Italian Embassy

[lordsux]

Hi,

Hi, I need a Shengen visa asap for my wife to travel to Italy.

All the documents are ready but the Italian embassy will not let you in unless you have an appointment which must be arranged via their 9baht per min. 'service' line.

The earliest date they gave me is the 18th April. I cant believe that we must wait 5 weeks just to hand in the application.

Anyone know of a back door out of this problem?

I've read conflicting reports stating that one must apply for the visa at the embassy of the arrival Shengen state. Anyone tried for example getting a visa from the French embassy but flying to Italy instead?

I hold a British passport and have residency in Denmark, and my wife is Thai

Edited March 13, 2008 by lordsux

[ColinChapman]

I have the exact same problem, having had Schengen visas from the German and French embassies before, my girlfriend was a bit surprised to encounter the Italian system. We are going to lose several hundred pounds worth of air tickets if she can't get her visa in less than 6 weeks so she spent some time pleading with the service line (at 9 baht plus tax per minute) but the only suggestion they have is to phone daily (at 9 baht plus tax per minute) to check for cancellations.

I asked my Italian friend who we are going to visit and he suggested that we try applying via an agency as they often have privileged access to the visa section. We have never used an agency before for UK or Schengen visas, so have no idea about which ones are good or bad.

Can anyone comment on this idea?

Can anyone recommend a good agency?

[Guemlum]

See the advertisement banner for Davies Khan at the top of this page.

Guemlum

[the scouser]

I hold a British passport and have residency in Denmark, and my wife is Thai

Are you travelling with your wife and does she have residency in Denmark, too? If the answer to both of these questions is yes, her Danish residence permit should be good enough to get her in to Italy without a visa.

Scouse.

[lordsux]

I hold a British passport and have residency in Denmark, and my wife is Thai

Are you travelling with your wife and does she have residency in Denmark, too? If the answer to both of these questions is yes, her Danish residence permit should be good enough to get her in to Italy without a visa.

Scouse.

Yes, I will be traveling with my wife and no, unfortunately my wife does not have Danish residency.

My wife explained our situation to the service line, and that it was urgent due to medical reasons but received the same reply that we should call everyday to check for cancellations.

Scammed before we even get in the door, we might as well stay in Thailand. Not a good first impression for my wife.

[the scouser]

The actual Council Directive 2004/38 in article 5(2) states:-

Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

The problem is actually getting the Italian embassy in Thailand to implement this within the limited timeframe you have. Effectively, you could spend longer arguing the toss with them than you'd have to wait for a normal visa appointment.

Alternatively, your wife can just materialise at an Schengen-country airport and she should be admitted without a visa if she can demonstrate that she is the spouse of an EEA citizen. However, the risk is that she won't even be allowed to board the aircraft in Thailand without a visa. I have had one client who booked his wife on an onward trip with no intention of using the second leg: they just got off at the first stop, in this case Schipol, and presented themselves to the Marechausee and the visaless non-EEA party was admitted without demur.

The other alternative is to go to another Schengen embassy where the queue is shorter and enter through that country.

In the long term, perhaps get your wife a Danish residence permit as this will allow her to travel visa-free around the Schengen area. The only proviso is that she has to either be accompanying you or joining you.

Scouse.

[lordsux]

Thanks for the heads up Scouse.

I have not lived in Denmark for many years so I cannot really go that route.

I tried a few years back to get a EU Family permit through the Italian embassy with my first wife, the embassy staff would not listen and said that we could only apply for a Shengen 3 month visa, which we did receive.

We have an apartment and family in Italy, and need to get there asap, I'm unable to get around unaided at the moment and have been so the last 2 weeks, this makes everything very difficult to do, so we need a quick simple solution.

Please let me know either here or by PM if you find a solution Colin.

[giruz]

OK,

I had the same experience before. I'm not sure where the 9b/min call goes but try to call directly the embassy.

Try to get hold of someone Italian not the two Thai employees who are useless and hostile (at best). If you shout and scream they will transfer your call to the guys in charge for visa and you can explain your situation.

On the other hand, you can go to the Danish embassy and get a visa for your wife without too much hassle (assuming you have a marriage certificate).

g.

[ColinChapman]

Lordsux,

We have not found a way round the problem.

My girlfriend has phoned the embassy every day, she has asked to speak to a supervisor and been refused. She has pointed out that the web-site still says: "You can book the appointment within one month from the day of your call", implying that you will never have to wait more than one month and that we have purchased about five hundred pounds' worth of air tickets.

The embassy official was quite rude and unhelpful, saying that this is the high season and it's always very busy (so why not change the web-site then?) in a tone which suggested my girlfriend was an idiot for not knowing this and also saying that "we didn't tell you to buy any air tickets". I can imagine your chances of getting a visa if you turned up without a return flight ticket. Last year at the French embassy they were not even satisfied with seeing our return tickets from the UK to France, they also insisted on seeing our return ticket from Bangkok to London (and my girlfriend already had her UK visa in her passport).

We have also phoned about ten agencies, none of whom could help. One man did say he could get the visa sooner and he would only charge us THB20,000, but he had no money in his phone so could we call him back. We decided to give that offer a miss.

We have now bowed to the inevitable and moved our entire trip back by a week, so that my girlfriend has time to attend her appointment and we have eight days afterwards for them to return her passport. They told us it would take five to six days, so we hope this is long enough.

Sorry not to have any better news. Have you made any progress?

[lordsux]

Sorry m8, no progress here either,

I've been unable to walk the last 4 weeks, I was in a wheelchair the first couple of weeks but gave up on that, so the last 2 weeks I havn't been out the door. Need to get out of BKK quick, so will probably drop Italy altogether.

Good luck

[goatfarmer]

The situation is the same at the French and German embassies. The next available appointment slots are five weeks away. It is a scandal. We are told that the appointment system has been implemented in the name of efficiency. The opposite is the case. There is nothing efficient about waiting five weeks for an appointment to make an application. Travel plans need to be made in advance. Tickets need to be purchased. We should be complaining to the highest possible level of authority responsible for this irresponsible development.

[ColinChapman]

Yes, but the only way you can complain is if you never intend to apply for another visa, otherwise I can imagine how successful you will be with subsequent applications!

My main complaint with the Italian embassy is that the web-site still says: "You can book the appointment within one month from the day of your call", implying that you will never have to wait more than one month. If you have to apply two or three months in advance, the web-site should advise you of this. We could quite easily have applied in January, but there is no indication that this is necessary. It's not so much the hoops they make you jump through as the failure to notify you about the hoops that I object to.

Kudos to the British emnbassy and VFS, they might be more expensive, but their efficiency and the volume and clarity of information on the web-site is excellent.

[Lite Beer]

Kudos to the British emnbassy and VFS, they might be more expensive, but their efficiency and the volume and clarity of information on the web-site is excellent.

Glad you think so their web site and their service is a joke.

[goatfarmer]

Yes, but the only way you can complain is if you never intend to apply for another visa, otherwise I can imagine how successful you will be with subsequent applications!

You have a point. One would have to be careful in making complaints. It would be counterproductive to complain to a petty official at the front desk who might, albeit in abuse of power, put some black mark against an applicant's name. On the other hand, the European Union prides itself as being among the world's champions of procedural fairness and human rights. A well placed complaint, based on EU law, respectfully directed to the right level of authority is unlikely to result in retribution. Something along the following lines might have an effect:

Article 41 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union provides:

"Every person has the right to have his affairs handled impartially... and within a reasonable time by the institutions, agencies, bodies and offices of the Union."

That provision is wide enough to include non-citizens of the EU applying for visas at the offices of embassies of the Union. The question is: would it be reasonable to require applicants to wait for a month or more for the opportunity to submit a visa application? If the practice of every other country in the world is to be considered as a standard, the answer is obviously "No!".

What if an EU citizen's family member dies in the EU. Would it be fair to exclude the spouse of that citizen from attending the funeral on the basis that she must apply for an appointment to submit a visa six weeks or two months before travelling? Obviously "no".

What if I decide today, March 23rd, that I want to take my wife to Milan on April 24th to see Giuseppe Verdi's "Macbeth" at La Scala? Is it reasonable to say, "sorry, we can only give you an appointment to apply for a visa on the morning of the 24th"?

The procedure is so obviously unreasonable and unfair that I imagine there is, at this moment, some official scratching his head and wondering how to back track to a reasonable system while saving face. If not, it is incumbent on those of us who are citizens of the EU to alert the authorities at some suitably high level of the injustice that the new system causes. We could, for example refer the matter to the Ombudsmen under Article 44 or petition the European Parliament under Article 45 of the Charter. It is our right. We shouldn't be shy to use it.

The 9 baht per minute call center is another abomination. But that can wait.

[lordsux]

Instead of starting a new thread I will continue here.

Today, after almost 6 weeks waiting for her appointment to deliver her Shengen Visa application my wife went to the Italian Consulate.

All papers were in order and she was told to return in about 10 days with receipt of payment of the reserved flights. Great, perfect, couldn't be better after the crap we have been through the last couple of months.

A couple of hours later the consulate call and tells my wife that she must go for an interview next week. She wasn't told to bring any evidence of our relationship or any other documents for the interview.

The only reason I can think of is that about 3 years ago I married my now x-wife and applied for a Shengen Visa via the Italian Consulate here in Bangkok and that has put a red flag on this application.

Anyone experienced anything similar when applying for a Shengen Visa for ones wife?

[goatfarmer]

Unlikely that you have been blacklisted for that reason. Unless there is more to the story.

Your case is amazing. The delay that you are suffering is inordinate. Six weeks for an appointment. Ten days for the visa. I wouldn't stand for it.

Edited April 20, 2008 by goatfarmer

[lordsux]

Unlikely that you have been blacklisted for that reason. Unless there is more to the story.

Your case is amazing. The delay that you are suffering is inordinate. Six weeks for an appointment. Ten days for the visa. I wouldn't stand for it.

There is not a lot we can do, we could lodge a complaint higher up but that will not get us to Italy sooner. My ex-wife did not overstay her visa, in fact we returned to Thailand 1 month earlier than planned.

I hold a British Passport so therefor my wife should be eligible for an EU family permit. I tried going that route with the Consulate last time but we were told that we could not apply for the EU permit.

At least we have a contact # inside the Consulate now, we will call them tomorrow and try and find out whats going on. I must pay for the flights asap or we lose our reservations. We were hoping to be in Italy for my fathers 60th birthday....that prospect seems pretty bleak now.

On a good note: The last week I have gained some strength back in my leg and I'm actually able to walk a few steps with the help of a walking stick. So, it's not all bad news.

[lordsux]

An update on this farce:

Timeline:

08-03-2008 Call the consulate 'service' line and are told that the earliest appointment to present the application would be the 18th April

18-04-2008 Application is presented and accepted and my wife was told to return on the 28th with proof of paid air tickets.

18-04-2008 Consulate phones 2 hours from after receiving the application and tells my wife that she must go to the consulate on the 24th, no reason given. My wife calls them again and asks if she should bring any documents or such. "No, Just bring yourself", was the reply.

21-04-2008 My wife calls again informing the Consulate that the travel agent will no longer hold our tickets. My wife asked once again if she should bring anything on the 24th, again the reply was, "No".

24-04-2008 One more call just to check that nothing should be brought to the embassy that day.

24-04-2008 In the afternoon my wife arrives for her 1400 appointment, at 15:15 her turn arrives.(so much for the appointment system reducing the queues) The clerk informs her that the certified translation of our marriage certificate is not in the application. 'This is where I own up and accept this mistake But why we have to wait yet another 6 days to be told this, is beyond me. My wife is told to come back on the 28th April (today) with the translation. She was told that she could give it to the front desk and they would call later this day and inform us when or if my wife would get the visa . Of course, front desk would not accept the document at 1300 so my wife had to wait another hour, only to be told that she must call tomorrow to find out if she gets the visa or not.

50 days from our first step to obtaining this Shengen Permit, and we still don't know if it will be issued.

Lets see what tomorrow brings.

Wednesday we must move out of our apartment, I still can't walk unaided, we have lost our flight reservations, spent almost all our available cash while waiting for the Consulate and still we are being kept in a state of limbo by the Italian Consulate.

So much for the 'dolce vita

[ColinChapman]

My wife went for her application appointment last Monday and said that the lady she spoke to was very pleasant and polite, unlike the one who answers the phone. She asked her a few questions and told her to return today. She has just been and collected her visa.

The web-site still says that "You can book the appointment within one month from the day of your call".

Although it is not mentioned in the visa fees section of the web-site, thanks to reading Thai visa I told her to ask if she had to pay and she didn't. Wish I'd known about that last year when we went to France!

What is a "certified translation" of a marriage certificate? My wife only took the original and an ordinary photocopy. They checked the original and returned it to her immediately and retained the copy to submit with the application.

I hope it all works out for you in the end and you recover fully.

[lordsux]

Congrats on the visa Colin. Will post any progress tomorrow.

[lordsux]

Called the Consulate today and can pick up the visa on Friday.

I agree that the staff at the consulate were polite and courteous throughout the whole process and have some sympathy for them having to deal with such an archaic system on a daily basis.

The EU parliament should introduce a law stating the maximum amount of days to obtain a visa.

Now to try and find some tickets

[ColinChapman]

Congratulations.

Feel you are somewhat optimistic in expecting the European Parliament to do something useful to make life simpler!

[lordsux]

Where would be all be without hope?

[gtaswan]

Amazing