

Cheers

[plasticpig]

Cheers

Edited February 21, 2008 by plasticpig

[sweetchariot]

Update: last night was out with a friend from the UK who is here on holiday. Unfortunately when friends come over we have to do the mandatory walking st/ go-go bar circuit. I am not a particular fan of either, especially as I thought the go-go's would be the biggest smoking ban stalwarts.

To my pleasant surprise 3 of the 5 that we went to were allowing smoking.

The tide is turning, victory will be ours.

[gharknes]

Has the law changed or is just pattaya authorities putting their own spin on it, none smoking in open air bars is rediculous, you can smoke in open bars in the UK and Ireland, the original government release of this legislation was no smoking in aircon places only, I spoke to a few bar owners and they said open bars where not included in the ban and that the information spread out on various public forums including this one was incorrect.

can someone that actually knows clear this confusion up.

only in thailand

I find it interesting that nobody has replied to this post, there is obviously nobody here that actually knows, that makes all smoking threads on this forum utterly useless and meaningless.

I'LL ask again, can someone that 100% knows if the smoking ban of Thailand previously/officially announced by the government has been altered by the government to include all open air venues as well as enclosed aircon, or is this alteration only by pattaya local authoritie or is there no alteration at all and it's made up crap by some illinformed people just trying to stir it up and create confusion, I'd go for the latter as most of the open bar owners know nothing about it.