This is something that has been playing on my mind for a while, and it's not my intention to be provocative.

I've had the occasional "off" look or disapproving reaction from Western women when they see me (a Western man) with my Thai wife. We're the same age, the same class (in fact, her family probably have more wealth than mine, relative to cost of living in our respective countries (not that that should matter)). God knows what it's like for genuine in-love couples with an age differential.

Anyway, I'm wondering whether those same looks or reactions are given to Western men walking with Thai men. With or without the age differential. If there is an assumption of exploitation in my case, is the same assumed of Western homosexual men?

Like I said, I don't want anyone to get annoyed, I'm just looking for Western women's opinions, as I don't know any Western women in Thailand to ask (something I regret, I've always enjoyed their platonic company at home, but that's another post).

Thanks

OK, I'll go first. I think it is a fair question. I think it is complicated because there are many multiple variables at once, and most "newbies" will be unfamiliar with slight nuances that differentiate relationships apart from a very prevalent and ubiquitous pattern of financially motivated patterns, which are also a reality. As for myself, I don't give anyone looks, because regardless of the situation, if they are two consenting adults it is not place to comment socially. I think the issue is that there are a lot of extreme differentials, such as age and obvious status which make many people gawk.

I try to save my analysis and commentary for research, and discussions on issues of development or social change from the ground up, and the right to discuss it as it is, not how others think it should be represented. And yes, the exploitative components and negative externalities of the paid dating and sex market involve both gay and straight, predominantly, men.

But, it doesn't mean that every single example of Thai/farang male relationships are exploitative or paid, or that every every single relationship based on financial transactions is exploitative. I think most longterm people know this, but unfortunately there are a lot of people who only know about the obvious aspects and then think that one-size-fits-all for every Thai-farang relationship that they see.

Giving "the look"? Naaaaa. I think Thai-Western partnerships are constructed in a way that none of the onlooker nationals gets jealous. (that's a generalization of course) Western men of MOST mixed couples I see in the streets are not my type (and age group). (And Thai men tell me this is true of their feelings regarding the Farang wives.)

Also, it could be you perceive something that is not there.

Gay couples are often very attractive people. So while not giving them "the look" I might be found guilty of staring...

For your info: when I walked with my foreign then-husband in my home country, people - especially men - would spit at me or call me a whore.

Also, it could be you perceive something that is not there.

Gay couples are often very attractive people. So while not giving them "the look" I might be found guilty of staring...

Yup, that may be the reason.

I also have found that many of the gay venues in Bangkok (mostly Silom soi 2, not really soi 4) are not very friendly to women. In NYC, I used to frequent drag shows and lived in the West Village and always felt welcomed, but for some reason I think that I get the look in Bangkok sometimes... But that could be my imagination too.

My Thai husband and I have gotten looked at by foreign men, regularly. I generally don't assume its hostile unless the intent is obvious. Not sure if your "look" is paranoia on your part, assumptions on your part (as to what the looking actually means) or an honest hostile attitude.

I look at other couples, I am a people watcher. I mean no hostile intent, but enjoy watching people interact. Spent my lunch hour at MBK watching the crowds stroll by. Was I gawking? probably Was there hostility in my look aimed at anyone? Most certainly not. But someone with preconceived notions about my attitudes might assume hostility based on the mere fact of my looking.

So, do I gawk at gay couples? yup, and straight ones and mixed race ones, at ones where the girl has on a particularly cute outfit or is pretty or where the guy is cute, or wears funny clothes --same goes for gay couples too.

What do other people think? I have no idea and make no assumptions based on the mere fact of their looking.

After reading this thread twice, I am puzzled. With respect for the opening post, it almost seems like a question for straight people to ask straight Western women in the Gay in Thailand Forum, but lets leave it here. I fail to see why a straight couple would care to ask the question. Anyway, since I'm not a straight Western woman, I won't answer.

Well I sure hope my looks dont come off as hostile! Most of the looks I give people (in general) are just out of curiosity or it could be me thinking "oh they look cute together" as SBK mentioned. Of course...sometime I think the exact opposite and I think "How in the world could they be together...?!?!" Of course, I try not to make stereotypes as I obviously don't know the couple. Some couples just look...so different from each other. And I really am trying not to be offensive here..but coming from a young western woman...seeing old guys (and by old I generally mean 50 or older) with gorgeous young Thai women...is sometimes strange for me as its not something I might normally see in the US. Mind you, I usually only think that when im in areas where theres a lot of night clubs...so sometimes my mind tends to automatically assume "oh...she must be a bar girl and he must be paying her..."

I have some good falang guy friends who live in Thailand and are married to Thai women, so I just want to say that I in no way think that all foreign men come here for sex, I am simply pointing out my observations and how I react to them. And hey, Im supposed to be honest, right? ...so I wont lie...thats sometimes what comes to my mind (and like I said, usually I think this when I'm in areas where theres night clubs, strip clubs, etc, so you can understand my point I hope...) And I really dont give them "hostile looks." And even if I did, I dont think they would really notice, as they would have a beautiful thai woman on their arm!

Besides that though, I just think mixed race couples in general are interesting to look at. Today I saw a korean girl who was a girlfriend to an african american guy. I thought they looked really cute together. I dont know...I guess to be honest...at least outside of Thailand, its seems that mixed race couples are not so common, so thats why they are so interesting. As for gay couples, I probably do give them kind of an odd look without realizing it...but likes I've said, its in no way hostile. Just curiosity. Its just so normal for me to see straight white couples who are generally the same age, that its interesting for me to see different kinds of couples who come from different backgrounds. I know I have gotten a lot of stares...and I havent really portrayed it as hostile...they seem more like the "Whoa! A white woman and a Thai man? Does that actually HAPPEN here??" Actually, more often I get the whole "You live/travel here by yourself? are you insane?" But thats a whole different story....

Thanks for your replies.

To be fair, the negative attitudes I've perceived were from women that seemed to be tourists rather than residents, and I would expect residents to be a bit better clued up to the fact that not all Western men here are here "for the sex".

What I suppose I was interested in knowing was that for those women, would they be more likely to think that it is "okay", or more okay, for homosexual men to be here for the sex too, and if not, then would they express that by a "look"?

Thinking about it, I assume there might be dynamics to the homosexual sex scene that apply less to the hetero one, which make it less exploitative, and therefore more okay?

For your info: when I walked with my foreign then-husband in my home country, people - especially men - would spit at me or call me a whore.

Wow, where's your home country?

For your info: when I walked with my foreign then-husband in my home country, people - especially men - would spit at me or call me a whore.

Wow, where's your home country?

Indeed - and what ethnicity are you and your former husband, if you don't mind divulging.

As for the OP, I think we all make certain assumptions about relationships here, whether we admit it or not, simply on the basis of probability.

I don't think my reaction to hetero/homosexual couples is much different. It's the age/attractiveness/outlook differences and apparent extent of language/culture barriers that I might very quickly and subconsciously "compute". A large imbalance in any one area might cancel out similarity of age and "class". It's just instinctive.

Something I do note with the homosexual couples is the sense that the Thai partner is not gay. Perhaps those in heterosexual partnerships are gay. Perhaps it makes it all easier.

What I suppose I was interested in knowing was that for those women, would they be more likely to think that it is "okay", or more okay, for homosexual men to be here for the sex too, and if not, then would they express that by a "look"?

Thinking about it, I assume there might be dynamics to the homosexual sex scene that apply less to the hetero one, which make it less exploitative, and therefore more okay?

I think I answered that in my post, and what I said was that exploitation and negative externalities of relationships based on financial transactions was the same, whether gay or straight.