Rice, Second Annual Crop

[ozzydom]

Ok, another question and this one is from a totally ignorant person who has seen rice grown everywhere a million times.

But what time of year does the rice planting start and stop ?

And what is the difference between growing the fragrant rice and any other variety ?

The land has a natural wet season water course at the rear of the property. This water course has a small pond of water in it still now. Locals said cleaning the course out with a excavator would/should supply enough water for storage and coupled with a bore, surely this should do the job.

Another question, are solar pumps available for this type of operation ?

By the way, thanks for all the information and as others are doing it and as most of them are subsistance farmers, I am sure that it can be done for the reasons I want it to be done and benefit the local farmer a little.

Rice paddy tilling starts after the first decent rainfall ,and seed planting starts then after about 30 days the plantlets are planted out ,again depends on the rain arriving,harvest is about Xmas but some varietys are earlier than others. Its all a seasonal thing with no real timetable, some seasons the rice matures earlier than others.

There is not a lot of difference in growing sticky and jasmine or Hom Mali ,I have found the fragrant varieties mature a week or so earlier in our area.

Why not consider a windmill instead of solar.

[ozzydom]

Seeing that you'll be helping them out with the borehole(s) & electric, maybe you should get them to realize that they don't really need to burn off their stubble....

Spoken like a true CM resident. But having lived 4 years at Hang Dong I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[MrPaddy]

Thanks for your wisdom, but I stated in my opening post that it was for aesthetic purposes, not farming for a profit purposes. Otherwise I would have asked perhaps some pertinent question about farming it and income relative to it.

I also since stated this again another 2 times at least.

Forgive me for thinking that any normal person could understand this, several others did and they did not need to jump on their 'farming' knowledge bandwagon and tell me how ridiculous my idea is.

Since then several helpfull people have replied with knowing or seeing this in action. The most practical information being the sighting of many farmers in the neighbourhood of posters which happen to be subsistance farmers, not conglomerates or wealthy gentile farang folk with deep pockets farming for the fun of it.

Secondly I asked and stated that I wanted the rice as a second crop to keep the area lush and green, but I had thought about alternative crops. MF's solution was cassava, not the evergreen type of crop that looks aesthetic to me, too woody for me and nothing like a low level rich green crop etc.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the information, but when posts seem negative to me I will say so. You can read the other posts for yourself and see that they are not and were in the direction I was wanting it to go.

I do not believe I need to post the water table level and the quality of the water to get the information I aksed, I will evaluate that myself when the time is right. If water is not available, then it is not available and then asking any questions re this on here will not help me raise the water table will it.

I simply asked for the size, perhaps the cost of pumps and boreholes here and cost of providing this water for a second crop. That is all, the rest will come later. I also mentioned that if it costs me xxxxx amount, this may be ok with me, but if it costs 100 times that amount then it would not be ok. Granted the cost of pumping is relative to the depth of the water, so then a relative example of 10 meters and 20 meters may be helpfull.

Also, I am a designer, so it may be useless for you to try to tell me how I should design the aesthetics for this house in this valley in this situation, but I appreciate the thoughts.

And finally, yes I am inexperienced in rice and crop farming, but not necessarily other types, so no need to boost any egos with the 'farming newbi' tag.

But again, thanks for your thoughts and all is said here with a smile on my dial.

Cheers

[chownah]

But what time of year does the rice planting start and stop ?

And what is the difference between growing the fragrant rice and any other variety ?

When to plant rice is determined by the variety of rice, the weather in your area, the availability of water in your area, and the availability of labor in your area.

There really is no difference between fragrant rice and other types. For steamed rice I grow Kow Dok Mali 105 which is what is grown around where I live for fragrant rice...I also think that it is the major variety grown throughout Thailand but I'm not sure on that. For sticky rice I grow Kow Gaw Khaw 6. These two varietites are what almost everyone around here plants. The locals do everything the same for these two varieties....I make minor adjustments for each but the adjustments are minor and if done properly should increase yields...but its a fine point and so far my "fine tuning" has not been detrimental but to show definite improvement will probably require me to improve my techniques and to use them for a few years to be sure that what I'm doing is working or if other factors cause the difference in yields....there are many factors which affect rice yields and it seems difficult to try to isolate one to show its affect.

These two varieties are planted in nursery at the same time (June or July) and transplanted out at the same time and harvested at the same time. It can be done this way because they are both day length sensitive varieties and they have the same critical day length....this means that there is a long window of opportunity for planting and any rice of either of these varieties planted in that long window of time will mature on a certain date...or within a couple of days....this is because when the day length gets to the critical day length then the maturing process is triggered and for these two varieties it takes the same length of time from the start of the maturing process to ripeness...within a couple of days anyway.

Some varieties of rice are not day length sensitive.....these varieties have a certain number of days from emergence (sprouts emerge from the ground) until maturity and the length of the day has no influence at all....they can be planted at any time of the year as far as I know...I've never grown any of these but I'm considering it because an early crop would fit into some of my rotation plans better than the day length sensitve kinds we've been growing.

Chownah

Edited March 10, 2008 by chownah

[MrPaddy]

How stupid of me, sometimes the most obvious thing you never think of.

Yes a windmill would be an excellent choice and I thank you for pointing that out and it really should have been obvious to me, but sometimes the obvious is forgotten.

Also windmills seem to be such old school these days, you never see them around so much anymore.

Anyway, good alternative to look into than solar, although I still want to weigh up both systems as the solar would come into its own when needed in the dry season, plenty sun and no clouds, or less anyway.

[MrPaddy]

So if the fragrant variety is producing much better prices then why is not everyone planting it, especially if very little in growing conditions and requirements.

How about brown rice, I like brown rice myself and would definitley like to get the farmer to plant a patch of this for me as payment for the land and water perhaps.

[ozzydom]

Thanks for your wisdom, but I stated in my opening post that it was for aesthetic purposes, not farming for a profit purposes. Otherwise I would have asked perhaps some pertinent question about farming it and income relative to it.

I also since stated this again another 2 times at least.

Forgive me for thinking that any normal person could understand this, several others did and they did not need to jump on their 'farming' knowledge bandwagon and tell me how ridiculous my idea is.

Since then several helpfull people have replied with knowing or seeing this in action. The most practical information being the sighting of many farmers in the neighbourhood of posters which happen to be subsistance farmers, not conglomerates or wealthy gentile farang folk with deep pockets farming for the fun of it.

Secondly I asked and stated that I wanted the rice as a second crop to keep the area lush and green, but I had thought about alternative crops. MF's solution was cassava, not the evergreen type of crop that looks aesthetic to me, too woody for me and nothing like a low level rich green crop etc.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the information, but when posts seem negative to me I will say so. You can read the other posts for yourself and see that they are not and were in the direction I was wanting it to go.

I do not believe I need to post the water table level and the quality of the water to get the information I aksed, I will evaluate that myself when the time is right. If water is not available, then it is not available and then asking any questions re this on here will not help me raise the water table will it.

I simply asked for the size, perhaps the cost of pumps and boreholes here and cost of providing this water for a second crop. That is all, the rest will come later. I also mentioned that if it costs me xxxxx amount, this may be ok with me, but if it costs 100 times that amount then it would not be ok. Granted the cost of pumping is relative to the depth of the water, so then a relative example of 10 meters and 20 meters may be helpfull.

Also, I am a designer, so it may be useless for you to try to tell me how I should design the aesthetics for this house in this valley in this situation, but I appreciate the thoughts.

And finally, yes I am inexperienced in rice and crop farming, but not necessarily other types, so no need to boost any egos with the 'farming newbi' tag.

But again, thanks for your thoughts and all is said here with a smile on my dial.

Cheers

For somebody who is THINKING of buying some land ,on which they are THINKING of sinking a bore to grew a crop that will be aesthetically pleasing when viewed from the house they are THINKING of building,you have become an expert and really dont need advise From we common farmers.

There is a garden forum for those seeking aesthetics.

Never bite the hand that tries to feed you ,it could lead to hunger.

[chownah]

So if the fragrant variety is producing much better prices then why is not everyone planting it, especially if very little in growing conditions and requirements.

How about brown rice, I like brown rice myself and would definitley like to get the farmer to plant a patch of this for me as payment for the land and water perhaps.

Traditionally fragrant rice has a better price than sticky rice so farmers with good conditions for fragrant rice grow as much of it as they can....however fragrant rice and as far as I know rice varieties for steamed rice (rice varieties planted for steamed rice are called "kow chow" in Thai)in general are more susceptible to certain pathogens than are some varieties for sticky rice.....around where I live there is a disease that only the kow chow gets (or only gets to an appreciable degree) and some years it is present and some years it is not....so...growing kow chow is risky which offsets the potential extra profit from the higher price....also varieties of sticky rice give bigger yields than fragrant rice around where I live in Chiangrai....so this is a factor too.

This last year the price for sticky rice was actually higher than for kow chow for the first time that anyone can remember...so if this happens again this coming year it will tend to push people toward the sticky rice varieties I guess.....we'll see.

Chownah

Edited March 10, 2008 by chownah

[slapout]

Mr. Paddy; Windmills for irrigation have been discussed more than once on informative posts. Solar pumps and windmills are both going to give about the same volume, enough for livestock. There are several contributing factors to determine the max. volume each is capable of producing. It is impossible to give a cost for a borehole if you do not know the depth to which it will be drilled, size of bore desired (required) strata your drilling thru, location etc. The pump cost and suggested capability will be determined by the first two, plus other factors, such as water level in borehole, volume required, power source required etc. I am still a newby when it comes to farming but can see the need for as much info as possible to give suggestions and requested help on topics relating to farming which have so many variables involved. Many we have no control over but the man made variables we do and those must be taken into account first.

[MrPaddy]

For somebody who is THINKING of buying some land ,on which they are THINKING of sinking a bore to grew a crop that will be aesthetically pleasing when viewed from the house they are THINKING of building,you have become an expert and really dont need advise From we common farmers.

There is a garden forum for those seeking aesthetics.

Never bite the hand that tries to feed you ,it could lead to hunger.

Well, you know what, if you and your counterpart cannot offer the information that I was asking in particular, then please just ignore this thread and get back to the vegies.

I also posted this in the farming thread as it is info required on rice farming, last I heard rice was a farmed commodity and not a gardened one right ?

And yes I am thinking to buy (have actually paid deposit) and thinking to build and thinking to put in this design. Forgive me for doing some research first and making an informed decision.

Slapout, thanks for the info and I can appreciate the variables, but before you have the accurate information required, it is handy to have a ball park amount of info from others as to relative costs. Someone who has sunk a bore and equipped it obviously would know how much that cost and what it can provide in water quantities. Someone else should know how much water is required to provide for rice in the dry season for a second crop for this size. Someone else should have information on an example of a bore sunk on their property or in their area of say 10 meters, someone else perhaps 20 meters.

Also Slapout, I have never seen a windmill or solar setup being adequate for pumping large volumes for flood irrigation as required with rice. I have seen them pump to refilling dams and in particulalr 'turkey nests' but these again are usually used for stock rather than irrigation. Would the constant flow from a windmill be enough to keep the paddy full of water ?

From all of this I can then make a judgement.

Like the four or five other posters who posted very relevant information and thanks very much again to those people, simply knowing first hand that other subsistance farmers are doing it, means that it is possible, it cannot be too expensive to do or they would not do it and if it was not worthwhile, then they would not do it again the next year. Seems logical, but then TIT and I would like to confirm it a little better.

So instead of condescending info from a couple of people, I highly appreciate and value the information from the others.

And if someone does not like the fact that I am doing this for aesthetic reasons and not 'farming' reasons, then just realise that this is 8 rai, plus maybe another 10 or so. All up no more than 8 acres, this is not even of a decent size to be called a hobby farm back home. So don't get your knickers in a knot and all crotchety about one farang in los wanting to grow rice for another reason.

Don't forget, this will benifit at least one, maybe two or three farmers in my area and benefit me for the type of property I want to design. Yes you rough and rugged farming dudes may not be happy with a yuppy designer coming in and building a sweet home in your paddies, but it will be worth 10 times what your paddy is worth when I am done, so go chew on them oats.

Chownah seems to be the only real farmer that does not have a farming chip on his shoulder and can have a laugh about anything. I thought farmers were more laid back and not so highly strung as some seem to be. Chill and go eat a home grown zucchini or such. See cannot even spell zucchini, I would never make a good farmer...err gardener.

The leaves go up. Classic.

Edited March 11, 2008 by MrPaddy

[chownah]

MrPaddy,

The first thing you need to do is to ask around your location and find out how deep the water is in the wells during the dry season....it could be anything from two metres to two hundred metres....this is really the first thing you need to know before you can make any plans about types of equipment or acreage (raiage?) to be covered. Did you post where your project is located?

Solar and wind can be used to pump as much water as you want...there really is no limit except for the money to pay for it...

Chownah

Edited March 11, 2008 by chownah

[Gary A]

I cannot be considered much of a farmer either. We do have about 23 rai but up until now, and even now I have been spending money and have not seen a single baht return. The people who put in ponds have absolutely no idea of what a recreation pond would look like. They are all rectangular or square even if you draw them a picture, they do what they think is best. The original ten rai plot is nearly useless for what I had in mind. After I had it cleared there were a few good hardwood trees left. The locals cut them down and stole the wood. I put in a pond and stocked it. They stole the fish even though they were still small. My wife had peanuts, peppers, corn and melons planted. How many do you think we got? VERY little. That pond will now be used strictly to irrigate the new rice paddies that I just paid 11,000 baht to have made. Eucalyptus will be planted in the area that is left.

The second ten rai is near the village and the road has quite a bit of traffic. I thought it would be a safer spot to grow things and have some fish for my recreation. It already had a small pond that I had enlarged. (twice) Most of the property has fruit trees, mostly somoh and some mangoes. I cleaned out the jungle and saved most of the fruit trees. This year some had quite a bit of fruit. The pond was stocked and doing nicely. My wife was feeding the fish every day. The pond is quite deep and had vegetation growing in the center. It would be difficult to net fish out of that pond. NOT! One day the pond was all stirred up, some of the vegetation ripped up and very few fish remained. Never underestimate thieves. Of course the fruit was stolen too. I have resigned myself to the fact that you can have nothing nice and have told my wife to concentrate on rice and forget about fruit and fish. The two rai the house sits on has a two meter high block wall around it. That's where my hobby garden must be. If you want anything decent, you must have high walls, live on the property and a big dog doesn't hurt anything.

The second ten rai farm was where I wanted to eventually build a house. A concrete road is planned and with it will come electricity. There will be VERY few improvements to that piece of land until/if the road is built and I have a house there. BASTARDS!

[mobile69]

Gary, they steal from the local farmers too. The guy who keeps a couple of cows & some chickens across the dirt road from us had his chickens stolen one night. This a poor farmer who scrapes a living off the land, grows a few veggies, some rice on land that isn't his. The other farmers pumping water to fill their rice paddy spend the nights by their pumps. Even take the 2" piping home when finished. We have two German Shepherds & 3 "nearly German shepherds". They make a lot of noise when someones around at night, but you assume it's just farmers out early.

[mobile69]

They do not burn it in this little area, perhaps too close to the village, but either way they graze cattle on it.

Are you sure you're in Thailand

[MrPaddy]

I think so, they look asian to me.

Sad to hear about the theft, have not ever heard of it being to this extent that you have experienced.

Guess we will be getting a dog.

Or for Ozzy's benefit....thinking about getting a dog

So Chownah, do you know how much it would cost for a solar setup ? For arguements sake lets use 10 meters as the depth and I will adjust when I know more about the ground water table.

[Maizefarmer]

How stupid of me, sometimes the most obvious thing you never think of.

Yes a windmill would be an excellent choice and I thank you for pointing that out and it really should have been obvious to me, but sometimes the obvious is forgotten.

Also windmills seem to be such old school these days, you never see them around so much anymore.

Anyway, good alternative to look into than solar, although I still want to weigh up both systems as the solar would come into its own when needed in the dry season, plenty sun and no clouds, or less anyway.

MrPaddy - this is a 15-20rai area. I understand where you are coming from in trying to improve asethetics (not that I agree with it - but thats another matter), I just can't see it happening. I was thinking about it last night. This is not like trying to water some big 15 - 20rai equivilant sized garden in Europe or the USA. Nope, the issues here are very different.

So far you have asked about which pump type/power type would be best. i.e. solar/wind/diesel/electricty. In reality I believe this will turn out to be one the least of your problems in implementing such the plan - but fine, if you feel I was "negative" - okay, let me invite you to take advantage of my professional training as an ag engineer (not as a famer ironically -although its what I do for a living) - lets work through the basics of this and see if its at all viable. lets go about it as one should.

First - what water supplies do you have, or will you have access to that you will be able to use for this project? Are they subterrianian (depth immaterial at this stage) or are the surface? If surafce, do you have a river or a dam within 50 yard or so of the land that can provide sufficent water for 15 -20rai

Secondly - what energy sources do you have access to (we'll discuss which is best later)?

Thirdly - you need to decide what you want to grow e.g. the water requirements for rice will be about 100 - 500 times what is going to be needed for crops/vegetation that are not reliant on swamped soil condtions. Actually I can't help thinking this should be the first issue to be decided - but what the hel_l, they are all pretty much as relivant - so lets start with them.

[MrPaddy]

MF, I have not read the above post in full as yet, I will tomorrow, have to go out now. I only read the first few lines again where you say it is an impossibility.

If it is such an impossibility, to use a colorful term 'pushin shit uphill' then could you tell me why and how are these subsistance farmers doing it in the areas discussed. I myself have seen the second crop in many areas, one I know of for sure has very good water supply granted, but others not so sure and as mentioned by several posters, it is happening in very dry areas, with bores.

For the life of me I cannot see why it is claimed to be impossible when it simply is happening before peoples eyes.

Thankyou for commenting on you understanding what I want, but not agreeing with it. I have no problem with this, we have different views on the use of the land. This particular block will lend itself very well to what I want it to look like, other blocks simply would not and for sure should remain rice/farm land.

Cheers

[Lickey]

Mr Paddy, there is a borehole post at the top of forum topics page, farmers from all over Thai have posted prices ect on this subject, Personally, our 10mtr bore ran dry this time last year, the pump was pulled out and the bore extented to 23mtr, 10,000 bht, i bought a new pump and gave the old 1 back to BIL, [independance day!!!} Franklin Electric [uSA} 1hp about 50 gallons a minute, 12000bht, this feeds a 2300ltr holding tank 700bht, then a booster pump started by a level control float in the tank 420bht powers the sprinklers, mini for raised salad beds and impact sprinklers [12mtr] for banana and papaya, mini sprinklers water the salad in the morning and evening, the big ones are on a timer and and water 5 hours a night, the ground is cool then and holds the water better, timer was 1200 bht from Homepro, Udon Thani,

Our 40rai farm is totally enclosed with barbed wire, and as yet havent had any thieves [that we know of] and ive just spent the last 2 days hacking off the dead banana and papaya leaves and evaluating when our next sale for these will be, banana, 2 weeks, about 3000 hands, papaya, 4 weeks, about 3.500kgs, that pleases me, keeps me in beer and fertilizer for a few months, and about 2 months time the rain will really start, yes, its great for fruit trees,rice paddies ect and its also great for weeds and grass in your crops.

Farmers here grow sweetcorn as a second crop on there paddy, mind you, there is a river to pump out of, further up the hill, the use a generator or a Kubuta powered genie to run the bore pump, our farm is all electric and the last bill was 315bht for the pumps,1 month..

Lamyai or Tamarind trees are evergreen, they need little care and have tasty fruits, a pleasant addition to the banks of the paddies and pleasing also in the way of fruit, Im with you on this one, i love to see lush green plants/fields, it tells me something is growing and life on earth isnt over yet, good luck with whatever you do MrPaddy, Cheers, Lickey..

[MrPaddy]

MrPaddy - this is a 15-20rai area. I understand where you are coming from in trying to improve asethetics (not that I agree with it - but thats another matter), I just can't see it happening. I was thinking about it last night. This is not like trying to water some big 15 - 20rai equivilant sized garden in Europe or the USA. Nope, the issues here are very different.

So far you have asked about which pump type/power type would be best. i.e. solar/wind/diesel/electricty. In reality I believe this will turn out to be one the least of your problems in implementing such the plan - but fine, if you feel I was "negative" - okay, let me invite you to take advantage of my professional training as an ag engineer (not as a famer ironically -although its what I do for a living) - lets work through the basics of this and see if its at all viable. lets go about it as one should.

First - what water supplies do you have, or will you have access to that you will be able to use for this project? Are they subterrianian (depth immaterial at this stage) or are the surface? If surafce, do you have a river or a dam within 50 yard or so of the land that can provide sufficent water for 15 -20rai

Secondly - what energy sources do you have access to (we'll discuss which is best later)?

Thirdly - you need to decide what you want to grow e.g. the water requirements for rice will be about 100 - 500 times what is going to be needed for crops/vegetation that are not reliant on swamped soil condtions. Actually I can't help thinking this should be the first issue to be decided - but what the hel_l, they are all pretty much as relivant - so lets start with them.

ok, thanks MF for the effort here, even though you do agree with what I want to do. Not sure why as not everywhere on the planet can be a farm or want to be a farm.

I want rice. Why do I want rice, because it looks great over seceral acres of flat land with mountains and trees in the background. It is a rich green crop usually unifrom height and thickness over the area. To be a little gay "it looks nice". The look is also what I want to facilitate the house desing, simple, straight and level lines. So if you can just look at it from a 'design' concept for a minute rather than a farm one, you may appreciate my thoughts. Several high end hotels in the Chiang Mai and Rai areas have done this and they are stunning.

With the rice, the vista looking out from the house and balconies will be accross low level rich green fields. This is what I am looking for, not a high standing crop such as cassava or sugar, or corn etc. Although I will look at these if the rice deal is too costly per month for the second crop.

On one border of the land is a wet season creek, this creek currently has some water in it, not flowing and can be cleaned out to increase the holding capacity. However I am not planning to use this for irrigation unless I have to incorporate a bore and holding facility. The water table I do not know as yet as mentioned, but was told it is not deep, that is all I know just now.

On the other boundary, is the village and road access, we have town power and water available there.

It is not a dry area, there is a river say about 4/500 meters from this land and it is in a mountain area with good rainfall. Two other creek beds I found not too far away have water in them now, but not flowing, but large pools. The river mentioned 4/500 meters away is flowing and strong and not from a dam source.

Now that was an effort with a hangover.

[Maizefarmer]

Okay fair enough - I was thinking about it and thought .... well, if the guy wants to have a 20 rai garden, then so be it - let him have his 20rai garden. It will be a lof of work, but its not impossible.

Then I thought, well if it's rice it will actually be a lot easier to look after - except of course for the water side of things - especialy to start with. So I threw some ideas around in my head using 2 criteria to define a way forward:

1) Practicalities

2) Costings

Combined I setteled on using an old skid/trailor mounted 3litre pick-up truck engine to drive a 2 - 2, 5 tonn per minute water pump, and as you didn't specifiy the height differance between the land and the river, I have used a differance of 10 - 15meters (max). The reasoning behind the diesel driven pump was a combination of: distance/height the water had to be moved, the volume that had to be moved, versus the time over which you had to move it, portability, relaibility, energy source (i.e. it had to be diesel or 3phase ac - I didn;t think solar would be any good simply because of the cost of solar driven equipment to move the volume you will need - and its a whacking great big volume as you will see) and last but not least, as i have just said: initial capaital layout.

Tubing I settled on 2,5" - 3" pvc tubing - or if you wish, you may like to haul yourself down to the Chonburi scrap yards where you will find loads of old 30meter fire hoses with couplings on the end to join them together (they are great things to have and I have a whole load of them at home) but they are not cheaper than blue pvc tubing.

I came up with a figure of Baht 120 - 150k to put the engine/pump together - mounted on a steel skid or trailor, and added Baht50k for 500meters of 3" tubing to include adhesive, joints and labour to lay it all).

I worked out a volume of - wait for it - 12 000 000 - 14 000 000 litres of water would be required (initially - as about 25% - 30% would initialy soak straight into the ground below, then filling would start and you qwould be left with around 8 000 000 - 9 000 000litres) for your 15 - 20rai - to get a water depth of around 15cm - 20cm, which the above pump will move for you over about 70hrs - 90hrs.

So add another Baht 15 000 for diesel (Baht 30 p/liter for 500litres)

So you would be looking at about Baht 175 000 - 205 000 to get everything together and up and running.

Now then - there is one problem: I don;t grow rice, I know nothing about growing the stuff - I do not grow it, so I am not going down the rice growing path (there are others on the forum who know the subject quite well). But I do know that water evaporates, and from a rice paddy in the dry season your water level will drop around 0,3cm - 0,5cm per day.

Thsi means you are going to have ongoing water pumping costs throughout the dry season. In fact each month (if not less) in the dry climate that the air will be, you will land up having to pump the equivilant of the intial volume, or pretty much close to it.

So add in the cost of:

1) rice stock to plant (what it is - I don't know).

2) fertilser

3) labour

4) pump fuel (Baht 500 per month)

........and there you have it!

Last 2 things: you ill have to speak to neighbours about the noise the pump is going to make and you will have to get permission to lay the tubing over their land (or is it your land?).

I think a first year fugure will be in the region of around Baht 300 000 wouldn't be far off.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Maizefarmer

[MrPaddy]

See, that didn't hurt so much huh ?

Thanks for the effort and thought gone into it and that being positive thought now.

While your initial setup cost estimates are ok with me, I do believe they can come down somewhat and there has to be a quieter way to pump it.

The land the pipes run over will be mine and the neighbour who will benefit from it, no problem from him I would imagine.

The running costs of fertilizer, rice stock, labour will not be mine, but the farmer who will be doing it. As will the income from it be his.

I have no problem with the monthly fuel bill.

As mentioned, I do not want to farm this myself. All I wish to do is provide the water facility and let the people that have been farming this area for decades continue. Only difference is they will get the benefit of water in the off season to reap a second crop at no extra cost to them other than the normal costs they have for the annual crop.

The end result is, the farmers get some extra income from a second crop. I get some free rice, hopefully a brown variety and more importantly, I get the fields surrounding the house and in the main foreground green and lush the majority of the year instead of less than half of it.

I hope Chownah can come in and comment on the pump style you recommend and the water volumes and pumping costs.

I also do not think 500 metres of piping will be required, that is an awful lot. We also have the irrigation ditch in which they use to channel the water from the creek in the wet season to all the paddy fields. I am wondering if this can be utilised and if the loss of water in this ditch during the dry season would be enough to warrant and offset the cost of the piping.

Flexible pipe would be the best suited I think so it can be moved easily from paddy to paddy.

You know, to me the cost of maintaining this type of landscape would be cheaper than maintaining a large lawn and garden. So to me it seems a winning scenario for all.

That is if the farmers actually want to grow a second crop, they may not want to as its the off sleepy season and all.

Cheers and thanks again MF.

Edited March 13, 2008 by MrPaddy

[MrPaddy]

Attention Chownah !!!!

If you have the time and inclination, or if it is already posted elsewhere, I did look a bit, could you post some information on how to grow organic rice successfully.

Certainly interested to hear how it is done from someone actually doing it.

Cheers.

[Maizefarmer]

Fair enough - if you feel you can get the costs down, then by all means if you follow through on this project - get back and let me know exactly what you do and how you about getting the costs down.

A quieter way to pump? - yes, certainly - I can think of a 3 or 4 things that could be done to quieten the pumping down, to include sinking the pump into a hole in the ground with a cheap roof thrown over - but its all relative i.e. additional cost versus benefit, and changing either the the type of pump or how you install it is the first in a long line of things that will push capital layout up.

Less than 500meters - good. 500 meters was the figure you gave - but when you come round to doing it if you find you need less, that will be a bonus.

Indeed, it will be far cheaper to maintain than an equivilant sized garden - from that perspective it makes sense, but from a crop perspective keep in mind that growing rice in the dry season introduces considerations that farmers never have to consider in the rainy season, and with even with crop prices as high as they currently are, the line between profit/loss from a rice crop can still be tight - however, if you are going to supply the land, and carry irrigation costs, I don't think you are going to have a problem finding a local who'll want to give it a go.

[MrPaddy]

I certainly shall post whatever eventuates.

Thanks again for all the advice and recommendations in this thread.