Boy Don't Like School

[Lourens]

We have a boy, 13 years old, who do not want to go to school. We take him to school every day but we had a call from his teacher saying that he just wanders around outside and never goes to class. (This says a lot about the school system doesn’t it?) When we confronted him with this, he replied that he does not want to go to school anymore. Taking him to another school won’t solve the problem and I even thought we might enrol him in a private school. But nothing prevents him from simply leaving and not going to classes.

What can we do? I know of no school hostels where we can put him and he is still too young for the military. It was suggested that he should become a novice monk so that the temple can look after him. All this makes me feel terrible because it looks like we can not take care of him anymore. We tried explaining to him that an education is very important but his response is simply that he doesn’t like school. How do we motivate him? Do I pay him to go to school and do well to learn? He gets all the material things he needs (not wants). He also gets a lot of attention and affection from us and both his mother and I are deeply concerned about his well being. He is a clever boy if he puts his mind to it but I get the feeling that he thinks he is dumb. I tried teaching him English on more than one occasion but he just don’t want to learn.

Any ideas of what we can do to help this kid to get the education he deserves will be greatly appreciated.

[bina]

u might want to check out underlying problems: social problems with classmates, how he views himself, is this a sudden change (maybe something bad happened at school?) or always like this;

what does he prefer to do?? some kids really just dont want school and then maybe a different type of schooling like professional (getting a profession like mechanics or something) school is better for them. some kids have learning disabilites which frustrate them and then it becomes a circle that has to be broken with help from other sources.... kids with learning disabilities often cant learn the same way most kids do, so drop out, or become violent, or go for other types of activities, like sports... some just sit and do nothing... 13 is the age when this catches up to a child... before this, most kids manage to slide thru the school sysytems (in any country it seems to me) but by 13 when the schooling becomes more demanding, their lack of learning ability in the shcool suddenly causes problems....

dont always blame on the child or the school, its often a combination of those two, and u also as parents... try sitting down with him and his homework to see where the difficulties lay...

not sure of your nationality but i have a kid who exactly at that age almost dropped out of school in a passive way; now he is in a different kind of program inside his school and much improved. he also enrolled in a pre army program (well,we are in israel so this is a common activity for boys and girls) which surprisingly enough, did help him develop self confidence, physical strength, mental strenghth and reflected in his school learning. but its not for everyone. for some children this is too tough for them....

not liking school is a warning bell for u .... kids dont usually hate shcool and wander around outside w/o there being a good reason: a bully? getting picked on... feeling stupid... lots of things... especially if he isnt running away to do something else like kids who sneak out of school to go to the beach or some other activity (or drugs or something)...

is he artistically inclined? my thai husband used to run away from school cause he thought he was stupid (it was the school system who is stupid but thats my own opinion) and do muay thai... or go fishing... but he was beaten by his father and by the teacher for being stupid so...

bina

israel

[bino]

I didn't like school much either when I was 13 / 8th grade, but I did like all of my friends, and was starting to really like the girls!

"He does not want to go to school anymore" is not a valid reason. If he has been going to school regularily from Kindergarten until now, there has to be something deeper behind this causing the change in his attitude. Perhaps a psychiatrist could help?

Or- tell him that if he doesn't want to go to school, he has to work. Make him dig ditches all day long in the hot sun (explaining that this is the only kind of job that he will ever have without any education). He will probably be back at school before the week is out.!

[greenmember]

You said "Taking him to another school won't solve the problem" but are the other schools have better quality? Better teachers? My husband had to send and pick our son everyday as the better school is 30 minutes away by car. Schools near our home have not excellent teachers, students are not bright and some boys often argue and fight. Our child had no big issue like yours but he once said "Mei yak pai rong rian-I don't like to go to school". After the change, he said he enjoyed studying at the new school and now we sent him to an even better one.

Recently he buried himself to games and didn't care about books. His results dropped and exactly he's now 13. Thanks Bina for pointing out this. We asked our daughter to help to talk to him. We sit down with him and asked what problems are. Seems that he listens to the sister and we noticed the change.

Our other son has big and strong body so, when he was still in local school, he protected himself (fought against them) after bad classmates threatened him. He came to the level that he had a knife in his motorbike! Needless to say we sent him to another school 100km from home. He stays in the school dorm and that helps him to allow more time for studying.

[mellow1]

At 13 years of age it will be hard to set up a reward or punishment (taking away privileges) system, but this is what you must do. Nothing in life is free, and this applies also to your son. It's summer vacation in about a week here in Thailand, and therefore a great time for your son to go out and get a job. You should stop all monetary aid, and let him fend for himself. If he disagrees, you could always take away TV, PC,PS2, etc. because it costs electricity, and if someone doesn't work, they can't afford it. Either way you will have to figure out a system which applies to your family. My son is 8yrs. old and is on such a system. He knows that if his grades fall below 80%GPA, his allowance will be cut in half until they are brought back up. School is his current job, and his responsibility. If he doesn't do his job, his income will suffer. There have been times in the past where homework wasn't done and a pattern was starting to develop. I then took PS2 away for a week. He was told if it continued the TV would be next. Never got so far, as the TV being taken away for a week, he did loose the PS2 twice for a week though. My wife and I work with him on homework, and we teach reading , Math, etc. as should you and your wife. If a child falls behind his classmates, it will cause them to hate school. There may also be a problem at school, and a change there may help also, we went though a change of school a year and a half ago. It helped a lot, and my son likes his present school. These are just examples of what we do and what has worked for us. A 13 yr. old and an 8 yr. old are different of course, and will have to be dealt with in a different manner. I am not an expert in this, I am learning along with my 8 yr. old. I would caution however in getting too harsh, such as taking away all privileges. If your son has nothing left to take away, he also has nothing left to loose. You certainly have a tremendous problem on your hands, and I wish you the best of luck.

[PeaceBlondie]

I suggest that you transfer your boy to another school, because his avoidance of the classroom suggests he is afraid or terrorized in there. Consider drugs and alcohol (my son was addicted by age 14). Show him you care, and tell him you love him, but do not be too easy on him. Most of all, take any free advice on internet forums as worth no more than what you pay for it. That will be 25 satang, please.

Also, if this is a typical Thai school, remember how difficult/impossible it is to fail. If he were that stupid, you could have realized it long ago. He may be bored, but not stupid.

[Lourens]

Thank you all for the comments and advice. Some of it makes a lot of sense and is definitely worth considering.

As it happens, I was just attending an Ophthalmology symposium and one of the topics discussed there was on Dyslexia. The numbers quoted of people who suffer from this condition was staggering. Up to 44% of whole populations suffer from dyslexia in some form or other. But here is the interesting bit:

"Dyslexia is the term used when people have difficulty learning to read, even though they are smart enough and are motivated to learn. It is also the inability of the brain’s verbal language or auditory processing centers to accurately decode print or phonetically make the connection between the written symbols for words and their appropriate sounds. This can lead to frustrations for the child and ultimately just giving up trying to learn anything.

Chromogen lenses are the best treatment for dyslexia, since they help with the rearrangement of the brain’s ability to grasp the information when reading therefore they can help with the reading and spelling.

Dyslexia has nothing to do with refractive errors or other eye problems; it is a learning disability. It is neither an illness, or genetic flaw nor malformation of the brain. Diagnosis of dyslexia involves reviewing the child’s processing of information from seeing, hearing and participating in activities.

Dyslexia can be treated but not cured."

Now for the next question: Is there any place in Thailnd where I can take my child to have him tested for dyslexia? And how can we apply this knowledge to broaden the understanding of dyslexia among people with children with learning difficulties?

[Oleg_Rus]

Lourens, sorry to hear that, but lighten up, man!

as you probably heard "there are no bad pupils, there are bad teachers" Go to school and ask the person in charge what is going on. Don't be shy, seo nai, or what the hel_l they mix it.

I give you an example - there's a school in Bkk, and the big white farang in charge (nick-named himself after "Rock me Amadeus" singer) made such a mess, that kids were separated by groups of "dady's car" - so the kids with Honda CRV dad were almost outcast. No wonder soon that school lost $$$

Another one - school, called after little Chinese speaking city-island. My friends' son didn't perform as well as his dad wished, and the nice teacher claim that his beloved one is "short attention spin" + AAD + AHD + whatever ... in fact - she just sux.

So, my point is - if there's something wrong with school - go and dig it. do't claim your son is "artistic", altruistic" animalistic, aqua-libristic and so goes crap ... Tell them - "if you cannot teach - go sell somtam, and don't kao neaw my joystick"

[technocracy]

Lourens,

I cannot help you in terms of testing for Dyslexia but speaking from a dyslexic view point I can know exactly the kind of problems that dyslexia causes. I was never diagnosed until 8years ago as I actually investigated it as a friend of mine who has minor dyslexia told me that he thought I was dyslexic. When I attended school in the late 70s, early 80s if you couldn't read very well you were treated as stupid - no further investigation needed!

I look back at my treatment in school from teachers and it still makes me angry - adding to the fact I am also left handed made it worse - they also tried to force me to write with my right hand! Thankfully in my younger years my mother didn't give up and she used to constantly teach me after school using reading cards.

Dyslexia affects people in different ways and the symptoms vary such for instance one of my symptoms is I cannot read out loud. By this I mean when I try to read something from book or whatever out loud I will make untold amounts of mistakes, why? Well it's hard to describe but it like my eyes cannot fix themselves on what I need to read - they will pickup words from other parts of the paragraph and my brain will process them and I'll speak them. Even if I follow the text with my finger I'll still endup reading other sentences. Like I say it's hard to describe but when I try to read something out loud I sound as though I cannot read english! This trait also came into my writing and if I thought of a sentence I could not write it down accurately - I would invaribly put a word out of order or mistake of some description. I used to write, re-write and re-write my work 3 or 4 times because I'd make so many errors.

Also when I read black writing on a white background I find it very difficult follow the text - especially on computers I have to highlight the text so it is white text on a blue or black background - this I can read far easier and also doesn't strain my eyes.

As a person I am intelligent and in school I excelled in design, art and computers - but was always being critised for my writing and reading abilities. Funnily enough I was in the top 'group' in English in high school however the teachers instead of thinking 'why does this boy have such a good grasp of the language and grammar but his reading and writing abilities are terrible?' they just thought I was lazy and treated me with disdain accordingly. The fact that I could not and still cannot either read accurately out loud or write well just didn't register in there concerns. As high school progressed these attempt to force me to read and making me re-write work just pushed me further away from wanting to take part in lessons, any lessons unless it was design, art and computers! Just to note - I wasn't in any 'wrong' crowds, bullied or anything else of this manner I was a normal sensible student.

If you can locate a dyslexic testing centre I think it would be a very wise thing to do since you need to catch it early, when you are old enough you brain learns to compensate with most of the dyslexic affects but by this time your education years have passed you by.

For me when I was diagnosed at 28 - I cannot describe the emotion that ran through me it was a mixture of relief, happiness but also anger. The relief & happiness was I now knew why I had had so many difficulties and why my schooling had been such a fight but on the flip side the anger was my treatment throughout school and the fact that due to my dyslexia I had been treated as lazy or stupid regardless. I left school at 16 as I had no interest of wanting to continue learning - I mean why would I when I was treated this way? If I had been diagnosed at a young age and my dyslexia could of been controlled I quite possible would of gone on to college, university etc as when I was in middle school this was my aim.

On the positive side, fortunately for me the mixture of my general level of intelligence, computer knowledge and hard work I have made my life a success. But even so I know it would of been a far easier if I receieved assistance instead of just punishment. Without knowing further about your boy I cannot comment on his possible dyslexia but his not wanting to go school rings a very large bell in my head.

[PeaceBlondie]

One of my best friends was not diagnosed as dyslexic until he had earned three master's degrees in business and law.

We had an American exchange student return to Thailand and tell how, when she had been a student here, she had undiagnosed dyslexia. Later, several of the long-term teachers admitted they had never heard of dyslexia.

I suggest to the OP that the parents of the boy have more than one long talk with the teachers.

[bina]

there is more then dyslexia; three out of three of my kids are learning impaired in one way or an other: however, the oldest, who hated school, got away for most of the school w/o doing too much work; we switched her to an artist/humanties semi private school in 8th grade after discovering that... best thing we ever did.

the youngest was moved by gov. educ. committee to a spec. ed class in regular school, best thing that ever happened for her. the middle boy sort of fell bwteen a lot of chairs... no violence or vandalism but avoiding classes, moping around, etc. he has been moved to a sort of mini school within his high school that is set up to help kids (mostly boys since more boys than girls ahve certain types of learning disabilities and /or behavior issues that go along with that) that are on the verge of failing but are in need and are willing to get that 'extra help and push'... nothing goes smooth: he is failing geography at the moment (its his last year of school and unfortunately this is also when many boys here start to act up, its pre army nerves etc) but he knows that this is his last chance to do his work until he will be 21 and then he will have to retest again in order to go to uni. so its his choice now, not ours. the youngest is getting extra help by professional tutor for children with cognitive disorders in addition to us helping her and spec. ed.

she is super intelligent but gives up very easily, and prefers her friends to school work even in class.

each child has his own 'thing' (its genetics from my ex who was only recently diagnosed as having learning disabilties, back then, israel didnt believe in this either....): the oldest doesnt read or write but does everything orally and in presentations and is heavily in to photography, art and design, and used a tape recorder when in class (she is now in army as a soldier teacher's helper for problematic children in needy areas); my son just needed extra time and quiet for doing work and some extra help in spatial things, and organizational skills, sequences, and some decent teaching methods. the youngest has the most problems including dyslexia, organizational /spatial problems, telling time/time management (she's 14!), problem solving of any sort, linear thinking, attention deficit , short term memory is very short. on the other hand, she can choreograph complex dances and remember them (her body remembers the patterns), is emotionally super sensitive to others', is empathetic (overly so), and computer doesnt help her dyslexia any. she is tested orally or with what is called: over writing i.e. she speaks to someone who transcribes her answers. this is for testing purposes. all three have a card that id's them as having been tested by official gov. educ. learning problems test centers. this also, unfortunately, is listed in the army computers so limits some of their jobs possibilities. this same card gives them rights in uni. for extra time in testing or oral testing.

there are many people who were never diagnosed properly but who managed to just work extra hard and make it. but not all children have the emotional ability to do so. some kids just give up. some become mopers. some become frustrated and violent. some just 'hang out and want to do nothing all day.

on the other hand, it could be social problems... bullies or whatever.

up to u to figure it all out.

there is someone on the forum who is involved in spec. education in thailand as we discussed this once, try searching th forum as he listed the centers for testing etc... cant remember his name.... or what forum, maybe health forum? somehthing with autism or learning disabilities in the word search..

bina

israel

[crocodile]

there is more then dyslexia; three out of three of my kids are learning impaired in one way or an other: however, the oldest, who hated school, got away for most of the school w/o doing too much work; we switched her to an artist/humanties semi private school in 8th grade after discovering that... best thing we ever did.

the youngest was moved by gov. educ. committee to a spec. ed class in regular school, best thing that ever happened for her. the middle boy sort of fell bwteen a lot of chairs... no violence or vandalism but avoiding classes, moping around, etc. he has been moved to a sort of mini school within his high school that is set up to help kids (mostly boys since more boys than girls ahve certain types of learning disabilities and /or behavior issues that go along with that) that are on the verge of failing but are in need and are willing to get that 'extra help and push'... nothing goes smooth: he is failing geography at the moment (its his last year of school and unfortunately this is also when many boys here start to act up, its pre army nerves etc) but he knows that this is his last chance to do his work until he will be 21 and then he will have to retest again in order to go to uni. so its his choice now, not ours. the youngest is getting extra help by professional tutor for children with cognitive disorders in addition to us helping her and spec. ed.

she is super intelligent but gives up very easily, and prefers her friends to school work even in class.

each child has his own 'thing' (its genetics from my ex who was only recently diagnosed as having learning disabilties, back then, israel didnt believe in this either....): the oldest doesnt read or write but does everything orally and in presentations and is heavily in to photography, art and design, and used a tape recorder when in class (she is now in army as a soldier teacher's helper for problematic children in needy areas); my son just needed extra time and quiet for doing work and some extra help in spatial things, and organizational skills, sequences, and some decent teaching methods. the youngest has the most problems including dyslexia, organizational /spatial problems, telling time/time management (she's 14!), problem solving of any sort, linear thinking, attention deficit , short term memory is very short. on the other hand, she can choreograph complex dances and remember them (her body remembers the patterns), is emotionally super sensitive to others', is empathetic (overly so), and computer doesnt help her dyslexia any. she is tested orally or with what is called: over writing i.e. she speaks to someone who transcribes her answers. this is for testing purposes. all three have a card that id's them as having been tested by official gov. educ. learning problems test centers. this also, unfortunately, is listed in the army computers so limits some of their jobs possibilities. this same card gives them rights in uni. for extra time in testing or oral testing.

there are many people who were never diagnosed properly but who managed to just work extra hard and make it. but not all children have the emotional ability to do so. some kids just give up. some become mopers. some become frustrated and violent. some just 'hang out and want to do nothing all day.

on the other hand, it could be social problems... bullies or whatever.

up to u to figure it all out.

there is someone on the forum who is involved in spec. education in thailand as we discussed this once, try searching th forum as he listed the centers for testing etc... cant remember his name.... or what forum, maybe health forum? somehthing with autism or learning disabilities in the word search..

bina

israel

Google up "Enigma Institute Bangkok"and you'll get the web pages for Enigma International Co. Ltd. They are based in Silom and work in the field of first diagnosing dyslexia and other learning difficulties, and then doing something about it. Their system is called Instrumental Enrichment and is based on the work of Professor Reuven Fuerstein of Israel. Or you can pm me.

Your son does not want to go to school. Fuerstein would probably call it lack of "task intrinsic motivation". Yes something can be done about it!

[Lourens]

I just returned from a trip home and found out all about the reasons for his behaviour. It turns out he didn't want to go to school anymore because he was forced to pay protection money to some older boys. My wife found this out after she went to the school to see if she could find out what was happening. According to the teachers, they knew about this going on but could never prove it as no one wanted to come forward to name the bad boys. Their names are still not known and for all we know, it is still an ongoing thing. I never thought that this kind of gangsterism is going on in Thai schools and if it is happening in a school in Buriram, it must be happening in other schools as well. This is a very worrying development and a situation that should be addressed in the strongest terms.

Our boy will not go back to that school. We found an alternative where he will repeat the last year. He seems very happy about the prospect of going to school again and for that we are very thankful.

Thanks also for all your comments and suggestions. It is much appreciated and good to know that someone cares.

[nonthaburial]

Lourens, glad to hear that this episode at least is closed. However, all parties should realise that these painful times could have been avoided if the Son had opened up to his parents from day 1. I realise this is hard for a kid to do ,but it would haved lessened the pain and hurt he was going through much quicker.

Anyhow good luck to him

[simcity]

The school is totally irresponsible; a general meeting with the students and an anonyme vote system could be put in place. to fish out the suspect

It is great, your son talk to you !

[roygsd]

We have a boy, 13 years old, who do not want to go to school. We take him to school every day but we had a call from his teacher saying that he just wanders around outside and never goes to class. (This says a lot about the school system doesn’t it?) When we confronted him with this, he replied that he does not want to go to school anymore. Taking him to another school won’t solve the problem and I even thought we might enrol him in a private school. But nothing prevents him from simply leaving and not going to classes.

What can we do? I know of no school hostels where we can put him and he is still too young for the military. It was suggested that he should become a novice monk so that the temple can look after him. All this makes me feel terrible because it looks like we can not take care of him anymore. We tried explaining to him that an education is very important but his response is simply that he doesn’t like school. How do we motivate him? Do I pay him to go to school and do well to learn? He gets all the material things he needs (not wants). He also gets a lot of attention and affection from us and both his mother and I are deeply concerned about his well being. He is a clever boy if he puts his mind to it but I get the feeling that he thinks he is dumb. I tried teaching him English on more than one occasion but he just don’t want to learn.

Any ideas of what we can do to help this kid to get the education he deserves will be greatly appreciated.

Be a dad instead of an ATM,

take away his privilages, do whatevety has to be done, he is taking liberties because you allow it and things will only get worse.

I have 4 grown up kids and I love them to death but they were put in their place whenever it became necessary, its your job go do it.