More Than One Wife

[zaza]

He's not a Muslim Zaza he's a Thai and I'm not in a position to give advice here I can only symphasize not emphasize.

From what I gather from her today he wants to set this 'other woman' up and marry her.My query was if this was legal.Obviously not.I feel for my friend but can't get anymore involved,will see what happens and will update.Nasty situation for her to be in.

I did notice the fact he is not Muslim from your previous post .

I was just trying to imitate the typical stereotyping misconception of labeling all for the deed of a few;

or adapting the funny logic of (I can do NO wrong but others can) .

[sriracha john]

Infidelity in the west is nearly always done behind the other partners back.

Or wide open and willingly by both husbands and wives in large partner-swapping parties and get-togethers.

Pretty much a distinctly Western nuance...

I'm from the west, but my family, or other families that I know, do not seem to have the lifestyle which you seem to be used to.

I'm from the east, but my family, or other families that I know, do not seem to have the lifestyle which most of the members think it is the typical pattern for Muslims' men to have more than one wife.

Cheers!

Exactly the point of my post... echoing virin's points as well...

and although mellow misses it... he also misses that my post wasn't one based on personal experiences, just that it's rampantly advertised and unless he's somehow managed to miss all Western references and ads for "swinging" it's difficult that someone would be that sheltered and unaware.

[invalidusername]

Obviously we are losing something in translation

In English the word is called 'divorce with alimony payments and occasional sex'

in Thai it translates directly as 'mia noi'

do not be confused by misleading translations.

btw...it is not proper to be freinds with another mans wife unless you plan sexing her up. Just because he has another girlfirend, doesn't mean that he will take kindly to you speaking to his big wife. Either steal her or get out of the picture. There is no middle ground of 'i'm just helping' or 'we are just freinds'

[Momo8]

Invalidusername that's out of the question since I'm a woman with no lesbian inclinations lol, she's going through a pretty rough time and needs moral support has a young child also so this is not an easy thing for her to accept.She mentioned earlier she was going to talk to her big sister who is also in a crazy relationship and is a 'second wife' I hope it works out for her.The big sister has no problems apparantly with her arrangement as that guy is 'rich'.My friend is not so hard call.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Momo8

[oevna]

...

Since you friend is legally married then the new wife will be the Mia Noi (it is again telling that the Thais have a specific term for this kind of arrangement).

...

You mean like the way English has the words concubine, mistress, and polygamy?

I would be surprised if there was a language that didn't have a word for that.

[oevna]

Yes it was registered in Songklah I was at the wedding.She is from a good Thai family and she loves her husband that much I know.I guess I shouldn't be scandalised but she's at a loss at what do and divorce is out of the question.Loss of face and all that.The 'new' wife is much younger than he is and no job while my friend Air has been supporting his family and theirs through her university job.

He's adamant about this course of action suggesting he spend 3 days with her and 4 days with the other and swap every month.I am no authority with this but have heard of it happening so any advice many thanks.

That's pretty ungrateful of the husband, especially considering that your friend Air has been supporting him and his family financially. The way I see it, she has some power in this situation. She needs to tell him how she feels about this, and it sounds like she is in a good position to do so.

[Momo8]

Air is of the traditional good Thai girl mould.This is so out of the blue for her as her family paid for her to do her Master's degree and supported him to start a business.She has an older sister who is a mia noi but she has been blackballed by other family members.

Divorce is out of the question for her I think so no idea what will happen next.Thanxxx all I'll keep you posted it is a weird situation.

[0Mix1up]

just wondering if a Thai man can do this. and get away with it.

Depends on the Thai wife........

AM Archive - Saturday, 11 March , 2000 00:00:00

Reporter: Ginny Stein

COMPERE: As the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention, and nowhere more so than in Thailand where an international reputation has been built on the fine art of penis re-attachment. Twenty years ago, the crime of penicide came to public attention in Thailand with the report of an angry wife cutting off the penis of her philandering husband and feeding it to her ducks. It's an act that has now become widespread among Thai women seeking revenge against their unfaithful partners.

Reporting from Bangkok's Yani (Yanhee) hospital - Ginny Stein:

GINNY STEIN: Thailand's leading penis re-attachment team has performed more than 30 surgical successes over the past two decades. It's led to other teams attempting to emulate their achievements. Dr Suthep Warapthomgrong from Bankok's Yani Hospital is a relative newcomer. He has sympathy for his patients.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] They hurt a lot, not just physically, but mentally. The penis represents their manhood. They lose confidence if they lose it.

GINNY STEIN: In this hospital, patients are often faced with two choices, penis re-attachment, or if that fails, penis reconstruction.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] We'll always try to re-attach it first. But sometimes that's not possible. If it's left too long before the victim comes to see us or if the piece isn't kept properly of if what's left is too short to re-attach.

GINNY STEIN: Forty-two-year-old policeman Songphong Nammwan has come back to hospital for a check-up. His wife was his attacker. She struck while he was sleeping.

SONGPHONG NAMMWAN: [Translated] As a men we consider the penis as the highlight of our lives. If we lose it, it means we die while living.

GINNY STEIN: Songphong's wife thought long and hard about her act of revenge, carried out one night after her husband arrived home drunk. She says the reason was simple - she could no longer accept her husband's belief that it was natural for him to have more than one woman.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: [Translated] Nobody can understand if they [inaudible] in my situation. He promised to list that woman but he didn't keep his word. We have been together for 20 years, and suddenly he wanted to bring another woman into our family. No woman can accept that.

GINNY STEIN: Thai men and women are increasingly at odds over an ages old custom of Thai men keeping a second or minor wife. While many Thai men view it as their right to have more than one woman or wife, that's not the view of most women.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: [Translated] I just thought that it wouldn't matter to me if he didn't have a penny. It was because he has the pennies that he enjoys sleeping around. We doubt it because they're together.

GINNY STEIN: Dr Suthep says all things considered, his patient is a lucky man. Re-attachment was not an option, as his wife had thrown his penis into a sewer. But reconstruction through a combination of skin, muscle and vein grafts and a silicone implant remains possible.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] He was lucky to have some part of it left. Some cases are worse, where the cut's too close to the pubic bone and there's no part left to re-attach the new penis to.

GINNY STEIN: Songphong and his wife are back together. His minor wife has moved on. He says he and his wife love each other much more than before, that his playboy days are over.

SONGPHONG NAMMWAN: [Translated] People don't really understand the cause of this, but between us it is nothing. It is a small matter. It is better than being killed.

www.abc.net.au/am/stories/s109598.htm

SBK .........Thank you for the giggles in our office now to read this article . (abt 9 women staff are fixing their eyes on the screen now and more will join soon, I can hardly type ........ )

My guess is we wouldn't be laughing at female genital mutilation, would we?

[zaza]

just wondering if a Thai man can do this. and get away with it.

Depends on the Thai wife........

AM Archive - Saturday, 11 March , 2000 00:00:00

Reporter: Ginny Stein

COMPERE: As the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention, and nowhere more so than in Thailand where an international reputation has been built on the fine art of penis re-attachment. Twenty years ago, the crime of penicide came to public attention in Thailand with the report of an angry wife cutting off the penis of her philandering husband and feeding it to her ducks. It's an act that has now become widespread among Thai women seeking revenge against their unfaithful partners.

Reporting from Bangkok's Yani (Yanhee) hospital - Ginny Stein:

GINNY STEIN: Thailand's leading penis re-attachment team has performed more than 30 surgical successes over the past two decades. It's led to other teams attempting to emulate their achievements. Dr Suthep Warapthomgrong from Bankok's Yani Hospital is a relative newcomer. He has sympathy for his patients.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] They hurt a lot, not just physically, but mentally. The penis represents their manhood. They lose confidence if they lose it.

GINNY STEIN: In this hospital, patients are often faced with two choices, penis re-attachment, or if that fails, penis reconstruction.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] We'll always try to re-attach it first. But sometimes that's not possible. If it's left too long before the victim comes to see us or if the piece isn't kept properly of if what's left is too short to re-attach.

GINNY STEIN: Forty-two-year-old policeman Songphong Nammwan has come back to hospital for a check-up. His wife was his attacker. She struck while he was sleeping.

SONGPHONG NAMMWAN: [Translated] As a men we consider the penis as the highlight of our lives. If we lose it, it means we die while living.

GINNY STEIN: Songphong's wife thought long and hard about her act of revenge, carried out one night after her husband arrived home drunk. She says the reason was simple - she could no longer accept her husband's belief that it was natural for him to have more than one woman.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: [Translated] Nobody can understand if they [inaudible] in my situation. He promised to list that woman but he didn't keep his word. We have been together for 20 years, and suddenly he wanted to bring another woman into our family. No woman can accept that.

GINNY STEIN: Thai men and women are increasingly at odds over an ages old custom of Thai men keeping a second or minor wife. While many Thai men view it as their right to have more than one woman or wife, that's not the view of most women.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: [Translated] I just thought that it wouldn't matter to me if he didn't have a penny. It was because he has the pennies that he enjoys sleeping around. We doubt it because they're together.

GINNY STEIN: Dr Suthep says all things considered, his patient is a lucky man. Re-attachment was not an option, as his wife had thrown his penis into a sewer. But reconstruction through a combination of skin, muscle and vein grafts and a silicone implant remains possible.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] He was lucky to have some part of it left. Some cases are worse, where the cut's too close to the pubic bone and there's no part left to re-attach the new penis to.

GINNY STEIN: Songphong and his wife are back together. His minor wife has moved on. He says he and his wife love each other much more than before, that his playboy days are over.

SONGPHONG NAMMWAN: [Translated] People don't really understand the cause of this, but between us it is nothing. It is a small matter. It is better than being killed.

www.abc.net.au/am/stories/s109598.htm

SBK .........Thank you for the giggles in our office now to read this article . (abt 9 women staff are fixing their eyes on the screen now and more will join soon, I can hardly type ........ )

My guess is we wouldn't be laughing at female genital mutilation, would we?

There are couple of reasons they were laughing abt:

1-all of them do believe in "feeding the duck" penalty,

2-ask any Thai what is that hospital name means if it was mis-pronounced by a "falang"

and

3-they are somehow involved in that (plastic-reconstructive) surgery field!So it was more like the thrill of your achievements being mentioned in a newspaper .

[invalidusername]

Invalidusername that's out of the question since I'm a woman with no lesbian inclinations lol, she's going through a pretty rough time and needs moral support has a young child also so this is not an easy thing for her to accept.She mentioned earlier she was going to talk to her big sister who is also in a crazy relationship and is a 'second wife' I hope it works out for her.The big sister has no problems apparantly with her arrangement as that guy is 'rich'.My friend is not so hard call.

My apologizes - I did not realize you were female.

but the gist of the statement remains the same. if you really want to help your friend, you will have to step forward and more or less take her away from him and his support until she finds another way.

[LaoPo]

Bump...

Any news Momo8 about your gf ?

Laopo

[jstumbo]

I shouldn't be scandalised but she's at a loss at what do and divorce is out of the question.Loss of face and all that.

Having your husband take on a second wife is results in less loss of face compared to divorcing the bastard? I would think that any woman that would put up with this would be saying that she is worthless and has to do whatever her husband wants her to do.

[jstumbo]

Zaza,

I dont think that you are telling us anything new.

The big difference in Thai society is that men's cheating is very much more open.

They do the same thing in China. Most successful business men have mistresses that they setup a home for. My wife has two sisters, both are married to lawyers that are very successful. Both have mistrisses. Both wives know about the mistress, and it is ok, as long as they take care of the wife and their child. Even my wife's parents know and they do not have a problem with it because they take good care financially of their daughters.

[jstumbo]

My guess is we wouldn't be laughing at female genital mutilation, would we?

I have to agree here. Would people be laughing about the woman that had her genitals mutilated because she was cheating on her husband? Would people say that it served her right and she got what she deserved?

[spasticated]

<br />Yes it was registered in Songklah I was at the wedding.She is from a good Thai family and she loves her husband that much I know.I guess I shouldn't be scandalised but she's at a loss at what do and divorce is out of the question.Loss of face and all that.The 'new' wife is much younger than he is and no job while my friend Air has been supporting his family and theirs through her university job.<br /><br />He's adamant about this course of action suggesting he spend 3 days with her and 4 days with the other and swap every month.I am no authority with this but have heard of it happening so any advice many thanks.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I suggest she forgets the loss of face complerily my wife doesnt follow this rubbish, then say she will accept at least 50% of everything and he can visit his kids 1 time per month. I wonder why many Thai women look for Farang husbands , this it seems IS quite prevalent here and many actually do want a husband they love rather then a money machine.

[spasticated]

<br />

To a farang this practice obviously wouldn't happen .

<br /> Who said that this practice is only linked to Thais or other races??<br />Who told you that (Falang= westerners) do not practice this too?<br />I know and had heard many cases of different men from different origins doing the same but with a bit different scenarios.<br />One English gentleman have a (legal) married English wife with sons in UK , (Amphor) Thai wife here in Bkk with a son and (mistresses) here and there as his favorite pass time.<br />Other close work-mate he is a very hi-so (Farang= Swiss) he is too loyal to his first wife but he'd managed to keep a permanent (mia noi) in another city and go for the typical (business) trips.<br />Other one is just being so ultra faithful to his first wife so he always go with (gigs) . <img src="style_emoticons/default/dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="<_<" border="0" alt="dry.gif" /> <br /><font size="4"><b><br /><font size="2">It is not the place nor the <u>gender</u> nor the race nor the religion you are from that decide who and how you act ; IT IS YOU AND ONLY YOU !</font><br /><br /><font size="2">Kindly see this report and then :JUDGE by yourself!<br /><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?xml=/portal/2008/01/21/ftfaithful121.xml" target="_blank">Infidelity</a><br /><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml;j?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/portal/2008/01/22/ftfaithful122.xml" target="_blank">Cheating keeps me happy!</a><br /><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml;j?view=DETAILS&grid=A1YourView&xml=/portal/2008/01/23/ftinfidelity123.xml" target="_blank">Wake up call!</a><br /><br />I wish you could read them thoroughly and then share with us your honest opinion if it is possible.<br />Best Regards.<br />Zaza<br /></font></b></font><br />

<br /><br /><br />

I would say if you asked 1000 uk people if it was acceptable to do this it would be a high majority no vote but in Thailand it is considered more acceptable it doesnt mean it doesnt happen in the uk but its not that common. Yes people get divorced but then do not spend 3 days with one and 4 with the other. Stinks of male dominance to me.

[spasticated]

<br />

<b>Yes it was registered in Songklah I was at the wedding</b>.She is from a good Thai family and she loves her husband that much I know.I guess I shouldn't be scandalised but she's at a loss at what do and divorce is out of the question.Loss of face and all that.The 'new' wife is much younger than he is and no job while my friend Air has been supporting his family and theirs through her university job.<br /><br />He's adamant about this course of action suggesting he spend 3 days with her and 4 days with the other and swap every month.I am no authority with this but have heard of it happening so any advice many thanks.

<br /><br />If it was in Songhkla there's a good possibility the guy is Muslim...and 'entitled', according to his religion, to marry more than one woman... <img src="style_emoticons/default/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> <br /><br /><font color="#0000FF">LaoPo</font><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

How "convenient" for him and do muslim women get to marry more than 1 husband too? or is there another section in muslim religion which states the man may beat his wife to death if she does this?

[spasticated]

<br />My understanding is that the only way a Muslim man can have more than one wife is if the wife agrees to it. <br /><br />I have known many women whose husband's have had multiple "wives". Some mind, some don't. <br /><br />If it were me (and I asked my Thai staff this question too, they had the same response btw) Since she is supporting him and his family, tell him he is free to have as many wives as he wants but he gets no money, and neither does his family. She can kick him out or not, but don't give him or his family one penny. Tell him his new mia noi can get a job and take care of him and his family. She will lose face with him having a mia noi regardless of divorce or not. So why not do it with a bit of dignity and let him loose face instead?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I would add that I'd keep my legs firmly SHUT too!!

[wolfmanjack]

It is not legally allowed to have 2 wives in thailand & beleive (someone correct me if I am wrong) but she could clean him out of all assets & sue the other women for this infidelity.

I recall there exists a law where she could get financial compensation from the other women as she has effectively stolen her husband. I will try to find the threads from the past where it was mentioned.

IMO, sbk has the right idea, it would also be in your freinds interest to speak with a lawyer (but not one near her town) to get a full run down of her legal rights.

The problem is, if he is adament about having a mia noi & she is adament about not divorcing him then he really does have the upper hand as she will be the one losing out, not him.

I posted about the law that allows a person to sue their spouse and the person they are cheating with in a thread about my mother in law. She just won her case and was awarded the house and the land that her husband and mia noi are living in. She also was awarded 190,000 baht to be paid over 6 years.

[Eric1949]

I had a rather upsetting phonecall from my Thai friend today saying her Thai husband point blanc told her he will shortly be marrying another girl.

I guess this is allowed in Thailand and has to do with money etc. and the guy's ability to keep both women.My friend has a three year old son with this man and they have various commitments such as car/house loans and here he is planning to get married again.To a farang this practice obviouly wouldn't happen but my friend is highly distressed sayin the hubby is planning on staying with her for three days in the week the other wife for four,no idea what to advise her do do as I'm not living in Thailand anymore.Even if I was I wouldn't know how common is this pratice.

I have another friend who is Fillipina who had a Thai husband and they divorced when he found another wife and had another child.How prevalent and acceptable is this practive anyway?Any advice here from all? I'm at a loss.

My ex's eldest brother has 2 wives, they are sisters!!!. It is probably part of the rich Thai culture that we all love so much.

[farang prince]

One Thai man with two wives = 1 wife being betrayed and jealous = 1 gun +1 bullet = quickie divorce.

Edited March 16, 2008 by farang prince

[bina]

you all forget that 'marriage' in thailand can be just the ceremony in the village or in a wat w/o registering in the amphur... i have a friend that 'married' in the amphur with his brother's wife (the brother is married by buddhist ceremony only) so that he could claim he was married in order to get a work visa for america.... for them, it was just paper work.

i recently got a phone call from a friend that is the mia noi of a worker i knew from here (they have since returned to thailand) , they are now 'married' by ceremony only; he has a wife (amphur marriage)and kids, he spends time between the two of them. his wife isnt thrilled but preferred this then divorce (he supports them, big house, school, blablablba... also, they (husband and wife) are both from the same village so she cant up and move somehwere else to start out new again at marrying etc. so its not that she gave permission, but she goes along with the status quo. and she and hubby were separated by distance for close to 10 ys as he worked overseas - with three home visits of a month each time. the mia noi is from farther north, now working in bangkok.

and i know of other examples. of course, these are all issan village people and not bangkok hi/so types but with or w/o consent it does seem to still be alive and kicking.

oh, and btw, the mia noi friend of mine, she's not a pretty young thing, but older, fun, intelligent , with some uni, no kids (she wanted a kid by him, but is too old i guess)... also very lao.... its real love. i suspect the original wife was a parental setup when he was very young.... they grew up together practically as brother and sister.

slightly off topic but gives a different perspective to things... as usual..

bina

israel

[Momo8]

No new updates just an e-mail saying she was going to stay with her mother for a while and she doesn't want to talk about it.

I guess she needs some space to sort things out about it all,so I didn't pressure her with questions.I'm not sure what she is going to do as she's a very traditional Thai and actually any advice I can give would come from a Western perspective.

[muhammad10280]

Nothing wrong with multiple wives, if the man can manage it and keep everything in harmony, God willing. The Prophet had many wives, it is acceptable in the culture I was born, and from my perspective.

[pop_corn]

Well, I really can't understand why should a guy want 2, 3 or 4... if having 1 is already work enough!

[muhammad10280]

Well, I really can't understand why should a guy want 2, 3 or 4... if having 1 is already work enough!

It is about working smarter not harder, as long as they know the boundaries and sticking with them. Then can live in harmony.

[jstumbo]

I think having multiple wives would only work in a society where the husband has all the power, makes all the rules and is the ultimate head of the family where the wife will not question his decisions.

I know that my wife has all sorts of ideas on what I should do and if I disagree and refuse to do what she wants me to do, it can lead to arguments. I couldn't imagine if I had 4 wives, all with different ideas on what I should do and how I should do it. Seems like I would always have at least one or two upset with me.

Edited March 22, 2008 by jstumbo

[MiG16]

Nothing wrong with multiple wives, if the man can manage it and keep everything in harmony, God willing. The Prophet had many wives, it is acceptable in the culture I was born, and from my perspective.

havent read the OP, nor the rest of the thread...but had to comment on this particular one.

to my understanding of the culture (more the religion) you refer to.... a man is allowed to take on up to a max of 4wives ON CONDITION THAT HE CAN PROvIDE FOR EACH OF THEM EQUALLY, and that the wives agree to it.

often the wives dont have much of a say, but based on that first condition alone, I believe men in the particular culture (religion) do not have automatic rights to have more than 1 wife. it is almost impossible to provide for and treat all wives equally cos this is not just about financial equality, but also emotional aspect.

plus, again to my understanding, the practice originated and was prevalent in the old days when there were constant wars, men getting killed leaving behind widows and often young children. it then became customary for the brothers to take on the wives of their deceased brothers.

nothing in today's society necessitates that. nothing but for men's taking advantage of past culture and norm, not to mention conveniently leaving out a crucial aspect of what 'the book' allows you to do.

you and other (mostly men) will probably disagree, but this is my reading and understanding into the issue.

[t.s]

No new updates just an e-mail saying she was going to stay with her mother for a while and she doesn't want to talk about it.

I guess she needs some space to sort things out about it all,so I didn't pressure her with questions.I'm not sure what she is going to do as she's a very traditional Thai and actually any advice I can give would come from a Western perspective.

how would she feel if you posted her a link to this and the other topics you have created on the issue?

I know if it were myself involved i would not be thanking you for doing me this favour.

do you feel you are justified discussing the details of a friends life and marriage on a web forum? especially given the situation as you describe it above.

[t.s]

One Thai man with two wives = 1 wife being betrayed and jealous = 1 gun +1 bullet = quickie divorce.

yes if at least one of the wives is katoey. dont think that is the case here