Its Not About Culture, Its About Being Human

[uptou]

I'm not sure the OP did himself any favours by putting the statements-Its about being human,& bashing the guy to near death,together in the same post ,but i find it hard to judge him negatively based on his side of the story.

[way2muchcoffee]

It does beg the question: why would any sensible westerner, myself included, even consider raising a child in Thailand if these are typical of the values espoused by the citizenry?

Of course there are many positive aspects to Thai culture that must be considered. And without a doubt, there are many aspects of my own culture that I don't agree with as well.

This a a disturbing thread. I just explained the situation to my wife (Thai). She immediately, and quite angrily, forbade me to ever get involved in any situation of this type.

Edited March 20, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[garro]

I remember about six years ago I was on holiday on one of the Islands. A couple of Thai guys came into the club where we were and hit this westerner over the head with a breeze-block. I was horrified. The guys just ran away. I trained as a trauma nurse and so knew what to do at the scene. I got the bloke to the hospital and stayed with him most of the night. He kept on going on about his two Thai friends were looking for him. Near morning these two kids turned up - maybe about ten years old. They were all over him. It made me sick. I really wished that I hadn't helped that guy. Things aren't always how they seem in Thailand.

[ThaiWanderer68]

Interesting story taxexile. So what happened next? Did you go and apologise?

[ThaiWanderer68]

Personally I still have a conscience, and if I think I can do something about a situation I will. Not enough people in my view are prepared to stand up and be counted.

I'd recommend a read of "The Stoppable Rise of Arturo Ui" to many people in Thailand. That's the English translation of Berthold Brechts short work. It's about a thug called Arturo Ui who rises to power, and a parody of how Hitler rose to power. A key point was it was "stoppable" not "unstoppable". How many millions suffered on that one because people carried on walking... Where do you draw the line?

Those who automatically walk away as a matter of practice in my view are selfish and spineless. You should as a minimum be thinking what you could do to help.

One of the problems in Thailand is people are too selfish and spineless to step in if they see something wrong. Those doing wrong often know that, so it never gets any better.

[taxexile]

Did you go and apologise?

thankfully i didnt have to go to his house , but shortly afterwards as i was walking into the soi he was walking towards me , i couldnt avoid him.

against my better judgement i apologised for interfering in his affairs , i suppose for thailand it was the right thing to do , but it hurt my pride to apologise to someone like that.

i suppose you have to decide if you are prepared to get involved in a fight , that could turn very nasty , for the sake of someone you have never seen before , to risk a serious beating or worse for that ?? i dont think so.

but when you see someone getting attacked , in the heat of the moment its hard to turn a blind eye.

there have been cases in the uk lately where "have a go heroes" as they are called , have got themselves kicked to death ,sometimes in front of their families , for interfering , the police advice there is dont get involved.

as for the op , i can understand him going in , but his "new york hardcase" mouth makes it hard to take him seriously i'm afraid.

[favre360]

I remember about six years ago I was on holiday on one of the Islands. A couple of Thai guys came into the club where we were and hit this westerner over the head with a breeze-block. I was horrified. The guys just ran away. I trained as a trauma nurse and so knew what to do at the scene. I got the bloke to the hospital and stayed with him most of the night. He kept on going on about his two Thai friends were looking for him. Near morning these two kids turned up - maybe about ten years old. They were all over him. It made me sick. I really wished that I hadn't helped that guy. Things aren't always how they seem in Thailand.

garro what the hel_l does that have to do with helping a defenseless woman who was obviously just punched by her b/f or husband?

[garro]

The point is that it's sometimes wise to try and keep your head and not just let emotions take over.

[favre360]

quote]

his "new york hardcase" mouth makes it hard to take him seriously i'm afraid.

how did you know im from NY lol?

[taxexile]

how did you know im from NY lol?

i remember you from another thread where you complained that you couldnt find condoms big enough for you , whether that was indeed fact or just wishful thinking , such bravado could only come from a new yorker.

[mellow1]

Well favre 360, you can't say you haven't learned anything. The next time you see someone beating another person into a coma, just ignore it, especially if its a Farang. Mind your own business and enjoy the spectacle.

Providing it's not you getting the kicking I guess.

Absolutely, but that's what they preach here it seems.

[soundman]

If one good thing comes out of this thread, I hope it is this.

For the OP's sake and other readers:

It is not advisable to get into physical or other type's of confrontations in Thailand unless one has a very clear picture of the lay of the land. They very often become quite deadly. A couple of months ago, a couple of teenagers were having an argument in front of our 7/11. One walks off, gets a gun out of his bike, comes back, blows the other guy away & calmly sat down waiting for the police to arrive. The argument was over a spilled bottle of beer or something stupid like that.

Sure enough, one occasionally comes upon disturbing situations in Thailand, or anywhere for that matter.

Lets set up a different scenario:

If you came accross some punk high on meth with a gun or blade in his pocket, in a back alley of NY or London or Melbourne, beating the crap out of a girl, with his mates standing around watching, would you automatically jump in?

Kudo's to OP for giving a shit about the girl. But seriously, if you are going to jump in, make sure you know what you are getting into.

Soundman.

[favre360]

how did you know im from NY lol?

i remember you from another thread where you complained that you couldnt find condoms big enough for you , whether that was indeed fact or just wishful thinking , such bravado could only come from a new yorker.

haha i like you man

[jdinasia]

I remember about six years ago I was on holiday on one of the Islands. A couple of Thai guys came into the club where we were and hit this westerner over the head with a breeze-block. I was horrified. The guys just ran away. I trained as a trauma nurse and so knew what to do at the scene. I got the bloke to the hospital and stayed with him most of the night. He kept on going on about his two Thai friends were looking for him. Near morning these two kids turned up - maybe about ten years old. They were all over him. It made me sick. I really wished that I hadn't helped that guy. Things aren't always how they seem in Thailand.

garro what the hel_l does that have to do with helping a defenseless woman who was obviously just punched by her b/f or husband?

or pimp . or rival drug dealer ... or or or the fact is you just don't know. again Rambo .. this aint the USA

[favre360]

If one good thing comes out of this thread, I hope it is this.

For the OP's sake and other readers:

It is not advisable to get into physical or other type's of confrontations in Thailand unless one has a very clear picture of the lay of the land. They very often become quite deadly. A couple of months ago, a couple of teenagers were having an argument in front of our 7/11. One walks off, gets a gun out of his bike, comes back, blows the other guy away & calmly sat down waiting for the police to arrive. The argument was over a spilled bottle of beer or something stupid like that.

Sure enough, one occasionally comes upon disturbing situations in Thailand, or anywhere for that matter.

Lets set up a different scenario:

If you came accross some punk high on meth with a gun or blade in his pocket, in a back alley of NY or London or Melbourne, beating the crap out of a girl, with his mates standing around watching, would you automatically jump in?

Kudo's to OP for giving a shit about the girl. But seriously, if you are going to jump in, make sure you know what you are getting into.

Soundman.

Fair enough soundman and I understand what your saying but if you did come acroos something like that in farang land (the guys beating the girl) you would probably just stand around the corner, call the police, and hope for the best. Theres always something you can do to help someone in trouble. To be honest I had no idea Thai's behaved like this.

[mellow1]

years ago , i heard a commotion outside my in laws shophouse in bangkok , i looked out of the window and in the street was a large thai man with a 2x4 plank of wood beating the sh1t out of a young woman who was already prone on the ground.

i got the red mist and went hurtling down the stairs and tried to rush out into the street , my inlaws were quickly closing the doors so as not to witness the goings on out there , i rushed through and yelled at the man to stop , self preservation stopped me from attacking him , he was bigger and uglier than me.

he looked up and hurled the piece of wood at me , the woman quickly scurried and then ran off bleeding.

my father in law rushed out , apologised and waied the man and dragged me back into the house.

"but he was hitting a woman , he could of killed her" i said.

over the next hour it was explained to me that that man was the "police approved" unofficial enforcer for our soi , he sold the drugs , ran the card games , and decided who came into the soi and who didnt. he always carried a gun and if the police wanted anything done , he would do it. he often took the law into his own hands and the police never touched him , the woman that he was hitting had come uninvited into his territory to sell ya ba and when she returned after one warning , he set upon her with the plank. because of him , there hadnt been a robbery in the soi for years

i was told that i would have to , after a meeting between my mother in law and him ,go to his house , with a bottle of fine whisky as a gift and apologise for making him lose face in the street by yelling at him. if he wouldnt accept that then i would have to leave the house and not come back , there would be nothing they could do to protect me.

in the end they explained to him that i was just another idealistic foreigner with no idea of how life is actually lived here and he told them i would not be hurt or have to leave. had i not been associated with that soi , ie. just a passer by , things would have been different though.

my father in law , a man who would give his life if anyone threatened a family member , told me to "never , but never get involved in anything in this country that is not your business , they will kill you as easy as they kill mosquitos , and nobody will help you. this is thailand and as a foreigner you will die in the gutter. when you see something , just close your eyes and cross the road , this is not england or france where things are fair , only get involved on the street if you are prepared to pay a heavy price."

thats my one and only experience of 'having a go'

make of it what you will

And I thought there was no law and order . Silly me.

[burman]

JD, you made two posts on this subject and both times suggested the woman may have been a prostitute. Close to adding"and she probably deserved it" aren't you?"

The man stepped in with no thought of his own safety to stop a man attacking a woman. Foolish in any country maybe. Brave in any country also.

[hanibal7]

I admire you for what you did,but it is not the way,maybe the right way but not the way.In this situation you are not talking about a decent thai guy,you are talking about horrible scumbag who hits women.this creature deserves a good beating the thai way( 1 on against many) but if the police got involved the fine would be about 400 baht i would assume.

You have got to accept that the thai way is very cowardly,using guns knives and outnumbering the person who is being attacked,just like soi dogs.there is no thought about human life and your body will be like a chicken or pig ready to slaughter without a trace of guilt.

do not interfere with these people,they will attack you without any thoughts.

[soundman]

The man stepped in with no thought of his own safety to stop a man attacking a woman. Foolish in any country maybe. Brave in any country also.

Maybe brave but quite often deadly for Thai's and farang alike in Thailand.

[burman]

^ Hence the foolish comment first.

[jdinasia]

JD, you made two posts on this subject and both times suggested the woman may have been a prostitute. Close to adding"and she probably deserved it" aren't you?"

The man stepped in with no thought of his own safety to stop a man attacking a woman. Foolish in any country maybe. Brave in any country also.

No .. I pointed out that the guy had absolutely NO CLUE. By Thai standards prevalent in Pattaya, she may have deserved it. I have no idea! We are completely unaware of the events leading to any of this except some drunk farang stepped into a situation totally beyond his experience. Fortunately at least HE escaped with his life intact. Who knows what happened to the woman later? Did she get blamed for the broken window in the vehicle? Was she beaten more and worse due to Rambo's interference? We don't know. We never will.

[grapetable]

Culture is never an excuse to 'turn the other cheek'. This man risked his life to help another human in need..........very admirable indeed! If a friend of mine was in a similar position as her I would hope someone like him was close by. SBK....can i ask you wouldnt you hope someone like him was nearby if you were king hit like her and in further danger?

What else bothers me about this is the opportunistic nature of Thai men to attack farangs at any opportunity, it is said of so much on this forum..........do they hate us so much? and why ?

[sbk]

Actually, I just asked why punching the guy was his first reaction when mine would have been to help the woman who looked like she had a very serious, perhaps life threatening injury. He answered, I accept the answer. Again, it would not be my first reaction, so I was curious as to why it would be his.

[way2muchcoffee]

sbk - you nicely sidestepped grapetable's question. If you were getting beat down on the street while a gaggle of guys sat around and watched, would you wish for somebody to have the courage to step up and put a stop to it?

It isn't meant to be a confrontational question. I know that if I were in a similar situation, as the victim, I would certainly be grateful.

Edited March 20, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[sbk]

Actually, I was unhappy with the perception that I was dissing the guy for not helping the girl first, mine was an honest question.

And the answer, it would be unlikely that I would get myself into a situation where I was being "beat down" by a man. My father did not raise girls who take crap from men. I would not put up with a man who hit me. Most women who are in relationships with men who beat them have been beaten more than once, and continue to return to the abuser. And this is why the police hate getting involved in domestics, because often they are in as much danger from the woman seeing her man get beaten as they are from the man.

[grapetable]

SBK..........apologies for giving or attributing that perception to your post.......not intended. Just asking a lady a question of being in her shoes at the time............

I think the deeper question here is why do Thai males (some anyway) like to get involved in beating farangs for no good reason........????

[sbk]

We don't know that they were 4 random guys watching a woman get beaten up, do we? As has been previously pointed out, we don't know and the OP certainly didn't know the true situation. Of course, it is never ok to hit anyone so hard that they go into convulsions and I would have probably rushed to help the woman, as that would have been my first reaction, but none of us know what was going on in that scenario. So, despite the OP assuming the 4 guys were uninvolved, there is no way of knowing that for sure. For all we know, this woman could have just beaten up his mother and he was getting his revenge, and those were his friends. She could also have been his wife, who has put up with years of abuse and these 4 guys knew that even if they intervened, she'd still go back to him. So, some drunken farang guy rushes in and and tries to kill their friend. What makes that "no reason"?

There are a hundred different stories that could be attributed to this event, none of which we can ever know for sure.

[way2muchcoffee]

Another sidestep. Nicely done.

I ask because I was the victim of a mugging in BKK a few years ago. I was walking to a friend's apartment and had to cross over a bridge. It was about 9 at night. Two guys with machetes cornered me on the bridge, one coming from behind and one from in front. They said nothing, asked for nothing, and when they approached one of them immediately swung the machete, arcing downward toward my forehead. Instinctively I put up my hand to block the machete. I nearly lost the pinky finger of my left hand and the thumb was cut fairly deeply as well. I managed to break free and ran as fast as I could, losing a shoe in the process. The two guys chased in pursuit. The first people I reached were at an outdoor neighborhood restaurant. I pleaded with the restaurant worker and several of the patrons for help. All they did was turn away as the two guys slowed, but kept approaching. They literally turned their chairs and faced away. I continued past two more noodle type shops, each with several customers, and each time pleading for help. Nobody would help, so the guys kept up their pursuit for another 50 m or so until I came to within sight of a police box. The two assailants then quickly disappeared into the darkness.

I most certainly would have appreciated any kind of assistance. A phone call to the police, even a shout from one or two of the patrons would probably have sent the guys on their way. Severe damage was done to my finger and I have limited mobility and almost no feeling in it today. Truth be told, I am lucky to be alive.

Edited March 20, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[grapetable]

Yes we dont know.........SBK........it is a common refrain on this forum that if you are in an issue with Thais......they always gang up on the farang......related or friends to each other or not.............Why the hatred? Is it jealousy

[Thaiboxer]

It's sad to see some dirtbag punching his wife out, or whoever she is. However, I must agree with what some others have said: This is not the USA and you're in the minority in a country where there is a wolf pack mentality. I'm from the USA and over there that guy would have been thrown in jail for a while, but here things can be quite different. A fellow American buddy of mine who is part Japanese (but looks Thai) and speaks fluent Thai told me one day: "Thais will never fight you one on one." Referring back to my comment about the wolf pack mentality, this is how it often is. Get in a brawl with a local and he'll have others join him before you can say your middle name. I do know Thai guys who would go one on one in a fight, but they are probably in the minority. As for attempting to track down the others and dish out a beating, you're lucky you didn't wind up in worse trouble than you were in originally. Most Thai men would look like midgets to a guy who's 190cm, but you just don't know who you could be dealing with, so best to just bite your lip and move on. If it helps, get on this forum and take our your frustrations rather than put yourself in danger.