People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[jumnien]

You are quite right about the right to protest supporting the military junta in Thailand or Myanmar or anywhere else. That doesn't make it right, however! Disgusting would be a more appropriate term! Media mogul agitator Sondhi is a wreckless fool with no other goal than his own agrandisement!

[frodo]

You are quite right about the right to protest supporting the military junta in Thailand or Myanmar or anywhere else. That doesn't make it right, however! Disgusting would be a more appropriate term! Media mogul agitator Sondhi is a wreckless fool with no other goal than his own agrandisement!

PAD is now supporting the military junta in Myanmar? That's huge news considering it's Samak and PPP who fully embrace and support the junta in Myanmar. Must say I agree...disgusting that this current Gov't would support such an evil regime.

[jumnien]

Exactly what was General Sonthi doing in Myanmar in the days before he released his strangehold on the Thai people?

[A_Traveller]

^ Ironically perhaps, my personal views of Sondhi's motivations would be not a million miles away from yours, however, the individuals are exercising their democratic rights. One may take the view that their leaders have ulterior motives, but it is for the authorities to highlight and prove transgressions, if any, and use evidence and logic to defuse irrelevant challenges. If they are unable so to do then they must live with the consequences, and find a resolution within the framework of the law, which in both constitutions makes the use of police action highly questionable, without invoking emergency provisions. That is what the constitutions provide for.

By the by Sonthi was doing what every Thai government, both elected or appointed, has done for decades, which is to be supportive of the regime in Burma, this includes the present one, TRT, and prior administrations, irrespective of political hue. In that Thailand has failed the international community, but has benefited financially.

Regards

Edited June 1, 2008 by A_Traveller

[thaigene2]

Whatever happens - in the end, Thailand and the Establishment will have entered a new political paradigm where poor people demand a voice, and are no longer willing to sit on the sidelines while establishment-pandering politicians (e.g. Democrats) automatically rule the country in the interests of a closed-circle of corrupt families, while ignoring the concerns of the other 80 or 90% of Thais who work every day for the price of a pint of beer.

I hope Thaksin faces the music, I hope Chalerm runs off into exile somewhere and takes that mentally-challenged son of his with him (maybe Moo Ham could go with them - better still he could drive!).

But I truly believe that if PAD think they can return the country to the days where patronage and family-connections run the country and the poor can be completely ignored - they will do so at their peril. They need to reconcile with the poor - truly reconcile and SHARE the country - not pander.

[jumnien]

^ Ironically perhaps, my personal views of Sondhi's motivations would be not a million miles away from yours, however, the individuals are exercising their democratic rights. One may take the view that their leaders have ulterior motives, but it is for the authorities to highlight and prove transgressions, if any, and use evidence and logic to defuse irrelevant challenges. If they are unable so to do then they must live with the consequences, and find a resolution within the framework of the law, which in both constitutions makes the use of police action highly questionable, without invoking emergency provisions. That is what the constitutions provide for.

By the by Sonthi was doing what every Thai government, both elected or appointed, has done for decades, which is to be supportive of the regime in Burma, this includes the present one, TRT, and prior administrations, irrespective of political hue.

Regards

Thank you for your respectful response. I agree to a certain extent that it is Sondhi's right to protest to achieve his personal gain. And it is my right to call him a scumbag! The right-wing thugs love to have their patsies post insults against their political opponents. You can read thousands of posts slagging previously elected officials and their children and wives. But when it comes to their own good old boys club they protect their own! Enlightening, isn't it?

[A_Traveller]

On the associated Jakrapob point those who have Thai language skills {there's an audio too} may find this talk from him in Los Angeles on November 10 interesting. I'd contend this was what forced his resignation.

Regards

LINK

[younghusband]

^ Ironically perhaps, my personal views of Sondhi's motivations would be not a million miles away from yours, however, the individuals are exercising their democratic rights. One may take the view that their leaders have ulterior motives, but it is for the authorities to highlight and prove transgressions, if any, and use evidence and logic to defuse irrelevant challenges. If they are unable so to do then they must live with the consequences, and find a resolution within the framework of the law, which in both constitutions makes the use of police action highly questionable, without invoking emergency provisions. That is what the constitutions provide for.

By the by Sonthi was doing what every Thai government, both elected or appointed, has done for decades, which is to be supportive of the regime in Burma, this includes the present one, TRT, and prior administrations, irrespective of political hue. In that Thailand has failed the international community, but has benefited financially.

Regards

I agree with this.I'm glad that there was no rush of the blood to the head last night, and that the PAD protest was not broken up.It's an absolute right in a democracy that a peaceful organised (ie so no adverse impact on free movement of traffic etc) protest against the government should be permitted.Some may wriggle in discomfort but the plain truth is that despite all the upheaval of the last few years the authorities (Thaksin govt, junta and now Samak) up to now have been very careful to allow demonstrations and to keep violence well under control.(As someone who was in Paris in 1968 I know what police repression is like).In seeking a silver lining this is actually progress in Thailand (i hope not famous last words).

And yet there are some troubling aspects about PAD.They have achieved the short term objectives but do they really insist on the government's fall? Do they expect that the elected government should submit always to their particular form of mob rule? A coup was never really very likely and Samak has been quite clever in shoring up his military connections.His royalist connections (and hence immunity from lese majeste accusations) are impeccable.Some say the powers behind the last coup have actually achieved their ends through for example control of the bureaucracy and judiciary, and would not wish to see this de facto control threatened by an unpopular coup.But the looming presence of Thaksin is still there and I'm assuming in certain quarters, after all their efforts, there is a measure of carpet chewing at the fact he is still the most popular politician in the country.For this group the first aim has been achieved with Samak apparently backing away from amendments to the junta imposed charter.Next step is the confiscation of Thaksin's assets which I'm sure is seen as crucial but I don't have a handle on time frame.Meanwhile time and gravity is doing its job, and various old dinosurs are in a hurry.I'm not a betting man but I have a fairly clear idea who will be the last man standing in this protracted game.Meanwhile Thailand, though with in theory some quite useful cards to play, continues to slip in international stature.

[nomoretalksin]

There's a film currently at SFW Central World (with English Subtitles) - 7pm daily - unitl 25June08

called "The Truth Be Told"

Director Pimpaka Towira filmed this politically charge documentary over the course of three years, following media activist "Supinya Klangnarong"

during her legal fight against defamation lawsuits brought against her by the Shin Corporation (Thaksin). She and the "Post" were sued by 400million baht by Shin (Thaskin) for her short story telling the truth about Thaksin, manipulating Thai laws to benefit from his Shin Corp. sales to Singapore.

Source: "Daily Express - 31-May-2008" (page 22)

-----

The film is the only one who got currently 5 (max points) stars in the paper; so a must see for anyone who want's to see a bit the background of the PAD group (she was a regular guest during most protests against corruption, since it started about 2-3 years ago).

There you can see that these people are not "scums" but rare species of Thai-people who stand-up against corruption (believe me, if we would not been in Thai society, where most people accept their fait, we would have 100'000+ people on the street) and raise their voices for a good cause.

Most Thai people are also scared to join protests, same as you some see demonstrators as hooligians or similar.

I just don't understand how short-minded some foreigners, see the PAD and demonstraters as trouble-makers, and don't understand the truth for what it is, and can connect the whole puzzle/pic what's going in Thailand, since approx. 6 years. Go and watch this film, you might change your mind?!

However I agree that the PAD in the current situation, could step back and wait what the big boys are doing next - Agree! There is no way

that a demonstration on the street, should bring down a government. It has to be done buy fair election, which we hadn't again, but there should

be another way out of this. But how? Any ideas?

Director: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimpaka_Towira

Media Activist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supinya_Klangnarong

Background: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/08/06...le_30043800.php

Check it out, and get more details, before you blame protesters to apparently be the current trouble-makers in Thailand

Edited June 1, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[nomoretalksin]

Wife tells me Samak now says he never said he intended to move the protesters by force, but they must move as they're blocking the traffic.

I don't know what he intends if they don't move (and they've already made it clear they won't).

it's in the The Nation online too. This guy is a serious blow to any progress in Thailand. I never saw any politician like him, who always forget his own words!! (and as Thaksin mostly did: talk first, then think later). Oh boy, when will we get some clever guys on the top? When?

His made up to to the headlines on CNN + BBC yesterday, with his undemocratical force rattling.

Edited June 1, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[h90]

You are quite right about the right to protest supporting the military junta in Thailand or Myanmar or anywhere else. That doesn't make it right, however! Disgusting would be a more appropriate term! Media mogul agitator Sondhi is a wreckless fool with no other goal than his own agrandisement!

And don't forget Sondhis support for Nord Korea and the Taliban.

[h90]

Hi how to get ASTV in English please?? Anyone know??

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/default.aspx

But it is not exactly ASTV. It is their english program.

[nomoretalksin]

story/copyright: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/

Bangkok Senator Rosana Tositrakul give flowers to Polic comm. Pol Lt. Gen Asawin Kwanmuang at the Makkhawan Brdige

on Rajadamnoen Avenue late Saturday night to htnak him for not using force against protester.

Unqoute

---

She's also a woman I admire very much. She's sitting currently in the goverment as Senator (opposition).

Her fight against corruption also had some success recently.

-----

Guess the best overview and update you can find here:

http://absolutelybangkok.com/real-time-upd...state/#more-628

(check it out - best summary I've seen this weekend, with links and short but good comments to all main events this weekend)

also great source: http://www.2bangkok.com

Edited June 1, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[nomoretalksin]

There's a film currently at SFW Central World (with English Subtitles) - 7pm daily - unitl 25June08

called "The Truth Be Told"

Director Pimpaka Towira filmed this politically charge documentary over the course of three years, following media activist "Supinya Klangnarong"

during her legal fight against defamation lawsuits brought against her by the Shin Corporation (Thaksin). She and the "Post" were sued by 400million baht by Shin (Thaskin) for her short story telling the truth about Thaksin, manipulating Thai laws to benefit from his Shin Corp. sales to Singapore.

Source: "Daily Express - 31-May-2008" (page 22)

-----

The film is the only one who got currently 5 (max points) stars in the paper; so a must see for anyone who want's to see a bit the background of the PAD group (she was a regular guest during most protests against corruption, since it started about 2-3 years ago).

There you can see that these people are not "scums" but rare species of Thai-people who stand-up against corruption (believe me, if we would not been in Thai society, where most people accept their fait, we would have 100'000+ people on the street) and raise their voices for a good cause.

Most Thai people are also scared to join protests, same as you some see demonstrators as hooligians or similar.

I just don't understand how short-minded some foreigners, see the PAD and demonstraters as trouble-makers, and don't understand the truth for what it is, and can connect the whole puzzle/pic what's going in Thailand, since approx. 6 years. Go and watch this film, you might change your mind?!

However I agree that the PAD in the current situation, could step back and wait what the big boys are doing next - Agree! There is no way

that a demonstration on the street, should bring down a government. It has to be done buy fair election, which we hadn't again, but there should

be another way out of this. But how? Any ideas?

Director: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimpaka_Towira

Media Activist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supinya_Klangnarong

Background: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/08/06...le_30043800.php

Check it out, and get more details, before you blame protesters to apparently be the current trouble-makers in Thailand

Sorry for reposting (I couldn't edit anymore):

Here's the official "Daily Express" link to the movie: http://www.dailyxpress.net/2008/05/31/to_do/to_do_2556.php

[hammered]

You are quite right about the right to protest supporting the military junta in Thailand or Myanmar or anywhere else. That doesn't make it right, however! Disgusting would be a more appropriate term! Media mogul agitator Sondhi is a wreckless fool with no other goal than his own agrandisement!

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Beatrice Hall

[Insight]

Don't suppose you folks have seen the latest Samak on the Bangkok Post website? It's a bit of a jaw-dropper, but not sure if I can paste the whole article here:

PM Samak denies ordering crowd dispersal

Seriously rendered speechless after reading that one!

[hammered]

With both extensive media coverage both locally and internationally Samak was forced to back down. He also almost certainly found himself facing opposotion to the idea from powerful figures in and outside the police as well as even in his own party from what I hear. That his threat actually gave the PAD their largest turnout to date was probably also a shock. Rumours of action across the South if the police went in would also give the government if not Samak pause for thought.

Of course he could send them in on a weekday morning when there are few demonstrators but uit would inevitably only inflame the situation in the medium to long term. Now is probably time to confirm there will be no second constitution ammendment bill at this stage and time for the PAD to then go home. Of course this is not will happen as the Chidchobniks will not accept leaving the ammendment until later and the PAD will not go home at least until the government state no ammendment now.

With a rapidly deteriorating economic situtation the country could do with some leadership and capable ministers. A true government of national unity with all politcal differences put aside would probably be about the only thing that could achieve this right now imho. However, no doubt we will just get more of the same until a few deaths result, and it is not exactly helped by a PM who says something one day and then denies it the next. This whole we will smash them statement that went all round the world will only further convince outsiders that Thailand is not ready for investment yet and will, and this will annoy the more intelligent TRT/PPP supporters, furhter erode to some degree the democracy is on our side arguement of the PPP in the international arena where democracy is viewed as more than just elections.

[Siripon]

So Thaksin told Chalerm it was not the time to disperse the protesters, Samak's impotence once more exposed. Still his daughter, (he has twins, one is abroad), gave birth to a son yesterday so he's a happy grandfather today.

A rumour circulated yesterday that someone from the PAD planned to plant a bomb themselves to bring about a coup. I'd like to believe it wasn't true.

[nomoretalksin]

I believe it was Thaksin who had (as usual) the final say. Can you image what whould happen with the English + all other international press, if they got the story that Thaksin's proxy party was using force??!! All the old human records of Thaksin (plus Samaks 1972) would have been on headlines again today. That's why I believe that the PAD can demonstrate as long as they want, they will never want to use force.

Thaksin had to avoid this, and that's why Chalerm (mediator between those two) came up with this unbelievable, ridicoulos story (that actually Samak was trying to warn the PAD in the morning, because bombs were being plotted, but he wouldn't say who) in the afternoon.

Don't forget Thaksin has the final say, as his also (trying to) protecting Samak on his own scandal (fire-truck purchase)

Remember Samak saying short after taking office?: we all have to help each other in all court cases! They even don't hide their agendas!

------

"hammered" : Very good summary up there! I think you have it spot on.

You mention "largest turnup by Pad?"

I couldn't find any figs. Anyone know how many people approx. were there yest-eve? Thanks for any estimates.

Edited June 1, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[h90]

With both extensive media coverage both locally and internationally Samak was forced to back down. He also almost certainly found himself facing opposotion to the idea from powerful figures in and outside the police as well as even in his own party from what I hear. That his threat actually gave the PAD their largest turnout to date was probably also a shock. Rumours of action across the South if the police went in would also give the government if not Samak pause for thought.

Of course he could send them in on a weekday morning when there are few demonstrators but uit would inevitably only inflame the situation in the medium to long term. Now is probably time to confirm there will be no second constitution ammendment bill at this stage and time for the PAD to then go home. Of course this is not will happen as the Chidchobniks will not accept leaving the ammendment until later and the PAD will not go home at least until the government state no ammendment now.

With a rapidly deteriorating economic situtation the country could do with some leadership and capable ministers. A true government of national unity with all politcal differences put aside would probably be about the only thing that could achieve this right now imho. However, no doubt we will just get more of the same until a few deaths result, and it is not exactly helped by a PM who says something one day and then denies it the next. This whole we will smash them statement that went all round the world will only further convince outsiders that Thailand is not ready for investment yet and will, and this will annoy the more intelligent TRT/PPP supporters, furhter erode to some degree the democracy is on our side arguement of the PPP in the international arena where democracy is viewed as more than just elections.

Even if they don't change the constitution it is not time for the PAD to go home. Thaksin is still in power, taking over the courts. The PPP came only into power with massive fraud. You can't make a government with these PPP people. After the last coup Surajud (spelling) was too weak to clean up the mess.

Just don't ask me for a way out of that now! I really don't know.

[h90]

I believe it was Thaksin who had (as usual) the final say. Can you image what whould happen with the English + all other international press, if they got the story that Thaksin's proxy party was using force??!! All the old human records of Thaksin (plus Samaks 1972) would have been on headlines again today. That's why I believe that the PAD can demonstrate as long as they want, they will never want to use force.

Thaksin had to avoid this, and that's why Chalerm (mediator between those two) came up with this unbelievable, ridicoulos story (that actually Samak was trying to warn the PAD in the morning, because bombs were being plotted, but he wouldn't say who) in the afternoon.

Don't forget Thaksin has the final say, as his also (trying to) protecting Samak on his own scandal (fire-truck purchase)

Remember Samak saying short after taking office?: we all have to help each other in all court cases! They even don't hide their agendas!

------

"hammered"

you mention "largest turnup by Pad?"

I couldn't find any figs. Anyone know how many people approx. were there yest-eve? Thanks for any estimates.

And don't forget that they are afraid Chamlong. As also the police knows that he don't step back one inch. Not like in usual demonstrations: one canister tear gas and everyone goes home. They still know from 1992 and he told very clear that he don't care if he dies. He is the true nightmare for the police. Sondhi would step back if he sees that people get hurt. Chamlong not.

Beside that I think the police has a problem with Chalerm whos son shoot a policeman.

[younghusband]

With both extensive media coverage both locally and internationally Samak was forced to back down. He also almost certainly found himself facing opposotion to the idea from powerful figures in and outside the police as well as even in his own party from what I hear. That his threat actually gave the PAD their largest turnout to date was probably also a shock. Rumours of action across the South if the police went in would also give the government if not Samak pause for thought.

Of course he could send them in on a weekday morning when there are few demonstrators but uit would inevitably only inflame the situation in the medium to long term. Now is probably time to confirm there will be no second constitution ammendment bill at this stage and time for the PAD to then go home. Of course this is not will happen as the Chidchobniks will not accept leaving the ammendment until later and the PAD will not go home at least until the government state no ammendment now.

With a rapidly deteriorating economic situtation the country could do with some leadership and capable ministers. A true government of national unity with all politcal differences put aside would probably be about the only thing that could achieve this right now imho. However, no doubt we will just get more of the same until a few deaths result, and it is not exactly helped by a PM who says something one day and then denies it the next. This whole we will smash them statement that went all round the world will only further convince outsiders that Thailand is not ready for investment yet and will, and this will annoy the more intelligent TRT/PPP supporters, furhter erode to some degree the democracy is on our side arguement of the PPP in the international arena where democracy is viewed as more than just elections.

Of course democracy is about just more than elections, but the peoples' mandate is a precondition.The PAD protestors, despite their cynical and unsavoury leadership) have every right to demonstrate peacefully but they do not have the right to dictate policy to an elected government.I have no doubt incidentally that some within the PAD leadership were disappointed they were unable to provoke a violent response, and even now some influential voices are calling for the overthrow of the current legitimate government.Those with longer memories will know how the irresponsible Chamlong was ready to spill the blood of his young supporters back in 1992.It's all fairly foolish in my view since Samak has now a good understanding with the military.Incidentally Hammered as someone closely involved in monitoring international investment in Thailand I can assure you with absolute certainty that the major concern is not the volatile PM(he can be elected out of office) but the ease with which popular democracy can be easily overturned here by rogue generals and vested interest mobs.One thing you can be certain about on all sides of the divide propagandists will dress up their campaign with the rhetoric of patriotism, selflessness and virtue.

[Tony Clifton]

Don't suppose you folks have seen the latest Samak on the Bangkok Post website? It's a bit of a jaw-dropper, but not sure if I can paste the whole article here:

PM Samak denies ordering crowd dispersal

Seriously rendered speechless after reading that one!

Circus clowns.

Every day they just can't help bringing more shame onto themselves and their families.

Quite funny to see Chalerm getting mad yesterday pointing his index in the same manner Chinese President Hu Jintao does. Seems all this bickering is seriously messing with his mind as it is interrupting his whiskey swigging time.

[h90]

With both extensive media coverage both locally and internationally Samak was forced to back down. He also almost certainly found himself facing opposotion to the idea from powerful figures in and outside the police as well as even in his own party from what I hear. That his threat actually gave the PAD their largest turnout to date was probably also a shock. Rumours of action across the South if the police went in would also give the government if not Samak pause for thought.

Of course he could send them in on a weekday morning when there are few demonstrators but uit would inevitably only inflame the situation in the medium to long term. Now is probably time to confirm there will be no second constitution ammendment bill at this stage and time for the PAD to then go home. Of course this is not will happen as the Chidchobniks will not accept leaving the ammendment until later and the PAD will not go home at least until the government state no ammendment now.

With a rapidly deteriorating economic situtation the country could do with some leadership and capable ministers. A true government of national unity with all politcal differences put aside would probably be about the only thing that could achieve this right now imho. However, no doubt we will just get more of the same until a few deaths result, and it is not exactly helped by a PM who says something one day and then denies it the next. This whole we will smash them statement that went all round the world will only further convince outsiders that Thailand is not ready for investment yet and will, and this will annoy the more intelligent TRT/PPP supporters, furhter erode to some degree the democracy is on our side arguement of the PPP in the international arena where democracy is viewed as more than just elections.

Of course democracy is about just more than elections, but the peoples' mandate is a precondition.The PAD protestors, despite their cynical and unsavoury leadership) have every right to demonstrate peacefully but they do not have the right to dictate policy to an elected government.I have no doubt incidentally that some within the PAD leadership were disappointed they were unable to provoke a violent response, and even now some influential voices are calling for the overthrow of the current legitimate government.Those with longer memories will know how the irresponsible Chamlong was ready to spill the blood of his young supporters back in 1992.It's all fairly foolish in my view since Samak has now a good understanding with the military.Incidentally Hammered as someone closely involved in monitoring international investment in Thailand I can assure you with absolute certainty that the major concern is not the volatile PM(he can be elected out of office) but the ease with which popular democracy can be easily overturned here by rogue generals and vested interest mobs.One thing you can be certain about on all sides of the divide propagandists will dress up their campaign with the rhetoric of patriotism, selflessness and virtue.

And again, the purpose of changing the constitution is to avoid that the PPP get disbanded due to electional fraud. So this is not an elected government, that is a criminal government. You can't blame it on Chamlong that the government in 1992 shoot. Only the 1992 government is to blame. And the government broke in 1992.

[Old Man River]

Incidentally, as someone closely involved in monitoring international investment in Thailand I can assure you with absolute certainty that the major concern is not the volatile PM(he can be elected out of office) but the ease with which popular democracy can be easily overturned here by rogue generals and vested interest mobs.

I agree and would add to this that this previous military government, from an investor's standpoint, was the worst. They seized power under the premise of saving the country and then went on to economically attempt to destroy it via xenophobic policies. The only thing I like about the current government is their attempt to bring back foreign investment to Thailand.

[h90]

Don't suppose you folks have seen the latest Samak on the Bangkok Post website? It's a bit of a jaw-dropper, but not sure if I can paste the whole article here:

PM Samak denies ordering crowd dispersal

Seriously rendered speechless after reading that one!

Circus clowns.

Every day they just can't help bringing more shame onto themselves and their families.

Quite funny to see Chalerm getting mad yesterday pointing his index in the same manner Chinese President Hu Jintao does. Seems all this bickering is seriously messing with his mind as it is interrupting his whiskey swigging time.

You are insulting Circus clowns.

[h90]

Incidentally, as someone closely involved in monitoring international investment in Thailand I can assure you with absolute certainty that the major concern is not the volatile PM(he can be elected out of office) but the ease with which popular democracy can be easily overturned here by rogue generals and vested interest mobs.

I agree and would add to this that this previous military government, from an investor's standpoint, was the worst. They seized power under the premise of saving the country and then went on to economically attempt to destroy it via xenophobic policies. The only thing I like about the current government is their attempt to bring back foreign investment to Thailand.

I don't see any reason to believe that this government can do better for the economic than the Thaksin government, which brought down the growing rate to the lowest level since the 1997 crises.

[younghusband]

And again, the purpose of changing the constitution is to avoid that the PPP get disbanded due to electional fraud. So this is not an elected government, that is a criminal government. You can't blame it on Chamlong that the government in 1992 shoot. Only the 1992 government is to blame. And the government broke in 1992.

To the extent I understand your rather confusing post you are mistaken.Whatever the endemic abuses in Thai elections, the PPP victory was seen by unbiased observers as broadly fair.As to Chamlong in 1992, though I suspect your query is based on lack of English comprehension, I was not blaming Suchinda's crimes on him but pointing out his complete lack of responsibility to his young supporters in his anxiety to achieve political objectives.This is a matter of record.

Edited June 1, 2008 by younghusband

[h90]

Protest 'must move'

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej changed tack in his Sunday TV broadcast, saying that the PAD street protest has to move but he will never use force to move it.

"Unarmed police" will negotiate with protesters of the People's Alliance for Democracy, he said, and "ask" them to move to another location where they would not cause traffic problems and inconvenience to Royal

family members.

In his weekly Speaking in Samak's Style show, the premier showed a strong contrast with a special TV speech on Saturday morning where he vowed to use riot police to force the end of the PAD protest.

But he insisted that members of the coalition which is demanding his ouster have been "violating several laws" since protests began last Sunday.

"Unarmed police will negotiate and ask them to dismantle their makeshift tents," he said. "If they don't, police will help in removing them to open the road for traffic.

"Nobody cares if they continue the rally elsewhere."

The PAD mob, which varies between several hundred and several thousand protesters, is encamped in front of the United Nations headquartaers on Ratchadamnoen Nok Avenue in the old (Rattanakosin) section of Bangkok. The prime minister and many residents believe the protest is inconveniencing motorists and the general public.

Mr Samak also claimed that the protest has caused inconvenience to Royal family members as they also use the road frequently and must now must detour.

"Protesters should be ashamed of themselves" because students are also having difficulty traveling to schools near the rally site. Thammasat University is accessed from the area of the site, as well as ordinary schools in the area.

He said if the protesters agree to dismantle their tents and other obstacles from the area,

the event will be telecast for the people throughout the world to witness.

However, he said he would not allow the event to be brought up at a United Nations session.

Mr Samak repeated that it remains government policy to rewrite the 2007 constitution. (BangkokPost.com, TNA)

Beside that I can't find any evidence that the UN want to speak about that, HOW would Samak the clown prevent the UN from speaking about it, if they want?

Maybe they (Samak the clown, and Chalerm the clown) should visit a specialist for mental problem?

[h90]

And again, the purpose of changing the constitution is to avoid that the PPP get disbanded due to electional fraud. So this is not an elected government, that is a criminal government. You can't blame it on Chamlong that the government in 1992 shoot. Only the 1992 government is to blame. And the government broke in 1992.

To the extent I understand your rather confusing post you are mistaken.Whatever the endemic abuses in Thai elections, the PPP victory was seen by unbiased observers as broadly fair.As to Chamlong in 1992, though I suspect your query is based on lack of English comprehension, I was not blaming Suchinda's crimes on him but pointing out his complete lack of responsibility to his young supporters in his anxiety to achieve political objectives.This is a matter of record.

Your unbiased observers spoke of massive fraud as it seemed that the Democrats win and changed the news in Orwells 1984 style as they saw PPP winning.

Whatever some observer say, it is very well known and no secret that they paid all the Issan. There are videos, in some villages they went the street up and down with a pickup with speaker and told it. I wouldn't say that without the payments noone would have vote for PPP, but for sure less.

As for 1992 it might not been possible to see what Suchinda will do. But after Suchinda did it, it might be worth a discussion if it might be worth the human lifes to remove him. He might had killed more people if he stays in government.