Ckicken Little Sez...

[ray23]

Keys I would use them as expensive paper wieghts.

China buying America why not the Japanese worked real hard at it in thier heyday

"If JPMorgan can buy BearStearns at 2$ a share I say give it a shot!" Anyone notice what happened to JP Morgan shares on deal?

Sure things are bad really seem like it is goign to get worse. But that creates buying opportunities. That is what will bring us out of this. Just as it has in all the other recessions. Think about it if you know what your doing let the liquidity go back into the system wait for the free money which is very close at the moment, then go to the fire sales.

This junk we see today will be come valuable again always does. Those that know the game and have money will win.

In the mean time little guys like me just have to ride it. The way these articles go you would think that America has never been in a recession a I recal there have been seven since WWII.

Never forget money was made even during the great depression and yes the world recovered from it.

I'm not saying this is goign to be fun, far from from it, but it is not the end of the world either.

[siamamerican]

What's up, not enough bad news in the world that we have to start making more up?

The US and its ecconomy has a long history of reinventing itself. I see no reason to believe it will not continue to do so.

I have to disagree with you ! It is hard to deny that the US economy seems to be unravelling.

Are there any more Bear Stearns type situations to come ? I would bet on it !

The S&L crisis of the late 80s saw over 1000 savings and loan institutions fail compared to, I think, three banks go belly-up during this crisis. The US economy rebounded quite well during 90s. US financial dominance will end, but little chance it will happen soon.

We probably will see numerous other banks that lent or invested in risky loans fail and the stock market probably hasn't seen a bottom. Doom sayers usually aren't the ones that make money in these times. They do get more publicity while financial savvy investors look for opportunities to profit from the fear.

The US economy survived stagflation and high unemployment in the 70s and huge trade and budget deficits in the 80s. My money is on it rebounding from this crisis.

[calibanjr.]

any brits or yanks out there that know anyone that HAS POSTED THERE KEYS AND WALKED AWAY, WHAT UTTER BULL KEY.

My last "real job" was at Wells Fargo in, of all things, risk management. I still have friends (shockingly) there with whom I discuss finance, among other things. "Jingle mail" the actual mailing in of keys has ALWAYS been a reality, just not a common occurrence. The term is used metaphorically at Wells, just meaning that the "owner" formally releases possession of the property, the keys not really being necessary. There are spikes during real estate slow-downs, of course. The current loss rates (default rates, in my old dept.) are showing exponential curves right now, and thus "jingle mail" is not only a reality, but an expanding phenomenon. Someone (idiot, IMO), say, making combined 200k or whatever, who took out an interest-only loan (which should be illegal, IMO) on a 700k condo/home, with variable rate, getting reset, who needs 50% of his and his wife's income, ANY financial difficulty in paying, combined with no equity in a property that is now worth 450k (maybe), now has incurred debt much greater than his yearly combined income, usually combined with other (e.g., SUV, Harley, etc.) interesting lifestyle enhancements. He will now retract necessarily any discretionary spending at all. This contraction, combined with tighter credit all around cascades throughout the entire economic system, and unfortunately, around the world to some degree. Apologies as an American for not having the ability to stop the Republican, "deregulate everything" and "invade now, send the bill to Joe Q. Public of the future" policies.

Not sure you grasp the degree of "air" in the real estate values over the recent past and the effect of the pop. It is happening.

My prognosticastion is serious economic slow down. Recession of 2-4 years, severity something of what I remember the 70's being like (I'm 41, so I was young), probably worse. Recovery slow, but a recovery nonetheless.

Edited March 19, 2008 by calibanjr.

[midas]

Keys I would use them as expensive paper wieghts.

China buying America why not the Japanese worked real hard at it in thier heyday

"If JPMorgan can buy BearStearns at 2$ a share I say give it a shot!" Anyone notice what happened to JP Morgan shares on deal?

Sure things are bad really seem like it is goign to get worse. But that creates buying opportunities. That is what will bring us out of this. Just as it has in all the other recessions. Think about it if you know what your doing let the liquidity go back into the system wait for the free money which is very close at the moment, then go to the fire sales.

This junk we see today will be come valuable again always does. Those that know the game and have money will win.

In the mean time little guys like me just have to ride it. The way these articles go you would think that America has never been in a recession a I recal there have been seven since WWII.

Never forget money was made even during the great depression and yes the world recovered from it.

I'm not saying this is goign to be fun, far from from it, but it is not the end of the world either.

But ray23 even during the great Depression surely there was never so much indebtedness in the system ?

now we have a country that was once the leader which is itself up to its neck in debt, with a very weak

currency and where even the average citizen has zero personal savings. maybe it's not the end of the world

but I don't think things are looking too good for the USA

[lannarebirth]

.

Lannarebirth, you're a Volitility Man, you must have paid a hefty premium for those puts. How bout selling some calls to cover some of the cost? If I were still on the floor, I'd be selling Volatility left, right and center. Just something to consider (I have no factual basis for my advice, tis just how I would have done the trade).

You're not wrong teej, I did pay a premium for the puts (but honestly, I've never made a dime on "cheap" puts). A 6% index move since purchase makes that easier to swallow though. It is my belief the Gold sector has put in a top of many months or perhaps years duration. I'm playing with the house money now so will just play it out a while.

[jaideeguy]

OK, IF there is a real depression, the consumers stop [or slow down] spending and the producing nations [China] suffer the most?? If that is the case, then China and investors in China will suffer most??

True??

Then, what countries will prosper??

[AFKAFSinLOS]

I have a fail safe solution.

China should buy America.

Hadn't you heard? They've already started? Not long since they took their % of a reknowned bank on the cheap.

Think they're also making clever moves by taking liquid OUT of their own FI markets, while others are trying to put IN to their own markets. eg PBoC just drained another CNY 80bio of liquidity via the 28 day repo market. PBoC also made a 50 bp hike in the reserve ratio for CNY deposits effective next week. Any money they take out of their own markets is less sloshing around in the system overall. Kind of cute really.

I wonder if they're also waiting for the worst possible moment to allow their own currency to appreciate, as it should.

All a really good opportunity for the Chinese to seize more power from the US. Let's face it they probably have years of annoyance built up inside them, with the US keep telling them what to do on human rights, economy, currency etc.

Edited March 19, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[gregybn]

Maestro... re #29

Original Headline was...

International experts foresee collapse of U.S. economy

Posted 04 Mar, 2008

Footer info reads...

This and earlier columns can be seen at hielema.ca.

Comments to [email protected].

Copyright © 2008 Belleville Intelligencer

[misterman21]

I was thinking more along the lines that a failing economy would create pressure on the armed services and their role both finacialy and politically, which may bring about a premature withdrawl in Iraq creating massive problems in the future.

I believe that Iraq is a mess, but would hope that whatever the cost the US would stay until the situation is stabilised whenever that may be.

You couldnt be more wrong - if you read history you would know that failing economies are a prelude to massive wars.

Military Industrial Complex = USA

[bartender100]

any brits or yanks out there that know anyone that HAS POSTED THERE KEYS AND WALKED AWAY, WHAT UTTER BULL KEY.

This has contributed to personnel debt in Britain reaching £1.3 trillion (an average of £30,000 for every adult in the UK). More than eight million Britons are in serious debt—a quarter of whom are struggling to make their repayments.

According to Inside Housing, “almost one in ten of England’s most marginal homeowners are spending more than three quarters of their income on mortgages. More than 19,000 householders with a disposable income of £1,000 are using all of it to pay off their mortgage. Nearly 400,000 people spend 75 percent of their salary”. In 2007, 24,000 householders were classified as “homeless at home” because of their appalling living conditions—making a total of 143,000 households over the last four years.

ONE house is repossessed every 12 minutes in the UK, as mortgage holders give up on becoming homeowners.

Official figures predict that in 2008, 124 homes will be taken back a day — a total of 45,000.

Citizens Advice said a survey of three-quarters of its bureaus in England and Wales showed they had dealt with 215,000 new debt problems during the first two months of 2008.

More than 9,300 were seeking help with mortgages – 35 per cent up compared with the same period in 2007.

The overall total is 130,000 – up from 98,000 in 2004 and 119,500 in 2006, said the Council of Mortgage Lenders.

The grim figures raised the spectre of the early 1990s when as many as half a million people were at least three months in arrears and 75,000 had their homes repossessed.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/38517/...bt-crisis-bites Today Paper

[lannarebirth]

Bought $XAU puts today. We'll see.

Out! 21 pts OTM to 7 pts ITM in 2 days. Pretty good. Funnily enough the GOLD:XAU ratio not that far from giving a buy signal (not for me) though it sure doesn't feel that way.

[Robski]

You couldnt be more wrong

Oh I think probably could if I really tried.

[gregybn]

The fact of the matter is that the US is bankrupt. David M. Walker, Comptroller General of the US and head of the Government Accountability Office, in his December 17, 2007, report to the US Congress on the financial statements of the US government noted that “the federal government did not maintain effective internal control over financial reporting (including safeguarding assets) and compliance with significant laws and regulations as of September 30, 2007.” In everyday language, the US government cannot pass an audit.

Moreover, the GAO report pointed out that the accrued liabilities of the federal government “totaled approximately $53 trillion as of September 30, 2007.” No funds have been set aside against this mind boggling liability.

Just so the reader understands, $53 trillion is $53,000 billion.

Frustrated by speaking to deaf ears, Walker recently resigned as head of the Government Accountability Office.

The Collapse of American Power

Hmmm... Chicken Little sez...

There are a hel_l of a lot of DEAF EARS out in the wirld these daze... eh wot?

Are YOU listening yet?

Have YOU CoveredYourAss = CYA?

Got Gold (&Silver) - as opposed to ANY fiat currency?

[dinom]

I just returned from the US. It is truly in bad shape. I don't think it will come out of this slump for at least 2 years. It will rise out of the ashes of the Bush Administration and economic decay to still be a leader, but less than ever before.

People are doing some really strange things back there now. Worse days ahead, but when the storm clears opportunity waits. Jump on the tide and ride the upswing.

ilyushin I would love to share your optimism but how can you possibly say it will still be a leader when it rises

out of the ashes ? the average American has zero personal savings, the education system in the U.S. is totally

shot to pieces, the US is no longer the innovative country it used to be. And even if something big came along

to rescue it, this time what will stop that innovation from being undertaken in China or India ?

Lets face it the only thing that has kept the economy going all this time is the consumer spending money

shopping ! You can hardly expect that to last forever ! What else has America got - you tell me ?

Clearly, most of people are over estimating China as the future economic power. Number of people yes but not enough suitable agriculture land to feed their own, nor enough natural resources as in oil or other important stuff to be self reliant. It is an import relying country in any sense, even as in bying, mostly copying technology. The real winner in years to come will be Russia and countries surrounding. They've got it all big time and the rest of the world will buy from them. Anybody want to take that bet?

[gregybn]

Commodities down = $$$ up ~ you wish???

So, why did the commodities begin to sell off right at the time the Fed's sale of Bear Stearns to JP Morgan Chase was announced? And why did the dollar bounce at that very moment?

Well, the commodities sold off because the dollar bounced. Commodities are still mainly traded in dollar terms around the world.

...the dollar bounced for the sole reason that the Fed and the rest of the world finally performed what is known as a currency intervention. The other central banks agreed to buy dollars. Nothing new, here.

The end result of all of the above is that nothing has really changed - except for the thus-far undisclosed international dollar-support action. Other than that, everything is still the same.

So, what was the real point of these actions? If the only change that has any kind of teeth was the coordinated dollar-support action, why did the world's central banks not disclose that?

Answer: Because everybody knows that such action would prop up the dollar and probably result in a correction in the commodities markets. Under those conditions, the battered US Fed would not be able to stand there and accept the adulation of the cheering masses as the "hero who saved the markets."

It's a con-man's trick, through and through.

The dollar's short-term reversal is being pointed to as proof that the Fed's actions "saved the day" while in truth it was the otherwise typical, very un-dramatic, and common-sense currency intervention that did the job. At the same time, one of the Fed's owner banks was able to buy up a competitor at fire-sale prices while benefiting from Fed-injected taxpayer money (i.e., the $30 billion "loaned" to Bear Stern's balance sheet).

The self-defecating, bootlicking, sycophantic financial press hails this as the next best thing to Jesus' second coming, of course. More sober observers can only shake their head at the gullibility of consumers of what goes under the name of "financial news."

Just look past the smoke, break some of the mirrors, and reality looks exactly the way it did before Bernie staged this rehabilitation of the Fed's image as an institution that can "save" the markets.

Of course, none of this even addresses the issue of what ultimate effect yet another rescue action really has on the economy. It can only make things worse in the long run - and that's what the Fed's real raison d'etre seems to be:

Destroy the world's largest, most powerful economy so the US can be "integrated" with other nations in the western hemisphere - but do it slowly, so nobody can point the finger at one particular Fed action and go lynch the bastards. In other words: plausible deniability. That way, at least, that pesky thing called a "Constitution" that some hopelessly backwards Americans still believe in no longer needs to be paid lip service to.

At least, that appears to be the plan.

Got gold?

Chicken Little sez... Dead cat$ are still dead cat$ - no matter how much/high they bounce...?

[siamamerican]

The fact of the matter is that the US is bankrupt. David M. Walker, Comptroller General of the US and head of the Government Accountability Office, in his December 17, 2007, report to the US Congress on the financial statements of the US government noted that “the federal government did not maintain effective internal control over financial reporting (including safeguarding assets) and compliance with significant laws and regulations as of September 30, 2007.” In everyday language, the US government cannot pass an audit.

Moreover, the GAO report pointed out that the accrued liabilities of the federal government “totaled approximately $53 trillion as of September 30, 2007.” No funds have been set aside against this mind boggling liability.

Just so the reader understands, $53 trillion is $53,000 billion.

Frustrated by speaking to deaf ears, Walker recently resigned as head of the Government Accountability Office.

The Collapse of American Power

Hmmm... Chicken Little sez...

There are a hel_l of a lot of DEAF EARS out in the wirld these daze... eh wot?

Are YOU listening yet?

Have YOU CoveredYourAss = CYA?

Got Gold (&Silver) - as opposed to ANY fiat currency?

You both are quite the dramatic duo. 53 trillion, what are we poor Americans going to do? How about a reference point or does that make it less dramatic.

Try this - debt compared to a country’s GDP might be a good start. I know it is comparing apples to apples, but what the heck. Japan, Germany, France, Canada and Italy to name a few countries, have much more debt compared to GDP.

I don't want to rain on your parade, so for your analysis, you can compare the US to Equatorial Guinea.

[midas]

The fact of the matter is that the US is bankrupt. David M. Walker, Comptroller General of the US and head of the Government Accountability Office, in his December 17, 2007, report to the US Congress on the financial statements of the US government noted that “the federal government did not maintain effective internal control over financial reporting (including safeguarding assets) and compliance with significant laws and regulations as of September 30, 2007.” In everyday language, the US government cannot pass an audit.

Moreover, the GAO report pointed out that the accrued liabilities of the federal government “totaled approximately $53 trillion as of September 30, 2007.” No funds have been set aside against this mind boggling liability.

Just so the reader understands, $53 trillion is $53,000 billion.

Frustrated by speaking to deaf ears, Walker recently resigned as head of the Government Accountability Office.

The Collapse of American Power

Hmmm... Chicken Little sez...

There are a hel_l of a lot of DEAF EARS out in the wirld these daze... eh wot?

Are YOU listening yet?

Have YOU CoveredYourAss = CYA?

Got Gold (&Silver) - as opposed to ANY fiat currency?

You both are quite the dramatic duo. 53 trillion, what are we poor Americans going to do? How about a reference point or does that make it less dramatic.

Try this - debt compared to a country’s GDP might be a good start. I know it is comparing apples to apples, but what the heck. Japan, Germany, France, Canada and Italy to name a few countries, have much more debt compared to GDP.

I don't want to rain on your parade, so for your analysis, you can compare the US to Equatorial Guinea.

Yes but what has the USA got to offer the world these days ? What is going to get the USA

out of debt ?

[siamamerican]

The fact of the matter is that the US is bankrupt. David M. Walker, Comptroller General of the US and head of the Government Accountability Office, in his December 17, 2007, report to the US Congress on the financial statements of the US government noted that “the federal government did not maintain effective internal control over financial reporting (including safeguarding assets) and compliance with significant laws and regulations as of September 30, 2007.” In everyday language, the US government cannot pass an audit.

Moreover, the GAO report pointed out that the accrued liabilities of the federal government “totaled approximately $53 trillion as of September 30, 2007.” No funds have been set aside against this mind boggling liability.

Just so the reader understands, $53 trillion is $53,000 billion.

Frustrated by speaking to deaf ears, Walker recently resigned as head of the Government Accountability Office.

The Collapse of American Power

Hmmm... Chicken Little sez...

There are a hel_l of a lot of DEAF EARS out in the wirld these daze... eh wot?

Are YOU listening yet?

Have YOU CoveredYourAss = CYA?

Got Gold (&Silver) - as opposed to ANY fiat currency?

You both are quite the dramatic duo. 53 trillion, what are we poor Americans going to do? How about a reference point or does that make it less dramatic.

Try this - debt compared to a country’s GDP might be a good start. I know it is comparing apples to apples, but what the heck. Japan, Germany, France, Canada and Italy to name a few countries, have much more debt compared to GDP.

I don't want to rain on your parade, so for your analysis, you can compare the US to Equatorial Guinea.

Yes but what has the USA got to offer the world these days ? What is going to get the USA

out of debt ?

Not more or less than it did 10, 20, or 30 years ago. Since Japan, Germany, France, Canada, Italy have much more debt compared to the goods and services they produce, how are they going get out of debt. They won't, nor will the US and all will be fine. The US has carried more debt many times in the past compared to its GDP and the economy kept humming.

[shochu]

japan's debt is owned by the people of japan.

germany makes most of the advanced machinery/technology along with japan - they actually make things with value as opposed to providing services like finacial services which is a fancy way of saying - can we have your money politely.

france is a basketcase and will suffer. canada - well they do have an awful lot of commodities so they can just sell their back yards. really do not know enough about these two countries.

the US owes money to others and will never be able to pay - period. they don't make/produce anything of value except scams. and they have no intention of ever paying back. this economic crisis will be the outlet for many companies and organizations - be they gov't - to reneg on their obligations - such as pensions/healthcare. funny how this is the year that the big jump in these payments starts.

never in the history of the fed - have they ever convened and had a sunday session. it is now making news that this very session halted what would have been a derivatives implosion. what i understand is the big boys are stalling for time to unwind their positions so guys like you can holller back after the party is over.

[ilyushin]

I just returned from the US. It is truly in bad shape. I don't think it will come out of this slump for at least 2 years. It will rise out of the ashes of the Bush Administration and economic decay to still be a leader, but less than ever before.

People are doing some really strange things back there now. Worse days ahead, but when the storm clears opportunity waits. Jump on the tide and ride the upswing.

ilyushin I would love to share your optimism but how can you possibly say it will still be a leader when it rises

out of the ashes ? the average American has zero personal savings, the education system in the U.S. is totally

shot to pieces, the US is no longer the innovative country it used to be. And even if something big came along

to rescue it, this time what will stop that innovation from being undertaken in China or India ?

Lets face it the only thing that has kept the economy going all this time is the consumer spending money

shopping ! You can hardly expect that to last forever ! What else has America got - you tell me ?

midas - I agree with some of what you say, but the US is able to bounce back from hiccups in the economy. It will bottom out as I mentioned and then rise again, but not to new heights.

True most Americans are broke, credit is bad ( average credit card debt US$9,000/card), student loans are killing the higher education, bad loans, high medical bankruptcies and housing problems. The industry sector is limited to special areas like aviation, alternative fuels, medications, foods and limited consumer products. Although the US hosts one of the largest if not the largest untapped banks of natural resources. These factors and the ability for the US to change will bring it out of the ashes and back up, but with a bloody nose and not the world leader any longer. China and India are new to the game and will be in a state of ruins in a decade or so. Their markets are not yet mature and the political outlook is not so clear. When the US economic problem sinks in these markets will also be in dire straights.

The US will lose a majority of the middle class and larger gaps between rich and poor will develop, but the US will rise above these issues and be in the top 5 nations for a very long time.

The US needs an overhaul in education, work ethics, politics, foreign affairs and finance. Get ready for the ride.

The current Admin needs to be put out with the rubbish and then possibly the US will be able to shine once again.

I also feel that there is a strong chance of civil unrest in the US. A movement to break these old ruling parties (barriers) could pave the way to less social decay, better financial reposibilities and improve the much needed discipline of Americans.

Just shooting from the hip, but I think you understand. The Indiana Jones Rule - making it up as it comes along.

Edited March 24, 2008 by ilyushin

[siamamerican]

japan's debt is owned by the people of japan.

germany makes most of the advanced machinery/technology along with japan - they actually make things with value as opposed to providing services like finacial services which is a fancy way of saying - can we have your money politely.

france is a basketcase and will suffer. canada - well they do have an awful lot of commodities so they can just sell their back yards. really do not know enough about these two countries.

the US owes money to others and will never be able to pay - period. they don't make/produce anything of value except scams. and they have no intention of ever paying back. this economic crisis will be the outlet for many companies and organizations - be they gov't - to reneg on their obligations - such as pensions/healthcare. funny how this is the year that the big jump in these payments starts.

never in the history of the fed - have they ever convened and had a sunday session. it is now making news that this very session halted what would have been a derivatives implosion. what i understand is the big boys are stalling for time to unwind their positions so guys like you can holller back after the party is over.

The US has owed money in the past and will in the future. To who is of little consequence? A dollar owed to Swede is the same as a dollar owed to an American. You seem to know it all - that must be nice. What tells you that the US can't pay its obligations? Probably nothing of any substance. It sure feels good to bash America.

America's financial well being has improved every decade in the last 70 years and the run will probably continue this decade. Americans have owed more in the past relative to GDP and nothing bad happened.

Wow, the fed met on a Sunday!!! Who cares - LOL

[midas]

japan's debt is owned by the people of japan.

germany makes most of the advanced machinery/technology along with japan - they actually make things with value as opposed to providing services like finacial services which is a fancy way of saying - can we have your money politely.

france is a basketcase and will suffer. canada - well they do have an awful lot of commodities so they can just sell their back yards. really do not know enough about these two countries.

the US owes money to others and will never be able to pay - period. they don't make/produce anything of value except scams. and they have no intention of ever paying back. this economic crisis will be the outlet for many companies and organizations - be they gov't - to reneg on their obligations - such as pensions/healthcare. funny how this is the year that the big jump in these payments starts.

never in the history of the fed - have they ever convened and had a sunday session. it is now making news that this very session halted what would have been a derivatives implosion. what i understand is the big boys are stalling for time to unwind their positions so guys like you can holller back after the party is over.

The US has owed money in the past and will in the future. To who is of little consequence? A dollar owed to Swede is the same as a dollar owed to an American. You seem to know it all - that must be nice. What tells you that the US can't pay its obligations? Probably nothing of any substance. It sure feels good to bash America.

America's financial well being has improved every decade in the last 70 years and the run will probably continue this decade. Americans have owed more in the past relative to GDP and nothing bad happened.

Wow, the fed met on a Sunday!!! Who cares - LOL

Well you seem to know it all as well ! What tells you the US CAN pay its obligations?

[siamamerican]

japan's debt is owned by the people of japan.

germany makes most of the advanced machinery/technology along with japan - they actually make things with value as opposed to providing services like finacial services which is a fancy way of saying - can we have your money politely.

france is a basketcase and will suffer. canada - well they do have an awful lot of commodities so they can just sell their back yards. really do not know enough about these two countries.

the US owes money to others and will never be able to pay - period. they don't make/produce anything of value except scams. and they have no intention of ever paying back. this economic crisis will be the outlet for many companies and organizations - be they gov't - to reneg on their obligations - such as pensions/healthcare. funny how this is the year that the big jump in these payments starts.

never in the history of the fed - have they ever convened and had a sunday session. it is now making news that this very session halted what would have been a derivatives implosion. what i understand is the big boys are stalling for time to unwind their positions so guys like you can holller back after the party is over.

The US has owed money in the past and will in the future. To who is of little consequence? A dollar owed to Swede is the same as a dollar owed to an American. You seem to know it all - that must be nice. What tells you that the US can't pay its obligations? Probably nothing of any substance. It sure feels good to bash America.

America's financial well being has improved every decade in the last 70 years and the run will probably continue this decade. Americans have owed more in the past relative to GDP and nothing bad happened.

Wow, the fed met on a Sunday!!! Who cares - LOL

Well you seem to know it all as well ! What tells you the US CAN pay its obligations?

Simply put - history. Not as excitng as unfounded predictions.

[midas]

japan's debt is owned by the people of japan.

germany makes most of the advanced machinery/technology along with japan - they actually make things with value as opposed to providing services like finacial services which is a fancy way of saying - can we have your money politely.

france is a basketcase and will suffer. canada - well they do have an awful lot of commodities so they can just sell their back yards. really do not know enough about these two countries.

the US owes money to others and will never be able to pay - period. they don't make/produce anything of value except scams. and they have no intention of ever paying back. this economic crisis will be the outlet for many companies and organizations - be they gov't - to reneg on their obligations - such as pensions/healthcare. funny how this is the year that the big jump in these payments starts.

never in the history of the fed - have they ever convened and had a sunday session. it is now making news that this very session halted what would have been a derivatives implosion. what i understand is the big boys are stalling for time to unwind their positions so guys like you can holller back after the party is over.

The US has owed money in the past and will in the future. To who is of little consequence? A dollar owed to Swede is the same as a dollar owed to an American. You seem to know it all - that must be nice. What tells you that the US can't pay its obligations? Probably nothing of any substance. It sure feels good to bash America.

America's financial well being has improved every decade in the last 70 years and the run will probably continue this decade. Americans have owed more in the past relative to GDP and nothing bad happened.

Wow, the fed met on a Sunday!!! Who cares - LOL

Well you seem to know it all as well ! What tells you the US CAN pay its obligations?

Simply put - history. Not as excitng as unfounded predictions.

So what -are you saying history is incapable of producing unexpected outcomes

[siamamerican]

So what -are you saying history is incapable of producing unexpected outcomes

Wow, that was deeeeep. Peace and I'm off to meditate on dire and unexpected outcomes. On second thought, Ill head to work where I keep making more and more money. I'll keep investing my extra cash in markets around the world. Funny, I haven't met any doom and gloomers of late or for that matter ever that were succesful.

[midas]

So what -are you saying history is incapable of producing unexpected outcomes

Wow, that was deeeeep. Peace and I'm off to meditate on dire and unexpected outcomes. On second thought, Ill head to work where I keep making more and more money. I'll keep investing my extra cash in markets around the world. Funny, I haven't met any doom and gloomers of late or for that matter ever that were succesful.

Well I made enough in Australia to retire comfortably here in Thailand. You are funny character.

you seem to need constant reassurance about your position. if you're so confident

just go ahead and be a quiet achiever. it's obvious you don't need any other

points of view. jolly good luck to you

[siamamerican]

So what -are you saying history is incapable of producing unexpected outcomes

Wow, that was deeeeep. Peace and I'm off to meditate on dire and unexpected outcomes. On second thought, Ill head to work where I keep making more and more money. I'll keep investing my extra cash in markets around the world. Funny, I haven't met any doom and gloomers of late or for that matter ever that were succesful.

Well I made enough in Australia to retire comfortably here in Thailand. You are funny character.

you seem to need constant reassurance about your position. if you're so confident

just go ahead and be a quiet achiever. it's obvious you don't need any other

points of view. jolly good luck to you

Well, thank you. You are quite the charmer. Do you really find me funny? Be careful with your response - I'm fragile.

[gregybn]

The US has carried more debt many times in the past compared to its GDP and the economy kept humming.

BTW... U.S. debt is at 353 per cent of GDP, the highest since at least 1921.

Humming along... yeah right!

The tune is "Nearer My God to Thee"

Just like the band played as the Titanic was sinking?

[midas]

The US has carried more debt many times in the past compared to its GDP and the economy kept humming.

BTW... U.S. debt is at 353 per cent of GDP, the highest since at least 1921.

Humming along... yeah right!

The tune is "Nearer My God to Thee"

Just like the band played as the Titanic was sinking?

That is interesting ! And if the Iraq war ends up costing $ 2 trillion

by how much does the 353 per cent of GDP increase ?

[lannarebirth]

The fact of the matter is that the US is bankrupt. David M. Walker, Comptroller General of the US and head of the Government Accountability Office, in his December 17, 2007, report to the US Congress on the financial statements of the US government noted that "the federal government did not maintain effective internal control over financial reporting (including safeguarding assets) and compliance with significant laws and regulations as of September 30, 2007." In everyday language, the US government cannot pass an audit.

Moreover, the GAO report pointed out that the accrued liabilities of the federal government "totaled approximately $53 trillion as of September 30, 2007." No funds have been set aside against this mind boggling liability.

Just so the reader understands, $53 trillion is $53,000 billion.

Frustrated by speaking to deaf ears, Walker recently resigned as head of the Government Accountability Office.

The Collapse of American Power

Hmmm... Chicken Little sez...

There are a hel_l of a lot of DEAF EARS out in the wirld these daze... eh wot?

Are YOU listening yet?

Have YOU CoveredYourAss = CYA?

Got Gold (&Silver) - as opposed to ANY fiat currency?

You both are quite the dramatic duo. 53 trillion, what are we poor Americans going to do? How about a reference point or does that make it less dramatic.

Try this - debt compared to a country's GDP might be a good start. I know it is comparing apples to apples, but what the heck. Japan, Germany, France, Canada and Italy to name a few countries, have much more debt compared to GDP.

I don't want to rain on your parade, so for your analysis, you can compare the US to Equatorial Guinea.

Yes but what has the USA got to offer the world these days ? What is going to get the USA

out of debt ?

Well, for one thing, almost every alternative energy patent is owned by Americans and American corporations. That will be the next big mania IMO. I see oil under $25/bbl in the next 5 years, a new bull market starting and peace and prosperity breaking out everywhere. All related to cheap, clean, sustainable energy.

edit: Additionally, though I'm not much of a capatalist, capitalism works very well in the US with regard to clearing bad debt (private debt). Public debt is another matter and I'm not really sure how a resolution to that matter will unfold.

Edited March 24, 2008 by lannarebirth