Government Officials And Their 'tea Money!'

[ajannick]

Hi All,

I have just finished the process of entering one of my daughters, who was born outside of Thailand, into my wife's Blue TB book. As well as the correct paper work we also had to take along the VH Man and a grade CS3 or above Thai Teacher. Although the process went failry smoothly, we did have to make a few trips and phone calls to the Unphur office before my daughter was entered into the TB book. Afterwards, the stoney faced, government official pointed out to my wife that we should have given her an envelope with some money in and the next time we visited her office she would be expecting this from us.

Now I know this (envelope passing) happends all the time in Thailand but is it not usually for favors rather than someone just doing their job? I have no intension of giving her anything and think that she has a cheek to inform my wife of her made up protocol.

Rant over.

Nick.

[Guest]

Tea Money at one time was required for any kind of transaction involving the bureaucracy (I remember paying 500 baht to get my car registered in less than 2 days). This has died down but still exists of course. Demanding tea money is a bit out of order though, as a hint is usually enough. Sometimes its worth oiling the wheels.

Edited February 25, 2008 by Guest

[torrenova]

As you don't have to go back just let the old cow stew.

[Krub]

As you don't have to go back just let the old cow stew.

He probably will need the 'old cow' again as the Amphur is the place which issues various official documents.

Better not be in their black books it is not worth the possible aggravation later on when he will need a certificate of some sort.

Edited February 25, 2008 by Krub

[Artisi]

I tend to take a philosophical view of this old custom where you once paid for all bureaucratic dealings, if I get good polite service without any agro' I will sometimes (more often than not) pass a couple of 100 over the counter as a sign of thanks. Remember these people are very lowly paid.

[lopburi3]

There should not be tea money paid for normal service.

[wca01]

In Thailand confronted with "big" problems, tea money can be the key to solve the problem.

WCA

[lopburi3]

That is not tea money - that is a bribe.

[Guest]

Sorry but I don't see the difference. When I first arrived here more than 20 years afo, nothing could be done in any government office without providing tea money up front - of course its a bribe, one and the same thing. Mostly it was done to speed up the paperwork. My experience with registering a car (estimated time without a backhander was 2-3 days); getting my first driving licence (told me to wait a week unless extra payment was made); clearing a simple item through the customs post office at Hualumpong (500 baht to the boss or it would take forever) etc etc. Nowadays, the Thai civil service are pretty efficient and often tea-money-free. Thailand issues passports, ID cards, D/Ls etc much faster than many western nations. My most recent experience of paying tea money (or a bribe) was up country to a land department official who was a charming guy of the old school who did the paperwork while I waited, on a table by the river over a cold drink.

[lopburi3]

Well I have been here almost 40 years, on and off, and have never had to pay tea money of any kind. If you want special (faster service) yes, that was often the policy. But it got done without payment (unlike in the PI where is was needed to even get the basic things done). If you are paying to break the laws (as big troubles would indicate) it is a bribe - not a payment for overtime charges or a good service tip.

[Guest]

I bow to your experience ) and as I've never asked for any illegal service I can't argue about your definitions too

[keestha]

Well I have been here almost 40 years, on and off, and have never had to pay tea money of any kind.

Am I right in presuming that you have never had a business in Thailand?

[lopburi3]

I have never run a business in Thailand. Nor was the thread about running a business.

[Big A]

Next time, stick some Anthrax powder in the old hag's envelope!!

[jstumbo]

I tend to take a philosophical view of this old custom where you once paid for all bureaucratic dealings, if I get good polite service without any agro' I will sometimes (more often than not) pass a couple of 100 over the counter as a sign of thanks. Remember these people are very lowly paid.

They may be lowly paid, but if they get 100 baht per transaction they perform in the way tea money, then they would be highly paid.

[Samuian]

Can't believe what I read here - in another thread people are ranting on about the corrupt figures in the government (Yongyuth-"the refrigerator man") and in the next thread (here) people condone bribing government officials.... just can't believe it - if it serves ones very own needs... it o.k. - is it?

[astral]

I find it is better not to be present for local government interaction.

With a foreign face they automatically expect money, or MORE money.

Let your wife handle such matters alone.

She will know how much is appropriate.

[greenmember]

My husband still talks about tea money up front. Even though things have changed, someone somewhere still demands.

He says, years ago, the government officers were forced to change their behaviors. They should understand that their role is to serve the public. Back then you were in the position of "begging" and they were your parents. This has changed obviously. The other day I went with him to a provincial office to certify some papers, I felt we were in a bank, warm service with smiles, nice facilities with queue system. In the former time, they didn't need to improve themselves and still went up to Level 11, the highest rank. Now they have to have exam or something like that. That is why they hate the person who brought troubles to them, who is Mr Thaksil.

[Amethyst]

I dont give tea money but i gave them a free voucher worth of 1000 baht dinner that i received from some restaurants lol

[Joe Joe]

Hi Folks,

I'm currently being subtly pressured for tea money to get a retirement extension by the immigration office at Mae Sai. They want me to show a 40k baht per month income plus 800k in the bank. The 800k is, by law, enough. Even though I've been lucky enough to get the 40k a month income and have the papers to prove it, I believe the guys at Mae Sai will find a reason to deny me the visa to get their tea money. My only hope of getting past these crooks is a phone call from Suan Phlu setting them straight. But the problem with that is getting someone to answer the phone in Bangkok and connecting me with the official high enough to tell these guys to back off. I got the feeling when I went to Suan Phlu with this problem a month ago that they didn't want to be bothered by a small faraway problem like mine. In the end I may be forced to pay the tea money to get the retirement extension. Is paying a bribe illegal? I would think so.

Joe Joe

[BigSnake]

Yep, almost anything for a little monet under the table. Greasing the Palm that feed you.

[jstumbo]

Is paying a bribe illegal? I would think so.

Sure, but if you are caught, you can just pay some tea money and get off.

Technically, if you are a US citizen, the US could try you for bribery of a foreign official.

[greenmember]

I wanted to say that my husband offers tea money to them up front. He says "If you help me to complete this, I'll "doo lair" (take care of) you. He knows how it works. He often pays after the work is done. In his job, he tells the person how much he will doo lair.

Edited February 26, 2008 by greenmember

[greenmember]

My husband said yesterday that you must drop the word "tea money". They now use the term "doo lair". I don't support this practice but sometimes you can't avoid.

[jasreeve17]

I also find it hard to believe the mentality of some people.

Complain about the politics of the place then condone similar behavour from lesser officials. Where do you think acceptance of this behaviour originates?

Illegal bribes should never be paid, just to make your life a little bit easier. Knowing how this country works you must get your affairs in good order and have ample time to achieve eash process. It will then work without any 'tea money' (awfully shameful name for an illegal and corrupt process).

Recently the missus sold some land in Nakon .... One of the head land office guys is notoriosly corrupt, and actually told my missus that she must give the underlings some cash, or else. He was rude and indignant about it, shouting at her in full view of others. Of course, she didn't pay, and she escalated the matter thus giving him a problem. When she goes back to sell some more land in future I'm sure that they won't like her, and will try to obstruct her in every way they can. When this happens we will again escalate it to higher and higher athorities until it is dealt with correctly. If everyone acted in this socially and legally responsible manner then Thai society would have some chance of developing in a way that benefits normal citizens rather than selfish and corrupt scum bags.

Just my thoughts.

[Artisi]

There is a big difference between a bribe and a tip- I look at a 100 here and there the same as paying a porter in a hotel to look after your luggage - is that a bribe?

[MJo]

I also find it hard to believe the mentality of some people.

Complain about the politics of the place then condone similar behavour from lesser officials. Where do you think acceptance of this behaviour originates?

Illegal bribes should never be paid, just to make your life a little bit easier. Knowing how this country works you must get your affairs in good order and have ample time to achieve eash process. It will then work without any 'tea money' (awfully shameful name for an illegal and corrupt process).

Recently the missus sold some land in Nakon .... One of the head land office guys is notoriosly corrupt, and actually told my missus that she must give the underlings some cash, or else. He was rude and indignant about it, shouting at her in full view of others. Of course, she didn't pay, and she escalated the matter thus giving him a problem. When she goes back to sell some more land in future I'm sure that they won't like her, and will try to obstruct her in every way they can. When this happens we will again escalate it to higher and higher athorities until it is dealt with correctly. If everyone acted in this socially and legally responsible manner then Thai society would have some chance of developing in a way that benefits normal citizens rather than selfish and corrupt scum bags.

Just my thoughts.

I guess it's these normal citizens that keep the team money system running. I'm afraid it's just the way of life for them. Afraid there is different understanding in thai what is tea money and what is bribe...

Havent paid anything in various government agencies and more than often i opt to the easies option for paying the "agents" who do the legwork for you and get your papers stamped. You know for sure there is some tea money involved but hey, i still never have paid any tea money ever !!!

Then is the traffic police. I have tried couple of times to get them to issue me official ticket without any luck. Anyone has ever managed to get one instead of giving in and paying them on the spot?

[Maizefarmer]

Tea money is part of Asian business culture - not only Thailand - but their is a way to go about it and way not to go about.

What would I do in a case like this - tell the old dear to go to hel_l, she went about it in quite the wrong way - this of course assumes that you have no reason to deal with her in the future - because she as hel_l ain;t going to be forgetting you 2!! - in which case a diplomatic apology and an enevelope will ensure things go very soothly next time round.

But bully for your wife, 10 out of 10 for her - she stood up for you. I know more than few ex-pats whose other halfs would be nagging them to pay the tea-money

Edited February 29, 2008 by Maizefarmer

[Joe Joe]

I also find it hard to believe the mentality of some people.

Complain about the politics of the place then condone similar behavour from lesser officials. Where do you think acceptance of this behaviour originates?

Illegal bribes should never be paid, just to make your life a little bit easier. Knowing how this country works you must get your affairs in good order and have ample time to achieve eash process. It will then work without any 'tea money' (awfully shameful name for an illegal and corrupt process).

Recently the missus sold some land in Nakon .... One of the head land office guys is notoriosly corrupt, and actually told my missus that she must give the underlings some cash, or else. He was rude and indignant about it, shouting at her in full view of others. Of course, she didn't pay, and she escalated the matter thus giving him a problem. When she goes back to sell some more land in future I'm sure that they won't like her, and will try to obstruct her in every way they can. When this happens we will again escalate it to higher and higher athorities until it is dealt with correctly. If everyone acted in this socially and legally responsible manner then Thai society would have some chance of developing in a way that benefits normal citizens rather than selfish and corrupt scum bags.

Just my thoughts.

I'm being pressured to pay tea money to two immigration officers at Mae Sai for a retirement extension. If I am denied the extension they can say, to an inquiring official from Bangkok immigration, that they refused me because I showed up dirty and half drunk. They really do have me in a no choice situation

[pampal]

Bakhsheesh