Mail Order Rip Off

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Back in early December I posted a thread on ordering from India, my question was did people think it was safe to order from India and send check to a company who had a website for fishing lure components. The basic response was don't. I responded to the company (Saga Instruments) and told them I was uncomfortable sending a check with no assurance I would receive my order. They responded saying they had a Paypal account and I could pay through them. So after some humming and hawing I decided since they dealt with Paypal they were probably alright.

Sent the money on 24th December through Paypal and was told they would ship in 3 weeks. That seemed like a long time but I agreed. In 3 weeks plus a couple of days I sent a email asking about my order, the response was another 10-12 days. In 12 days I sent a inquire and they said next week. After a week went by I ask when my order would be shipped and no response. Waited a few more days and still no response so told them to ship within the next 48Hours or consider the order canceled and refund my money to Paypal, still no response.

Contacted Paypal and after wading through 30 pages of crap file a complaint. Paypal essentially said it wasn't their problem to contact the seller and work something out.

I found the seller Saga Industries through Alibaba and will register a complaint with Alibaba. My question is does anyone have any suggestions on how to stir up a ton of crap for this guy??

By the way the total of the order was 674US$ including UPS shipping.

Edited February 15, 2008 by endure
Email address removed as per forum rules.

[mikethevigoman]

Back in early December I posted a thread on ordering from India, my question was did people think it was safe to order from India and send check to a company who had a website for fishing lure components. The basic response was don't. I responded to the company (Saga Instruments) and told them I was uncomfortable sending a check with no assurance I would receive my order. They responded saying they had a Paypal account and I could pay through them. So after some humming and hawing I decided since they dealt with Paypal they were probably alright.

Sent the money on 24th December through Paypal and was told they would ship in 3 weeks. That seemed like a long time but I agreed. In 3 weeks plus a couple of days I sent a email asking about my order, the response was another 10-12 days. In 12 days I sent a inquire and they said next week. After a week went by I ask when my order would be shipped and no response. Waited a few more days and still no response so told them to ship within the next 48Hours or consider the order canceled and refund my money to Paypal, still no response.

Contacted Paypal and after wading through 30 pages of crap file a complaint. Paypal essentially said it wasn't their problem to contact the seller and work something out.

I found the seller Saga Industries through Alibaba and will register a complaint with Alibaba. My question is does anyone have any suggestions on how to stir up a ton of crap for this guy??

By the way the total of the order was 674US$ including UPS shipping.

Well i am going to say it again, that ali baba is a good name but they left off "and the 40 thieves ". i was very nearly taken for a lot more than that but i smelt a rat, it was my tuition that saved me,and ill say this because we will hear from others how marvellous ali baba is,there is bound to be some bad eggs on there however id say the best form of business contacts are through personal recommendations, of course its not alwys possible so ask them for previous client lists, and heres the shaker , CAN I COLLECT !, that sorts out the real from the dodgy,.

[mikethevigoman]

Back in early December I posted a thread on ordering from India, my question was did people think it was safe to order from India and send check to a company who had a website for fishing lure components. The basic response was don't. I responded to the company (Saga Instruments) and told them I was uncomfortable sending a check with no assurance I would receive my order. They responded saying they had a Paypal account and I could pay through them. So after some humming and hawing I decided since they dealt with Paypal they were probably alright.

Sent the money on 24th December through Paypal and was told they would ship in 3 weeks. That seemed like a long time but I agreed. In 3 weeks plus a couple of days I sent a email asking about my order, the response was another 10-12 days. In 12 days I sent a inquire and they said next week. After a week went by I ask when my order would be shipped and no response. Waited a few more days and still no response so told them to ship within the next 48Hours or consider the order canceled and refund my money to Paypal, still no response.

Contacted Paypal and after wading through 30 pages of crap file a complaint. Paypal essentially said it wasn't their problem to contact the seller and work something out.

I found the seller Saga Industries through Alibaba and will register a complaint with Alibaba. My question is does anyone have any suggestions on how to stir up a ton of crap for this guy??

By the way the total of the order was 674US$ including UPS shipping.

i have to add, i doubt you will get any response from him now, as for paypal they are opportunist b@stards, they only refund when funded by a credit card as you can do a chargeback for non supply,. if funded by a bank forget it, they have stitched me 3 times for in excess of $4000,.its worse for sellers,.ali baba will just tell you thet cannot be held responsible for all their members blah blah blah, im afraid as you parted with your money on 24th dec you might want to consider it a xmas present to a scammer, because thats how it appears or ended up im afriad,. ,

[burman]

If you paid via credit card then go straight to the credit card company, tell them to take the payment back.

Edited February 15, 2008 by burman

[TheWalkingMan]

I had a problem with a paypal vendor for non-delivery of software. Paypal just washed their hands of the affair as it was a non-tangible asset, but I complained to, and provided documentation to my VISA company and after 2~3 months I got a refund! I was happy.

But I was pissed at the vendor. I even called the sheriff in his home town. They told me to try elsewhere.

Maybe you can go thru your VISA company directly.

TheWalkingMan

[mikethevigoman]

If you paid via credit card then go straight to the credit card company, tell them to take the payment back.

Good advice, if hes not too late and the paypal payment was funded by c card,paypal would never advise you of this as they would lose their commision, its worth a try,

[burman]

Always happy to advertise this website Paypalsucks

Edited February 15, 2008 by burman

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Thanks for that. Yes I did pay Paypal with my Visa card so I will send them a request to recover my money from Paypal for non-delivery and let them try and recover it from Saga Industries.

You brightned up my evening I hate the idea of being ripped off more than the loss of money. And it pleases me that Paypal may have to try and collect from those %$#@.

Thanks

[burman]

Call up the visa company, I would say suspected fraud is the reason to make the claim. I think they'll charge back paypal straight away, then paypal will deduct the money from Saga, and Saga will not be able to do a thing about it.

Not sure if you have any time restrictions on this, would suggest you take care of it ASAP.

[mikethevigoman]

Thanks for that. Yes I did pay Paypal with my Visa card so I will send them a request to recover my money from Paypal for non-delivery and let them try and recover it from Saga Industries.

You brightned up my evening I hate the idea of being ripped off more than the loss of money. And it pleases me that Paypal may have to try and collect from those %$#@.

Thanks

i think im probably going to tell you what you have already been told but on your card there will/should be a phone number for your card issuer, call them NOW dont waste time, tell them you feel this transaction is unsafe and you have had no goods, it wouldnt surprise me if you got a credit whilst on the phone, i have before,.

[greenwood]

If you buy anything online is always best to use a Credit Card as you always have the option if the goods are not recieved to have the item credited via complaint to the card company.

Same goes for air tickets, if the travel company you have used goes bust, if you pay by cash, u have no chance of refund. But if you pay by card, the same applies as if you have not recieved goods from your online transaction.

[WHITESAND]

Does the same apply if your paypal account is funded by visa debit card?

[naka]

Does the same apply if your paypal account is funded by visa debit card?

Yes WS, I too have noticed that many are unaware of the difference ... Plastic

Naka.

Edited February 16, 2008 by naka

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Saga did not take credit cards. Did pay Paypal with a credit card. Our visa card is on an Australian Bank and you can only talk to them Mon thru Friday during business hours. So we will call first thing Mon morning.

Australia is not as fast to react on Visa cards complaints as the US is. So I think it will take a while, thats OK as long as I get it back. Hopefully in the process Saga or Paypal have a lot of inconviencence and some lost $ would be nice.

Thanks

[dave111223]

You should be able to open a "Dispute" and then escalate it to a "Claim", at which point Paypal has to step in, and unless this Indian company can provide a Package Tracking # for the delivered item (which obviously they cannot), Paypal should reverse the payment.

Login to your Paypal account then click on the transaction then click the "Details" link next to the payment. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click the "Resolution Center" link.

Then click the "Report a Problem" link.

This will allow you to "Open the Dispute". Then after a few days of the seller not responding just escalate it to a claim.

As others have advised you should also called the bank and have the payment canceled from that end.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Thanks Dave

I did the resolution center bit and they said the complaint has been registered. They also said it did not qualify and I should try and resolve it with Saga. Since Saga does not respond to my emails that is difficult. But I am sure the emails I do have show that they were jerking me around and never shipped.

We will continue pursuing it from both ends on Monday. I have hopes the bank will satisfy a long term customer.

Will update the results as we learn anything.

[dave111223]

What reason did they give that you didn't qualify?

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Dave

I sent Paypal a copy of one of my emails to Saga which defines the problem. It was as follows:

Dear Mr. Ravi;

It appears that for some reason you are either unable or unwilling to deliver the items in my order. I feel the time it has taken is excessive and I ordered these items because I had a need for them. I do not intend to wait any longer. If you are unable to ship the order and give me a UPS shipping number in the next 48 hours consider the order canceled and I will place it with a establishment that can deliver. If you are unable to ship in this time frame please refund my money to my account with Paypal the same account as I paid you with.

You accepted the order on 24th December 2007 and said at that time it would take 3 weeks to ship. So your original ship date was January 11th. I contacted you on 15th January and you said it would ship in 10-12 days. Which would have been the 25th or 27th of January. When I contacted you regarding that shipment date you said next week. That was over 3 weeks ago and still no order.

Within a matter of a couple of seconds after sending this to Paypal. They responded saying something to the effect that it didn't qualify. They gave no rreason why and their response was so fast it would not have provided time to read the post much less consider it's contents. My feeling is that it is a canned rsponse they send everyone. The only other thing it said was they registered my complaint.and to try and work it out with the supplier.

[mikethevigoman]

Does the same apply if your paypal account is funded by visa debit card?

Good question but i didnt think so,i had a case of a swipe transaction done on my debit card in korea, ive never been there i had to fax all sorts and eventually got it back but not as quick or effecient as the c card,. the old scam a few years ago was people in the uk would buy cheap cigarettes on line in andorra or similar and have them posted back, if they got through all well and good but if customs snatched them you could call the card company and get a credit, they soon cottoned onto it ,. Edited February 16, 2008 by mikethevigoman

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Update

Talked to Visa this morning and they said it could take up to 60 days to resolve. But do believe I will get my money back.