Expatriates Continue To Rank Singapore As The Top Place To Live In Asia

[Prakanong]

So the expats you meet will only spend money if they can expense it -- what guys are you meeting as I know no-one who expenses their bevvy nights out?

Oh the local girls - the famous SPG''s - are you talking about the 1970's here?

Quite right, although I tend to hang out mainly with locals, the Ex-pats that I do know do not go around putting bevvies on expenses that often. As you have said PK it depends who you meet.

As for places that Sochu mentioned, yeah some of them are touristy, but some of them are far from boring, and a few that I mentioned hardly have any ex-pats in. There are other places that I go, but not really for tourists and they would stick out like a sore thumb. As for HBD's yeah some of them aren't so great, but it is still much safer and I have never had a problem walking around them (my ex lived in one Tao Payoh).

Anyway, in the end a place is what you make it, not what others do for you.

First guy's I have been out with who were openly expensing their personal drink were a bunch on Sunday - but believe me these guy's could well afford their own (quite senior bankers with business on the side) but they were starting early as their MD was flying in from London then it was straight to Mortons for a steak and onto the 4 floors.

I have joked before about some of the guy's in Harry's though that are talking about how much they made that day at the bank/stock exchange/trading and will elbow you out of the way faster than a Singaporean at a buffet table to get the Happy Hour prices before it jumps from 9 to 12 dollars at 7

Harry's is a bit of a cliche though but everyone "Does know your name" and I get discount there without me ever asking for it or being told about it as well as getting served quickly without me even having to ask (and I do not go there much now) - only other place I get discount is Morning Night Bar on Suk Soi 4

The music can be very good in there and if anyones in town they often go to jam at Harry's - Harry Connick Jnr's band wer there the other night

[Captain Chaos]

Some classic quotes here Shochu and I am going to post my comments in italics.

CC

Ah yes - singapore is fine if you have a good package which I suspect that most do not have - which most of the expats I meet there like to brag about but whenever we go out for drinks - if they can't expense it - then they are tight with their wad.

That may be your experience but it isn't mine - when we go for a night out we run a tab and then split it evenly at the end of the night - that also applies when I'm drinking with Singaporean colleagues as well as expats ...

The quay and all those places are so toursity I would never go ever again and dam_n boring too.

There are several quays - some are touristy, some aren't, all have some less well known good places tucked away nearby - did you manage to find any of them because I feel you missed out if you only saw the 'touristy bits'?

Singapore is fine if you want a good safer place for the family and you want to reminisce about those long gone colonial days. Yes, I always make sure to insult my Singaporean colleagues by mentioning colonial days at every possible occasion Oh purrrlease....

Many expats like sing because they get treated well there and are stars in the eyes of the local ladies

Goddamn it - I am doing something wrong here

- but once you venter further out to the sticks where most of the gov't housing people live then you see the real sing and then you realize that hey - this place is a sugar coated place where we should only hang out in our expat mandated zones.

Utter tosh - I have been invited to Singaporean colleagues residences on occasion and been made very welcome - perhaps your attitude to their country turned the locals off a bit?

Funny how most of the singaporeans I meet want to leave the place - wonder why?

Agree, some certainly do, but not all - and since most folks on this forum are by definition expats and wanderers, I guess the average Singaporean (or indeed Thai) might wander why all these Brits/Americans/Europeans/Aussies/delete as appropriate wish to live outside their own home countries...

Sorry guys - if you like sing but hey just telling it like i see it.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion and as this is a forum for sharing ideas, it's great that you are doing so - but some of us are also entitled to disagree

Bangkok - and I am surprised about this as I have never lived there - has many places open very late - places that get started when other places are closing - which I won't name here to cause headaches for them.

Yes, I've been to plenty of them over the years But lots of cities have these so not sure what the significance is?

The funnest city in asia is by far Tokyo. Fukuoka is not bad if you know where you are going - much like tokyo - but you must have a japanese friend showing you where to go.

Pusan - small - give me a break. It has over 4 million people. It is spread out over many areas because of the mountains and sea so maybe you thought you were in pusan when you were just in one section. Also a fun place.

Regret to say I have never been to Japan or Korea but from what you describe, they certainly sound good!

[Captain Chaos]

Anyway, in the end a place is what you make it, not what others do for you.

Wot Toady said.

Q.E.D.

[game4shame]

Then the city area has the usual wine bar and bistro get-ups for the city slickers.

Thailand just doesnt compare

exactly - that's why BKK's nightlife is better IMO.

wine bars and bistros? too pretentious for me I'm afraid.

just my opinion of course.

[game4shame]

the orchard 'four floors' joint has been mentioned - the place is a total dump.

I agree - it is a dump (albeit a famous dump) that's why I mentioned a few alternatives - complaining that the Floors is a dump is like saying that Patpong is a sh*thole full of low lives - talk about stating the obvious

it was comments like the following I was referring to CC:

Orchard Towers...Now that brings back memories.

Friends who have been there tell stories of a place called "Four Floors of W_____". They seemed quite impressed.

my only memory of orchard towers is wanting to vomit.......and it certainly didn't impress me.

whatever floats your boat.

[Prakanong]

the orchard 'four floors' joint has been mentioned - the place is a total dump.

I agree - it is a dump (albeit a famous dump) that's why I mentioned a few alternatives - complaining that the Floors is a dump is like saying that Patpong is a sh*thole full of low lives - talk about stating the obvious

it was comments like the following I was referring to CC:

Orchard Towers...Now that brings back memories.

Friends who have been there tell stories of a place called "Four Floors of W_____". They seemed quite impressed.

my only memory of orchard towers is wanting to vomit.......and it certainly didn't impress me.

whatever floats your boat.

People do not go to the 4 floors for the upmarket ambiance just as they do not go to many BKK or Pattaya bar's for the same - horses for courses

Well apparently its been sold en-bloc so it may not be there much longer.

Its still a lot cleaner than a lot of BKK Bar area's though if you see them with the lights on and I would trust the wiring more there

[Trevor]

Couldn't pay me to live there ... hate the scum !

------------------

Why?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore

For a start I don't like Chinese, who constitute 75% of the population. The Thai-Chinese I can stand because they have been well house-trained by their hosts. But the rest are just plain rude, hard, narrow-minded, dirty, and have disgusting personal habits. Do you really want to live in a country where they have to put up signs everywhere saying 'No Spitting'?

It is by far the most expensive country in S.E. Asia, and it is certainly not good value. The food is nothing special, it's over-cooked and high in unhealthy refined carbohydrates; give me som-tam or sashimi any day.

Remember Nick Leeson? The prison food gave him cancer and they sent him back to sleep on a concrete floor 2 weeks after removing a third of his colon. His stomach staples then split open. Oh, and he was one of the lucky ones to actually be granted a trial rather than a 15-year stretch for unspecified misdemeanors.

Even Singaporeans dream of getting out and migrating somewhere civilised ... like Australia.

-------------

The wikepedia site was very interesting. Guess based on that alone I see your point...

The Big-Brother society in Singapore gives even a law-abiding citizen like myself the creeps. Oh, did I mention all Internet requests have to go through the government? So it's similar to communist China. That's the only language the slopes know when it comes to keeping public order. No satellite dishes permitted either, so the 'People's Action Party' can censor all news at source. The PAP literally sh1t themselves if even a single opposition MP gets elected, and do all in their power to hound him out of office.

Sure, if you have a well-paid job in a big corporation, and don't ask too many questions about human rights, you can delude yourself into thinking Singapore is some kind of clean, green paradise. But I can't think why anyone would want to spend their own money in such a sterile, regimented and expensive territory.

[JacknDanny]

"Four Floors" is like going to Villa Market but limiting yourself to the stuff they are trying to liquidate because it's nearing its sell-by date (only not exactly the same because it's 2-3 times pricier than the fresh stuff). Doesn't even compare to HK where at least they have S141.

You must be looking at different stuff on the shelves to myself

Or you must be easily pleased

I agree with Heng, except to say that the product on offer, in the main, is PAST its sell by date

[Captain Chaos]

Then the city area has the usual wine bar and bistro get-ups for the city slickers.

Thailand just doesnt compare

exactly - that's why BKK's nightlife is better IMO.

wine bars and bistros? too pretentious for me I'm afraid.

just my opinion of course.

Go on then ... what's your favourite watering hole in BKK? Mine's the Bulls Head, Suk 33/1.

[Captain Chaos]

Well apparently its been sold en-bloc so it may not be there much longer.

I still have difficulty believing that this will really happen ... the locals will not want a bunch of "ang mo's" and the US Navy (when they're in town) rushing down to Geylang to let the ferrets out for a run!!!

[Captain Chaos]

Sure, if you have a well-paid job in a big corporation, and don't ask too many questions about human rights, you can delude yourself into thinking Singapore is some kind of clean, green paradise.

I agree with you - it's no such thing - as I have consistently stated, IF I could find a well paid, long term gig in Thailand, the missus and I would be back there like a shot. However, the question posed in this thread is whether Singapore is the best overall location for Asia expats to be in - on the balance of pros and cons, I happen to believe it is

But I can't think why anyone would want to spend their own money in such a sterile, regimented and expensive territory.

Similar comment really - if you're likely to be here for the long run, then buying here makes financial sense - the arithmetic of the 'rent vs buy' equation are much more similar to somewhere like the UK than they are to Thailand (where I continue to rent and have no intention of buying)

[Loom]

... IF I could find a well paid, long term gig in Thailand, the missus and I would be back there like a shot. However, the question posed in this thread is whether Singapore is the best overall location for Asia expats to be in - on the balance of pros and cons, I happen to believe it is

There are some who have found a niche in Thailand and it's a great place to visit now and then, but I consider the country a career killer. Small economy; small market; too much corruption, too little vision; too dirty; too much crime; language barrier; poor IT/comm infrastructure; and on and on...I've lived and worked in five Asian capital cities and Singapore, by far, is the best place for raising a family in Asia.

[Prakanong]

"Four Floors" is like going to Villa Market but limiting yourself to the stuff they are trying to liquidate because it's nearing its sell-by date (only not exactly the same because it's 2-3 times pricier than the fresh stuff). Doesn't even compare to HK where at least they have S141.

You must be looking at different stuff on the shelves to myself

Or you must be easily pleased

I agree with Heng, except to say that the product on offer, in the main, is PAST its sell by date

Beleive me I am not easily pleased - far from it

Ther may be a few old hags come down from Thailand at the end of their career but in the main there is a lot of very nice PRC, Viet and Flippers about.

[Prakanong]

"That's the only language the slopes know when it comes to keeping public order."

Hmm - nice language - methinks we have some type of aussie anachronism with a chip on his shoulder here or he has been watching too many war movis recently.

[ade100]

The Big-Brother society in Singapore gives even a law-abiding citizen like myself the creeps. Oh, did I mention all Internet requests have to go through the government? So it's similar to communist China. That's the only language the slopes know when it comes to keeping public order. No satellite dishes permitted either, so the 'People's Action Party' can censor all news at source. The PAP literally sh1t themselves if even a single opposition MP gets elected, and do all in their power to hound him out of office.

Sure, if you have a well-paid job in a big corporation, and don't ask too many questions about human rights, you can delude yourself into thinking Singapore is some kind of clean, green paradise. But I can't think why anyone would want to spend their own money in such a sterile, regimented and expensive territory.

Just for the record, I have never known any websites to be blocked here in Sigapore. I spent a few hours researching all the anti-PAP material on the web - no problem accessing it. This is very different to China where even the BBC homepage is blocked.

You can say what you want here on the street. I suppose if you start publishing anti-government material you could get into trouble but frankly most of us here have better things to spend our time on.

[thedude]

So many people say that S'pore is dull, I do wonder how well they know the place, or if they have ever been. Thanks to Captain Chaos for some good posts.

There has and still is plenty of variety for night life. Clarke Quay, Roberston Quay,Emerald Hill, Boat Quay,Mohammed Sultan, St James, Orchard Towers, all those other places like B -One, Thumper, Bricks etc in the hotels, Geylang, Holland Village and lots of other places dotted around the place, Zouk, Velvet etc, etc. It easy to get to most of the places as the MRT coverage is excellent, and getting a taxi at night although more expensive than BKK, you certainly aren't going to have negotiate or have any hassle from the drivers and they always have change. PLaces stay open a dam_n sight later, I was out until 4.30 in B-one on Friday night and followed that up with another late night watching football and rugby before tucking into some decent Thai food at the end of the evening. A good range of beers available, and although more expensive far if you know where to go, there are some fairly resonable places around, ICB has been a favourite of mine since the mid 90's (great range of beers and the chicken wings and pizzas are great), alongwith a few pints of Guiness in Muddy Murphy's right next to the infamous OT, which although people have said is a dump is still a great place to have a bit of fun and have a few beers.

Anyway, I've been going to S'pore since 1990 on a regular basis, and I still love the place, and I can't think of a better place to live and work with the right employment package.

OMG do i miss ICB and yes their chicken wings are fantastic! Also miss the frozen margaritas at No.5 emerald hill. Great post Mr Toad, i haven't lived in Sg now for 5 years and your post really did bring back some good old memories.

Does anyone know if the old Mitre Hotel is still there? Anyone whose been to the Mitre knows what night life is all about in Sg.

Apart from the 4 floors, theres also another building down Orchard that operates like a little Ginza, or perhaps the Thaniya of Sg, we used to go there for really good Ramen noodles late at night and watch the wild life.

[Prakanong]

"Does anyone know if the old Mitre Hotel is still there? Anyone whose been to the Mitre knows what night life is all about in Sg."

I think they finally shut it down after a long running court battle or something.

[shochu]

Yes, bankers do spend a lot don't they - but hey easy come easy go. But many of the expats - even on generous salaries are in my opinion quite tight with their money.

Splitting the bill - generally not high spenders are they?

So what is it - they have money yet they need to split the bill - funny me thinks!

And most singaporeans are maxed out credit wise. Perhaps you should get to know some more and see the real sing - living in those small apts. Not all of the locals live a good life in sing - or haven't you seen outside of the shopping mall areas.

If you think sing is a fun and exciting place - well what more can I say. And yes some people think going to the golf course everyday is the shit! And others like to go to the same bar/pub everyday - but hey if it rings your bell...

Some people like a bit a variety and some element of the unknown in their lives and the energy of actually living - not just passing time doing the same ol same ol...

My honest opinion is if you have spent a few days there - you have seen everything and there really is no reason to go back - but unfortunatley I seem to go back - but not by choice.

And I have to disagree about the best place to live in asia - as sing is too small and quite frankly lacks variety - and the weather sucks. I find those that choose sing are generally very conservative and looking not to assimilate but to rather stay in their small circle with like minded people talking cricket and rugby...and still looking to do the boys thang even into their greying years. It is their closest thing to home.- and bangers is their boys night out!

Live wild boys!!

[Prakanong]

I bet Scochu is as boring as the people he tries to generalise about.

Certainly sounds it as he seems to know a lot about it.

Live wild

[Briggsy]

Singapore expats continue to be rank. Tops is the place to live in Asia. Anyone been there?

[steelepulse]

If you're on an expat package and are with the family, then it is a very good place as it's safe, modern, has good shopping, food etc. I could see why Singapore would rank higher than other cities in this situation.

However, if you are footing your own bill or do not have family with you, then I think there are better options.

BTW I lived there for 5 years on a non-expat package and found the place OK, but after visiting Phuket many times I decided I liked the friendly smiling Thais over the scowling aunties in Singapore.  I was working in a company that had direct dealings with the people in the places they live and believe me, they do not smile and are not happy as the Thais are.  

The place is very safe and clean, so if you are a family guy, then Sing is a great p

lace to be an expat for a 

couple of years and pad the CV.

[shochu]

What it seems to boil down to is:

For the guys that like it is - If you have the MONEY then sing is a great place.

I think any place is great if you have the MONEY.

But,

I think many expats in sing are not really doing as well as they would like to, AND

I also think sing is a boring place - PERIOD!!

prak - did I touch a sore spot? Have another beer!

[Prakanong]

No sore spot - its a great place for me at this particular time

I also get out of the place a bit as well - will have spent almost 3 weeks in Thailand, almost a week in Vietnam, 10 days in the UK (break up the journey both ways in Thailand for a night) and 10 days in Taiwan by mid-April so it does not get too claustrophobic.

As for expats not doing as well as they would like to in Singapore - I think I could say that about anywhere unless you have no ambition - I am a whore so give me more and I would go anywhere decent

[Captain Chaos]

Yes, bankers do spend a lot don't they - but hey easy come easy go. But many of the expats - even on generous salaries are in my opinion quite tight with their money.

Splitting the bill - generally not high spenders are they?

So what is it - they have money yet they need to split the bill - funny me thinks!

And most singaporeans are maxed out credit wise. Perhaps you should get to know some more and see the real sing - living in those small apts. Not all of the locals live a good life in sing - or haven't you seen outside of the shopping mall areas.

If you think sing is a fun and exciting place - well what more can I say. And yes some people think going to the golf course everyday is the shit! And others like to go to the same bar/pub everyday - but hey if it rings your bell...

Some people like a bit a variety and some element of the unknown in their lives and the energy of actually living - not just passing time doing the same ol same ol...

My honest opinion is if you have spent a few days there - you have seen everything and there really is no reason to go back - but unfortunatley I seem to go back - but not by choice.

And I have to disagree about the best place to live in asia - as sing is too small and quite frankly lacks variety - and the weather sucks. I find those that choose sing are generally very conservative and looking not to assimilate but to rather stay in their small circle with like minded people talking cricket and rugby...and still looking to do the boys thang even into their greying years. It is their closest thing to home.- and bangers is their boys night out!

Live wild boys!!

This is basically the same post as you made yesterday, just with the grammar re-arranged ... do you have anything fresh to add please?

And what is it with your apparent obsession with (1) bankers and (2) splitting the bill? I don't get it .... I'm in commodities not banking, and I split the bill when out for drinks with my friends in Singapore, just like I do when I'm out with my friends in Bangkok ... Out for business? Yes, of course that's different (like, duh ) but I feel no need to sponge off my friends, and nor do I feel the need to show what a 'big swinging one' I have by buying all their drinks ... because my friends will still be my friends regardless of whether I do that or not ... so please help me out with this one...

CC

[Captain Chaos]

If you're on an expat package and are with the family, then it is a very good place as it's safe, modern, has good shopping, food etc. I could see why Singapore would rank higher than other cities in this situation.

However, if you are footing your own bill or do not have family with you, then I think there are better options.

BTW I lived there for 5 years on a non-expat package and found the place OK, but after visiting Phuket many times I decided I liked the friendly smiling Thais over the scowling aunties in Singapore.  I was working in a company that had direct dealings with the people in the places they live and believe me, they do not smile and are not happy as the Thais are.  

The place is very safe and clean, so if you are a family guy, then Sing is a great p

lace to be an expat for a 

couple of years and pad the CV.

Generally, I think I agree with your logic on this one - I prefer the Thais to the Singaporeans too (which is handy as I married a Thai!) - but even for those who are not on expat contracts seconded from their home country, I bet 9 times out of 10 Singapore is a better place to make money than Thailand is ... more opportunities, lower tax, easier to get working visa ... and if you haven't the cash, you won't be all that welcome anywhere, including Thailand (unfortunately)

This is the reality of life in Asia!

CC (relentlessly practical as ever - sorry)

[Captain Chaos]

I think any place is great if you have the MONEY.

Eureka! Finally, I think I agree with you ... and generally the best place in SEA to allow you to make the money to let you move to Thailand on your own terms later on is ... Singapore!

[game4shame]

Then the city area has the usual wine bar and bistro get-ups for the city slickers.

Thailand just doesnt compare

exactly - that's why BKK's nightlife is better IMO.

wine bars and bistros? too pretentious for me I'm afraid.

just my opinion of course.

Go on then ... what's your favourite watering hole in BKK? Mine's the Bulls Head, Suk 33/1.

mmm, probably rainbow 1 NEP.

joke.

nah, don't really have a favourite or a local tbh. I can usually be found prowling sukhumvit when in BKK - usual sois 4/5/7/11/22 etc, had the odd ekkamai night too. sampled patpong/silom but don't know too well.

as often as I can I'll try to visit bars/clubs I've not been to before (I'm only in thailand 2 months from 12).

[kdvsn]

The key is your last phrase, 'with the right employment package'. It's the most expensive place in SE Asia so you need to be making good money to enjoy Singapore.

That's about right, but if you are making enough money to regularly drink US$10 draft beers with investment bankers then Singapore is a perfectly pleasant place to live. But for younger folk in search of adventure, Singapore is probably not be best place. Singapore's more for new expats of the "accidental tourist" variety who are relunctantly moving to Asia or for old Asia hands who have "been there, done that" and have reached a point in their lives where they'd rather have a comfortable lifestyle than move to a 3rd world country just so that they can be richer than their neighbors.

[Heng]

"Four Floors" is like going to Villa Market but limiting yourself to the stuff they are trying to liquidate because it's nearing its sell-by date (only not exactly the same because it's 2-3 times pricier than the fresh stuff). Doesn't even compare to HK where at least they have S141.

You must be looking at different stuff on the shelves to myself

Or you must be easily pleased

I agree with Heng, except to say that the product on offer, in the main, is PAST its sell by date

Beleive me I am not easily pleased - far from it

Ther may be a few old hags come down from Thailand at the end of their career but in the main there is a lot of very nice PRC, Viet and Flippers about.

There is a market for every product. There are guys who apparently think the bars at Nana, Cowboy, Patpong (AND Four Floors apparently), are full of fresh talent. Quality wise (of which age is only one component), IMO one never finds it as good as at the source, whether you're talking about gals from Shanghai, Saigon, Manila, or Prague. Now if we're talking about SG gals, sure, Singapore is the best.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Heng

[Prakanong]

"Four Floors" is like going to Villa Market but limiting yourself to the stuff they are trying to liquidate because it's nearing its sell-by date (only not exactly the same because it's 2-3 times pricier than the fresh stuff). Doesn't even compare to HK where at least they have S141.

You must be looking at different stuff on the shelves to myself

Or you must be easily pleased

I agree with Heng, except to say that the product on offer, in the main, is PAST its sell by date

Beleive me I am not easily pleased - far from it

Ther may be a few old hags come down from Thailand at the end of their career but in the main there is a lot of very nice PRC, Viet and Flippers about.

There is a market for every product. There are guys who apparently think the bars at Nana, Cowboy, Patpong (AND Four Floors apparently), are full of fresh talent. Quality wise (of which age is only one component), IMO one never finds it as good as at the source, whether you're talking about gals from Shanghai, Saigon, Manila, or Prague. Now if we're talking about SG gals, sure, Singapore is the best.

Oh I agree sourcing local is best ;-)

I have not had the pleasure yet though in Singapore - it seems like too much hassle to be honest. I really like my colleagues and girls on my course but others I have met have only been memorable in the negative in the main.

Saigon is the place I saw some rally nice girls recently but that might have been due to my fixation with Vietnam since watching the ar on TV?