Thais And Depression

[dukkha]

Sensitive but relevant topic me thinks..

The west has now acknowledged the medical implications of mental depression.

It affects a huge number of the poplulation...I dont think it has the same acknowledgment in Thailand.

I have a friend who refers to his partners mood swings, up to four months or more of no contact...

I think it is the tip of the iceberg so to speak, but a real problem, culturally I imagine it is not

acknowledged..for those of us with thai partners it IS an issue...we are aware of the economic depression

that is rife in this nation, but the mental depression rarely gets a mention...as someone who had suffered

from this and been treated by western medicine I wonder what is available for thais, especially those

farangs whose partners may be suffering from it..I am not interested in comments like: 'Well just get over

it and get on with your life"...I feel it is a much more deeper issue than that...I am not suggesting we

apply some western solution to such a problem but at least acknowledge that it does exist and what are

the resources for us and our thai friends/partners to deal with it.. Dukkha

[lannarebirth]

Google "sugar depression", then give a thought to how unnecessarily sweet most Thai food is. I really think there's a link.

[Thaifan2]

Never knew that there was such a thing as a depressed Thai person .I suppose its possible though .

[Robski]

Alcohol and Karaoke is a good remedy.

[swain]

I hear you... this is a real problem... I see it a lot and yes I am in a Frang - Thai relationship. I have dome the research... and seen the doctors... Its funny you said you don't want to hear get over it and move on with your life... because that is what the doctor told my wife. He told her to think happy thoughts and have more fun. I can tell you I didn't want to pay this idiot. For my wife its hormonal and it is something that happens right before her period. You can get zoloft here but its expensive... Prozac and its generics are here and cheap.

I had a friend that came to town after the bubble burst and he lost all his money... tried to help him but he ultimately couldn't deal with the loss and killed himself. Depression is real.. and it kills.. so please don't ignore the problem...

[Pundi64]

Sensitive but relevant topic me thinks..

The west has now acknowledged the medical implications of mental depression.

It affects a huge number of the poplulation...I dont think it has the same acknowledgment in Thailand.

I have a friend who refers to his partners mood swings, up to four months or more of no contact...

I think it is the tip of the iceberg so to speak, but a real problem, culturally I imagine it is not

acknowledged..for those of us with thai partners it IS an issue...we are aware of the economic depression

that is rife in this nation, but the mental depression rarely gets a mention...as someone who had suffered

from this and been treated by western medicine I wonder what is available for thais, especially those

farangs whose partners may be suffering from it..I am not interested in comments like: 'Well just get over

it and get on with your life"...I feel it is a much more deeper issue than that...I am not suggesting we

apply some western solution to such a problem but at least acknowledge that it does exist and what are

the resources for us and our thai friends/partners to deal with it.. Dukkha

Yes depression is a real "human" problem, no matter if your frang, Thai, Mexican, Fin, Swedish, any human can suffer from this real debilitating disease. Clinical Depression can be a killer, just like a bullet, thou a bullet is much faster.

Clinical Depression is not just an emotional imbalance, like so many believe, it is a chemical imbalance of the brains function to work properly with absorption of the saratonins and can be an inherited disease from ones family members. One thing to remember, a person who suffers from this terrible state of mind, it is not there fault nor anyones fault, but a real diease that can be controled with medication, so people can live a happy fulfiling life with one's self or mate.

There can be a light at the end of the dark tunnel. Seek out the proper care, at a proper medical facility, that deal in this kind of disease, not some backyard, small shop MD.

Good luck to all who suffer-

[seonai]

Absolutely, it is a matter of serotonin re uptake and it can be managed like all other illnesses with drugs. There is no need to be ashamed of taking these drugs it is just a case of accepting that your brain is not firing on all cylinders and the correct drugs can work ... you have to make sure you have the correct doctor and the correct drugs ...

[dominator]

Alcohol and Karaoke is a good remedy.

Don't forget the platinum credit card

[sriracha john]

Never knew that there was such a thing as a depressed Thai person .I suppose its possible though .

Depression is a human condition and as all humans have the same brain chemistry, depression is a world-wide problem.

Some relevant statistics:

Percentage of families of depressed patients manifesting significant family dysfunction: 50-75%

Strongest predicator of relapse among depressed patients from dysfunctional families: Amount of perceived criticism

Percentage of depressed women who report marital difficulties: 50%

Lifetime prevalence of major depression, for women: 7%

Sources: Ivan W. Miller et al., Journal of Abnormal Psychology (Vol. 101, No. 4); Jim Mintz, Ph.D., et al., Archives of Genreal Psychiatry (Vol. 49, No. 10); Cross National Collaborotive Group, JAMA (Vol 268, No. 21).

Edited February 16, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Absolutely, it is a matter of serotonin re uptake and it can be managed like all other illnesses with drugs. There is no need to be ashamed of taking these drugs it is just a case of accepting that your brain is not firing on all cylinders and the correct drugs can work ... you have to make sure you have the correct doctor and the correct drugs ...

While the advent of new pharmacology has made tremendous advancements and helped millions, a significant portion of those afflicted continue to suffer depression despite any and all treatments.

Edited February 15, 2008 by sriracha john

[aaaaaa]

Google "sugar depression", then give a thought to how unnecessarily sweet most Thai food is. I really think there's a link.

ha! they pour generous spoon or two of dried chili into their noodle soup - AND a spoon or tow of sugar !

BTW about alcohol and sugar - spirits are perhaps the most concentrated "sugar" among all consumable products.

Each gram of pure alcohol provides 7 Calories (7000 calories) of energy. In addition, alcoholic beverages often contain sugar and other nutrients, increasing their calorific value. A single measure of spirits contains about 50 Calories, and one pint of lager contains about 170 Calories. Drinking too much alcohol can lead to obesity because some is converted to fat.

[mistresserika]

Google "sugar depression", then give a thought to how unnecessarily sweet most Thai food is. I really think there's a link.

I wouldn't be suprised if MSG is another cause. Have you seen the way they load their food with it, especially the street traders. Although I don't like the food in MK restaurants, they do make a statement that they do not use MSG, I think some other responsible chain restaurants avoid using it as well. And look at the number of Far East Asians wearing glasses, MSG is a factor in eye problems.

[PeaceBlondie]

Here in Chiang Mai. There was an article in citylife magazine about three years ago. The article was mostly about psychiatric disorders of the Thai people, both historically and currently. The director of the large local mental hospital, which is located just outside the moat on the south end of town, was interviewed. This psychiatrist was quoted in the article as saying that traditionally the Thai people feel that they lose face if they have a crazy relative. And so they usually just kept the family member secluded in the house without proper treatment. In recent years, he said, they are more aware of such problems and are more likely to seek help. In fact, if I remember correctly I think he said that depression was very common in Thailand. But that they were able to treat it in many cases now.

[dukkha]

Some dismissive responses and some with a little more compassion, to be expected from the forum.

I aint no expert but my feeling is, as PB mentions, that thai society does not deal with depression.

The notions of 'sanuk', 'mai pen rai' and 'kit maak maak' seem to me, of course a westerner, to be efforts

to mask what may be deeper issues for thai people. There are many idicators of depression such as sleep

disorders, eating habits, drug and alcohol abuse, and the list goes on.

I guess what I am trying to express is that knowing one or two early 30's thai men who display many of these

symptoms, how does one go about approaching some kind of help...we westerners are quick to run off to

any number of medical professionals, this is not always availble to thais, especially non educated ones..a friend of mine, who prompted me to write this thread, admitted to me that he thinks his thai partner of 6 years is suffering

from depression. This guy was a heavy abuser of all substances, has been clean for 2 years, but now he has no

crutches he spirals out and stays indoors for long periods of time and this guy has a wife and two young sons.

I know them well and am disturbed by what is going on...I feel the situation will only worsen and there is a need for

intervention. I cannot take on that role but can offer a shoulder and an ear....I think none of us really wish to see

people suffering at any level, despite it being a central core of Buddhism.

For me after 14 years of anti depressants, I threw them away 6 years ago whilst living here, some kind of indictment for me about living in this culture...I seem to have managed OK, but that is not the case for all.

Thanks for your comments and any further constructive ones are always welcomed.

Dukkha

[girlx]

i have noticed that mental illness is a huge stigma in thai society, which is quite sad. a guy in my village is schizophrenic. he has been diagnosed and put on medication, but because they are scared that he is "crazy", his family has abandoned him. last i heard he was living alone in a little shack in the jungle. he needs people around to support him and make sure he gets his meds or he really can have a bad reaction that is scary. quite sad.

another example is an old homeless man that (used to?) live in banglamphu. he must be about 70, and he dresses up every day in a suit and a briefcase despite the fact that they are the same filthy things he wore the day before. he lives on the street and begs for food. the thais ignore him for the most part because he rambles on to himself. he is "crazy".

i think thais consider it bad karma, and so they let it be rather than treating it.

[camerata]

I've come across one or two urban middle-class, middle-aged females who are depressed. For a well-educated Thai woman, I think the typical stay-at-home marriage is pretty hard to bear these days. Samitivej has some good shrinks, but as someone said, Zoloft and some other depression meds are very expensive. And Prozac is not the panacea it's made out to be.

[maturin]

Hi,

I've had mild to serious depression for years and I don't care who knows it, excepting lawyers, employers, insurers and those types. I'll list some of the things I've learned.

I think there is a great deal of truth in the idea that a lot of depression used to be called sadness before it became a theraputic industry. We used to have the sorts of community which helped. We don't any longer.

The old addage that only you can pick up your bundle is bullshit. TLC from others is crucial.

Depression strikes carers and those with responsibility most often.

If you or your friends are in this category get industrial grade help (bloody good pshychiatrist AND medication) IMMEDIATELY. Don't bugger about with therapists, you are standing on the edge of a very high cliff!

Responsible people DENY depression until they are in crisis, hence the above.

Thoughtful people with depression isolate themselves so as not to 'bring down' their friends. This makes it worse.

Contact and talk to everybody you know round the clock if you hit a crisis, and keep doing it. (Break down on the phone, hel_l, actors do it for pay ... it may save your life!) Friends who 'cold shoulder' you weren't worth having anyway.

Just about all medications involve 10 days of feeling really bad, PUT UP WITH IT!.Most of them effect either your general sexual function or your ability to climax, Warn your partner about this. The anti-smoking drug Quomem (150mg) tends not to interfere with sexual function buts it's very expensive and is not a strong enough anti depressant to get a grip on depression ASAP which is what you need to do. It can be very useful later on.

Take medication for depression AND Anxiety until it's clear which is the main element. Getting addicted to Xanax is no big deal. You can quit it in about 10 days

Set your alarm 2 hours earlier in the morning and WALK. Force yourself out of bed. You'll hate it but IT WORKS.

Take unspecified sick leave in a big hit ...... or you'll screw up and loose your job.

Join help groups and anything else on offer. Pack your life with things to do with other people. It hurts, but it works.

Don't expect to react to medication like other people. It's different for everyone.

If you are CERTAIN that your depression is caused by your circumstances, and check with others. Then get up and leave. It's simply not worth allowing the depression to become 'clinical'.

75% of teachers will eventually admit to being on anti-depressants, and the score line for other professionals is about the same. It's a good deal lower for others.

Which brings us to the only good aspect of the disease. It's a mental illness, in this case a chemical absorbtion inballance in the brain of Seratonin or Dopamine. Once you get over the hurdle of being a 'psychiatric' patient you start seeing all those other poor bastards with lifelong problems in a different light.

The treatment I got at Chiang Mai's Psychiatric hospital was way above the standard I get in Australia, and, yes, I was the only farang in there. So there are people suffering needlessly in the Chiang Mai farang community. That is truly stupid.

HOPE SOME OF THIS WAS HELPFULL. I AM A PATIENT, NOT A DOCTOR. It comes and goes.

Maturin.

[Scott]

It's hard to diagnose someone with depression if they don't get out of bed long enough to see a doctor!

[a2396]

Most Asians don't have a high recognition level for mental health issues, unless someone is a stark, raving lunitic. It's pretty much a taboo issue for discussion. I have certainly met a lot of females here with what I would classifly as borderline stability. The lack of a rational thought process and little realization of cause and effect, are common traits here.

[sriracha john]

This psychiatrist was quoted in the article as saying that traditionally the Thai people feel that they lose face if they have a crazy relative. And so they usually just kept the family member secluded in the house without proper treatment.

i have noticed that mental illness is a huge stigma in thai society, which is quite sad. a guy in my village is schizophrenic. he has been diagnosed and put on medication, but because they are scared that he is "crazy", his family has abandoned him. last i heard he was living alone in a little shack

Like several other issues, Thailand is now where the Western world was in the 1940's in terms of mental health...

On other issues, Thailand is variably from the 1950's, 1960's, 1970's, or all the way up until the late 2000's in the case of

exclusive-brand-name shopping inside glistening mega-malls.

It's a tragic shame they have developed the most up-to-date comparisons in the least-important areas.

[girlx]

Take medication for depression AND Anxiety until it's clear which is the main element. Getting addicted to Xanax is no big deal. You can quit it in about 10 days

Sorry but this is HORRIBLE advice! No one should self diagnose. Even doctors sometimes get it wrong, and you do not want to go messing around with your brain chemistry as it can make things much worse. Depression and anxiety disorders are treated differently, and in some cases, for instance if you try to treat someone with an anxiety disorder with antidepressants, the drugs will actually exacerbate the anxiety or vice versa (I know this from experience). I also know from the experience of watching one of my parents be addicted to benzodiazepenes that they are not something to take casually.

[popshirt]

Maturin, thanks for your post. It parallels my own experience almost to the letter.

I know this thread is about Thais and depression and I am pleased to hear there is good treatment available somewhere in Thailand.

I lived with depression from childhood until a major meltdown at the age of 50. I have now been depression free for over 15 years; it is truly a "born again" experience! I take mild medication and I do not feel drugged in any way. Congratulations to you!