Massive Police Checkpoint Currently On Sukhumvit

[patsfangr]

I personally think there should be no fines. OK, for minor stuff like no helmet, broken indicator etc. fines for them.

I'd jail those without licenses or insurance and I mean insurance which would pay me back for my shiny new Mercedes if they write it off.

You can't fine them say Bt100,000 because they don't have it. You can lock them up.

Harsh I agree but I see no other alternative as they know they can bribe their way out and if the damage is too great then they assume the other people will have insurance.

Maybe cutting their arms off would be a permanent punishment.

Somehow they have to be educated that they have no right to drive a bike or car and the first responsibility when driving is to have a license and insurance.

By way of clarification, driving a motor vehicle is not a "right". It is a privelege which is earned by learning, the basic operation of the vehicle, and the rules of the road. A driver is then granted a license, and required to continue to obey the laws in order to retain that privelege.

Removing the privelege, and assessing a reasonable fine, is quite adequate as a punishment, regardless of the economic status of the violator. Driving without a license, however, should certainly require that the vehicle be confiscated, with retrieval permitted only by a licensed driver, following the payment of fines for the violation, and for the storage of the vehicle.

Given the fact that this is a civilized, heavily populated country, I believe that the acknowledgement that driving is a privelege, and that safe, orderly traffic should be a priority, are very reasonable. I see nothing unreasonable in any of the penalties I suggest in support of that.

[plasticpig]

Did you used to work in a Wing Nut factory?

[patsfangr]

Did you used to work in a Wing Nut factory?

Yeah, but they fired me. Said I didn't fit in. ...

[barryofthailand]

I am very happy to learn of this action. I only wish that the police would do more of it, and with less obvious setup than a "massive checkpoint".

We all know that the percentage of Thais who are operating motorbikes without licenses, and/or without helmets, is very high. I know that there are some farangs who do this also, but it is a much lower percentage, from what I can see of the helmet issue. (I have no idea about the licenses, of course.)

I'd like to see totally random checkpoints set up frequently, including many on "the darkside", where violations are clearly more frequent than on the west side of Sukhumvit.

Does anyone know what action the police take against people who are in violation of either the license or helment requirement (or both)? I know it's not what I'd favor. IMO, the bike should be confiscated, and held until someone with a license and a helmet comes to retrieve it. The person picking it up, whether or not it is the violator, should have to prove that the violator has paid the appropriate fine for the violation, and pay an additional fee for the "storage" of the motorbike. That's what's done with cars in the USA for such a violation.

If the penalties assessed for these violations are not reasonably significant, the violators will just blow it off, and continue to do the same thing.

If you disagree, I'd be interested in seeing your reason(s) why.

This is a random checkpoint set up by the Highway Police in front of the Police station. The fine for no insurance is 2000 baht. All the other fines are very low being 200 Baht.

Barry

[chanman]

I am very happy to learn of this action. I only wish that the police would do more of it, and with less obvious setup than a "massive checkpoint".

We all know that the percentage of Thais who are operating motorbikes without licenses, and/or without helmets, is very high. I know that there are some farangs who do this also, but it is a much lower percentage, from what I can see of the helmet issue. (I have no idea about the licenses, of course.)

I'd like to see totally random checkpoints set up frequently, including many on "the darkside", where violations are clearly more frequent than on the west side of Sukhumvit.

Does anyone know what action the police take against people who are in violation of either the license or helment requirement (or both)? I know it's not what I'd favor. IMO, the bike should be confiscated, and held until someone with a license and a helmet comes to retrieve it. The person picking it up, whether or not it is the violator, should have to prove that the violator has paid the appropriate fine for the violation, and pay an additional fee for the "storage" of the motorbike. That's what's done with cars in the USA for such a violation.

If the penalties assessed for these violations are not reasonably significant, the violators will just blow it off, and continue to do the same thing.

If you disagree, I'd be interested in seeing your reason(s) why.

This is a random checkpoint set up by the Highway Police in front of the Police station. The fine for no insurance is 2000 baht. All the other fines are very low being 200 Baht.

Barry

I saw a news item on the Pattaya People News channel yesterday regarding Bomb detection equipment donated by the US Embassy, the local police then looked to have set up a bomb check point on Sukhumvit for a random bomb search, the Pick up driving westerner in his vest, shorts and flip flops looked very baffled as one scanned his body looking for hidden explosives and another checked his truck.

Edited February 25, 2008 by chanman

[Phil Conners]

[...] random checkpoint [...] in front of the Police station. [...]

As they randomly do it a couple of times per month.

You're joking, right?

[patsfangr]

[...] random checkpoint [...] in front of the Police station. [...]

As they randomly do it a couple of times per month.

You're joking, right?

I think Barry needs to check on the definition of the word "random".

What I meant by that is that checkpoints should be activated at various locations, at various times of the day, with no advance warning to anyone. Why not one, just one, checkpoint team that works all day, every day. They could set up 3 shifts, with 4 officers on each. Each checkpoint could operate for a period of about 2 hours, which would snag plenty of violators, and not allow time for the "word to spread", making it almost useless. The crew could then move to a new location, and set up a new checkpoint. Allowing time for movement and breaks, each crew could run 3 checkpoints per shift.

If these crews rotated around the entire Pattaya area, covering both sides of Sukumvit, I believe they could achieve impressive positive results within a month.

[sweetchariot]

I saw a news item on the Pattaya People News channel yesterday regarding Bomb detection equipment donated by the US Embassy, the local police then looked to have set up a bomb check point on Sukhumvit for a random bomb search, the Pick up driving westerner in his vest, shorts and flip flops looked very baffled as one scanned his body looking for hidden explosives and another checked his truck.

I read last week that somewhere down south (I forget which town), all motorbikes when parking are required to leave the seat up. Wouldn't be surprised if you see that here soon.

[torrenova]

I personally think there should be no fines. OK, for minor stuff like no helmet, broken indicator etc. fines for them.

I'd jail those without licenses or insurance and I mean insurance which would pay me back for my shiny new Mercedes if they write it off.

You can't fine them say Bt100,000 because they don't have it. You can lock them up.

Harsh I agree but I see no other alternative as they know they can bribe their way out and if the damage is too great then they assume the other people will have insurance.

Maybe cutting their arms off would be a permanent punishment.

Somehow they have to be educated that they have no right to drive a bike or car and the first responsibility when driving is to have a license and insurance.

By way of clarification, driving a motor vehicle is not a "right". It is a privelege which is earned by learning, the basic operation of the vehicle, and the rules of the road. A driver is then granted a license, and required to continue to obey the laws in order to retain that privelege.

Removing the privelege, and assessing a reasonable fine, is quite adequate as a punishment, regardless of the economic status of the violator. Driving without a license, however, should certainly require that the vehicle be confiscated, with retrieval permitted only by a licensed driver, following the payment of fines for the violation, and for the storage of the vehicle.

Given the fact that this is a civilized, heavily populated country, I believe that the acknowledgement that driving is a privelege, and that safe, orderly traffic should be a priority, are very reasonable. I see nothing unreasonable in any of the penalties I suggest in support of that.

I agree that it is a priviledge but the Thais don't see it that way. They have a mai pen rai attitude to insurance or even licenses (and no responsibility at all) and as there is no point giving them a fine which could act as a deterrent, the only punishment is to remove the possibility of reoffending such as cutting the hands off thieves or locking them up. Whilst locked up they could be forced to do some good works and not just left to rot. Reoffend 3 times, then just leave them to rot as they have proved they will not learn.

As for those of you who think their attitude is in any way acceptable or excusable on any grounds, nevermind economic ones (always money for whisky and cigarettes though and mobile phones !) then what happens if one of these little shits hits my wife or baby and either kills them, leaves them brain damaged or leaves me with a mega million baht uninsured hospital bill ?

I'm sorry but no fine is acceptable. Serious jail time and if drunk etc. or on yabba etc. then throw the key away, sieze all land and assets and give them to the disadvantaged.

[calmichael]

I am very happy to learn of this action. I only wish that the police would do more of it, and with less obvious setup than a "massive checkpoint".

We all know that the percentage of Thais who are operating motorbikes without licenses, and/or without helmets, is very high. I know that there are some farangs who do this also, but it is a much lower percentage, from what I can see of the helmet issue. (I have no idea about the licenses, of course.)

I'd like to see totally random checkpoints set up frequently, including many on "the darkside", where violations are clearly more frequent than on the west side of Sukhumvit.

Does anyone know what action the police take against people who are in violation of either the license or helment requirement (or both)? I know it's not what I'd favor. IMO, the bike should be confiscated, and held until someone with a license and a helmet comes to retrieve it. The person picking it up, whether or not it is the violator, should have to prove that the violator has paid the appropriate fine for the violation, and pay an additional fee for the "storage" of the motorbike. That's what's done with cars in the USA for such a violation.

If the penalties assessed for these violations are not reasonably significant, the violators will just blow it off, and continue to do the same thing.

If you disagree, I'd be interested in seeing your reason(s) why.

Yes, keep adding lots and lots of rules... just like 'home. I wonder why folks move to a new country, complain that it's not like their former residence, and promote the same way of life that drove us here??? Sorry for the run on sentence :-)

[madjbs]

What is the fine for no insurance and no tax? Mine has just ran out so I need to renew it. I nearly got in trouble the other day in BKK because the BIB had set up a sting operation on one side of a flyover, luckily a motorbike taxi in font of me spotted them and just turned around and started going the other way (this is on a dual lane flyover, both lanes going the same way), as my tax and insurance had just run out plus the fact we were on the flyover I was slightly worried about the size of he fine so I followed the motorbike taxi. Thankfully the traffic was very heavy so it was easy to get back along the bridge.

[patsfangr]

Yes, keep adding lots and lots of rules... just like 'home. I wonder why folks move to a new country, complain that it's not like their former residence, and promote the same way of life that drove us here??? Sorry for the run on sentence :-)

I can assure you that the "way of life" in the USA is definitely NOT among the things that drove me here.

[chanman]

Yes, keep adding lots and lots of rules... just like 'home. I wonder why folks move to a new country, complain that it's not like their former residence, and promote the same way of life that drove us here??? Sorry for the run on sentence :-)

I can assure you that the "way of life" in the USA is definitely NOT among the things that drove me here.

Out of interest what did?

[patsfangr]

Yes, keep adding lots and lots of rules... just like 'home. I wonder why folks move to a new country, complain that it's not like their former residence, and promote the same way of life that drove us here??? Sorry for the run on sentence :-)

I can assure you that the "way of life" in the USA is definitely NOT among the things that drove me here.

Out of interest what did?

Most of it is, I'm sure, of no interest to anyone here. But, since you asked politely, and with the assurance that I neither seek nor deserve any sympathy, here's the brief list; and the "long, sad story" that goes with it.

1. I have been married to my Thai wife for over 30 years. We lived all of those years in my home country, the USA. I promissed her, many years ago, that I would retire to Thailand. The many visits I had made to Thailand on vacations did not give me an accurate impression of what everyday life here would be like. We had visited Pattaya only once, on one of our first vacations here, back in the 70's. Needless to say, it was a much different place then, with the "nightlife" area much smaller, and more contained, as my aging brain remembers it.

2. I had a reasonable amount of success in my business career in the USA. However, I did an embarassingly lousy job of saving for retirement. I did end up with enough, including the sale of our US home, to immediately buy our house (which is much larger, and with more surrounding property, than what we had in the USA) and our car (which is much smaller, and less comfortable than my Buick!)) here for cash (in her name, of course). But that investment left me with far too little in savings to finance a return to the USA. My retirement income (pension + Social Security) is enough to live a reasonably comfortable, though certainly not "lavish" lifestyle here. It would be barely enough to survive on in the USA, since housing costs alone would eat up most of it. That's the answer to the "why do you still live here?" question.

3. As for why we're in Pattaya, I blame my own lack of knowledge (and more thorough investigation) of the inferior infrastructure, and sordid environment issues that have been discussed by many in this thread. I regret that I trusted in my wife for the selection of the specific location of the property we bought. The property itself is fine. But once outside the walls ... She simply did not have the experience to consider all of the facts that would affect our daily lives in this area. And I should have known that!

If I had it to do over again, which, for the financial reasons noted above, I do not, I would not be living in this area. I would probably have asked my wife, who made the property search trip alone, to find us a place on the outskirts of BKK. Before her trip, I had specifically said that I did not want to live in BKK, where her family lives, because I am so freaked by the traffic situation there. I now know the problems I would have faced living just outside BKK would pale beside what I dislike about Pattaya! Now that I do live here, I will continue to hope for, and promote in every way that I can, changes that will make this a safer, more comfortable, more convenient area to live, during my lifetime. But I am resigned to the fact that I will never be content with my life here; and cognizant of the fact that I have no one to blame but myself.

[stevemiddie]

Yes, keep adding lots and lots of rules... just like 'home. I wonder why folks move to a new country, complain that it's not like their former residence, and promote the same way of life that drove us here??? Sorry for the run on sentence :-)

I can assure you that the "way of life" in the USA is definitely NOT among the things that drove me here.

Out of interest what did?

Most of it is, I'm sure, of no interest to anyone here. But, since you asked politely, and with the assurance that I neither seek nor deserve any sympathy, here's the brief list; and the "long, sad story" that goes with it.

1. I have been married to my Thai wife for over 30 years. We lived all of those years in my home country, the USA. I promissed her, many years ago, that I would retire to Thailand. The many visits I had made to Thailand on vacations did not give me an accurate impression of what everyday life here would be like. We had visited Pattaya only once, on one of our first vacations here, back in the 70's. Needless to say, it was a much different place then, with the "nightlife" area much smaller, and more contained, as my aging brain remembers it.

2. I had a reasonable amount of success in my business career in the USA. However, I did an embarassingly lousy job of saving for retirement. I did end up with enough, including the sale of our US home, to immediately buy our house (which is much larger, and with more surrounding property, than what we had in the USA) and our car (which is much smaller, and less comfortable than my Buick!)) here for cash (in her name, of course). But that investment left me with far too little in savings to finance a return to the USA. My retirement income (pension + Social Security) is enough to live a reasonably comfortable, though certainly not "lavish" lifestyle here. It would be barely enough to survive on in the USA, since housing costs alone would eat up most of it. That's the answer to the "why do you still live here?" question.

3. As for why we're in Pattaya, I blame my own lack of knowledge (and more thorough investigation) of the inferior infrastructure, and sordid environment issues that have been discussed by many in this thread. I regret that I trusted in my wife for the selection of the specific location of the property we bought. The property itself is fine. But once outside the walls ... She simply did not have the experience to consider all of the facts that would affect our daily lives in this area. And I should have known that!

If I had it to do over again, which, for the financial reasons noted above, I do not, I would not be living in this area. I would probably have asked my wife, who made the property search trip alone, to find us a place on the outskirts of BKK. Before her trip, I had specifically said that I did not want to live in BKK, where her family lives, because I am so freaked by the traffic situation there. I now know the problems I would have faced living just outside BKK would pale beside what I dislike about Pattaya! Now that I do live here, I will continue to hope for, and promote in every way that I can, changes that will make this a safer, more comfortable, more convenient area to live, during my lifetime. But I am resigned to the fact that I will never be content with my life here; and cognizant of the fact that I have no one to blame but myself.

I sympathise...to a certain extent.

You DO have your own home, presumably paid for, a car, a wife that you are still with?

You have your health? Friends in Pattaya? USB to watch the Pats?

Your life could be FAR worse. Many peoples lives are worse.

Try to be positive about everything. It could be worse........you could be one of the 2 million Americans facing foreclosure right now.

[chanman]

Yes, keep adding lots and lots of rules... just like 'home. I wonder why folks move to a new country, complain that it's not like their former residence, and promote the same way of life that drove us here??? Sorry for the run on sentence :-)

I can assure you that the "way of life" in the USA is definitely NOT among the things that drove me here.

Out of interest what did?

Most of it is, I'm sure, of no interest to anyone here. But, since you asked politely, and with the assurance that I neither seek nor deserve any sympathy, here's the brief list; and the "long, sad story" that goes with it.

1. I have been married to my Thai wife for over 30 years. We lived all of those years in my home country, the USA. I promissed her, many years ago, that I would retire to Thailand. The many visits I had made to Thailand on vacations did not give me an accurate impression of what everyday life here would be like. We had visited Pattaya only once, on one of our first vacations here, back in the 70's. Needless to say, it was a much different place then, with the "nightlife" area much smaller, and more contained, as my aging brain remembers it.

2. I had a reasonable amount of success in my business career in the USA. However, I did an embarassingly lousy job of saving for retirement. I did end up with enough, including the sale of our US home, to immediately buy our house (which is much larger, and with more surrounding property, than what we had in the USA) and our car (which is much smaller, and less comfortable than my Buick!)) here for cash (in her name, of course). But that investment left me with far too little in savings to finance a return to the USA. My retirement income (pension + Social Security) is enough to live a reasonably comfortable, though certainly not "lavish" lifestyle here. It would be barely enough to survive on in the USA, since housing costs alone would eat up most of it. That's the answer to the "why do you still live here?" question.

3. As for why we're in Pattaya, I blame my own lack of knowledge (and more thorough investigation) of the inferior infrastructure, and sordid environment issues that have been discussed by many in this thread. I regret that I trusted in my wife for the selection of the specific location of the property we bought. The property itself is fine. But once outside the walls ... She simply did not have the experience to consider all of the facts that would affect our daily lives in this area. And I should have known that!

If I had it to do over again, which, for the financial reasons noted above, I do not, I would not be living in this area. I would probably have asked my wife, who made the property search trip alone, to find us a place on the outskirts of BKK. Before her trip, I had specifically said that I did not want to live in BKK, where her family lives, because I am so freaked by the traffic situation there. I now know the problems I would have faced living just outside BKK would pale beside what I dislike about Pattaya! Now that I do live here, I will continue to hope for, and promote in every way that I can, changes that will make this a safer, more comfortable, more convenient area to live, during my lifetime. But I am resigned to the fact that I will never be content with my life here; and cognizant of the fact that I have no one to blame but myself.

Thanks it was a genuine enquiry, it is always interesting to know how people end up here I think.

As Steve says always look on the bright side of life.

[patsfangr]

I sympathise...to a certain extent.

You DO have your own home, presumably paid for, a car, a wife that you are still with?

You have your health? Friends in Pattaya? USB to watch the Pats?

Your life could be FAR worse. Many peoples lives are worse.

Try to be positive about everything. It could be worse........you could be one of the 2 million Americans facing foreclosure right now.

You are 100% correct, Steve. That's why I prefaced my "long, sad story" (was in quotes for a reason) with "I neither seek nor deserve any sympathy." Believe me, I consider myself well above the life of the average person on this planet. All things considered, I am probably better off than most of the expats here in Pattaya. I simply related the reasons why I came here, and the fact that I consider it a personal mistake, since I could have been happier elsewhere. No tears dripping into my beer!

[begsaresponse]

There was a highway checkpoint this morning. Anyone get caught?