To Get Involved Or Not To Get Involved?

[mssabai]

Soooo, it goes like this. I have a friend who works in a bungalow and bar in Koh Phangan. I go down and see her occasionally as my favourite dog lives there (sad I know). I like to catch up on the gossip when I am down there. The boys on that beach are pretty wild and it keeps me entertained hearing about their latest escapades. So I went down last week for a catch up. My friend got onto the subject of three swedish girls who had been there for a while - all of whom were dating boys (and yes they really are boys) who worked there. The longest relationship out of them all is 2 months...the oldest girl involved is about 22. You get the picture. So I have now been told that all 3 couples are planning on getting married so the boys can all get to Sweden. Of course I creased up when I heard this, until I heard that the youngest girl (19) has been trying for a baby, and that her boyfriend has been verbally abusing her about the fact that she has not got pregnant yet. Whhhhhaaaaaaaa?????? Now I know beach boys/ bar boys. I know what they get up to and what their ultimate aims are but for some reason this story is really upsetting me. I am not involved, I don't know these girls personally, but I feel like there is no one telling them that they are being ridiculous. I feel most for the youngest girl - she is obviously both completely immature and completely hoodwinked. There are no other people staying there who will get involved and her friends are the ones getting married so are in no position to help.

I feel helpless, I think if I got involved then it wouldn't be appreciated or listened to, but I feel like this girl might very well end up pregnant and married by the end of the month. Is there anything I can do to help or does she just have to learn the hard way? When should you or should you not get involved in situations you see like this?

[neion2000]

Soooo, it goes like this. I have a friend who works in a bungalow and bar in Koh Phangan. I go down and see her occasionally as my favourite dog lives there (sad I know). I like to catch up on the gossip when I am down there. The boys on that beach are pretty wild and it keeps me entertained hearing about their latest escapades. So I went down last week for a catch up. My friend got onto the subject of three swedish girls who had been there for a while - all of whom were dating boys (and yes they really are boys) who worked there. The longest relationship out of them all is 2 months...the oldest girl involved is about 22. You get the picture. So I have now been told that all 3 couples are planning on getting married so the boys can all get to Sweden. Of course I creased up when I heard this, until I heard that the youngest girl (19) has been trying for a baby, and that her boyfriend has been verbally abusing her about the fact that she has not got pregnant yet. Whhhhhaaaaaaaa?????? Now I know beach boys/ bar boys. I know what they get up to and what their ultimate aims are but for some reason this story is really upsetting me. I am not involved, I don't know these girls personally, but I feel like there is no one telling them that they are being ridiculous. I feel most for the youngest girl - she is obviously both completely immature and completely hoodwinked. There are no other people staying there who will get involved and her friends are the ones getting married so are in no position to help.

I feel helpless, I think if I got involved then it wouldn't be appreciated or listened to, but I feel like this girl might very well end up pregnant and married by the end of the month. Is there anything I can do to help or does she just have to learn the hard way? When should you or should you not get involved in situations you see like this?

You should say something, if they ignore what you tell them, then it's on them.. You can't say, or should not say anything after it goes all wrong, then you would be someone with no integrity!! Integrity for me in this case means, doing the right thing by telling your friend or this girl, what they don't know.. It's like if you knew the brakes on a friends car are not working properly, and you don't tell them, then they get into an accident, then it's now your fault...

Edited February 27, 2008 by neion2000

[Boo]

think of it this way, if when you were 19 a total stranger came up to you & told you you were making a big mistake & that your bloke sounded like a total arse, what would you have said to her & would you have taken any notice?

I understand your concern cause we have all seen the silly young (& sometimes not so young) bints making fools of themselves and watching it happen is like watching a train wreck in slow mo but ime, no matter how much experience you have or can give them, they wont (& usually don't want to listen).

Also, you only have the set up according to your friend, where did she get this info from, is it first hand or is it passed along gossip too in which case you may have 6th or 7th hand chinese whispers going on & the truth is far from what you have been told, it may well turn out to be untrue & all of these couples are in love & happy together, so I think you know what my advice is, but as per that famous thai saying, up to you

[neion2000]

What's up Boo? How you doing?

[mssabai]

think of it this way, if when you were 19 a total stranger came up to you & told you you were making a big mistake & that your bloke sounded like a total arse, what would you have said to her & would you have taken any notice?

I understand your concern cause we have all seen the silly young (& sometimes not so young) bints making fools of themselves and watching it happen is like watching a train wreck in slow mo but ime, no matter how much experience you have or can give them, they wont (& usually don't want to listen).

Also, you only have the set up according to your friend, where did she get this info from, is it first hand or is it passed along gossip too in which case you may have 6th or 7th hand chinese whispers going on & the truth is far from what you have been told, it may well turn out to be untrue & all of these couples are in love & happy together, so I think you know what my advice is, but as per that famous thai saying, up to you

Unfortunately it's all true..I have seen it all start up from the beginning - it is only the impending marriages and the baby thing that is news to me. I have known all the boys involved from before and would not set any of them up with my worst enemy. Yes these girls are stupid bints, but I also know the ways these boys work and they aint stupid...well they are, but not when working out how to get a girl hooked on them.

The problem with saying something in this kind of situation Neion is that often here it ends up being the person with the good intentions who ends up in the sh*t. The girls don't listen to you and you get a reputation as a gossip and a trouble maker. Last girl I knew her stuck her nose into a very similar situation ended up getting run off the island.

So yeah Boo, I think I agree with you. It makes me feel crap to stand by, and a little too Thai to tell you the truth, but do not think I would get listened to.

Agoo - eh??? Dog no sad. Dog no need home. Forget about dog. OK?

[Momo8]

Have to agree with Boo on this one.She makes perfect sense.

You are not these girls' mother and even if you were I doubt they would listen to you.The holiday bling with these girls could have serious repercussions but unless they are your close friends you won't change anything.You are only setting yourself up.

Ignore it if you can and be an observer.People learn from their own mistakes and experiences and who is anyone to give unwanted advice or to judge.I know this is hard but people do want to get involved and help out but you need to look after yourself here too or maybe you will not get such a warm welcome next time you go back.

At that young age things can change quickly too from madly in lust to 'I hate your guts'.How old are these 'boys' by the way?

[Boo]

So yeah Boo, I think I agree with you. It makes me feel crap to stand by, and a little too Thai to tell you the truth, but do not think I would get listened to.

Last girl I knew her stuck her nose into a very similar situation ended up getting run off the island.

I know people knock thais sometimes for turning a blind eye to a lot of things but your second quote is the mian reason why imo, (particually on a place like KPG or small village) they have to live in the area & so do you. If you were on holiday & never planning to return then yeah, go for it but you plan to make your life there so you have to chose if these girls are worth putting yourself in the firing line, could you handle potentially being threatened by these boys when/if their gf's take your advice or when the gf's go home & tell their teeraks what the nasty Englsih girl said about them??? (They sound stupid enough to do this imo) . I just think that if these girls are old enough to be able to travel & live abroad in a place like thailand & make the descision to marry then they have to be masters of their own fate.

I share your frustration & sense of concern though but sometimes your own well being has to come first.

[mssabai]

Have to agree with Boo on this one.She makes perfect sense.

You are not these girls' mother and even if you were I doubt they would listen to you.The holiday bling with these girls could have serious repercussions but unless they are your close friends you won't change anything.You are only setting yourself up.

Ignore it if you can and be an observer.People learn from their own mistakes and experiences and who is anyone to give unwanted advice or to judge.I know this is hard but people do want to get involved and help out but you need to look after yourself here too or maybe you will not get such a warm welcome next time you go back.

At that young age things can change quickly too from madly in lust to 'I hate your guts'.How old are these 'boys' by the way?

Errrm, I would say between 24 and 30. Boys is definitely the operative word though - I use it to describe pretty much any of my peers anyway - however there is no way any of these boys could be described as men.

Tsk. As I say, I have heard about loads of these stories before but this one gets to me for some reason. Maybe I am hormonal!

But yeah Boo, I do get your point, perhaps it is more the island mentality than the Thai one - it just sucks to feel helpless though. No I don't really want to risk these boys wrath. I am not scared but would be risking it when the girls involved are most likely going to ignore me anyway! Have another bucket ladies and carry on with the wedding plans while I go and quietly despair of any normal men ever appearing on this island. I am most definitely hormonal.

[Momo8]

You could always get your friend to drop them a hint after all she seems to know all the goings on.As an outsider I suggest you stay out of this it's not your business.The messenger always gets shot.Enjoy your stay and be a people watcher not an aggressor which is what you are going to be perceived as being.

You don't know these girls or these 'boys' and hey you may end up another beach statistic.

Don't hope to change the world.You are not god.Rough advice but sensible advice.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Momo8

[mssabai]

You could always get your friend to drop them a hint after all she seems to know all the goings on.As an outsider I suggest you stay out of this it's not your business.The messenger always gets shot.Enjoy your stay and be a people watcher not an aggressor which is what you are going to be perceived as being.

You don't know these girls or these 'boys' and hey you may end up another beach statistic.

Don't hope to change the world.You are not god.Rough advice but sensible advice.

My friend is Thai and will definitely not say anything. Unfortunately I am not staying. I live and work here and just get sick occasionally when I see all this happening, but am unable to to help in the slightest. I don't think I am trying to play god or to change the world. I just feel genuinely sorry for the youngest girl. She always seems quite sweet and now she is terrified of what her boyfriend is going to do if she doesn't get pregnant.

What do you mean by beach statistic?

[GuestHouse]

I don't mind getting involved ... that is if the guy's firing blanks.

Tell this young 19 year old Swedish girl that you'v found a sperm donor ... but just let her know I've run out of the bottled stuff, she'll have to have draught.

[Momo8]

I don't mind getting involved ... that is if the guy's firing blanks.

Tell this young 19 year old Swedish girl that you'v found a sperm donor ... but just let her know I've run out of the bottled stuff, she'll have to have draught.

Oh do shut up Bogey.

You stir things up in a small island community and you take the consequences.Beware.You don't know these people and an outsider being seen as stirring things up,well,women have been raped and murdered for much less especially with what you describe as 'young wild boys'.Hmmm

[girlx]

(you probably know already) i agree with those who are telling you to keep it quiet. there is a girl on my beach who is giving up a promising career in the medical field to stay with the number one beach boy here, who is a drug dealer/addict, physically and emotionally abusive, philandering, etc. (guess who). she is a nice girl but all i can think every time i see her is "you poor stupid thing". that's just one situation at the mo. i would ideally like to help all these girls (as i would hope someone would help me), but i have learned from past experience that you HAVE to keep your mouth shut about these things and let natural selection take it's course, because the girls won't believe you anyway and flounce back to their boyfriends saying "x said...", and then everyone turns against you. as you know mssabai my best friend here learned the hard way. i have been stupid myself in the past, you have to let others' learn their own way. if they don't see anything wrong with hooking up with beach boys, getting married in a short amount of time, and getting pregnant at a young age, then they aren't too smart anyway. you can't help them.

there is always the anonymous email option though, if you have their address. google it. there is a small chance that someone else could be inadvertently blamed for that though. thais aren't always interested in the truth. and most likely the girls would ignore it anyway.

while I go and quietly despair of any normal men ever appearing on this island.

oh honey, you and me both. but really, we know better don't we? that's why i am planning to spend at least half the year elsewhere.

Edited February 27, 2008 by girlx

[girlx]

I don't mind getting involved ... that is if the guy's firing blanks.

Tell this young 19 year old Swedish girl that you'v found a sperm donor ... but just let her know I've run out of the bottled stuff, she'll have to have draught.

that's the first time i have ever seen you post something totally unhelpful itchy!

[HomeisThai]

This is not good.

When I was there and seeing one beach boy I would see the same thing.

It sounds like their caught up in it all and not thinking straight, not realising that once the boys get to Sweden they will return in a month and never want to go back because of the cold(i know two boys who done this, one was the guy i was seeing).

I dont know what to suggest. Personally I would maybe try and make friends with them away from the boys and just talk about what youve seen over the years, then they can make their choice on what to do from that.

Its crazy the amount of young(usually Swedish or english) girls who goto Phangan/Samui etc and fall for the beach boys.

Can I ask what bar these boys work in, I know quite a few of the boys but I cant see it being any of them as when I was there not long ago none had girlfriends there(and how bored they all loooked lol)..x

[girlx]

Its crazy the amount of young(usually Swedish or english) girls who goto Phangan/Samui etc and fall for the beach boys.

it's true! it usually is swedish or english girls! and the occasional german! strange!

[britmaveric]

No use telling them, expect the worst and hope for the best. People need make their own mistakes.

[geriatrickid]

Beachboy + well intentioned farang interfering with conquests = violent reaction

Don't get involved unless you are prepared for the very very negative blowback. Yes, you are absolutely right and if I had a daughter doing that I'd be grateful if you said something, but that's me and you and alot of other enlightened folks. Unfortunately, you are dealing with beachboy culture and it has it's own social rules much like a gang does.

[meme]

Yes you must leave it alone.

I think this is part of the reason my husband and I remain mostly away from the beach, away from the drama. Dont get me wrong I like going there once a month and getting my ear full of goss. But there are too many sad stories where you want to slap the girls around and tell them to wake up! But as Boo says if you are not just here on vacation this could cause serious problems for you. After 5 years I realize how silly and naive I was when I first got here. If only we could keep others from making the same mistakes we have. But in this case you have to let them learn for themselves...not sure it ever gets easier turning a blind eye. For me I can just find solace in the fact that I am not making stupid decisions anymore! And found my boy very far from the beach!! (no offense to anyone with partners who work on the beach)

Now the big drama around here is who stole whos chickens!

Edited February 27, 2008 by meme

[sbk]

(you probably know already) i agree with those who are telling you to keep it quiet. there is a girl on my beach who is giving up a promising career in the medical field to stay with the number one beach boy here, who is a drug dealer/addict, physically and emotionally abusive, philandering, etc. (guess who). she is a nice girl but all i can think every time i see her is "you poor stupid thing". that's just one situation at the mo. i would ideally like to help all these girls (as i would hope someone would help me), but i have learned from past experience that you HAVE to keep your mouth shut about these things and let natural selection take it's course, because the girls won't believe you anyway and flounce back to their boyfriends saying "x said...", and then everyone turns against you. as you know mssabai my best friend here learned the hard way. i have been stupid myself in the past, you have to let others' learn their own way. if they don't see anything wrong with hooking up with beach boys, getting married in a short amount of time, and getting pregnant at a young age, then they aren't too smart anyway. you can't help them.

there is always the anonymous email option though, if you have their address. google it. there is a small chance that someone else could be inadvertently blamed for that though. thais aren't always interested in the truth. and most likely the girls would ignore it anyway.

while I go and quietly despair of any normal men ever appearing on this island.

oh honey, you and me both. but really, we know better don't we? that's why i am planning to spend at least half the year elsewhere.

There's plenty of normal men on this island, but you won't be meeting them in a bar on the beach. Same as with guys who end up with bargirls because all they do is hang out in bars. To be totally frank, the local Thai girls are (generally) smart enough to snap up the good ones right away, leaving the dregs behind.

Also, I would like to point out that, in large part, the "beachboy" culture is seperate and distinct from the local one, most of the boys who work in these places are not native to the island so have nothing invested in public opinion apart from their own beachboy clique. Therefor, any attempt to get them to alter their behavior towards more norms of behavior in Thai culture would come to naught, as they don't particularly care what the local culture thinks.

As for the foolish girls who are pledging their lives to wastrels, what makes you think they would have any more sense at home than they do here? Difference is, at least at home they might have families that care enough to intervene. then again, they might not. My advice, stay out of it. As other posters have already pointed out, it is highly doubtful they would listen to you anyway.

[alaina]

Perhaps someone has become secretly involved already and is slipping the 19 year old some birth control pills

You are trying to be compassionate, but even though what these girls are doing is dumb, it is what they want. We may want to think that they are young and naive, but some people want different things. Most people I know their age, even in their dumbest, most naive moment would not consider getting pregnant by someone that they have been together with for such a short time. Stay out of it, these girls most likely cannot be talked out of what they think they want.

[buffcoat]

It is to your credit that you are concerned but I would strongly agree with those warning you to stay out of things for your own health.

[GuestHouse]

I don't mind getting involved ... that is if the guy's firing blanks.

Tell this young 19 year old Swedish girl that you'v found a sperm donor ... but just let her know I've run out of the bottled stuff, she'll have to have draught.

Oh do shut up Bogey.

You stir things up in a small island community and you take the consequences. Beware.You don't know these people and an outsider being seen as stirring things up,well,women have been raped and murdered for much less especially with what you describe as 'young wild boys'.Hmmm

And where exactly did I mention 'Wild Young Boys?".... Hmmm

-----

Let's get things in perspective.

Unless anyone here has a very close relationship with the young woman who is making her own choices then it is highly unlikely that they are going to have any influence over her, her choices and her actions.

And what if she does get pregnant with some beach bum, its not the end of the world, nor is it the end of her life, she just gets to have a different life - The one she chose.

Not the life I would choose, perhaps not the life you would choose, but it is not our choice.

However, I suspect, and remember the report is all hearsay, that what we have here is a bunch of young women having a great time on holiday - they might have got in too deep, they might not, they might do stupid things, they might not.

Youth is and is not wasted on the young.

In an extension to what Boo has said - We've all of us gone of the rails before (I hope) - Who then among us wanted to listen to someone else's definition of good sense?

The problem I see here, is not the choices of the young woman, but the need for someone else to let others make their own choices in life.

(adds in a whisper.... I know people who smoke.... and....... someone who....... takes..... drugs!)

[isabelle17]

ahem.

I told myself I wasnt going to get involved with this thread...as I realized that some of the responses I might get would be...not so pleasant. But I will post this anyway.

My thai boyfriend used *keyword* to be a beachboy. Now I know what all of you are probably thinking (from what I noticed on the threads anyway.) I just want to say that a lot of the guys who do become beach boys...often get bored of it after a few years (just like my boyfriend did.) As he said, it's okay for awhile, but really, it becomes....not so great.

Anyway, hah. I honestly think that telling these girls that they are being foolish will NOT WORK. I think its ridiculous that her boyfriend is trying to get her pregnant. All I can say is I sure hope she is taking birth control pills....

I have had my fair share of bad experiences with some of those men on the beach. One of which turned out to be a murderer. And no, I did NOT date him. Thank god. So yes....SOME of them you HAVE to be careful around. Period. You have to be aware of your surroundings, and make sure that you get to know someone before jumping into relationships with them.

I have been with my boyfriend for around 3 years now. I did meet him when he worked on the beach, I wont deny it. If I honestly did not trust him or not want to be with him, I wouldnt be with him still. Theres a lot of fish in the sea, but out of all of the ones I could choose, why did I choose him? Well, for lots of reasons. I was not happy that he was a beach boy. I was upset with myself that I fell for a beach boy...but you cant totally choose who you "fall for" sometimes. I told him how I felt uncomfortable around some of his beach boy friends and thats when he decided, "Okay. I will do something else." Thank god for that.

So...you see...I think people have to realize that just because one person is associated with a certain group, doesnt mean they are "bad." I will say that most beach boys you DO have to watch out for. But there is that minority of them who you can trust. I know that many of you will totally disagree with me. Thats fine. All I am saying, is out of personal experience, I KNOW that not ALL of them are bad. BUT. If they are just trying to get money, a baby, or whatever from that girl, that is NOT OKAY. I think eventually these girls will realize how silly they are being. They will soon realize their mistakes. I think it wont help if someone else warns them. For them, it would probably be just like their parents telling them what and what not to do.

So...theres my 2 cents. Say what you will. I hate admitting to anyone that my boyfriend was previously a beach boy because they think im crazy. Well. Hah. Maybe I am! Baa lao!

I did meet this one girl who was dating a beach boy. She did not speak any Thai, and I overheard her boyfriend saying about this one other foreign girl that he thought she was just good enough for sex. I did not say anything to this falang girl about what her boyfriend said...I thought about it, I really did. But I just didnt tell her. I didnt think she would believe me and she was quite a bit older than me at the time. Wasnt a very friendly girl either (not that it really matters anyway...)

Oh, and I will say that understanding and speaking Thai really helps! You know what other people are saying about you...helps a lot...

[bina]

sounds like the volunteers we used to get on the kibbutz from the scandinavian countries: at that age, if they are travelling on their own, they are taking care of themselves.... dont get involved... they wont listen anyway... its all exotic and fun for them...

if its not someone's daughter that they asked u to keep an eye out for, then steer clear. even if its a friend's duaghter and they asked u to keep an eye on her, i would steer clear.... they dont listen, wont listen and its not really your problem unless violence occurs in front of your face....

remember, often, the way to hel_l is paved with good intentions that snowball and become a night mare for the one doing the 'saving'...

bina

israel

[mssabai]

Yep your all right - it is best to keep schtum and let these gals make their own mistakes. Think I will stay away from the place as well as I just cannot bear hearing anymore.

Isabelle I hear you, however to be honest it is very very hard to not make these generalisations when you see the kind of crap these boys pull every day. Some of my best friends are beach boys! They are not all evil, but lets just say they wouldn't be allowed 5 minutes alone with my sister.... Now I am not trying to justify their behavior, most of them are headonists purely out for their own pleasure, however I will say that many of them arrive on the beach pretty young after being brought up in a fairly normal Thai family with the normal codes of conduct and morals. They then go to work at x bar where their cousin x is working (the wages really are not bad for Thais - around 8-10k a month - same as you would get as a teacher, but with all the free drink you could ask for!). They then get to witness first hand the behavior of uninhibited 18 year old westerners after 4 buckets of sangsom. They are shocked (at first). They cannot believe that girls would parade themselves like they do - for them the kind of behavior seen on a normal night out down Footlights in Durham would be behavior only found at Bar Girl venues. To them these girls look like hookers, and often they are willing to be used like them. What they don't understand though is that there are subtle rules attached to this behavior, that not coming from the same society, they don't understand. Result = a very confused set of codes of conduct that combine some of the worst elements of Thai and worst elements of western cultures. I wasn't joking, I do have some good friends who are beach boys and for the most part they are seriously f*cked up. They will frequently trot out the line of maybe they should just settle down with a good Thai girl, and this would probably be the best thing for them. But no good Thai girl would ever look at them now, covered in tattoos and piercings as they are. They inhabit a strange border land between Thai and western cultures which means they are never fully adapted to either. They are not typical of all Thai men as sbk frequently tries to impress, they are a breed apart that should be treated with a lot of caution. Man, when I finally do my masters in Anthropology it so should be on beach boys eh??!

That is the sob story. That however does not excuse the disgusting behaviour that I frequently hear about, it's just another perspective. If your boy left the beach for you Isabelle then that is a pretty good sign. The only times I have seen beach boy/farang relationships work is when the man has done this. Good luck!

[mssabai]

(you probably know already) i agree with those who are telling you to keep it quiet. there is a girl on my beach who is giving up a promising career in the medical field to stay with the number one beach boy here, who is a drug dealer/addict, physically and emotionally abusive, philandering, etc. (guess who). she is a nice girl but all i can think every time i see her is "you poor stupid thing". that's just one situation at the mo. i would ideally like to help all these girls (as i would hope someone would help me), but i have learned from past experience that you HAVE to keep your mouth shut about these things and let natural selection take it's course, because the girls won't believe you anyway and flounce back to their boyfriends saying "x said...", and then everyone turns against you. as you know mssabai my best friend here learned the hard way. i have been stupid myself in the past, you have to let others' learn their own way. if they don't see anything wrong with hooking up with beach boys, getting married in a short amount of time, and getting pregnant at a young age, then they aren't too smart anyway. you can't help them.

there is always the anonymous email option though, if you have their address. google it. there is a small chance that someone else could be inadvertently blamed for that though. thais aren't always interested in the truth. and most likely the girls would ignore it anyway.

while I go and quietly despair of any normal men ever appearing on this island.

oh honey, you and me both. but really, we know better don't we? that's why i am planning to spend at least half the year elsewhere.

Yeeeeeeeeesh. I think I know who you are talking about. How delightful. I hope they will be very happy.

Shall we set up the Koh Phangan Home for Saved Women??? Could be like PAC, we would take in all the waifs and strays and give them contraceptive injection. Do some castrating at the same time

[isabelle17]

Yep your all right - it is best to keep schtum and let these gals make their own mistakes. Think I will stay away from the place as well as I just cannot bear hearing anymore.

Isabelle I hear you, however to be honest it is very very hard to not make these generalisations when you see the kind of crap these boys pull every day. Some of my best friends are beach boys! They are not all evil, but lets just say they wouldn't be allowed 5 minutes alone with my sister.... Now I am not trying to justify their behavior, most of them are headonists purely out for their own pleasure, however I will say that many of them arrive on the beach pretty young after being brought up in a fairly normal Thai family with the normal codes of conduct and morals. They then go to work at x bar where their cousin x is working (the wages really are not bad for Thais - around 8-10k a month - same as you would get as a teacher, but with all the free drink you could ask for!). They then get to witness first hand the behavior of uninhibited 18 year old westerners after 4 buckets of sangsom. They are shocked (at first). They cannot believe that girls would parade themselves like they do - for them the kind of behavior seen on a normal night out down Footlights in Durham would be behavior only found at Bar Girl venues. To them these girls look like hookers, and often they are willing to be used like them. What they don't understand though is that there are subtle rules attached to this behavior, that not coming from the same society, they don't understand. Result = a very confused set of codes of conduct that combine some of the worst elements of Thai and worst elements of western cultures. I wasn't joking, I do have some good friends who are beach boys and for the most part they are seriously f*cked up. They will frequently trot out the line of maybe they should just settle down with a good Thai girl, and this would probably be the best thing for them. But no good Thai girl would ever look at them now, covered in tattoos and piercings as they are. They inhabit a strange border land between Thai and western cultures which means they are never fully adapted to either. They are not typical of all Thai men as sbk frequently tries to impress, they are a breed apart that should be treated with a lot of caution. Man, when I finally do my masters in Anthropology it so should be on beach boys eh??!

That is the sob story. That however does not excuse the disgusting behaviour that I frequently hear about, it's just another perspective. If your boy left the beach for you Isabelle then that is a pretty good sign. The only times I have seen beach boy/farang relationships work is when the man has done this. Good luck!

What you are saying makes a very good point. I really agree with you that...for them I think it IS very confusing. But then again, I think for a lot of thai teenagers...life is very confusing. But yes, especially for the guys on the beach. Its like they live in a separate world from everyone else where half of them is Thai and half of them is somewhat westernized. If my boyfriend hadn't left working on the beach, I dont think I could have stayed with him to be quite honest. Because...what kind of life is that? Its a life for young guys who dont know what they want in life. My boyfriend left his hometown when he was 18. He looked around for a job, someone introduced him to the the beach. And boom, he started to work there. When there young and naive like that...and are looking for something "exciting" and "better" I can see why being a beach boy would be an "amazing" thing for them.

He still associates with some of his friends who work on the beach..which is fine because I know them fairly well. And...what I have found is that a lot of these guys come from small towns or villages that are boring and very isolated. I know my boyfriend came from a place like that and when he was younger he got so tired of living in his village and doing nothing practically every day. Cant blame him for that. In Thailand beach boys are not accepted into regular society because in some ways they behave more like the farangs do. But...honestly...who can blame them? If their parents are not there to watch them, and if they are surrounded by foreigners every day for a long time...it grows on them I guess.

Anyway, I just want to say I totally agree with what you say. And very true. The only way to get out of the rut they get stuck in is to quit working on the beach. Gosh. This gets me to thinking how I think its so unfair that so much of the world population has to be poor. I know that this is just the way it is, but it makes me sad thinking about it and the extremes that people will take just to get out of that situation.

[mssabai]

I know that this is just the way it is, but it makes me sad thinking about it and the extremes that people will take just to get out of that situation.

Lets not pull out the violins for them just yet . Free booze, free drugs, free boom boom, party every night - it's not exactly scavenging on rubbish dumps in Calcutta

[girlx]

I just want to say that a lot of the guys who do become beach boys...often get bored of it after a few years (just like my boyfriend did.) As he said, it's okay for awhile, but really, it becomes....not so great.

I agree with you, not all the boys should be lumped together as "bad". I know a couple who have turned out pretty well. In all of those cases though, their girlfriend asked them to leave the bar life (or made sure to join them in it), and in some cases took them back to the west with them. It's amazing the difference when they return to Thailand. They are so much more confident, reasonable, and respectful once they have seen firsthand our culture- something seems to click. But even just getting away from the throngs of irresponsible girls throwing themselves around drunkenly seems to help. I personally can't blame the boys for making the most of it. A different Swedish girl every night? Why not? Free alcohol and drugs? Popularity, easy hours, good money? Sure beats working 15 hours a day in a busy bungalow setup for 4500b a month. If I were a Thai man I would be a "beachboy" as well! I think it takes a lot of work to make a successful relationship with one of these guys but it is not impossible, and in some ways, since they have been exposed to farang culture so much, it might even be easier than with a more traditional Thai guy- those have their problems too. And you are right, for some of the boys after awhile that life starts to feel shallow and empty, and they start to want something more real. I do think they have to go through the bad boy phase first though.

There's plenty of normal men on this island, but you won't be meeting them in a bar on the beach. Same as with guys who end up with bargirls because all they do is hang out in bars. To be totally frank, the local Thai girls are (generally) smart enough to snap up the good ones right away, leaving the dregs behind.

Again, the "normal" Thai guys have their problems too. Most prevalent I have noticed, is that they are very controlling and abusive, coming from a background of very traditional and frankly misogynistic views. I prefer bar boys to some guy who expects me to become a subservient Thai wifey.

Man, when I finally do my masters in Anthropology it so should be on beach boys eh??!

That would be fascinating! Would love to read your thesis... I thought of writing a book from the perspective of a farang girl living amongst the beach culture in Thailand... it's on my list anyway.

Edited February 28, 2008 by girlx