Expatriates Continue To Rank Singapore As The Top Place To Live In Asia

[Heng]

i may have to disagree with you on that one Heng. in my last few years in Bkk many of the prettiest girls of the ahem, entertainment industry, that i have come across have spent some time in Sg, so many in fact that it hardly surprises me anymore to hear of their varied experiences. the vast majority of them do not do the "4 Floors", but are on more private arrangements involving agents and hotels, either that or they do the volume business at Geylang....its the easiest way for them to make a quick couple of million baht and retire back to their home town and open a salon or whatever.

i have come across many who wish to go but did not "make the grade" because the agents are very particular due to the high level of competition from China, Vietnam, and elsewhere...if they aren't sure of the turnover potential, they won't take the risk of taking them over to Sg, so only the best looking make it across.

this observation checks out with many of my friends from Sg, mostly professionals in finance and law, who used to come here quite often, but they are now generally less enthusiastic about entertainment in Bkk due to other options when they travel and also because, according to them, they get more variety in Sg and even the Thai's there are better looking. i suppose the 4 Floors is a bad representation of what is actually out there in Sg. i have seen some bizarrely beautiful women there in the Karoake scene, like 6 ft tall northern Chinese with green eyes, supermodels from Hanoi, statuesque songstresses from Guangdong...you get the picture.

For myself, the generalization holds true for other areas as well, but of course one's results may vary, and my SG experience may be limited as I only go 4-5 times a year, and nowadays rarely even stay a night so I only 'book' in advance to kill a few hours at the hotel before my flight back.

While I do agree that there is an 'export grade,' like many countries, even that is often WELL below 'high end' local consumption grade for Thailand.

It's one of those round and round drinking discussions, one guy may bring a girl who he insists is a doppelganger for Tata Young, while to another she looks more like his Khmer maid after her motorcycle accident. Both guys believe they are right, and they are...

(although I think we all know there are more folks snickering at the first guy; but as long as he's happy, why should he care?).

Edited March 14, 2008 by Heng

[Prakanong]

SPG - I still have not seen one and I go to all the right places - I reckon they are extinct now

Go to Balaclava at Suntec - was there on Weds night and the SPG's were out in force

Hmm - I walked past it once on a Friday - may have to visit.

I try not to go out mid-week now as I just can not recover and the next day is really shitty.

Might hit Harry's tonight though - lets see how my day is - I have HQ on the back foot with a report I delivered yesterday so they might leave me alone today

[Captain Chaos]

SPG - I still have not seen one and I go to all the right places - I reckon they are extinct now

Go to Balaclava at Suntec - was there on Weds night and the SPG's were out in force

Hmm - I walked past it once on a Friday - may have to visit.

I try not to go out mid-week now as I just can not recover and the next day is really shitty.

Might hit Harry's tonight though - lets see how my day is - I have HQ on the back foot with a report I delivered yesterday so they might leave me alone today

Yes - going out on a Wednesday is usually "work" ... no, really, it is!

[mrtoad]

^^I think chewing gum is OK to have but you just can not buy it without a Dr's prescription - I brought some back from Vietnam and it got all the girls in the office excited (yeah it does not take much)

As for not many police around I noticed that too - a long time expat said if trouble starts though they come out of the woodwork pretty sharpish - they got Nick Leeson quick enough for dropping his keg's!!!

It is always said it was in Harry's and people stop and point (tourists etc) but I was once in the company of a guy who swears he was there that night and it was at a bar further down the road

PK, just to clarify, as my memory at times is not as good as the Sngaporean phone recording system, the original Harry's bar was at the back of Boat Quay? Shit my memory is really poor.

Your memory ain't that bad (but have yourself bugged anyway just in case you need to recall any details ) Harry's is right on Boat Quay itself - at the end nearest to the banks and the Fullerton Hotel, next to the Penny Black pub. They still have some pretty well known jazz acts in there if that's your bag (personally not mine).

There are Harry's all over the place now though, including one about a 2 minute walk from my office front door which is proving a bit dangerous!

CC

That's the one I was thinking.

As for the Nick Leeson escapade, I believe it was in one of those upstairs bars on Boat Quay, can't remeber the name of it though.

I'm not going to guess which Harry's you're close to CC, but if it's the one that I was drinking in last week, that would be a dangerous place.

As for the bugging thing, that was doing the rounds in the early 90's and I'm pretty sure that it is an urban legend.

[Prakanong]

Were you in the Harry's opposite the 4 floors?

Plenty of Thai lasses and others in there - I like the band in there - the one with the tranny lead singer

They do a great versions of Father and Son by Cat Stevens, Only Want to be with you by Hootie and the Blowfish and Still Go the Blues for You by Gary Moore

Well they are great by the time they play them and you have been out for 6 hours

[mrtoad]

Were you in the Harry's opposite the 4 floors?

Plenty of Thai lasses and others in there - I like the band in there - the one with the tranny lead singer

They do a great versions of Father and Son by Cat Stevens, Only Want to be with you by Hootie and the Blowfish and Still Go the Blues for You by Gary Moore

Well they are great by the time they play them and you have been out for 6 hours

Yep, I was. I hope Mrs Toad isn't reading this, as she doesn't approve of me being in that area.

That bald tranny lead singer, that's one scary looking individual.

Have to agree, that the band are good though, and I like the bar as it serves Cider and has a few screens so can watch the footie or rugby as well.

[Prakanong]

Were you in the Harry's opposite the 4 floors?

Plenty of Thai lasses and others in there - I like the band in there - the one with the tranny lead singer

They do a great versions of Father and Son by Cat Stevens, Only Want to be with you by Hootie and the Blowfish and Still Go the Blues for You by Gary Moore

Well they are great by the time they play them and you have been out for 6 hours

Yep, I was. I hope Mrs Toad isn't reading this, as she doesn't approve of me being in that area.

That bald tranny lead singer, that's one scary looking individual.

Have to agree, that the band are good though, and I like the bar as it serves Cider and has a few screens so can watch the footie or rugby as well.

Cider is my excuse as well

The tranny is calend Tania I think - thats def the bands name and they used to have their own club I think.

The tranny does not sing much anymore if you notice - its nearly all the big Indian guitarist who is really good.

You do get some rather pretty girls in there (a fair share of hags too) - a big O&G bar and its where guy's look for contacts in the business..

[fire and ice]

The food in Singapore (and also in Hong Kong) is utter rubbish!

I've spent only 3 days in Singapore & 7 in HK over the years, but that was too much enough (food wise). I put on weight in HK as I ended up eating junk food from convenience stores.

Its hard to live off bland food that tastes like cardboard. All the fat is left on the food and the cooks are too lazy to even remove the bones from chopped chicken dishes.

Interestingly when I recently gave my opinion to someone who likes HK food, their reply was "but you have to know where to go..'.

I then pointed out that this proved my point entirely - you shouldn't have to know where to go!!

If you can't blindly stumble on good food everywhere (like in Thailand, but also to a lesser extent in many many cities), and the only food you do find is awful, then a city's food is (by my definition) utter crap!

In other words if you need to know where to find good food then this implies it must be bad in most places or else you wouldn't need to know.

[Captain Chaos]

The food in Singapore (and also in Hong Kong) is utter rubbish!

I've spent only 3 days in Singapore & 7 in HK over the years, but that was too much enough (food wise). I put on weight in HK as I ended up eating junk food from convenience stores.

Its hard to live off bland food that tastes like cardboard. All the fat is left on the food and the cooks are too lazy to even remove the bones from chopped chicken dishes.

Interestingly when I recently gave my opinion to someone who likes HK food, their reply was "but you have to know where to go..'.

I then pointed out that this proved my point entirely - you shouldn't have to know where to go!!

If you can't blindly stumble on good food everywhere (like in Thailand, but also to a lesser extent in many many cities), and the only food you do find is awful, then a city's food is (by my definition) utter crap!

In other words if you need to know where to find good food then this implies it must be bad in most places or else you wouldn't need to know.

Right - a total of 10 days in two major international venues and you're qualified to write off all the food on offer as 'rubbish' Defies belief really ...

Still, there's none so blind as those who won't see ...

CC

[ade100]

The food in Singapore (and also in Hong Kong) is utter rubbish!

I've spent only 3 days in Singapore & 7 in HK over the years, but that was too much enough (food wise). I put on weight in HK as I ended up eating junk food from convenience stores.

Its hard to live off bland food that tastes like cardboard. All the fat is left on the food and the cooks are too lazy to even remove the bones from chopped chicken dishes.

Interestingly when I recently gave my opinion to someone who likes HK food, their reply was "but you have to know where to go..'.

I then pointed out that this proved my point entirely - you shouldn't have to know where to go!!

If you can't blindly stumble on good food everywhere (like in Thailand, but also to a lesser extent in many many cities), and the only food you do find is awful, then a city's food is (by my definition) utter crap!

In other words if you need to know where to find good food then this implies it must be bad in most places or else you wouldn't need to know.

Listen old chap, next time you are spending 3 days in Singapore, give us a call and we can guide you towards food places that will inspire and delight the senses. They are pretty much on every street corner so its no big secret.

Personally I'm rather partial to Dim Sum. We have it in Phuket but its not in the same league as in China Town in Singapore.

Edited March 16, 2008 by ade100

[brianw]

What a wonderful place spent 1year there great entertainment areas Geylang Bugis street lavander road nee soon village every thing free to us Brit redcaps

[zl1vette]

Poor Nick Leeson and his $1.4 BILLION misdemeanor. He should have been taken out and shot. Wonder how many people's jobs and life savings he wiped out through his GREED. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson

[mrtoad]

Poor Nick Leeson and his $1.4 BILLION misdemeanor. He should have been taken out and shot. Wonder how many people's jobs and life savings he wiped out through his GREED. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson

You must be pretty naive, it wasn't just Leeson's greed, the bank were just as greedy.

[torrenova]

Poor Nick Leeson and his $1.4 BILLION misdemeanor. He should have been taken out and shot. Wonder how many people's jobs and life savings he wiped out through his GREED. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson

Are you one of those clowns that think he has it hidden under his bed or buried in the forest ?

I don't have all year to explain the financial markets to you but lets say there were not enough controls in place and Barings were guilty of believing what they wanted to believe after promoting a virtual clerk to a position whereby he could bring down the bank.

Same with that froggy bank last month.

[Captain Chaos]

Poor Nick Leeson and his $1.4 BILLION misdemeanor. He should have been taken out and shot. Wonder how many people's jobs and life savings he wiped out through his GREED. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson

Are you one of those clowns that think he has it hidden under his bed or buried in the forest ?

I don't have all year to explain the financial markets to you but lets say there were not enough controls in place and Barings were guilty of believing what they wanted to believe after promoting a virtual clerk to a position whereby he could bring down the bank.

Same with that froggy bank last month.

Yeah, bit off topic I know but since it has been raised ... both Barings and SocGen were guilty of looking at reported profit (on paper) and slapping themselves on the backs about how clever they were, without reconciling the reported profit to the actual cashflow (which for Barings at least was a consistent outflow as counterparties made their margin calls on Leeson's positions as the market went against him - and this was what eventually brought the bank down)

Simple rule - profit is only profit when it turns into cash in the bank - if you can't understand the relationship between the two then there's likely something very wrong

"Cash is King" if you prefer, and I'm sure most businesspeople or professional advisors would agree...

CC

[Captain Chaos]

Poor Nick Leeson and his $1.4 BILLION misdemeanor. He should have been taken out and shot. Wonder how many people's jobs and life savings he wiped out through his GREED. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson

Are you one of those clowns that think he has it hidden under his bed or buried in the forest ?

I don't have all year to explain the financial markets to you but lets say there were not enough controls in place and Barings were guilty of believing what they wanted to believe after promoting a virtual clerk to a position whereby he could bring down the bank.

Same with that froggy bank last month.

Yeah, bit off topic I know but since it has been raised ... both Barings and SocGen were guilty of looking at reported profit (on paper) and slapping themselves on the backs about how clever they were, without reconciling the reported profit to the actual cashflow (which for Barings at least was a consistent outflow as counterparties made their margin calls on Leeson's positions as the market went against him - and this was what eventually brought the bank down)

Simple rule - profit is only profit when it turns into cash in the bank - if you can't understand the relationship between the two then there's likely something very wrong

"Cash is King" if you prefer, and I'm sure most businesspeople or professional advisors would agree...

CC

[mrtoad]

Poor Nick Leeson and his $1.4 BILLION misdemeanor. He should have been taken out and shot. Wonder how many people's jobs and life savings he wiped out through his GREED. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson

Are you one of those clowns that think he has it hidden under his bed or buried in the forest ?

I don't have all year to explain the financial markets to you but lets say there were not enough controls in place and Barings were guilty of believing what they wanted to believe after promoting a virtual clerk to a position whereby he could bring down the bank.

Same with that froggy bank last month.

Yeah, bit off topic I know but since it has been raised ... both Barings and SocGen were guilty of looking at reported profit (on paper) and slapping themselves on the backs about how clever they were, without reconciling the reported profit to the actual cashflow (which for Barings at least was a consistent outflow as counterparties made their margin calls on Leeson's positions as the market went against him - and this was what eventually brought the bank down)

Simple rule - profit is only profit when it turns into cash in the bank - if you can't understand the relationship between the two then there's likely something very wrong

"Cash is King" if you prefer, and I'm sure most businesspeople or professional advisors would agree...

CC

CC, couldn't agree more.

Leeson was given a free reign, even though he had little experience in the area that he was da"dabbling in". Although Lesson was the cause of the collapse, anyone in business with a little bit of nous should have picked up upon some of the irregularities and acted upon it accordingly. Whilst cash is king, greed is god.

[numpty]

i go a few times a year and like it

given a decent job/package i d move there

[IMA_FARANG]

Singapore Dominates Asia Region as Best Place to Live , Expatriates continue to rank Singapore as the top place to live in Asia

any one been there , done that and can comment ...?

http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-03-10-voa10.cfm

TL

I haven't lived there but I've traveled there many times. In comparison to BKK or anywhere in Thailand, the one thing you can say about Singapore is EVERYTHING WORKS. The buses, the subway, the infrastructure...it all works well and runs smoothly. Once you know your way around it is easy to go just about anywhere in Singapore. For you Brits....the system is a lot like the U.K. in it's terminology....you hire a flat, not rent an apartment, as an American would say.

But as a Thai friend of mine who had a business in Singapore said....Singapore is for business, Bangkok is for fun.

Here's another thing...I once had my luggage misplaced by the airline on a flight from BKK to SIN. When I got to Singapore I filled out the arrival card there, using the address of the hotel I expected to be in. However, I ended up in a different hotel. The airline deliverd my misplaced bag to the new hotel. I had not told them I had changed my hotel from what I indicated on my arrival card. So how did they know I had changed hotels? Well, the answer is that all hotels in Singapore turn in a list of all guests who check in that day to the Singapore immigration/police. The airline found out from the immigration police that I had changed hotels, so they delivered my bag when they found it to my new hotel.

That's just a little too much efficiency and control for my liking. I"ll take the inefficiency of Thailand.

Stay hungery, Stay free, as we used to say in the 60's.

[ade100]

I haven't lived there but I've traveled there many times. In comparison to BKK or anywhere in Thailand, the one thing you can say about Singapore is EVERYTHING WORKS. The buses, the subway, the infrastructure...it all works well and runs smoothly. Once you know your way around it is easy to go just about anywhere in Singapore. For you Brits....the system is a lot like the U.K. in it's terminology....you hire a flat, not rent an apartment, as an American would say.

Well you often hear Singaporeans talking about "renting a unit in a condo". Don't remember any of that sort of nonsense back in Blighty

Well, the answer is that all hotels in Singapore turn in a list of all guests who check in that day to the Singapore immigration/police. The airline found out from the immigration police that I had changed hotels, so they delivered my bag when they found it to my new hotel.

That's just a little too much efficiency and control for my liking. I"ll take the inefficiency of Thailand.

Stay hungery, Stay free, as we used to say in the 60's.

The thing is I don't really mind if the Singapore police have my name. I'm fairly confident they are not going to just gun me down for no reason (unlike some police forces I could mention). As I'm not a drug dealer, pirate or murderer, why should I care if the Singapore police know my name? But then come to think of it, I do have an unedited "Sex and the City" DVD in my collection...hmmm...perhaps you have a point...

[mrtoad]

The thing is I don't really mind if the Singapore police have my name. I'm fairly confident they are not going to just gun me down for no reason (unlike some police forces I could mention). As I'm not a drug dealer, pirate or murderer, why should I care if the Singapore police know my name? But then come to think of it, I do have an unedited "Sex and the City" DVD in my collection...hmmm...perhaps you have a point...

ade you have hit the nail on the head , people just don't understand the point of this thread in respect of why Singapore is ranked number 1 for expats. I can't be bothered to go into details, but it's pretty simplistic IMO -education, infastructure, safety,corruption,responsibility, efficiency, open markets, forward thnking etc, etc. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work it out. People continue to bang on about human rights, but it's hardly a problem if you are a law abiding citizen. I wish that the UK had embraced a few more Singaporean ideals.

P.S.

I hope you don't have any chewing gum though, as you'll be locked in prison and caned.

[mike_rad]

I hope you don't have any chewing gum though, as you'll be locked in prison and caned.

Or forget to flush a (public) toilet, or jaywalk, or ...

--

[mrtoad]

I hope you don't have any chewing gum though, as you'll be locked in prison and caned.

Or forget to flush a (public) toilet, or jaywalk, or ...

--

Sorry that you missed the irony in the sentence that you've quoted.

[Captain Chaos]

I hope you don't have any chewing gum though, as you'll be locked in prison and caned.

Or forget to flush a (public) toilet, or jaywalk, or ...

--

Sorry that you missed the irony in the sentence that you've quoted.

I got busted for jaywalking a few months back and the fine was a whopping .... wait for it ...S$20. So not much of a deterrent really. Frankly I was too busy fantasizing about the cute policewoman in her very very tight motorcycle jodphurs to get grumpy about it

S$20 is about 400 baht so Mrs CC shrieked with laughter when I told her about this incident and stated that 'Singapore police same Thai police!' until I pointed out that a receipt was provided (I, err, left out the bit about the jodphurs)

Locals in the office said they can't remember the last time this one was actually enforced so the betting is that there had been an RTA with a pedestrian in that area and the cops had been told to crack down...

CC

Edited March 23, 2008 by Captain Chaos

[Loom]

This debate goes back a long time. The Hobbesian dilemma. Hobbes came up with a theory explaining the relationship between government and society (back in the 1600s). Society needs government to keep the peace. There's a tradeoff between individual rights and security. The more individuals claim to be within their right, the greater the probability of conflict or war and vice versa.

Singapore government in recent years has admitted it's gone a little too far but it will take time to change.

[ade100]

Ah yes, Hobbes was actually one of the earliest commentators on Thailand. He spoke of the Thais as being “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short”.

Sorry that’s incredibly facetious of me. He was actually talking about the life of human beings without central government. I certainly agree that life in Singapore, with its tough government is a lot less nasty, brutish and short than in many other countries.

It was a Singaporean taxi driver, as is often the case, who said to me: “We can’t always say exactly what we think here, but we have peace, security and no crime”. I suppose it’s a choice we have to make.

[retirednavyman]

I traveled there extensively during the 80's aboard a US Navy vessel and we would typically pull in long enough to loadout fresh fruits and vegetables and distribute them to the rest of the US Navy fleet (whichever one we happened to be accompanying at the time).

Normally we would pull in for about a day or so unless we were deploying to the Indian Ocean and then we would stay for about 3 days. My impression of Singapore was nothing but favorable, the locals were very nice people and as a US Navy representative at that time, I was always treated with kindness and respect which I always reciprocated. Singapore is a bit on the expensive side as far as daily living expenses go, but nonetheless I would have no reservations about retiring there.

Just my 2 cents

Mike

My Dad who recently died was in the British Merchant Navy during the 1950's and he had only good memories of the place too - I think it might have been a bit wild then.

The band at one of my favourite bar's play's a song each night which reminds me of him and Singapore.

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your father, you have my condolences

Mike

[chickencurry]

Some posters are saying that Singapore is not as much fun as Thailand and rather "sterile". I suppose Thailand can be a lot of fun and it certainly has more germs and viruses.

Personally I find that if I keep my relationship with Thailand at the superficial level, ie. I just pop over for weekends, I find the place very beautiful and a lot of fun. However if my relationship with Thailand starts to get a little deeper, I find it offends every principal that I have been brought up to believe in: Justice, equality, honesty, being polite and courteous, being considerate, resolving conflicts peacefully, etc.

Singapore, on the other hand, believes in equality in the work place, people are encouraged to be courteous and to be good citizens. The government is considerate of quality of life and is busy building walkways, cycle paths, promenades, etc. The people are well educated as the schools, colleges and universities here are of top international standard. Lastly, any man, woman or child can walk anywhere, any time, day or night and not have to feel frightened. It's very liberating.

At the end of the day it's these things that really matter rather than the price of your noodles or whether you like Tiger beer (which incidentally you can buy here even when there is an election or a public holiday).

Curious to know why you don't spend the weekends in Singapore then. Is it to have a break from people walking into you, or maybe to hear English being spoken properly lah? Sorry just my sense of humour

[lowerlakeside]

I Love it there.However i am fortunate to work a month there then back to Thailand for a month.And my first class serviced apartment is picked up by my employer so i dont have the expence of a place to live. But there is LOADS of nite life with many more places than the 4 floors to meet the ladies .Also food is excellent and cheap in both China town and Little India. Clarke Quay and Boat Quay offer lots of trendy pubs and restaurants and you can get a drink any hour of the day if you so choose to. And as others have stated , clean modern efficient safe.Singapore is like a fancy nite out on the town, while thailand is like the local pub down the street.they both have their place with me.

[ade100]

Some posters are saying that Singapore is not as much fun as Thailand and rather "sterile". I suppose Thailand can be a lot of fun and it certainly has more germs and viruses.

Personally I find that if I keep my relationship with Thailand at the superficial level, ie. I just pop over for weekends, I find the place very beautiful and a lot of fun. However if my relationship with Thailand starts to get a little deeper, I find it offends every principal that I have been brought up to believe in: Justice, equality, honesty, being polite and courteous, being considerate, resolving conflicts peacefully, etc.

Singapore, on the other hand, believes in equality in the work place, people are encouraged to be courteous and to be good citizens. The government is considerate of quality of life and is busy building walkways, cycle paths, promenades, etc. The people are well educated as the schools, colleges and universities here are of top international standard. Lastly, any man, woman or child can walk anywhere, any time, day or night and not have to feel frightened. It's very liberating.

At the end of the day it's these things that really matter rather than the price of your noodles or whether you like Tiger beer (which incidentally you can buy here even when there is an election or a public holiday).

Curious to know why you don't spend the weekends in Singapore then. Is it to have a break from people walking into you, or maybe to hear English being spoken properly lah? Sorry just my sense of humour

It’s a good question. The truth is, as you might have guessed, the woman I love is in Phuket. So until I can persuade her to leave the motherland, I am stuck having to spend my weekends on Bang Tao beach, swimming, drinking cocktails and eating in beach cafes. The things we do for love.

:-)