Magic

[j0hnga1t]

My girlfriend is converting me to buddhism. For the past five years I have been headed in that direction and it's nice to finally have a guide.....Now for my question:

I notice in Thailand that people wear buddha amulets. Do they possess power to protect or bring wealth or love or etc.....?

I though our future/Karma is determined based on our actions in our current and past lives and that nothing can intercede/alter that direction which we have chose/is a result of our actions .

AGAIN I'm only a beginner, any insight on this mystic side of buddhism would be appreciated including links to website that discuss this.....

Curtis

[Brucenkhamen]

My girlfriend is converting me to buddhism. For the past five years I have been headed in that direction and it's nice to finally have a guide.....Now for my question:

I notice in Thailand that people wear buddha amulets. Do they possess power to protect or bring wealth or love or etc.....?

I though our future/Karma is determined based on our actions in our current and past lives and that nothing can intercede/alter that direction which we have chose/is a result of our actions .

AGAIN I'm only a beginner, any insight on this mystic side of buddhism would be appreciated including links to website that discuss this.....

Curtis

Do you believe in lucky charms? rabbits feet and the like? Have you have experiences where they've helped you in the past?

If not then you are like most westerners who are interested in Buddhism.

I'd steer clear of the Thai amulet industry if I were you they may have the image of the Buddha on them but they have no relationship to the Buddhas teaching.

[chutai]

I notice in Thailand that people wear buddha amulets. Do they possess power to protect or bring wealth or love or etc.....?

I'm afraid that it's something of a nonsense to think amulets bought in Thailand can bing any great benefit (even if consecrated) . Although there is a case to suggest that painted and wooden images may contain the enlightenment of plants and trees, so thus contain a spiritual property. But this is extremely doctrinal and I don't think is helpful in answering your questions. And I'm not sure that it extends to plain, unpainted metal anyway.

I though our future/Karma is determined based on our actions in our current and past lives and that nothing can intercede/alter that direction which we have chose/is a result of our actions .

Your certainly on the right track here. I often think of the words of this Buddhist text :

If you want to understand the causes you have made in the past *, look at the effects as they are manifested in the present. And if you wish to know what results will appear in the future, look at the causes you are making now.

* Of course reference to the past here means in this life.

The thing to remember that lot of what passes as Buddhism in Thailand is what I term as 'folk Buddhism' .That is, it contains elements of animism and other practices that are not directly related to Buddhist teachings at all. That is definately not to say that we ought not to respect the culture in which we are hosted and the religious practices therein. To the contary. But I'm sure that you instintively know this anyway.

I'd like to relate an experience that puts the 'folk' aspect of Buddhism in context. When I first came to Thailand, some years ago, and naively believed that Buddhism here would be purely based upon the teachings of Shakyamuni. The first temple that I visited was in the newer town of Sukhothai (near to the old Kingdom). I was shocked to find that within the walls of the temple there were all astrologers, palm readers and all manner of soothsayers.

I manged to speak to the head monk and asked why all this 'hocus pocus' was allowed within the temple ? His reply was in the form of an analogy, i.e. That wasn't a problem as they (soothsayers) had the "weak beer" , "but Buddhism has the strong whisky".

There is much truth in this. Whilst all the trappings that we find in 'folk Buddhism' and elsewhere may not be the actual way to liberation - at least it displays an aspiration to such.

[IMA_FARANG]

My girlfriend is converting me to buddhism. For the past five years I have been headed in that direction and it's nice to finally have a guide.....Now for my question:

I notice in Thailand that people wear buddha amulets. Do they possess power to protect or bring wealth or love or etc.....?

I though our future/Karma is determined based on our actions in our current and past lives and that nothing can intercede/alter that direction which we have chose/is a result of our actions .

AGAIN I'm only a beginner, any insight on this mystic side of buddhism would be appreciated including links to website that discuss this.....

Curtis

To be blunt....No. The Buddha amulets are a popular side of Buddhism. They are for those who wish to believe in them and find some comfort in their "magic" properties. There is nothing wrong with them as symbols, but the idea that a piece of metal can have some magical power is probably contrary to the true spirit of Buddhisim, which is (I feel) a personal internal reconciliation with and understanding of one's relationship to the world and one's true nature in the world.

Quite a few years ago there was a well-known Thai monk who claimed that he could produce amulets that would protect the owners against anything, including gunshots. To prove it he and his followers blessed an amulet which they then placed on a chicken. The amulet was to stop bullets from hitting the chicken. The chicken was tied to a stake, and a shotgun was fired directly at the chicken, after an appropeiate ceremony and chanting to protect the chicken.

Pieces of chicken went everywhere.

But I don't criticise amulets. Here's a story that explains.

A wealthy man went on a long trip. As he was returning from the trip on of his sevents ran up to him. "Oh sir,"he shouted, "A terrible thing has occured since you left. You wife and family have been struck down by some disease that has driven them mad. You're children will not go to school, but only play and fight all day. Your wife does no housework, but only sits in her room dreaming of expensive clothes and parties. We do not know what to do to cure their sickness."

"What", said the man, "is there no medicine for this disease?"

"Yes there is", said the servent, "but we can not get them to take the medicine to make them well."

So the man went to each one of his family with the medicine.

To his wife he said that if she took the medicine she would be made more beutiful than ever.

To his children he told them the medicine was a magical elixer that would make them into superheros or giants.

For whatever reason, each one of his family took the medicine they needed, and then they were cured.

So the amulets you see are like the reasons the wealty man gave to his family to take the medicine they needed. For whatever reason they took it, they were cured. That is the their purpose and that is their use.

And (in my humble opinion) that is what much of Buddhisim "means"

[CuriousGeorge77]

I was reading someone who introduced an interesting concept to me regarding Deities in Buddhism. This is that that Deity worship can have a place in promoting eventual enlightenment in how a Deity is thought to be the manifestation of this or that.

Take an anger god, for example. If you are believe in an anger God than you start to observe and be aware of the idea of anger, as start to observe what happens. You may think of what you do as appeasing the anger god and pissing it off at first, but then the reality of the above quote

I manged to speak to the head monk and asked why all this 'hocus pocus' was allowed within the temple ? His reply was in the form of an analogy, i.e. That wasn't a problem as they (soothsayers) had the "weak beer" , "but Buddhism has the strong whisky".

kicks in and eventually people are led onto the correct path. (I guess its the below quote now. Wait... cr@p .) It might not be the most direct route, nor for everyone, but it is a way that ought to be respected. I found that to be quite interesting and has put my own thinking regarding the supernatural in another light.

[Simon255]

The life experience is a phantasmagoria (for want of a better word) and is a reflection. The amulets (when they work) program the reflection to behave in a different way. Same a voodoo. Deities are often used, or requested.

[fabianfred]

If you want to understand the causes you have made in the past *, look at the effects as they are manifested in the present. And if you wish to know what results will appear in the future, look at the causes you are making now.

* Of course reference to the past here means in this life.

....why ..of course.????....why not past lives?

[markwhite]

Do they possess power to protect or bring wealth or love or etc.....?

No, but belief does.

[CuriousGeorge77]

Belief does, but, like the monk said, it is weak beer compared to the strong whiskey of truth...

[EnqueaIstarion]

Many things have power that people do not see, as they have forgotten how to look. Magic to one is science or knowledge to another. Amulets go back further than Budhism.

[Brucenkhamen]

Many things have power that people do not see, as they have forgotten how to look.

For example?

[Aries74]

My girlfriend is converting me to buddhism. For the past five years I have been headed in that direction and it's nice to finally have a guide.....Now for my question:

I notice in Thailand that people wear buddha amulets. Do they possess power to protect or bring wealth or love or etc.....?

I though our future/Karma is determined based on our actions in our current and past lives and that nothing can intercede/alter that direction which we have chose/is a result of our actions .

AGAIN I'm only a beginner, any insight on this mystic side of buddhism would be appreciated including links to website that discuss this.....

Curtis

I was born to believed in buddhism. Religious is a tough subject. I don't want to say too much, people will hate me for it.

When I was young my parents had me ware the amulet, the amulets are usually blessed by the monk for good luck and protection. When I was a little kid people even told me that it can protect you from bullet. One time my dad had to lectured me when I put the amulet in my pants pocket, it could only be in high places. Now that I am a lot older, its about as good as santa claus, or harry potter. If that was true, most thais would be rich by now.

If my family or relatives know I said this I'll be in big trouble.

[jamesc2000]

I was born to believed in buddhism. Religious is a tough subject. I don't want to say too much, people will hate me for it.

When I was young my parents had me ware the amulet, the amulets are usually blessed by the monk for good luck and protection. When I was a little kid people even told me that it can protect you from bullet. One time my dad had to lectured me when I put the amulet in my pants pocket, it could only be in high places. Now that I am a lot older, its about as good as santa claus, or harry potter. If that was true, most thais would be rich by now.

If my family or relatives know I said this I'll be in big trouble.

Hehe! Take the amulet for what it really is - a representation of your parents love for you that they want the best of luck and protection for you.

Off course it will not stop a bullet or even make you win the lottery and if it does let you win the lottery, can you please lend me the amulet for a short while!

Keeping the amulet high also shows how much respect your dad has for Buddhism and it also shows how much he loves you that he gave you what he perceives as such a valuable gift.

As for Buddhism, the true beauty of this science is that you don’t have to believe anything you don’t want to and you can test for yourself anything you have been taught.

I learn from this forum about “regular” Buddhism but that’s not the important part. Just home in on the best bits.

I cannot say for sure as I am not an expert on Buddhism but I think Buddha’s wish is for the end of suffering for everyone and everyone to have fulfilling and happy lives.

If I have missed the point or anyone has something to add or correct, please feel free to post.

[thaiclan]

I explored Buddhism "slightly" last year. I found it rather confusing and contradictory and definitly yet another "convenient" religion in the world. However I have since read a book "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle. It is hands down the best spirituality book I have ever read, and it has helped me understand the basis of all the major religions and belief systems in the world. I thoroughly recommend it to anyone if they are looking for a clear and conscise guide to achieving enlightenment. That is not to say it is easy to achieve but I feel this book describes enlightenment/salvation/nirvana far better than any other scripture or writings.

"Know Thyself" is broken down to explain exactly what that means, as in behind the "I" which is purely the ego lies the source of our true selves.

[jamesc2000]

Thank you for the tip on a good read. Anyone that can write a clear and concise guide to achieving enlightenment is quite an achievement!

I know so little about Buddhism that I don’t know enough to find it confusing or contradictory yet.

But I do know the beauty of Buddhism is that you don’t have to believe any beliefs you don’t agree with but you have the freedom to test any beliefs you like.

Maybe because of this that you don’t have to believe any beliefs you don’t want to means that Buddhism does not qualify as a religion.

Maybe that makes Buddhism a science that you can test for yourself and if you find any beliefs not to be true, you are free to throw it away!

as in behind the "I" which is purely the ego lies the source of our true selves.

and leave open the posibility of the non self too!

[IMChris]

I explored Buddhism "slightly" last year. I found it rather confusing and contradictory and definitly yet another "convenient" religion in the world

. However I have since read a book "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle. It is hands down the best spirituality book I have ever read, and it has helped me

understand the basis of all the major religions and belief systems in the world

. I thoroughly recommend it to anyone if they are looking for a clear and conscise guide to achieving enlightenment. That is not to say it is easy to achieve but I feel this book describes enlightenment/salvation/nirvana far better than any other scripture or writings.

"Know Thyself" is broken down to explain exactly what that means, as in behind the "I" which is purely the ego lies the source of our true selves.

Thaiclan..........frist Buddhism is not a religion nor does it have to do with spiritualty. Uh .. So you found it "confusing and contradictory", what book did you read?

Maybe some of us can help you with some of the confusing parts.

[Brucenkhamen]

If my family or relatives know I said this I'll be in big trouble.

Good on you for thinking for yourself and coming to understand the truth of it.

Sadhu Sadhu.

[thaiclan]

Thanks for the offer but its okay I have the understanding now.xx

[Aries74]

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Monks-39woo...ne39.3842881.jp

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...05_monks05.html

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showAr...cleID=206902124

[Jandajoy]

My girlfriend is converting me to buddhism. For the past five years I have been headed in that direction and it's nice to finally have a guide.....Now for my question:

I notice in Thailand that people wear buddha amulets. Do they possess power to protect or bring wealth or love or etc.....?

I though our future/Karma is determined based on our actions in our current and past lives and that nothing can intercede/alter that direction which we have chose/is a result of our actions .

AGAIN I'm only a beginner, any insight on this mystic side of buddhism would be appreciated including links to website that discuss this.....

Curtis

YES THEY DO

[Jandajoy]

The life experience is a phantasmagoria (for want of a better word) and is a reflection. The amulets (when they work) program the reflection to behave in a different way. Same a voodoo. Deities are often used, or requested.

How do you know when they work?

[Jandajoy]

I was born to believed in buddhism. Religious is a tough subject. I don't want to say too much, people will hate me for it.

When I was young my parents had me ware the amulet, the amulets are usually blessed by the monk for good luck and protection. When I was a little kid people even told me that it can protect you from bullet. One time my dad had to lectured me when I put the amulet in my pants pocket, it could only be in high places. Now that I am a lot older, its about as good as santa claus, or harry potter. If that was true, most thais would be rich by now.

If my family or relatives know I said this I'll be in big trouble.

Hehe! Take the amulet for what it really is - a representation of your parents love for you that they want the best of luck and protection for you.

Off course it will not stop a bullet or even make you win the lottery and if it does let you win the lottery, can you please lend me the amulet for a short while!

Keeping the amulet high also shows how much respect your dad has for Buddhism and it also shows how much he loves you that he gave you what he perceives as such a valuable gift.

As for Buddhism, the true beauty of this science is that you don't have to believe anything you don't want to and you can test for yourself anything you have been taught.

I learn from this forum about "regular" Buddhism but that's not the important part. Just home in on the best bits.

I cannot say for sure as I am not an expert on Buddhism but I think Buddha's wish is for the end of suffering for everyone and everyone to have fulfilling and happy lives.

If I have missed the point or anyone has something to add or correct, please feel free to post.

This is good. Surely the essence is what you make it.

[Simon255]

The life experience is a phantasmagoria (for want of a better word) and is a reflection. The amulets (when they work) program the reflection to behave in a different way. Same a voodoo. Deities are often used, or requested.

How do you know when they work?

Quite subjective on the basic level and not obvious usually. There is a science behind it but it is not for the faint hearted. If you make a study of shamanism, tantrism or magick. Try to appreciate the state of universal consciousness then some can affect this state with various methods.

[geriatrickid]

Where can I get some powerful amulets that will cure the masses? I'd like to substitute them for those that that some people are wearing before they come rolling in on a gurney, dead. I reckon the amulets they were wearing must have been defective. Maybe they were knockoffs from China.

Thanks.

[Brucenkhamen]

Quite subjective on the basic level and not obvious usually. There is a science behind it but it is not for the faint hearted. If you make a study of shamanism, tantrism or magick. Try to appreciate the state of universal consciousness then some can affect this state with various methods.

So the question arises... why bother?

[Simon255]

Quite subjective on the basic level and not obvious usually. There is a science behind it but it is not for the faint hearted. If you make a study of shamanism, tantrism or magick. Try to appreciate the state of universal consciousness then some can affect this state with various methods.

So the question arises... why bother?

Everyone has a passion. Yours might be painting. Each passion will probably be tested out. Each individual should make there own choices about what they do. The universe is limitless, all limitations come from a lack of understanding truth. If you want to learn more about this kind of thing from a Buddhist perspective, you might look at Vajrayana and the supporting tantras.

[Brucenkhamen]

Everyone has a passion. Yours might be painting. Each passion will probably be tested out. Each individual should make there own choices about what they do. The universe is limitless, all limitations come from a lack of understanding truth. If you want to learn more about this kind of thing from a Buddhist perspective, you might look at Vajrayana and the supporting tantras.

Yes but what's it in aid of?

In terms of the four noble truths and the noble eightfold path where does it get you?

Following your passion sounds kind of fun, but it sounds more like a spritual dead end to me, a distraction from what the Buddha would have you do, remember the handful of leaves.

If you understand the limitlessness of the universe but still don't understand your own heart you've got nothing, other than perhaps interesting topics to discuss at cocktail parties.

[Simon255]

Everyone has a passion. Yours might be painting. Each passion will probably be tested out. Each individual should make there own choices about what they do. The universe is limitless, all limitations come from a lack of understanding truth. If you want to learn more about this kind of thing from a Buddhist perspective, you might look at Vajrayana and the supporting tantras.

Yes but what's it in aid of?

In terms of the four noble truths and the noble eightfold path where does it get you?

Following your passion sounds kind of fun, but it sounds more like a spritual dead end to me, a distraction from what the Buddha would have you do, remember the handful of leaves.

If you understand the limitlessness of the universe but still don't understand your own heart you've got nothing, other than perhaps interesting topics to discuss at cocktail parties.

Following Buddhas perfected teachings (if thats what you do) is a passion. It will unfold and expose you to many things over many lifetimes, some of which will be supernatural (if you are affected by it or let it pass, we dont need to discuss here). At that time if you choose to study it scientifically you wont need to ask questions about it. There is much that Buddha chose not to talk about, that does not mean those subjects do not affect many people, directly or indirectly.

Whats it in aid of is the wrong question. All activity in each individuals field of awareness is relavent to them. Amulets work with subtle energies which modern science chooses not to explore, except perhaps a little in quantum physics. It is common currency in many ancient and occult arenas.

[BigSnake]

I don't think so. However if you believe all power to you.

[Brucenkhamen]

Amulets work with subtle energies which modern science chooses not to explore, except perhaps a little in quantum physics.

I'm sorry but statements like this are meaningless unless you have proof.

So lets have the proof then.

It is common currency in many ancient and occult arenas.

Hardly a ringing endorsement.