People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[bulmercke]

What's that ASTV webcast address?

Currently here not available.

------------------

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074474

Quote

Police to ask protesters to move to new location

Police will try to ask protesters to move to a new location and try their best not to use force to disperse the rally, Channel 7 reported.

The station said the top police officers resolved to talk to the leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy to change the rally location intead of using force against the protesters.

The Nation

Unquote

Yes - but what's the point of protesting publicly if you're not goin' to be heard or seen by anyone. I thought the whole point of protesting was to make your presence felt.

Gotta a feelin' Samak and Thaksin want to teach the PAD a lesson this time.

Edited May 31, 2008 by bulmercke

[h90]

any news from other cities?

There are rumors from small mobs there, but don't know if it is true or wishfull thinking.

[h90]

TOC

BREAKING NEWS: PAD Core Leaders' Statement against Use of Force to Disperse Rally

UPDATE : 31 May 2008

Announcement Number 12/2008

People’s Alliance for Democracy

Stance towards Government’s Move to Disperse Rally

As Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej of the nominee government had announced on NBT Channel on Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 9 a.m. that he will act decisively in dispersing the gathering of the People’s Alliance for Democracy today, the PAD has an official stance as follows:

1. The PAD insists the people’s gathering is carried out according to the rights given by article 69 of the 2007 Constitution and the participants are carrying out their duties as Thai citizens according to article 70 in protecting the nation, religion, and the Monarchy, as well as the Constitutional Monarchy system advocated by this Constitution.

The PAD has always carried out its protest peacefully, without violence, and without weapons as is a Constitutional right according to article 63, which states “individuals have the right to gather peacefully and without weapons.”

Limiting this right is not possible unless the government invokes a specific law on public gathering and to protect the convenience of the public, to ensure order in times of war, or while the emergency decree or martial law is invoked.

Dispersing a gathering without a law or a situation to back it up cannot be done, as is illustrated by the ruling in case number 51/2008 deliberated by the Songkhla Administrative Court, part of which states:

“Even if state officials have the authority to block a gathering according to the law, it must be when the country is facing war or when martial law is invoked. When the gathering was dispersed, the country was not at war nor was martial law announced. Therefore, the officials’ dispersing of the gathering goes against the public’s rights to gather peacefully as the Constitution upholds.

2. Since this peaceful, non-violent, and weapons-free gathering of the public is according to their right under the Constitution, if state officials use force to disperse the rally, it must be carried out under authority granted by a law. If not, the PAD will not allow force to be used to disperse the rally.

3. The PAD will allow police officers dressed in their full uniform and regalia to operate within the rally without obstruction.

4. As there is no law to back the use of force by state officials to disperse the rally, the PAD will now allow participants to be hurt, its assets to be moved out of the rally ground or destroyed, and will use their rights to protect their lives and assets as they see fit.

5. If the government invokes the emergency decree or martial law, the PAD asks that all participants remain calm and controlled.

6. If force is used to disperse the rally illegally, the PAD calls on the public to join in the fight against this injustice and continue the sacred mission of purging the nominee government. If the PAD core leaders are arrested, representatives of the group will continue the movement to carry out their objective in this fight.

With deepest respect,

The People’s Alliance for Democracy

May 31, 2008

[bulmercke]

Police offer to help PAD relocate rally site

Deputy police spokesman Pol Maj Gen Surapol Thuanthong said police were talking to the leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy to help them relocate to a new rally site.

Surapol said police offered to help them move the stage and al belongings of the protesters to a new site of their choice.

He said the PAD could continue their rally at the People's Ground at the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's head office, Chatuchak Park or Lumpini Park.

The spokesman said police would not use force against the protesters because police did not regard them as criminals.

However, if the negotiation fails to come up with an agreement and the protest caused damages to other people, it would be up to the prime minister to decide whether to order police to use force, Surapol said.

The Nation

>>>>>>>>>>>

That sounds very conciliatory of Samak considering his earlier aggressive stance toward the PAD in his morning broadcast.

It's a ruse to con the public into thinking he was the voice of moderation and conciliation after the protest is forcibly broken up. He knows the PAD leaders probably won't accpet this offer - that's if it really exists at all!

[nomoretalksin]

For the people who can't get ASTV (A Travellers links work's fine above), currently it looks more like a rock-concert (I think his a famous singer, but can't remember his name) with a band on the stage, and people swinging flags (hundreds & hundreds) and seams like a good time. At the moment

A view thousand? How many I can't tell as the street is quite narrow and the cameras

can't show the real end of that street, which is full of people!

Thai National flags everwhere! They can't break these people in force, it would be crazy! Families, white-collar workers (bankers etc.) are there! Just ordinary good people fed up with big boys corruptions.

----

tks H90 for above info, reading carefuly now

(singing already over now)

Edited May 31, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[Plus]

Currently there's only about a meter separating PAD guards and fully geared up police.

Police offer to relocate is a move in the right direction - at least someone in charge wants to avoid violence. The problem is not the place but Samak's thirst for blood.

ASTV coverage is not live, I understand, thanks for the link, Traveller.

[h90]

nomoretalksin: of course you can brake that, but the result would be a desaster.

[A_Traveller]

At 6 this evening the linked video stream was of the people there all singing the anthem, so it may well be live. BP is reporting

UPDATE: (BangkokPost.com) - Tension between several thousand anti-government protesters and rows of riot police appeared to ease just before dusk on Saturday, as demonstrators appeared ready to give up their street protest.

Hundreds of police in riot helmets and shields confronted a line of protesters, and it was clear that trouble still was possible. But most police pulled back and took off their riot gear, indicating a settlement had been reached and the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) was winding down the protest as ordered by the government.

LINK

Regards

[bulmercke]

Currently there's only about a meter separating PAD guards and fully geared up police.

Police offer to relocate is a move in the right direction - at least someone in charge wants to avoid violence. The problem is not the place but Samak's thirst for blood.

ASTV coverage is not live, I understand, thanks for the link, Traveller.

Exactly - his character and aggressive temperament MUST have an over-whelming influence on what transpires tonight. And then there's the aggrieved, slighted and revengeful Thaksin baying like an attack dog behind him.

[A_Traveller]

RE my post above the same link to the Bangkok Post now reads:-

UPDATE: (BangkokPost.com) - Tension between several thousand anti-government protesters and rows of riot police appeared to ease just before dusk on Saturday, but demonstrators vowed they would not give up their street protest despite an order by the prime minister to disperse.

Hundreds of police in riot helmets and shields confronted a line of protesters, and it was clear that trouble still was possible.

Most of several thousand police pulled back and took off their riot gear just before dusk. The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) kept up a noisy street protest, while some PAD members faced off with a line of riot police across a five-metre barricade just behind the protest.

Regards

[nomoretalksin]

A doctor is currently explaining (a bit funny his already wearing his ruber gloves) what to do in case of emergency, teargas with contact lense etc. and 10 doctors are standby. Heavy police in the background. And an old lady in the wheelchair with kind of scout-dress is waving her flag and

they advising her some support, in case of emergency. Hat Yai (some people) are threathening to close Hat Yai airport, in case the police go ahead.

They are shouting now in English: We love Thailand, We Love Democracy

Now Chamlong is taking over the mike.

***hot: read above PAD statement ***

Edited May 31, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[h90]

A doctor is currently explaining (a bit funny his already wearing his ruber gloves) what to do in case of emergency, teargas with contact lense etc. and 10 doctors are standby. Heavy police in the background. And an old lady in the wheelchair with kind of scout-dress is waving her flag and

they advising her some support, in case of emergency. Hat Yai (some people) are threathening to close Hat Yai airport, in case the police go ahead.

That's I get here, from my translator ex live ASTV coverage currently.

They are shouting now in English: We love Thailand, We Love Democracy

***hot: read above PAD statement ***

got told also Krabi airport.

[thaigene2]

Interesting to put it all in a bit of context. It seemed yesterday we had the Samak friendly deal of bye bye Mr. "No freedom of speech" and the collapse of the consty ammendment followed by the PAD going home. It all equalled loads more time for the mighty one to continue being PM and solving the couintries problems. Then we had the Chidchobistas announce the sequel to consty ammendment followed by the PAD finding a nice reason to stay out. Any nice little plan scuppered. Im not surprised Samak has gone mad. He is in a very tight spot and maybe factions supporting him dont have the upper hand in the PPP right now. Still rememebeing his previous dalliances with state intervention on demonstrators we should probably be somewhat concerned.

Of course the PAD have the right to demonstrate and any attempt to break them up by force would be undemocratic and woudl probably further wreck Thailands international image and of course the factions of the PPP have the right to put whatever they want before parliament. However, it would be nice if calmer heads prevailed just for once and everyone agreed to take a step back, and put bigger things than their own personal campaigns first. After all there are a bunch of major problems affecting all world wide right now and it isnt really a good isdea to ignore them while politcking.

The way I see it, the backing down on a Consitutional amendment was a face-saving way out for all involved - if the PAD were truly demonstrating for that outcome. It also was a victory for them that Jakrapob resigned. However neither of those major developments resutled in them ending their occupation of Rajadamnern Nok Avenue - coincidentally in front of Army HQ which I suspect they feel is their 'safe ground'.

Nope - instead (as I predicted above), they did an aboutface and said "No we're now going to keep demonstrating until Samak resigns and the government falls). It just proved how disingenuous they were in the reason for protesting. And that was the green light that Samak needed. He has the legal and (arguably) moral authority to take back the street on behalf of the rest of Thailand. He's the Prime Minister of a democratically elected Government - something the PAD can't or won't accept - and the government has been endorssed by the head of state.

Sorry - but that now has beome an insurrection - not a democratic protest. As I said, I sympathise with he middle-class people who are out there supporting this rally because they hate Thaksin, etc. but they are just pawns being used by the establishment to try to incite a coup - sadly it is these very decent people who will get their heads bashed or tear gassed tonight or tommorow - not the well-healed people pulling the strings behind all this PAD stuff. Shame someone wouldn't set fire THEIR Benz!

[bulmercke]

RE my post above the same link to the Bangkok Post now reads:-

UPDATE: (BangkokPost.com) - Tension between several thousand anti-government protesters and rows of riot police appeared to ease just before dusk on Saturday, but demonstrators vowed they would not give up their street protest despite an order by the prime minister to disperse.

Hundreds of police in riot helmets and shields confronted a line of protesters, and it was clear that trouble still was possible.

Most of several thousand police pulled back and took off their riot gear just before dusk. The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) kept up a noisy street protest, while some PAD members faced off with a line of riot police across a five-metre barricade just behind the protest.

Regards

Interesting descrepencies between the above post and the one you posted before it.

[A_Traveller]

^^ Whilst ignoring that as the first motion for the constitutional amendment was 'dropped' a second was announced. this gave, rightly or wrongly PAD a platform.

Regards

PS Given my posting time from pressing enter to the refresh is now in the couple of minute range, I'll add here, the change in tenor is very noticeable, hence why I highlighted it.

Edited May 31, 2008 by A_Traveller

[h90]

Interesting to put it all in a bit of context. It seemed yesterday we had the Samak friendly deal of bye bye Mr. "No freedom of speech" and the collapse of the consty ammendment followed by the PAD going home. It all equalled loads more time for the mighty one to continue being PM and solving the couintries problems. Then we had the Chidchobistas announce the sequel to consty ammendment followed by the PAD finding a nice reason to stay out. Any nice little plan scuppered. Im not surprised Samak has gone mad. He is in a very tight spot and maybe factions supporting him dont have the upper hand in the PPP right now. Still rememebeing his previous dalliances with state intervention on demonstrators we should probably be somewhat concerned.

Of course the PAD have the right to demonstrate and any attempt to break them up by force would be undemocratic and woudl probably further wreck Thailands international image and of course the factions of the PPP have the right to put whatever they want before parliament. However, it would be nice if calmer heads prevailed just for once and everyone agreed to take a step back, and put bigger things than their own personal campaigns first. After all there are a bunch of major problems affecting all world wide right now and it isnt really a good isdea to ignore them while politcking.

The way I see it, the backing down on a Consitutional amendment was a face-saving way out for all involved - if the PAD were truly demonstrating for that outcome. It also was a victory for them that Jakrapob resigned. However neither of those major developments resutled in them ending their occupation of Rajadamnern Nok Avenue - coincidentally in front of Army HQ which I suspect they feel is their 'safe ground'.

Nope - instead (as I predicted above), they did an aboutface and said "No we're now going to keep demonstrating until Samak resigns and the government falls). It just proved how disingenuous they were in the reason for protesting. And that was the green light that Samak needed. He has the legal and (arguably) moral authority to take back the street on behalf of the rest of Thailand. He's the Prime Minister of a democratically elected Government - something the PAD can't or won't accept - and the government has been endorssed by the head of state.

Sorry - but that now has beome an insurrection - not a democratic protest. As I said, I sympathise with he middle-class people who are out there supporting this rally because they hate Thaksin, etc. but they are just pawns being used by the establishment to try to incite a coup - sadly it is these very decent people who will get their heads bashed or tear gassed tonight or tommorow - not the well-healed people pulling the strings behind all this PAD stuff. Shame someone wouldn't set fire THEIR Benz!

:D Samak the moral authority :D

[marshbags]

Edited due to duplication ( the board error was displayed in this instance ?? )

marshbags

Edited May 31, 2008 by marshbags

[marshbags]

Kudos to Thai visa for providing us all with this marvellous facility to keep updated on a constant basis.

O.K. knockers, some of it may at times be a little repeatative, but then again this is live and lot,s of reports are ongoing from the different media sources.

Let us appreciate the many positives, and keep the thread on topic.

May the demonstrators keep safe and nothing serious takes place, sadly i do not think the PPP and their fellow shit stirrers want a peaceful solutiion and are hel_l bent on confrontation.

How the <deleted> can anyone take Samaks word as genuine in his offer of relocation to another site, the PAD are after all old soldiers when it comes to believing his ilk of many years standing.

They will in my opinion become exposed big time should they attempt to move and in turn weaken their position ( divided there could / would be chaos as i read the situation )

Many families and young among them as reports are telling us, we must all be of their safety should it get out of hand.

They also have the Hired Thugs to contend with, which have to be of great concern assuming the protesters are not afforded the protection they will need enroute.

marshbags and continually concerned for the innocents, all of them.

Edited May 31, 2008 by marshbags

[h90]

It seems at the moment 1:0 for PAD. Police seems to step back. Most probably they don't have the resources to do it peaceful. Hope it is not because they take the guns now.....

Chamlong sound sure in his things. Pretty interesting life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamlong_Srimuang

A bit crazy and made some mistakes but never anything comparable with Thaksin/Samak people.

[thaigene2]

How the <deleted> can anyone take Samaks word as genuine in his offer of relocation to another site, the PAD are after all old soldiers when it comes to believing his ilk of many years standing.

...

Many families and young among them as reports are telling us of their safety should it get out of hand.

marshbags and continually concerned for the innocents, all of them.

How could he stop them from having rallies somewhere else? Look - even in Western countries you couldn't close down a major artery for days on end and then refuse to leave.

You say you are concerned for their safety - me too - but you then seem to be calling for them to hold the line..They should keep their powder dry and fight another day. They've lost the argument (this time) by constantly changing their reason for ocupying the street.

[paveet]

Sorry double post.

(Seems the problem isn't with Thai internet though, I'm posting from outside).

Edited May 31, 2008 by paveet

[paveet]

And you would take Samak's word for it that he's pulling out of the constitution amendment idea? The only reason they pulled it out is to try and make PAD's demonstration seem illegitimate.

The PAD is not (seriously) dumb to believe Samak's/PPP =>hence Thaksin's words for things.

[bulmercke]

How the <deleted> can anyone take Samaks word as genuine in his offer of relocation to another site, the PAD are after all old soldiers when it comes to believing his ilk of many years standing.

...

Many families and young among them as reports are telling us of their safety should it get out of hand.

marshbags and continually concerned for the innocents, all of them.

How could he stop them from having rallies somewhere else? Look - even in Western countries you couldn't close down a major artery for days on end and then refuse to leave.

You say you are concerned for their safety - me too - but you then seem to be calling for them to hold the line..They should keep their powder dry and fight another day. They've lost the argument (this time) by constantly changing their reason for ocupying the street.

True - but then we all know that these complaints of traffic congestion in the area are being seized upon by the government and exagerated to justify an end to the protest.

The protest is causing minimal traffic inconvenience in the area.

Surely continuance of a road diversion is more sensible than a violent confrontation?

[paveet]

You can't justify a violent crackdown by saying the protest is blocking traffic. If the government is really going to use that as an excuse, then I must say the government is very ... I don't know what word to use to describe that.

And Samak's hot temper attitude isn't helping this even a single bit. I vote he should go back to the kitchen

[marshbags]

How the <deleted> can anyone take Samaks word as genuine in his offer of relocation to another site, the PAD are after all old soldiers when it comes to believing his ilk of many years standing.

...

Many families and young among them as reports are telling us of their safety should it get out of hand.

marshbags and continually concerned for the innocents, all of them.

How could he stop them from having rallies somewhere else? Look - even in Western countries you couldn't close down a major artery for days on end and then refuse to leave.

You say you are concerned for their safety - me too - but you then seem to be calling for them to hold the line..They should keep their powder dry and fight another day. They've lost the argument (this time) by constantly changing their reason for ocupying the street.

It,s up to Samak to reach an agreement with the PAD and personally ensure their safety enroute to a new site.

In Western Countries they do close major roads down and usually the powers that be are not hel_l bent on what the PPP and their supporters have in mind.

Is it no wonder, when you consider the last few days and the obvious violence orientated comments that have been made via the usual play makers.

Stop the intimidation and have serious dialogue with a genuine offer on safety, Samak, simple in it.

By the way Samak can concentrate on the genuine needs of the Thai people and disregard his agenda ( drop it as in ) and put his efforts into addressing priorities of a more urgent nature.

As he was elected to do in the first instance, problem solved in one.

marshbags

Edited May 31, 2008 by marshbags

[Tony Clifton]

Police offer to help PAD relocate rally site

Same police who stopped PAD in their tracks last week so they set up camp where they are today?

[bulmercke]

CNN - on-screen rolling news bar now - THAI PM THREATENS FORCES ON PROTESTERS -

Edited May 31, 2008 by bulmercke

[Plus]

The assault is apparently postponed - there's an awful lot of people to arrest. They might move in in the middle of the night, though.

PAD has been preparing for this protest for months, they can't just get up and go home, and the constitution matter is still far from being resolved.

What about the stupid referendum? What about the second motion? What about unveiling a drafting commitee scheduled for Wednesday? What about Samak's threat of force?

The situation is in balance and it could go either way, it's not the time to pack it up yet.

>>>>

Tens of thousands of people by the look of it. Makes me proud of Thaialnd.

[bulmercke]

The assault is apparently postponed - there's an awful lot of people to arrest. They might move in in the middle of the night, though.

PAD has been preparing for this protest for months, they can't just get up and go home, and the constitution matter is still far from being resolved.

What about the stupid referendum? What about the second motion? What about unveiling a drafting commitee scheduled for Wednesday? What about Samak's threat of force?

The situation is in balance and it could go either way, it's not the time to pack it up yet.

>>>>

Tens of thousands of people by the look of it. Makes me proud of Thaialnd.

No doubt about that Plus.

It's a high-stakes game - for both sides - at this moment in time.

[h90]

The assault is apparently postponed - there's an awful lot of people to arrest. They might move in in the middle of the night, though.

PAD has been preparing for this protest for months, they can't just get up and go home, and the constitution matter is still far from being resolved.

What about the stupid referendum? What about the second motion? What about unveiling a drafting commitee scheduled for Wednesday? What about Samak's threat of force?

The situation is in balance and it could go either way, it's not the time to pack it up yet.

>>>>

Tens of thousands of people by the look of it. Makes me proud of Thaialnd.

I think police simply can't do it.

Chamlong is no idi*ot, he knows that the police can't handle it.