Full Time Teach. Job In Chiang Mai 20k Per Month! How Stupid Do They Think We Are?

[PeaceBlondie]

So, I thought very seriously about coming out of retirement and getting a full-time teaching job in the Chiang Mai metro area. So, a friend mentioned where they were hiring. So, I applied at a big private school, not some fly-by-night language school or some wayward village school out in the sticks. Huge modern plant, and a professional interviewer, who asks me after I have been filling out forms, taking a test, and waiting about an hour: "Did you know that we only pay our full time staff 20,000 baht per month?" I replied, "No, and pardon me for wasting your time."

This was a special EP, and some teachers teach Maths, Compters, etc. The interviewer made no mention of higher salaries for those starting out teaching such advanced subjects. Indeed, their current job on ajarn database does not offer the slightest hope of a higher starting wage.

They tried to make a big deal that you only teach four days per week, but that is five classes every day. I am not going to get out of bed to teach five classes (and prep time, and administrative bullshit) for a thousand baht per day.

Luckily, I do not need one baht of salary. But nobody should work in Thailand, teaching English full time, if they are reasonably well qualified. How desperate must teachers be to try to support themselves long term for that wage?

Edited March 15, 2008 by PeaceBlondie
Correct typo

[TEFLMike]

Hi,

Surely then, the Government schools are paying more at the moment?

[nonthaburial]

realising on these forums just how desperate some people are, I would imagine that quite a few would be interested. You stated that you yourself do not need to work but many people do require the income

[Krupnik]

So, I thought very seriously about coming out of retirement and getting a full-time teaching job in the Chiang Mai metro area. So, a friend mentioned where they were hiring. So, I applied at a big private school, not some fly-by-night language school or some wayward village school out in the sticks. Huge modern plant, and a professional interviewer, who asks me after I have been filling out forms, taking a test, and waiting about an hour: "Did you know that we only pay our full time staff 20,000 baht per month?" I replied, "No, and pardon me for wasting your time."

This was a special EP, and some teachers teach Maths, Compters, etc. The interviewer made no mention of higher salaries for those starting out teaching such advanced subjects. Indeed, their current job on ajarn database does not offer the slightest ho[e of a higher starting wage.

They tried to make a big deal that you only teach four days per week, but that is five classes every day. I am not going to get out of bed to teach five classes (and prep time, and administrative bullshit) for a thousand baht per day.

Luckily, I do not need one baht of salary. But nobody should work in Thailand, teaching English full time, if they are reasonably well qualified. How desperate must teachers be to try to support themselves long term for that wage?

That is ludicrous. I'm glad you told them where to stick it! Which one was it? There are loads of places hiring for next year at the moment I believe. At reasonable salaries. PM me if you want I could send you the info I know of...

[Richie1971]

If you've no experience and have just finished your CELTA, TEFL whatever with no teaching experience it might be OK - admittedly the wages are a pittance but is'nt 20k bht 1 month equivalent to 30k bht one month in BKK?

I've been in Thailand for 3 years and completed my CELTA 2 years ago (been working in sales since) and if someone had asked me for interview for this job 2 months ago I would have considered it. (For experience)(I am lucky enough to have some savings)

As it panned out i have been offered a job in one of the better schools in Vietnam for $1700 per month with all visas,flights, healthcare paid for. (They even sorted a visa for my Thai g/f)

Alot of schools in Thailand come across as Mickey mouse outfits and with this T/L, culture test in conjunction with crap wages it just is'nt worth the effort in my view.

Will the last Teachers to leave Thailand please turn the light out.

[Issangeorge]

It has been my experience that the upcountry private schools pay very little money. When I first started looking for a job I was offered 12,000 baht a month from one of these schools, they mostly seem to range between 15,000 to 25,000. Most of the government schools seem to pay 25,000 to 35,000 with most of them at 30,000. This is still really only volunteer wages, especially when you figure they are mostly only for 8 months a year or 20,000 average per month. I am lucky I have a pension so don't need the money. I am teaching now because I really enjoy it, but I'll be damned if I am going to work for less than 30,000 a month, unless they pay me 12 months a year and still give me 4 months holidays a year. Issangeorge.

[garro]

It is bad PB. Mind you there are those who would feel that a low paying job is a way into the profession. Perhaps they hope to earn more in their after-hours teaching. While I was recently applying for jobs some did mention that while their pay wasn't that great there would be plenty of privates. One guy told me he was earning 50k every month from his privates -almost twice as much as his legit job.

BTW PB, that nursing gig got back to me, but unfortunately I'd already taken something else.

[mbkudu]

Never measure how well or badly paid a job is by a monthly salary; it's the the number of hours put in that matters. A job paying 20,000 a month isn't too bad if you have to work 10 hours a week. 20,000 a month for full time?

Edited March 14, 2008 by mbkudu

[PeaceBlondie]

Never measure how well or badly paid a job is by a monthly salary; it's the the number of hours put in that matters. A job paying 20,000 a month isn't too bad if you have to work 10 hours a week. 20,000 a month for full time?

No, 20,000 is full time, and the teaching load is 20 hours per week, delivered in four exhausting days (I did not see an air conditioner, even in the boss's office). I told the interviewer that teachers have to pay bills seven days per week. What could you do on your day off during the week?

I am an old salary man who paid my bills for housing and transport by the month. Even 25K does not meet overall expenses in Chiang Mai, and we retirees should not be settling for less than 30K.

I have a friend who earns 30K, net, in private lessons part time, in CMai.

[mbkudu]

Never measure how well or badly paid a job is by a monthly salary; it's the the number of hours put in that matters. A job paying 20,000 a month isn't too bad if you have to work 10 hours a week. 20,000 a month for full time?

No, 20,000 is full time, and the teaching load is 20 hours per week, delivered in four exhausting days (I did not see an air conditioner, even in the boss's office). I told the interviewer that teachers have to pay bills seven days per week. What could you do on your day off during the week?

Precisely my point. After doing the math for the above, 250 baht an hour doesn't sound too good. That is an early 1990s wage. This is the year 2008 I think.

[PeaceBlondie]

Keep in mind that the interview was cut short after a ridiculous wage offer. I still do not know if they hoard the chalk or markers like precious metals, or if the boss is as crazy as a box of frogs, if they know how to convert an O visa to a B visa, if they do police checks, if they require the Thai Culture Test, if they know how to get work permits in less than three months, if the coworkers are sane, etc. I hear about farang teaching English at lots of other schools in the area, but it usually took them many years to work their way to a decent situation. I did my apprenticeship already, and do not intend to do two more. But I love to teach, I know I am not half bad at it, and I would really like to keep busy during the days, rather than logging onto ThaiVisa constantly.

[culicine]

Slowly but surely, Philipinos (for better or worse) are becoming more accepted for teaching english, especially in BKK. Most of the enrolees on the culture course are from the Philippines. Many also have BEd's. They wil also work for 20K or less a month. I guess they need the job and will work for pretty much anything, given the number of them in the country. Check out the jobs page on the other website. Many more jobs advertised now for less than 20-30K per month. To the extent that our jobs are threaened will largely depend on acceptance by parents of them teaching their kids english. In future there is likely to be a lage disparity in salaries between different schools because of this. To be honest, a westerner with a teaching qualification (and hence new TL) should be able to command at least 50-60K a month, at least in BKK. I doubt that will happen though if schools can possibly save a few baht.

Anyway 20K in CM?? Ask what they will pay for the other two weeks of the month:)

[PeaceBlondie]

Please, somebody, explain how the parents distinguish between

1. A Thai teacher of English. Non-native, not well trained to teach English language and its culture.

2. A Filipino teacher. Non-native, not well trained to teach English language and its culture.

3. A farang who is a native speaker, has a BA, years of teaching English in Thailand, not a criminal or sexpat.

How well can your average Thai or Filipino teacher explain why dawn and dusk come slowly in the northern temperate zones, the four seasons, buffalo that are bison, indigenous peoples, innocent until proven guilty, racial prejudice, the Restoration (or the Renaissance and the Reformation), American politics, typical British food, slavery, the Nazi Holocaust, etc.? Those elements are taken for granted in British and American literature.

Thais and Filipinos can teach grammar. But can they teach content?

Or (besides the parents who only want white skinned farangs in front of their children), do Thai parents and school officials even want the students to learn content?

[tamsom]

Teaching in Chiang Mai is a lifestyle choice. It is tiresome for people to say that living there is so much cheaper than in Krung Thep. Do a supermarket style check list, and what do you have? I work at a third tier international school in Krung Thep that has employed many Tagalogs or Pinoys, if you will. They rule the kindergarten ( only 3 native speakers) for some 12 classes. All salaries for them are between 12000 and 20000 baht. All teachers should stand up like peace blondie did and never accept a race to the bottom.

[Loaded]

I think I know the school PB's talking about. Unfortunately, the school wants to reduce staff turnover, but paying 20K won't do it. They don't want to understand 20 K isn't acceptable

[PeaceBlondie]

Loaded, you may know which school, but we will not name or shame them here. The interviewer blamed the school board for setting salaries that low, to which I replied, "Then I will not insult them" and walked out. Now I have noticed various schools that pay 26.7K and above. Surely, being a for-profit business, they should see their ad alongside the competition!

[mbkudu]

This is an ad in today's Bangkok Post. Make of it what you will.

'C_____ M__ U_________, English Dept. Full-Time Native English Instructor

MA in one of the following: TESL/EFL/Literature/Applied Linguistics/

Creative Writing/Communications

Preferably not over 55

Base salary Baht 19,000/mo+ Baht 8,000/mo. living allowance'

Even if I was qualified for it, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning for that much money.

Edited March 15, 2008 by mbkudu

[PeaceBlondie]

Of course, that is the standard package. I was sent a PM today saying that the same schools (unis and rajabats) pay the same for someone with a BA and a couple of years experience. I just spent the evening with a mate who wishes he had taken that gig instead of the one he has been stuck at for the last three years.

[culicine]

Justout of interest, and fort hose that are qualified, does anyone know what do the International Schools in CM pay? I guess, less than an equivalent school in BKK, but might be a nice lifestyle change. The school in CM named after a famous Thai looks like a resort! Nice work, if you can get it:)

[PeaceBlondie]

Here you go, culicine, the APIS handbook: http://www.apis.ac.th/form/APIS%20Handbook...0Applicants.pdf

Go to page 18 for the salary, which appears to be 60K baht per month. The school is way out on Samoeng Road, in the mountains west of the city. Some of the teachers charge 350 baht per hour for evening private lessons. A friend of mine makes around 30K per month after school, doing privates.

I do not think the other schools, such as Prem and CMIS and Grace, publish their salaries.

///added: the salary at Grace does not exist. You teach by grace, no salary. Basically, the teachers are Christian missionaries.

[sibeymai]

A friend of mine makes around 30K per month after school, doing privates.

Plenty of girls in Bangkok earning 30K+ per month, also doing privates.

[BlackArtemis]

PB, the Gov't schools here seem to pay 20-24k and only have 15hr (teaching hours) per week. 2+ months of paid vacation is pretty decent as well. I have personally found it comfortable to find a Gov't school and supplement income with private tutoring.

Btw the parents distinguish by "Oooooh he/she is white, they must know the best!"

Also we have to realize that we all have different views on acceptable or too little and just right

[PeaceBlondie]

PB, the Gov't schools here seem to pay 20-24k and only have 15hr (teaching hours) per week. 2+ months of paid vacation is pretty decent as well. I have personally found it comfortable to find a Gov't school and supplement income with private tutoring.

Btw the parents distinguish by "Oooooh he/she is white, they must know the best!"

Also we have to realize that we all have different views on acceptable or too little and just right

Yes, there are retirees or people who do not need the money, who can work for 20K or less. I respect their desires to keep wages low. I think 20K is absurd. I know guys who have been making 25K (sometimes only 11 months each year) for several years. Then again, maybe there is something wrong with them.

But maybe you're correct that many govt. schools here only pay 20 to 24K. I think many other schools are paying more, but then you never really know all the facts. I am mainly talking about teachers who are native speakers (US, UK, Oz, Canadian, NZ, Irish passports), a real bachelor's degree, a couple years of experience in TEFL, qualified to teach M4 to uni English classes. I have gotten several PM's that talk of 28K and above at various schools.

[Ijustwannateach]

I have not issued any warnings for it (this time), but I would like to remind several of our members of this Posting Guideline:

It is inflammatory to refer to teachers in general or groups of teachers (by age, nationality, ethnicity, age, sexual preference, religion, or gender) in negative terms.

It is my understanding that persons who are nationals of the Philippines find the following labels acceptable:

Philipinos

Filipinos (or Filipinas, as appropriate)

Tagalogs (unless they are Visayans or members of another language group)

Pinoys

Let's not lower the tone here, please.

[BlackArtemis]

PB: I know of a few schools starting at 30k/month and with experience 35k/month, these being the private schools across the river. I have no desire to teach M1-6 nor do I want to be a roamer, so I chose the lower pay (but less hours and more vacation) even though i qualify with the real BA and few years of teaching experience. I hope you find a school that makes you happy.

[PeaceBlondie]

I think we can name schools when we do not shame them. By the private schools across the river, I guess you mean Dara, Prince Royal, the Catholic girls' schools, etc. Maybe Wichai Wittayai?

For those who have not been reading the Chiang Mai forum or checking your expenses, benzene is now 34 baht per liter, only barons and dukes can afford real butter, and life in Chiang Mai is not cheap. Still cheaper than BKK or Honolulu, without salaries to match.

[culicine]

Here you go, culicine, the APIS handbook: http://www.apis.ac.th/form/APIS%20Handbook...0Applicants.pdf

Go to page 18 for the salary, which appears to be 60K baht per month. The school is way out on Samoeng Road, in the mountains west of the city. Some of the teachers charge 350 baht per hour for evening private lessons. A friend of mine makes around 30K per month after school, doing privates.

I do not think the other schools, such as Prem and CMIS and Grace, publish their salaries.

///added: the salary at Grace does not exist. You teach by grace, no salary. Basically, the teachers are Christian missionaries.

Hi PB, Thanks for that though I've seen that page before. It looks like a sample for the tax cacculation though. It could well be the salary. Would 60K + 40K for the wife per month be a reasonable income up there? It's roughly what we earn in BKK already though..

[PeaceBlondie]

Here you go, culicine, the APIS handbook: http://www.apis.ac.th/form/APIS%20Handbook...0Applicants.pdf

Go to page 18 for the salary, which appears to be 60K baht per month.

Hi PB, Thanks for that though I've seen that page before. It looks like a sample for the tax calculation though. It could well be the salary. Would 60K + 40K for the wife per month be a reasonable income up there? It's roughly what we earn in BKK already though..

You may be right. I think 60K is too low for international school. It could be much higher.

You ask if 60K for you, and 40K for the wife, would be reasonable income here. Heck, that is considered the income of a baron or a duke here, but I can personally assure you it is not. We had a mile-long debate in the CMai forum whether 40K was a baron's income, and I know an expat who has spent that much just for sex in one month.

[Scott]

I have to voice some disagreement about the Filipinos. We have quite a few working at our school--none teach English, except at the KG1 and KG2 level--by KG 3, it's white faces.

The Filipinos are really the backbone of the school. Most are bright, dedicated and very good workers. Our G. 11 - 12 math teacher can run circles around either his Thai or Farang counterparts. Our Social studies teacher is amazing, listening to her explain the Holocaust, World Wars and current trends in terrorism is both balanced and insightful. She stimulates thought by usually bringing Thailand into the equation. Of course, many of these teachers are teaching subjects in which they have a degree and are licensed teachers in their own country.

A lot of the Farang teachers we have are lazy and arrogant. They treat the school and the students like it was a learning factory. They will not go one inch over what is demanded of them and for which they will receive some type of punishment. This is certainly not all of them by any stretch, but enough to make me feel ashamed to be associated with them.

As far as the salary goes, PB, I am with you on that subject if you can afford not to work. Unfortunately, a lot of folks have given up their life in a western country and have to take what they can get and Thailand takes advantage of this situation.

I occasionally interview people like yourself, who are worth much more and occasionally our director will agree and pay them more--not what they are worth, but more.

Best of luck to you and don't settle for less.

[femi fan]

Well, i've been teaching english for 16 years in thailand. celta, delta, masters all done in this time. Now teacher training in chiang mai, and earning a dinosaur wage, often surrounded by dinosaur thinking.

It's taken me three years to get used to this level of pay. I accept it because i have to if i want to live in chiang mai. Way back in 1995 my monthly salary was 45,000 in bkk, and when i started this job, in 2004, i went tumbling down to 30 grand a month.

The money offered all teachers in chiang mai is appalling. Disgraceful. In fact the same can be said of thailand these days. After the boom time of the mid-90s, salaries have effectively gone backwards, as has the teaching of english in this country, as has the education in general.

Chiang mai has three major sources of income, the handicrafts, the rice and fruit, and tourism. There must be tonnes of money running around this town, yet if you look at the private language schools here charging next to nothing to 'learn' english, you wonder where the parents went wrong.

No teacher in their right mind will work in chiang mai to make any kind of money. I just happen to want to live in chiang mai, and can somehow get away with the salary.

How you're going to change the general salaries i don't know.

Incidentally, i have it on good authority that the british council in this town is the worst paying branch in the world.