Us Tourist Visa- Is Owning Her Own Land Enough?

[RY12]

So my Thai gf owns land in her own name and by the time she applies for the visa she'll have mostly finished a house thereon (with an address) that may be in our joint name. She also has 8 other Asian countries on her (and my) passport spanning over a couple years (none of which were difficult countries for visas)... anybody think this will be enough for the US tourist visa?

The 6 months of banking records aren't impressive- only around in the 100,000b range and down. English is poor, and employment menial. If it makes any difference, i'm a law student in the US and I'll have had a work stint in Cambodia with either the UN or a children's organization by the time she applies. photographic evidence of the trips is also available.

Well, I know its probably futile, visas are reserved for rich thais only. So let's all give Immigration a big cheer for their oh so consistent habit of kicking innocent thais in the @ss while turning a blind cheek to mexican drug smugglers down in the Valley!

Edited February 21, 2008 by RY12

[RY12]

Dang, no replies in sight... could anyone at least tell me another place where I can find out if owning a house is enough for a US tourist visa?

Edited February 21, 2008 by RY12

[Smokin Joe]

The property ownership carries little wait by itself. My wife has a tourist visa now, but like you, I wanted to bring her over when just a girlfriend and we got two refusals a year apart. She owned land in her name, and had small beauty salon by the time we tried the second time and still not considered.

My advice is get AT LEAST 200k in her bank account and have. Of course large deposits may not help if it is obvious it comes from you.

Her work may be a big plus if it is a legitimate job and she can show records.

Previous travel may help slightly.

You being in the US could hurt her chances as they would assume she might just overstay and live with you.

Her location can hurt her chances if she is in Pattaya, Phuket, or similar. A recent post of a rare tourist visa awarded to a GF indicated that the US interviewer also made moral judgements of the applicant based on location.

Give it a try though. It only costs $100 and you just might get lucky.

[RY12]

The property ownership carries little wait by itself. My wife has a tourist visa now, but like you, I wanted to bring her over when just a girlfriend and we got two refusals a year apart. She owned land in her name, and had small beauty salon by the time we tried the second time and still not considered.

My advice is get AT LEAST 200k in her bank account and have. Of course large deposits may not help if it is obvious it comes from you.

Her work may be a big plus if it is a legitimate job and she can show records.

Previous travel may help slightly.

You being in the US could hurt her chances as they would assume she might just overstay and live with you.

Her location can hurt her chances if she is in Pattaya, Phuket, or similar. A recent post of a rare tourist visa awarded to a GF indicated that the US interviewer also made moral judgements of the applicant based on location.

Give it a try though. It only costs $100 and you just might get lucky.

Thanks So you think the bank money is the second most important thing after property? I haven't found the tourist application online, but is it 6 months of bank records they need? or is that the minimum, the longer the better? I'm going to be applying for this visa in about 8 months, would it work to just open an account now in her name (she currently uses her grandma's) and just throw a bunch of loaned money in there, would the embassy pick up on that if they only look 6 months back?

So I've looked at some previous posts but I'm not clear how the process works, do we just throw as much "evidence of return" we can from any source? E.g. the fact that her grandma is sick and she takes care of her seems like good evidence to come back. Did they say the beauty salon didn't work cause it was a business? maybe a home would roll over better.

And I also assume the student visa route is no easier, probably reserved only for rich university students with good english.

Edited February 22, 2008 by RY12

[jstumbo]

So my Thai gf owns land in her own name and by the time she applies for the visa she'll have mostly finished a house thereon (with an address) that may be in our joint name. She also has 8 other Asian countries on her (and my) passport spanning over a couple years (none of which were difficult countries for visas)... anybody think this will be enough for the US tourist visa?

The 6 months of banking records aren't impressive- only around in the 100,000b range and down. English is poor, and employment menial. If it makes any difference, i'm a law student in the US and I'll have had a work stint in Cambodia with either the UN or a children's organization by the time she applies. photographic evidence of the trips is also available.

Well, I know its probably futile, visas are reserved for rich thais only. So let's all give Immigration a big cheer for their oh so consistent habit of kicking innocent thais in the @ss while turning a blind cheek to mexican drug smugglers down in the Valley!

It is nothing against people that are not rich. Who would be more likely to overstay their visa and work a low paying job under the table? Someone who owns and runs a large company, employing hundreds of people, lives in a mansion, has millions in the bank, drives a mercedes, has a wife and children in Thailand, or a poor farm girl with no family that makes 5K/month and has no potential for any kind of better paying job (I am not saying that this is your gf, just an example of two extremes)?

Personally I would think that just owning property is not going to be enough. She can go to the US and stay, and still own the property. Or it can be sold later on. A problem that you might run into is that they might feel that the plan is that she will come to the US, marry you, adjust status and remain in the US. Thus bypassing everything needed to immigrate to the US. So in this case, having a US boyfriend in a serious relationship would probably hurt her even more.

Sorry to say but, I would think the chances are pretty small.

[Smokin Joe]

Thanks So you think the bank money is the second most important thing after property? I haven't found the tourist application online, but is it 6 months of bank records they need? or is that the minimum, the longer the better? I'm going to be applying for this visa in about 8 months, would it work to just open an account now in her name (she currently uses her grandma's) and just throw a bunch of loaned money in there, would the embassy pick up on that if they only look 6 months back?

So I've looked at some previous posts but I'm not clear how the process works, do we just throw as much "evidence of return" we can from any source? E.g. the fact that her grandma is sick and she takes care of her seems like good evidence to come back. Did they say the beauty salon didn't work cause it was a business? maybe a home would roll over better.

And I also assume the student visa route is no easier, probably reserved only for rich university students with good english.

Point 1 - Rich folks can get visas. None of this applies to them.

Point 2 - If you're married, a TV is easy to get. An Immigrant visa is almost a sure thing, just time consuming.

Point 2 - There are no guidelines for a Tourist Visa. The US Embassy has no rules (available to the public) to follow. It is all based on the opinion of the agent who reviews and/or interviews the person applying. this opinion may be based on the Santa Principle. Is the girl "Naughty" or "Nice".

Point 3 - Property ownership alone means little. Recent large deposits to enhance a bank account are suspect. family ties to Thailand count for nothing, it is assumed by the interviewer that a Thai would abandon kids for a visa. They don't care if Garndma is sick.

Point 4 - A real job with all the requisite paperwork and contact points would be a big plus. A job that did not have pay statements, taxes paid, etc. would count for little or nothing.

Point 5 - If the girl is a girlfriend, vice wife, your being in the US actually hurts her chances. If you were retired and living in Thailand (with the appropriate visa extension ), or you were working here, that would be a big plus.

Your info was sparse, but it sounds like your girls chances are slim. Obviously there is a lot more info available that you can read in old posts. Take all with a grain of salt, dressing nice like an office girl is a good recommendation, slipping a 100 baht bill through the window is not.

Point 6 - BTW, I just finished most of a bottle of "Atomic Ray" rum so my post may be a little garbled. You can see I'm a little cynical about the visa process, but with due cause.

[gunnyd]

Cynical, more like realistic. Typical S.E.Asian that gets a Tourist Visa to USA is over 40, married, has substantial assets in their home country, and at least 7 years of tax statements. All visa applicants are treated by the US State Department are considered immigrants. Your GF will have to convince the consular officer that she will return home. And the decision is quick and can be very arbitrary. Atomic Ray rum huh, if I fell like getting totally pissed my choice of poison is Bacardi 151 rum. GunnyD

[RY12]

Point 2 - If you're married, a TV is easy to get. An Immigrant visa is almost a sure thing, just time consuming.

Point 6 - BTW, I just finished most of a bottle of "Atomic Ray" rum so my post may be a little garbled. You can see I'm a little cynical about the visa process, but with due cause.

Point 2- All I have to do to is be married to her under Thai law or do you mean a US marriage license?

6- Doesn't seem cynical to me, I'm convinced the US embassy has degenerated into a business profiting off ill-informed and overly-optomistic Thais. There's a trillion different ways they could make the TV process more efficient- e.g. why not let the girl put up her property as collateral if she doesn't come back? why not force me, the bf to pay a fine if she doesn't come back? etc. etc. If all they want is to see your wealthy and old, then why don't they just make a uniform requirement... rather than forcing Thais to pay their monthloy salary just to go through some pointless application process? I can't imagine why anyone would defend the embassy's policy, seems a hel_l of a lot better to have a few stray land-owning Thais lingering in the US rather than a orchard full of pennyless Guatemalans in our backyard ( no disrespect).

Edited February 22, 2008 by RY12

[jetjock]

As previous posters mentioned, the issuance of a tourist visa is discretionary based on the total package you present them rather than on hard fast rules. As an example, my friend just tried to get his long time girlfriend a tourist visa to the US. She is 35 years old, has a college degree, has always been a good girl so has a perfect record , has a good job with a big company paying 40,000 Baht a month, owns land and a house in Thailand, has an 8 year old girl from a previous marriage with the only negative being that she only about the equivalent of US $3000. in her bank account. My friend thought it was not going to be any problem especially because she had a good job and her daughter would be staying at home in Thailand while she was visiting the US which would obviously be a case for her returning. Much to his dismay, it was a total shock when she was denied the visa.

For what it is worth, quite a few of my wife's Thai friends have obtained a tourist visa and visited us here in the US. They all had either the equivalent of about $25000. USD in their bank account or else they worked for the Thai government. From what I have observed, I think having a large amount of money in the bank is definitely one of the most important things in the equation that immigration is using to issue tourist visa.

I am editing this to add the following, My friend has now decided to try for the fiance visa (which will be easier) to bring her over to the US. He had planned to marry her anyway but thought he could get a tourist visa more quickly however obviously that plan did not work out for him.

Edited February 22, 2008 by jetjock

[Smokin Joe]

A Thai marriage is legal in the US, you don't need to get a US license, register it at the embass, or redo the marriage in the US.

It has to be the real official marriage though, which is just going to the local govt office and signing the forms, the big ceremony for the families doesn't count.

[ProThaiExpat]

Ry12: Hopefully you are far enough along in law school so you have begun to think like a lawyer and the following will make sense to you.

I have followed all threads on Visas to the U.S. for six years and agree most are turned down. I recently made application for a Visa for my Thai unmarried partner and was sucessful, getting a 10 year multiple entry B2 (Tourist or Business) visa last week in Chiang Mai.

I have read all the Department of State web pages on Visas and most of the websites issuing opinions and directions on how to do it from law firms.

My conclusions are:

The most important issue that must be addressed and emphasized in every thing you do in preparing her "visa package" is the "compelling reasons to return" mandate.

You will also understand the law which compels the interviewer, Department of State Officer, to begin the interview with a mind set that the interviewee will overstay her visa and not return to Thailand. This mindset must be overcome by the interviewee during the interview. The "burden of proof" is on the interviewee to change the mindset of the interviewer.

Thus everything she can present in an organized and persuasive way must be included. The package I prepared was so organized, with the most "compelling reasons to return" at the top ranked in order of what I thought was most important.

By the way, the interviewer looked at every page of my "package" during the interview and so I conclude that your organization of the "package" be persuasive and with interesting photos, maps and related and integrated items included and tabbed. My package went through 8 topics with about 30 or more exhibits.

Use your best legal logic in arranging you "evidence" to support the ultimate conclusion you are trying to generate and carry your burden of proof. The only real out of order item was what I started off with which was the Itinerary and Reason for Trip. Exhibits were attached to each subject matter issue, so in the itinerary for the three week stay was a schedule for a tennis tournament and confirmation of application to play, round trip air plane reservations and bank account showing 10 USD on deposit in Thai bank available through ATM card to pay for the trip. I am not concerned regarding the aging of such an account as clearly one "funds" a travel account from long term savings when the trip is planned. Overnight places to stay and contact numbers and addresses were clearly stated.

The second most persuasive "compelling reason to return" in my view was a six year co-habitation relationship that is economically interdependent. My partner hasn't worked since we met and that is the way we like it. Not a negative, especially when you show in another topic "Overseas travel and return to Thailand". My Thai had lost the Thai passport after the last overseas trip, so I had to establish foreign travel through my visa pages and my declaration, which covered our relationship, overseas travel, joint bank account, etc My declaration was really a sworn statement covering all relevant issues needed to be persuaded.

Won't go on in any further detail but if you want my help, email me at the same screen name at gtalk. [email protected]. I agree with one poster that suggests your biggest negative is your residence in the U.S. and the propensity for your relationship to motivate her to overstay.

You must weigh the factors for and against mentioning your relationship at all in the visa application, does it help or hurt overall.

If the relationship has been longstanding and strong, how about a fiancee visa. I have seen posts recommending that for love relationships, but I have no knowledge or experience in that area.

I spent about 25 hours gathering and compiling the "package" and it included a face page, exhibit list or index, tabls, pictures of anything even remotely relevant, chanotes of properties owned with pictures, vehicles owned with registrations and pictures, etc. Trial attorneys are often referred to as "shotgun" or "laser" in their evidenciary presentation and argument approach and you definitely want to approach this "brief" in a shotgun style as you have no clue what the interviewer will be impressed with so include it all, while paying attention to cumulative evidence so not to bore.

I have helped others in their application process and am impressed on why a lawyer is the best individual to prepare the package due to his trained thought process and paying attention to relevance. Others, of course, can do it well, especially if trained in brochure presentation but doing it in a foreign language seems to me a mountain too high to climb.

Good luck, you will need it.

[calibanjr.]

Ry12: Hopefully you are far enough along in law school so you have begun to think like a lawyer and the following will make sense to you.

I have followed all threads on Visas to the U.S. for six years and agree most are turned down. I recently made application for a Visa for my Thai unmarried partner and was sucessful, getting a 10 year multiple entry B2 (Tourist or Business) visa last week in Chiang Mai.

I have read all the Department of State web pages on Visas and most of the websites issuing opinions and directions on how to do it from law firms.

My conclusions are:

The most important issue that must be addressed and emphasized in every thing you do in preparing her "visa package" is the "compelling reasons to return" mandate.

You will also understand the law which compels the interviewer, Department of State Officer, to begin the interview with a mind set that the interviewee will overstay her visa and not return to Thailand. This mindset must be overcome by the interviewee during the interview. The "burden of proof" is on the interviewee to change the mindset of the interviewer.

Thus everything she can present in an organized and persuasive way must be included. The package I prepared was so organized, with the most "compelling reasons to return" at the top ranked in order of what I thought was most important.

By the way, the interviewer looked at every page of my "package" during the interview and so I conclude that your organization of the "package" be persuasive and with interesting photos, maps and related and integrated items included and tabbed. My package went through 8 topics with about 30 or more exhibits.

Use your best legal logic in arranging you "evidence" to support the ultimate conclusion you are trying to generate and carry your burden of proof. The only real out of order item was what I started off with which was the Itinerary and Reason for Trip. Exhibits were attached to each subject matter issue, so in the itinerary for the three week stay was a schedule for a tennis tournament and confirmation of application to play, round trip air plane reservations and bank account showing 10 USD on deposit in Thai bank available through ATM card to pay for the trip. I am not concerned regarding the aging of such an account as clearly one "funds" a travel account from long term savings when the trip is planned. Overnight places to stay and contact numbers and addresses were clearly stated.

The second most persuasive "compelling reason to return" in my view was a six year co-habitation relationship that is economically interdependent. My partner hasn't worked since we met and that is the way we like it. Not a negative, especially when you show in another topic "Overseas travel and return to Thailand". My Thai had lost the Thai passport after the last overseas trip, so I had to establish foreign travel through my visa pages and my declaration, which covered our relationship, overseas travel, joint bank account, etc My declaration was really a sworn statement covering all relevant issues needed to be persuaded.

Won't go on in any further detail but if you want my help, email me at the same screen name at gtalk. [email protected]. I agree with one poster that suggests your biggest negative is your residence in the U.S. and the propensity for your relationship to motivate her to overstay.

You must weigh the factors for and against mentioning your relationship at all in the visa application, does it help or hurt overall.

If the relationship has been longstanding and strong, how about a fiancee visa. I have seen posts recommending that for love relationships, but I have no knowledge or experience in that area.

I spent about 25 hours gathering and compiling the "package" and it included a face page, exhibit list or index, tabls, pictures of anything even remotely relevant, chanotes of properties owned with pictures, vehicles owned with registrations and pictures, etc. Trial attorneys are often referred to as "shotgun" or "laser" in their evidenciary presentation and argument approach and you definitely want to approach this "brief" in a shotgun style as you have no clue what the interviewer will be impressed with so include it all, while paying attention to cumulative evidence so not to bore.

I have helped others in their application process and am impressed on why a lawyer is the best individual to prepare the package due to his trained thought process and paying attention to relevance. Others, of course, can do it well, especially if trained in brochure presentation but doing it in a foreign language seems to me a mountain too high to climb.

Good luck, you will need it.

I got my wife (just over a year) a ten-year multiple-entry (wish I could get one for Thailand for me!) visa to the U.S., last October. I followed PTExpat's steps, almost exactly. But the bolded part, the interview, was the most important. My wife said the interviewer (30ish guy, Chiang Mai consulate) very briefly looked over my carefully prepared dossier and just discussed her visiting plans at reasonable length, that's it. My wife has land in her name (and plans to build a house, with my, uh, help)and maybe 400k in her own bank account. I think the most important part is that her English is just O.K., but she had a distinctly plausible (even TRUE) visting scenario with a timeline of her future plans in Thailand. While I think the dossier was probably unnecessary (they ignored most of it and handed it back to her pretty quickly, especially my thoughtful ), the preparation for it helped her put together the "lay of the land" in her head and allowed her to tell her story and future plans well.

I guess I'd say that if I were you I'd work on the PTExpat "presentation" plan. The presentation itself may or may not carry weight, depending on the interviewer and probably the particular Consulate that you're applying to, not sure. But it will lay out the relevant assets (land, bank, ties to Thailand, etc.) clearly and at a minimum, the building of the presentation with your girlfriend will help her clarify her life here, the States, and back again and have a better interview.

[RY12]

Point 2 - If you're married, a TV is easy to get. An Immigrant visa is almost a sure thing, just time consuming.

Wait, I've never heard the Tourist visa is "easy" if your married, just how easy do you mean? Calibanjr's story below might be evidence of it:

I got my wife (just over a year) a ten-year multiple-entry (wish I could get one for Thailand for me!) visa to the U.S., last October. I followed PTExpat's steps, almost exactly. But the bolded part, the interview, was the most important. My wife said the interviewer (30ish guy, Chiang Mai consulate) very briefly looked over my carefully prepared dossier and just discussed her visiting plans at reasonable length, that's it. My wife has land in her name (and plans to build a house, with my, uh, help)and maybe 400k in her own bank account. I think the most important part is that her English is just O.K., but she had a distinctly plausible (even TRUE) visting scenario with a timeline of her future plans in Thailand. While I think the dossier was probably unnecessary (they ignored most of it and handed it back to her pretty quickly, especially my thoughtful ), the preparation for it helped her put together the "lay of the land" in her head and allowed her to tell her story and future plans well.

Maybe the reason you got this so easily was SmokinJoe's comment above that it's easier to get the TV if you're married... rather than the good English explanantion you offered? But I don't see how being married proves she's "going to return." So the interview was in English not Thai?

As for me, she's got a house in her name and good documents but I just can't meet the 400k+ "money in the bank" requirement, well actually I could but only by throwing a huge loan in her account and let it sit there until she applies in about 8 months, but from the other posts I've heard the interviewer looks farther back than just 8 months, so they'll see it was a big deposit. I'm thinking of the fiancee visa, but, correct me if I'm wrong, I still have to meet the "capable sponsor" requirement (which I can't cause I'm a student, and my parent's can't know about my girl) and the "proof of the relationship" requirement, which seems frighteningly discretionary like "return to Thailand"

An ominous set of circumstances indeed... perhaps she'll just have to take the long road north from Mexico City...

Won't go on in any further detail but if you want my help, email me at the same screen name at gtalk.

Thanks, I did just that.

Edited February 23, 2008 by RY12

[ProThaiExpat]

Just to keep on track, calibanjr may well be resident in Thailand. If that is the case, clearly his wife has an overriding "compelling reason to return". Thus the brochure may not be as important as if she wasn't married to him, as in my case.

I think all the talk about money in the bank and aging, often discussed in threads, is misleading as the amount of money in the bank is only relevant in the ability of the traveler to pay the expenses of the trip. There is no sponsorship issue in tourist visas to the US, as perhaps there are in other countries. The visa applicant is judged on their own without any outside influence other that if that influence would be "a compelling reason to return" or as in OP's case, a negative, as his residence is the U.S.

Prior foreign travel and return is most persuasive and in my Thais case, the interviewer asked for any old passports showing foreign travel, as you will recall the current passport is virgin. Fortunately there was a old passport going back ten years with European destingations.

The age of the traveler may well be relevant as well. After all, why would a 40 year old Thai with a good life in Thailand want to overstay in the U.S., unless her love interest was there, and work in a Thai restaurant at minimum wage??

[RY12]

Thanks for the continued postings on this admittedly solemn topic

Does anyone know what actually happens if the girl overstays on her Tourist visa in the US? Will a notification or anything be put in my, the boyfriend's, passport account showing I have an outstanding illegal guest in the US? If so, breaking the law like that would prevent me from being a lawyer... seems like a compelling reason for her to return to thailand.

So its fairly clear that the Tourist visa isn't something she's likely to get with conventional evidence, and isn't worth a damning 'rejected' stamp. Has anyone heard of any unique stories where the girl had something other than an obviously monetarily generous boyfriend? she has a famous buddhist monastery filled with farang monks near her home in isaan that has branches in california, maybe she could get set up with them to give talks or something for them... or maybe my internship with the UN in Cambodia will show MY intent to reside in SE Asia in the future as well, which is actually true. but it is correct that a rejected stamp will hurt her chances in the future?

Edited February 23, 2008 by RY12

[ProThaiExpat]

Ry12: I like your reasoning very much. Why would you compromise your career to permit an overstay. However, it is the applicant that is being judged, not you. Certainly, this is a "make weight" argument but you need a similar one for her.

Classically, if she has a great life in Thailand and you can portray that in many ways, then why would she want to remain in the U.S. when those prospects are so much less than what she has in Thailand?

[Governor]

I think the problem is that every US visa official thinks that all Thai women want to go to there for a holiday and never to return to their home country. Not sure why they think that, I am not really sure what they think the great pull of the US is.

[gunnyd]

I think the problem is that every US visa official thinks that all Thai women want to go to there for a holiday and never to return to their home country. Not sure why they think that, I am not really sure what they think the great pull of the US is.

Hmm lets see. 1. Being able to make in a day what took them a month to earn in their country. 2. Total lack of immigration enforcement once you make it inside the borders. The police can not make you show any identification if you are not breaking the law, and even if you get arrested the chances of getting handed over to immigration or next to nil. 3. Freedom from political and social oppression of their home countries. Our army is forbidden to operate in official capacity inside our borders. The police or soldiers don't run around raping women, cutting off limbs, summarily executing people in the streets. 4. Clean drinking water and safe food (for the most part). And many other things that are too numerous to count.

Yes I realize that Western European countries have some of the freedoms of the US and more social programmes than the US, and there area lot of people around the world that don't approve of our freedom to own and use firearms.

But what happens in Western Europe/OZ/Japan and other 1st world countries if you get stopped by the police without the proper papers? You get a one way ticket home and a ban to top it off. The USCIS pretty much ignores the 20+ million illegal aliens that live in the US. I don't think you will find any other Western or 1st world country with the number of illegals inside their borders.

That is why the consular officials consider all visa applications as immigrant applications. They pretty much are the last step to get into the United States, unless you cross the borders or come by ship. An estimated 8-10 million illegals came on legal visas and never left.

Heck Thailand has tougher immigration enforcement than the USA. I don't know of any other county in the world where 2 non-citizens can bear a child inside their borders and automatically get citizenship of that country, except the USA.

Rant over, and to all that player hate on America you'll never change my mind about loving being American. Is America number 1, nope. The right country for me absolutely!

GunnyD

[calibanjr.]

I think the problem is that every US visa official thinks that all Thai women want to go to there for a holiday and never to return to their home country. Not sure why they think that, I am not really sure what they think the great pull of the US is.

Hmm lets see. 1. Being able to make in a day what took them a month to earn in their country. 2. Total lack of immigration enforcement once you make it inside the borders. The police can not make you show any identification if you are not breaking the law, and even if you get arrested the chances of getting handed over to immigration or next to nil. 3. Freedom from political and social oppression of their home countries. Our army is forbidden to operate in official capacity inside our borders. The police or soldiers don't run around raping women, cutting off limbs, summarily executing people in the streets. 4. Clean drinking water and safe food (for the most part). And many other things that are too numerous to count.

Yes I realize that Western European countries have some of the freedoms of the US and more social programmes than the US, and there area lot of people around the world that don't approve of our freedom to own and use firearms.

But what happens in Western Europe/OZ/Japan and other 1st world countries if you get stopped by the police without the proper papers? You get a one way ticket home and a ban to top it off. The USCIS pretty much ignores the 20+ million illegal aliens that live in the US. I don't think you will find any other Western or 1st world country with the number of illegals inside their borders.

That is why the consular officials consider all visa applications as immigrant applications. They pretty much are the last step to get into the United States, unless you cross the borders or come by ship. An estimated 8-10 million illegals came on legal visas and never left.

Heck Thailand has tougher immigration enforcement than the USA. I don't know of any other county in the world where 2 non-citizens can bear a child inside their borders and automatically get citizenship of that country, except the USA.

Rant over, and to all that player hate on America you'll never change my mind about loving being American. Is America number 1, nope. The right country for me absolutely!

GunnyD

Hi Gunny,

I dig some of your points, but if you're going to be a bit pro-patria (U.S.), you really have to have tight grammar/syntax and work on the typos. Too much room for haters, be they trolls or legit. Fact checking is helpful, too. But overall, I feel your rant. As I posted above, I'd love to have my wife's 10 year multiple-entry visa vs. my having to jump through innumerable hoops to do biz here and move millions of baht from the US to Thailand. Don't know where you're from, but I'm from the NEast (like as N and E as it gets in the States) , and if there's an illegal working, if they're found out, odds are they can go on working and live and die a whole life by the time it would make to make it to court/magistrate. I really don't mind it so much that way, but that's me. Anyway, I can back some of your points, just tone is a bit off.

[thaihome]

Point 2 - If you're married, a TV is easy to get. An Immigrant visa is almost a sure thing, just time consuming.

Point 6 - BTW, I just finished most of a bottle of "Atomic Ray" rum so my post may be a little garbled. You can see I'm a little cynical about the visa process, but with due cause.

Point 2- All I have to do to is be married to her under Thai law or do you mean a US marriage license?

6- Doesn't seem cynical to me, I'm convinced the US embassy has degenerated into a business profiting off ill-informed and overly-optomistic Thais. There's a trillion different ways they could make the TV process more efficient- e.g. why not let the girl put up her property as collateral if she doesn't come back? why not force me, the bf to pay a fine if she doesn't come back? etc. etc. If all they want is to see your wealthy and old, then why don't they just make a uniform requirement... rather than forcing Thais to pay their monthloy salary just to go through some pointless application process? I can't imagine why anyone would defend the embassy's policy, seems a hel_l of a lot better to have a few stray land-owning Thais lingering in the US rather than a orchard full of pennyless Guatemalans in our backyard ( no disrespect).

All the things you list as ways to make the tourist visa process more efficient are just not practical. With over 50 million tourists going to US each year, if even 25% go on visas (as opposed to visa exempt given to most westerners) the administration of people putting up collateral or bonds would be a nightmare to say nothing of actually have to foreclose or cash the bonds in a foreign country.

I do know that at times the consulate in Bangkok will put the husband or boy friend’s name on the visa; this is not legally binding, but is put there to inform the officer at the POE of the circumstance of the visa issuance. This was done on the first visa my wife got back in 2001, a 3 month single entry. The 2 subsequent visas (a 5 years, followed by the current 10 year) have not had any notes.

For the 3 applications we simply gave them our passports with long term visas for the country we were resident at the time (2nd applciation was outside Thailand), our marriage certificate, a copy of joint bank account with small balance, and a letter from my employer saying I have long term employment in country and get an annual home leave that my wife is eligible to accompany me on.

If the visa fee is one month salary for you, you probably cannot afford the trip, if some one that lives in the US is sponsoring you, then the chances are great that while in the US, you will get married and apply for change of status. The conflict the consulate faces is once you are in the US, it is perfectly legal to get married and apply for change of status as long as you did not intend to do this at the time you entered. So their job is to try and figure out who will change their mind or is actually intending to stay. Given that, they will always refuse the visa if they are not convinced you will return.

If you live in Thailand, getting a visa for significant other, married or not, is pretty easy. If you don’t live in Thailand, the odds are heavily stacked against you.

TH

[wanderer9020]

I perfectly understand US Consulate officers descretion towards tourist visa . Its a common fact how many illegal immigrants are there in US right now. A friend (she is single in her late 20s , working as chemist with a bank account of almost 50,000 USD 3 years savings was denied tourist visa). Her analysis, is that the officer thinks that she will stay there illegaly, find a man, and work picking up apples.See ,having money doesnt guarantee a visa.On the issue of being single,a friend was invited by motorola chicago for a 2 day job (its like consultancy), was denied just because she is single and no reason to return, .Taking these examples, your gf has a very slim if not zero possibility to be granted that elusive US visa (what the heck,seems US is a heaven for mostly South East Asians, though I beleive Middle Eastern considered it the opposite).

[wanderer9020]

ur best bet, marry her, or take that fiancee visa which I dont think ur qualified as ur just a student right now. In the meantime, read ur law books instead than putting urself how to figure all of these brouhahas.

[gunnyd]

Hi Gunny,

I dig some of your points, but if you're going to be a bit pro-patria (U.S.), you really have to have tight grammar/syntax and work on the typos. Too much room for haters, be they trolls or legit. Fact checking is helpful, too. But overall, I feel your rant. As I posted above, I'd love to have my wife's 10 year multiple-entry visa vs. my having to jump through innumerable hoops to do biz here and move millions of baht from the US to Thailand. Don't know where you're from, but I'm from the NEast (like as N and E as it gets in the States) , and if there's an illegal working, if they're found out, odds are they can go on working and live and die a whole life by the time it would make to make it to court/magistrate. I really don't mind it so much that way, but that's me. Anyway, I can back some of your points, just tone is a bit off.

From Arizona and have lived in California. I try with the spelling and grammar, but frankly I am a self taught hunt and peck typer and my spell check doesn't always catch everything. Plus I get lazy sometimes and don't thoroughly proof read my posts.

As I said before: I won't say that the USA is number 1, but I wouldn't want to be from anywhere else. And unlike some people who bemoan the violence and lack of social programmes in the US, I have actually been around the world save Iran and Antarctica, so I feel I can give a more informed opinion on many subjects.

As for illegal immigration, there are no accurate numbers for the US, just educated guesses. Maybe I should have qualified my stats as such (I thought I did when I said my figures were estimates). It's not like the illegal immigrants are going to line up to be counted. Living in California and Arizona I have seen the illegal immigration situation first hand. I can't blame them for wanting to come to America. I have been to their home countries and would want out too. If the US really wanted to handle the immigration problems they would take the border patrol agents and reassign them to immigration processing. If a S.E. Asians and Latin Americans could legally immigrate to the US in 3-6 months instead of 10-20 years they wouldn't be illegally entering. Then the majority of people sneaking over the borders and in the berths of ships would be criminals and terrorists.

And I always expect to be flamed when I wear my "Stars and Stripes" on my sleeve. I ignore them, knowing that most of them, given the chance, would be happy to be given Resident Alien status in the good ol' US of A

And sometimes it's fun to stir up a good debate on a real issue.

And to be EXTRA patriotic I'll close by saying GOD BLESS AMERICA. Proud defender of my country,

GunnyD

[ProThaiExpat]

I think the problem is that every US visa official thinks that all Thai women want to go to there for a holiday and never to return to their home country. Not sure why they think that, I am not really sure what they think the great pull of the US is.

The answer to your question is in my original post, where I spell out the U.S. Department of State Regulations that require the interviewing officer to assume the girl is going to overstay and the "burden of proof" is on her to persuade him otherwise.

[RY12]

As our prospects vanish further into the horizon , I wonder if I would be more succesful getting the Canadian tourist visa, who seem to give more weight to the bf/husband host's documentation. Not being from Canada might help, as many of u told me it hurts me to be residing in the US for their visa. Currently there's a live Canadian TRV post, I posted the same thing there...

thanks for the posts

[Tinkelbell]

quoted.........And to be EXTRA patriotic I'll close by saying GOD BLESS AMERICA. Proud defender of my country,

GunnyD

.....................................................

GunnyD,

GOD BLESS AMERICA and God bless you too.

I used to live in Miami, Florida, so I can relate how you feel about the illegal aliens.

From a proud American from Thailand.

[thaihome]

I perfectly understand US Consulate officers descretion towards tourist visa . Its a common fact how many illegal immigrants are there in US right now. A friend (she is single in her late 20s , working as chemist with a bank account of almost 50,000 USD 3 years savings was denied tourist visa). Her analysis, is that the officer thinks that she will stay there illegaly, find a man, and work picking up apples.See ,having money doesnt guarantee a visa.On the issue of being single,a friend was invited by motorola chicago for a 2 day job (its like consultancy), was denied just because she is single and no reason to return, .Taking these examples, your gf has a very slim if not zero possibility to be granted that elusive US visa (what the heck,seems US is a heaven for mostly South East Asians, though I beleive Middle Eastern considered it the opposite).

In my office we have sent 4 Thai women this year (2008) to the US with no problem. Sent several last year. One of the them a very attractive 20 something hottie. Last year we sent something like 50 Thais to the US for various training, conferences, etc. Not a single one was rejected for the B2 visa.

Not sure what the problem your friend with the invite from Motorola problem could have had. It certainly was not because she was a young single Thai women. I suspect the application and invite letter was not properly done.

TH

[Governor]

Rant over, and to all that player hate on America you'll never change my mind about loving being American. Is America number 1, nope. The right country for me absolutely!

GunnyD

I certainly don't hate America, far from it. I have been a regular visitor for many years and will continue to do, even Arizona where I have friends, I have brought a house there, and my daughter and my grandchildren live there and have been made very welcome by many Americans in their homes during my many visits, so why should I hate it?

I was just making the point that it would seem that all single Thai visitors are viewed as if they want to give up everything they have worked for at home, to go "apple picking" in the US, I just cannot understand why. I realise that one you are in the US there are no internal borders but if you overstay your visa you will have problems getting back in. I am also aware that it is up to the applicant to prove their intentions, but America has a lot to offer to tourists, and globally advertise the fact, that's why people want to go there.

A couple of years ago I led a team of UK Immigration Officials to the US to look at the workings of US Immigration Detention Centres prior to the award of a contract to the operators to run a Detention Centre in the UK. The ICE (Immigration & Customs Enforcement) manager was proud of the fact that they use drugs to keep detainees under control and to get them on aircraft to be removed from the US. The contractors were as embarrassed as we were shocked and took us to see one of the State Prisons they run, to prove that they can treat human beings with dignity and respect, pointing out that's how ICE wanted to treat people. OK, nothing to do with the thread, but an observation.

[wanderer9020]

thai home>>>

the problem , is she in an expert , not a trainee in motorola, she wil have to work something with motorola engineers ..Maythey afraid, that she will be hired by motorola and will not return back. There was an appeal by motorola lawyers, but they sent the motorola guys instead

[thaihome]

thai home>>>

the problem , is she in an expert , not a trainee in motorola, she wil have to work something with motorola engineers ..Maythey afraid, that she will be hired by motorola and will not return back. There was an appeal by motorola lawyers, but they sent the motorola guys instead

So that was actually an L1 visa (inter company transfer) , not a business/tourist visa (B1/B2) she was rejected for? Or was she going for the H1B? or maybe the O-1 due to her exceptional skills?

We have been sending Thai to the US for years, and have never had a single one rejected, as long as the paperwork was done properly. We use a local legal firm to handle the paperwork.

My point is, I seriously doubt she was rejected because she was single and had no reason to return. I do not doubt she may have been caught up in some sort of bureaucratic bungling if the application was not handled correctly

TH