Learning The Tones

[midas]

After considerable amount of effort I am about 90 percent of the way to having

learnt the 42 Thai consonants - the next step being the vowels.

I also find it's a bit difficult to decipher some Thai script on advertising

billboards and in shop windows when they use fancy writing. I sometimes

stop and stare at something for ages trying to work out what the consonant

is supposed to be ? Did anyone else have this problem when they were learning?

But then comes when I think will be the biggest challenge which is the tones.

I haven't been able to obtain any decent book which explains clearly

how you can determine which tones to speak when you are reading

Thai script ? Would anyone have any recommendations?

[Artamus]

After considerable amount of effort I am about 90 percent of the way to having

learnt the 42 Thai consonants - the next step being the vowels.

I also find it's a bit difficult to decipher some Thai script on advertising

billboards and in shop windows when they use fancy writing. I sometimes

stop and stare at something for ages trying to work out what the consonant

is supposed to be ? Did anyone else have this problem when they were learning?

But then comes when I think will be the biggest challenge which is the tones.

I haven't been able to obtain any decent book which explains clearly

how you can determine which tones to speak when you are reading

Thai script ? Would anyone have any recommendations?

I have the same problem with Thai script. Anything other than well-written characters and I am floundering. Guess it just takes lots of reading practice. There have been several threads on tones recently and a couple of files posted with the characters and tones rules well laid out.

[traveller5000]

There is a small 20 (aprox) page booklet published by the Australian National Uni that explains the tone rules well, concise & fully covering the topic. They also sell a CD with the same info.

Not sure how you can get your hands on a copy though.

[midas]

There is a small 20 (aprox) page booklet published by the Australian National Uni that explains the tone rules well, concise & fully covering the topic. They also sell a CD with the same info.

Not sure how you can get your hands on a copy though.

Thanks a lot - i sent them an email just now to ask................

I happen to be an Aussie though i dont know if that will help

[CuriousGeorge77]

is this it?

http://www.anu.edu.au/ThaiOnline/NTSC/Publ...ublications.htm

[5tash]

hi, i learned to read thai with the benjamin poomsan becker books. the first book 'thai for beginners' explains all the tone rules and also comes with a cd, i highly recommend it. i had the same problem after learning to read thai in normal font, when i arrived in thailand i couldn't read any the of the advertising, it just takes time to learn the different style the letters are written in. good luck with learning the tones.

5thash.

[kriswillems]

You need a Thai person to help you to pronounce the tones correctly (middle, low, falling, high, rising).

Once you're able to pronounce the 5 tones correctly you can learn to apply the correct tone by yourself.

I made a small table to explain the tone rules.

The tone of a syllable depends on:

1. The class of the first consonant of the syllable. There are 3 classes of consonants (low mid high). You'll find a list of the consonants of each class in the table attached (I would only remember high and mid class consonants, all the others are low).

2. The vowel length (short vowels are shown below the attached table, the others are long)

3. The final consonant or vowel of a syllable. Here we've 2 possibilities:

- Dead syllables: The final consonant has a "p", "t" or "k" sound (blue red and green consonants in the attached table) or the syllable ends on a short vowel (see below table)

- Life syllables: not dead (ends on consonant with other sound or long vowel)

4. The tone mark

Now you know this you can just look up the tone in the table.

The table is pretty complete and small (less than half page) and it's useful the have a printed copy beside you when practicing the tones.

Edited March 7, 2008 by kriswillems

[traveller5000]

is this it?

http://www.anu.edu.au/ThaiOnline/NTSC/Publ...ublications.htm

yes, the item I was referring to in that list was

Learning Thai Script Booklet

selling for a measly $5.50 AU dollars.

the audio recordings demonstrating the alphabet and tones on the CD are nice and clear, but the software itself is nothing special IMO

Edited March 7, 2008 by traveller5000

[kriswillems]

Sorry, forgot the attachment. Here it is.

tone3.pdf

[Lithobid]

Already Posted these, but here they are again,

One is a chart of my own,

The other is a chart Chriswilliams made, and I've added examples in thai script to it. I did this, because I'm learning to read, and examples of words are easyier than attaching the meaning of rising falling, low and high.

Hope it helps

Lithobid.

tones2.pdf

Kriswilliamstonesedit.pdf

[midas]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH EVERYONE ! You have given me more than

enough to be getting on with So here i go .........deep breath !!!!

[kriswillems]

Lithobid,

your tone chart is rather confusing.

- the first column in the first table is marked by a -

but it should say: live syllable, without tone mark

- the second table says: syllable ending on p t k sound

but it should say: syllable without tone mark ending on p t k or short vowel

PS. the last version of my tone chart is better (more complete) than the previous version. Please print in color.

Edited March 7, 2008 by kriswillems

[waveydavey]

The Benjawan Poomsan Becker Thai - English, English - Thai dictionary has a very useful section showing the different typefaces used in advertising, newspapers etc. I've found it a great help.

[mr_hippo]

Posted in error

Edited March 7, 2008 by mr_hippo

[midas]

I have one other question relating to my question about reading " fancy "

Thai lettering on billboards...............

At the other end of the spectrum is the absolute minature Thai writing on some

products. For example i had a carton of yoghurt where even with glasses

I was unable to easily read the reading because it was too small

We know that a ด looks very similar to a ค and ข looks

similar to ฃ when the characters are small, so how do older people with reduced

vision see this small differences ?

[aanon]

I have one other question relating to my question about reading " fancy "

Thai lettering on billboards...............

At the other end of the spectrum is the absolute minature Thai writing on some

products. For example i had a carton of yoghurt where even with glasses

I was unable to easily read the reading because it was too small

We know that a ด looks very similar to a ค and ข looks

similar to ฃ when the characters are small, so how do older people with reduced

vision see this small differences ?

well, sometimes there are slight differences in shape so that, even though you can't see the little circles, you can still distinguish between ค and ด, for example.

in the vast majority of cases, however, Thais also rely on their brain's ability to identify likely words in the context - just like English speakers are able to read sentences when only the top 50% of letters are visible, or when something like this happens:

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae.

all the best.

Edited March 8, 2008 by aanon

[everydaysthesame]

I learnt the tone rules using this excellent website ; http://www.learningthai.com/ click on learn the tones...

Has online exams etc. very useful.

To help me remember consonant class and the effect of the tone marks I found it useful to create my own mneumonics (!?!?) .

Good luck - it's easier than you think.

[midas]

I learnt the tone rules using this excellent website ; http://www.learningthai.com/ click on learn the tones...

Has online exams etc. very useful.

To help me remember consonant class and the effect of the tone marks I found it useful to create my own mneumonics (!?!?) .

Good luck - it's easier than you think.

Thanks very much

[tgeezer]

I have one other question relating to my question about reading " fancy "

Thai lettering on billboards...............

At the other end of the spectrum is the absolute minature Thai writing on some

products. For example i had a carton of yoghurt where even with glasses

I was unable to easily read the reading because it was too small

We know that a ด looks very similar to a ค and ข looks

similar to ฃ when the characters are small, so how do older people with reduced

vision see this small differences ?

well, sometimes there are slight differences in shape so that, even though you can't see the little circles, you can still distinguish between ค and ด, for example.

in the vast majority of cases, however, Thais also rely on their brain's ability to identify likely words in the context - just like English speakers are able to read sentences when only the top 50% of letters are visible, or when something like this happens:

Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae.

all the best.

Gosh, thanks for that I have never seen it before, strange how the brain works. I wonder what the Thai equivelent is. เอ๊อ and เอืย are the only two I have off where it doesn't matter if I cant decypher what is written above the อ and strangely The Dictionary leaves อ ย out in the ordering of vowels!

Edited March 9, 2008 by tgeezer

[hahe]

hi

[hahe]

hi

I want to live thailand.how can I learn thai language.

thank you

[Lithobid]

Lithobid,

your tone chart is rather confusing.

- the first column in the first table is marked by a -

but it should say: live syllable, without tone mark

- the second table says: syllable ending on p t k sound

but it should say: syllable without tone mark ending on p t k or short vowel

PS. the last version of my tone chart is better (more complete) than the previous version. Please print in color.

Thanks for the Info Kris, here's the edited version, I always "assumed" that information, but looking at it from your perspective, yes it was confusing, thanks for the clarity!

Lithobid

tone2.pdf

[kriswillems]

Lithobid,

your tone chart is rather confusing.

- the first column in the first table is marked by a -

but it should say: live syllable, without tone mark

- the second table says: syllable ending on p t k sound

but it should say: syllable without tone mark ending on p t k or short vowel

PS. the last version of my tone chart is better (more complete) than the previous version. Please print in color.

Thanks for the Info Kris, here's the edited version, I always "assumed" that information, but looking at it from your perspective, yes it was confusing, thanks for the clarity!

Lithobid

Lithoid

The header of the second table is still a bit confusing.

You wrote:

Without tone mark (short vowel) ending with -k, -t, -p/b sounds

But in this table we talk about:

Dead Syllables without tone mark

OR

Syllables ending on -k, -t, -p/b or a short vowel

This definition also includes dead syllables that end on a -p,-t,-k sound and that have a long vowel.

You header seems to exclude those syllables (although there are 2 columns in your table, one for short vowels and one for long vowels)

Edited March 14, 2008 by kriswillems