Burning Continues And Air Quality Issues

[T_Dog]

I am awake in the night as I write this with a burning chest and a throbbing headache. The neighbors here in the Wat Pong Noi area 3 KM south of CMU are burning leaves like they do almost every night but today the smoke is especially thick at my rental house. Earlier today I took a bike ride up to Doi Kham, the hill west of the airport with the beautiful white Buddha statue. A crew of four people were raking the leaves on the side of the road, and burning them. On this road, they could easily just push the leaves over the side of the road into the deep forest gullies and let them decompose naturally. But they don’t…. they burn them.

I have printed up cards that politely tell of the health risks and possible affects on tourism. The cards also provide an alternative idea to compost. I hand them out when I see people burning but they seem to have little impact.

My father and sister died of lung cancer in their fifties and I am concerned that if I stay in Thailand, I will be next. The issue of vile smoke pollution never crossed my mind as I made the decision to move to this beautiful country two years ago, but now I am afraid it will make me leave.

So I ask you, is there anything that could be done to get the colleges and the government to become involved to stop the burning once and for all? Do you have contacts that would want to get involved? Also, what are the current phone numbers that can be called outside of the city of Chiang Mai that might possibly rally law enforcement of a practice that I understand is illegal? Chiang Mai has a very high respiratory illness level and eliminating the burning would sure help that a lot. What are the things that concerned Thai nationals and visitors can do on this issue? The city of Chiang Mai is getting good results reducing the burning so now it would be good to expand those successes to outlying areas.

[jdinasia]

Yeppers if you are printing cards you probably should find some place else to live.

[Pantip]

I agree with jdnasia – you should seriously think of moving on as it will take forever to change tradition and you are obviously badly effected by the smoke. I personally like the smell of burning leaves, it also has the effect of keeping mosquitoes at bay!!

[Ajarn]

With your cards, you seem to be doing a lot. I congratulate you.

But I can't think of anything to help you except to suggest moving to some other country...

[Bananaman]

I am awake in the night as I write this with a burning chest and a throbbing headache. The neighbors here in the Wat Pong Noi area 3 KM south of CMU are burning leaves like they do almost every night but today the smoke is especially thick at my rental house. Earlier today I took a bike ride up to Doi Kham, the hill west of the airport with the beautiful white Buddha statue. A crew of four people were raking the leaves on the side of the road, and burning them. On this road, they could easily just push the leaves over the side of the road into the deep forest gullies and let them decompose naturally. But they don’t…. they burn them.

I have printed up cards that politely tell of the health risks and possible affects on tourism. The cards also provide an alternative idea to compost. I hand them out when I see people burning but they seem to have little impact.

My father and sister died of lung cancer in their fifties and I am concerned that if I stay in Thailand, I will be next. The issue of vile smoke pollution never crossed my mind as I made the decision to move to this beautiful country two years ago, but now I am afraid it will make me leave.

So I ask you, is there anything that could be done to get the colleges and the government to become involved to stop the burning once and for all? Do you have contacts that would want to get involved? Also, what are the current phone numbers that can be called outside of the city of Chiang Mai that might possibly rally law enforcement of a practice that I understand is illegal? Chiang Mai has a very high respiratory illness level and eliminating the burning would sure help that a lot. What are the things that concerned Thai nationals and visitors can do on this issue? The city of Chiang Mai is getting good results reducing the burning so now it would be good to expand those successes to outlying areas.

I read a lot of posts from people on this forum who say they are bored reading about the burning/pollution issue and the constant whingers and whiners who are doing nothing to help the situation and yet here's a guy who's gotten off his ass and made an effort to do something and yet he's getting nothing but suggestions that he should leave and not a whole lot in the way of support. T_Dog's actions are commendable and if everybody took his approach then maybe we would begin to see some change in the local attitudes. Remember the words of Lao Tzu "A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step". Well I think T_Dog has taken that first step.

T_Dog, any chance you can upload the original raw text file to this thread so that others of us might print it off and hand them out in a similar fashion?

Edited March 21, 2008 by Bananaman

[anonymouse]

Very good I'll have to print some off so I can hand them out around the moo baan on april fools day

[T_Dog]

Thanks for your comments, but the suggestions for me to leave are a bit premature. The card I attached was written by a Thai Chiang Mai University professor with help of several Thai friends. These people all deplore the burning and want change. There are many more Thai’s active on this issue than farangs, of that you can be sure. Just read the local magazines and newspapers and you can see articles of Moobaans buying shredders and mandating composting, and the city of Chiang Mai has made major strides in trucking away leaves for composting. Sure there is a tradition of burning, but people are becoming aware of the health risks and starting to change things. The country will be better with clear and healthy air. I believe the government is making progress on this issue on many fronts, but mainly in the city of Chiang Mai. It needs to expand further.

My post last night was admittedly written in a moment of frustration as I thought of what more could be done to improve education, as that is where it all starts. I think people have the choice to try to do something, put up with it, or leave. I would hate to leave as Thailand is the last bastion of kindness and compassion in the world. So why not try to improve things here? The Thais are trying. So let’s get back on the track of the post with some positive suggestions on what could be done.

[T_Dog]

"T_Dog, any chance you can upload the original raw text file to this thread so that others of us might print it off and hand them out in a similar fashion?"

Banana Man, I appreciate your words of support. They certainly are a "breath of fresh air" on this thread! I don't have the file, but I'll try to get it on Saturday and post it. We had them done at a print shop at Central on Huay Gaew Road and another one by CMU. I'll try to see if they are willing to provide them to others.

Onward Ever,

[anonymouse]

Thanks for your comments, but the suggestions for me to leave are a bit premature. The card I attached was written by a Thai Chiang Mai University professor with help of several Thai friends. These people all deplore the burning and want change. There are many more Thai’s active on this issue than farangs, of that you can be sure. Just read the local magazines and newspapers and you can see articles of Moobaans buying shredders and mandating composting, and the city of Chiang Mai has made major strides in trucking away leaves for composting. Sure there is a tradition of burning, but people are becoming aware of the health risks and starting to change things. The country will be better with clear and healthy air. I believe the government is making progress on this issue on many fronts, but mainly in the city of Chiang Mai. It needs to expand further.

My post last night was admittedly written in a moment of frustration as I thought of what more could be done to improve education, as that is where it all starts. I think people have the choice to try to do something, put up with it, or leave. I would hate to leave as Thailand is the last bastion of kindness and compassion in the world. So why not try to improve things here? The Thais are trying. So let’s get back on the track of the post with some positive suggestions on what could be done.

While my last post was meant as a bit of a joke I understand your concerns but I believe the only way forward is Carrot and stick approach, there will have to be some sort of tangible reward to make the majority change their way of doing things.

[Priceless]

I am awake in the night as I write this with a burning chest and a throbbing headache. The neighbors here in the Wat Pong Noi area 3 KM south of CMU are burning leaves like they do almost every night but today the smoke is especially thick at my rental house. Earlier today I took a bike ride up to Doi Kham, the hill west of the airport with the beautiful white Buddha statue. A crew of four people were raking the leaves on the side of the road, and burning them. On this road, they could easily just push the leaves over the side of the road into the deep forest gullies and let them decompose naturally. But they don’t…. they burn them.

I have printed up cards that politely tell of the health risks and possible affects on tourism. The cards also provide an alternative idea to compost. I hand them out when I see people burning but they seem to have little impact.

My father and sister died of lung cancer in their fifties and I am concerned that if I stay in Thailand, I will be next. The issue of vile smoke pollution never crossed my mind as I made the decision to move to this beautiful country two years ago, but now I am afraid it will make me leave.

So I ask you, is there anything that could be done to get the colleges and the government to become involved to stop the burning once and for all? Do you have contacts that would want to get involved? Also, what are the current phone numbers that can be called outside of the city of Chiang Mai that might possibly rally law enforcement of a practice that I understand is illegal? Chiang Mai has a very high respiratory illness level and eliminating the burning would sure help that a lot. What are the things that concerned Thai nationals and visitors can do on this issue? The city of Chiang Mai is getting good results reducing the burning so now it would be good to expand those successes to outlying areas.

I think the idea (and execution) of the cards is an excellent initiative! To change habits that go back maybe hundreds of years will take a lot of information and constant reminding (and nagging and enforcement) and this is one way to contribute.

The "colleges and government" are already involved, though with what commitment and persistence may be rather doubtful... However, I don't really think that we will see very significant positive change in less than 5-10 years. Furthermore, the air in Chiang Mai will never be as good as on the coast (e.g. Phuket or Surat Thani) because of Chiang Mai's location, inland and more or less surrounded by mountains.

If you are suffering the way you describe, and you have a family history which indicates a possible genetical susceptibility for lung cancer and/or other respiratory ailments, it would probably be a smart move to (if possible) leave Chiang Mai at least during the month of March. I love Chiang Mai and am quite willing to give up certain things to live here, but my life???

/ Priceless

[Mapguy]

I am awake in the night as I write this with a burning chest and a throbbing headache. The neighbors here in the Wat Pong Noi area 3 KM south of CMU are burning leaves like they do almost every night but today the smoke is especially thick at my rental house. Earlier today I took a bike ride up to Doi Kham, the hill west of the airport with the beautiful white Buddha statue. A crew of four people were raking the leaves on the side of the road, and burning them. On this road, they could easily just push the leaves over the side of the road into the deep forest gullies and let them decompose naturally. But they don't…. they burn them.

I have printed up cards that politely tell of the health risks and possible affects on tourism. The cards also provide an alternative idea to compost. I hand them out when I see people burning but they seem to have little impact.

My father and sister died of lung cancer in their fifties and I am concerned that if I stay in Thailand, I will be next. The issue of vile smoke pollution never crossed my mind as I made the decision to move to this beautiful country two years ago, but now I am afraid it will make me leave.

So I ask you, is there anything that could be done to get the colleges and the government to become involved to stop the burning once and for all? Do you have contacts that would want to get involved? Also, what are the current phone numbers that can be called outside of the city of Chiang Mai that might possibly rally law enforcement of a practice that I understand is illegal? Chiang Mai has a very high respiratory illness level and eliminating the burning would sure help that a lot. What are the things that concerned Thai nationals and visitors can do on this issue? The city of Chiang Mai is getting good results reducing the burning so now it would be good to expand those successes to outlying areas.

There is a presentation on improving Chiang Mai environmentally at the Chiang Mai Expats Club tomorrow, Saturday, 22 March. Best to get there about 10AM for a 10:30 start.

More importantly, there is a meeting of an action committee specifically on the issue of burning at noon, Sunday, 23 March, at The Large Wawee;at Nimmanhemin Soi 9 behind the Starbucks. The group, comprising Thais and expatriates, organizing this meeting has been active for some time now.

The organizers note very strongly that this is an action group, NOT a place for speeches. You'd really be preaching to the choir here.

Otherwise, T_Dog, you seem to be needing some background. There are several threads on this board on the topic, which is upsetting to both those who feel the issue is a vital one for Chiang Mai and others who get bored with it. Some have some excellent posts with substantive information. It is too bad that this very important discussion can't be organized better. Some of the threads have odd titles like "Dear General." Otherwise, do some active keywording, using terms like "burning," "raining," "air pollution," Air quality" and the like.

[haybilly]

I am awake in the night as I write this with a burning chest and a throbbing headache. The neighbors here in the Wat Pong Noi area 3 KM south of CMU are burning leaves like they do almost every night but today the smoke is especially thick at my rental house. Earlier today I took a bike ride up to Doi Kham, the hill west of the airport with the beautiful white Buddha statue. A crew of four people were raking the leaves on the side of the road, and burning them. On this road, they could easily just push the leaves over the side of the road into the deep forest gullies and let them decompose naturally. But they don't…. they burn them.

I have printed up cards that politely tell of the health risks and possible affects on tourism. The cards also provide an alternative idea to compost. I hand them out when I see people burning but they seem to have little impact.

My father and sister died of lung cancer in their fifties and I am concerned that if I stay in Thailand, I will be next. The issue of vile smoke pollution never crossed my mind as I made the decision to move to this beautiful country two years ago, but now I am afraid it will make me leave.

So I ask you, is there anything that could be done to get the colleges and the government to become involved to stop the burning once and for all? Do you have contacts that would want to get involved? Also, what are the current phone numbers that can be called outside of the city of Chiang Mai that might possibly rally law enforcement of a practice that I understand is illegal? Chiang Mai has a very high respiratory illness level and eliminating the burning would sure help that a lot. What are the things that concerned Thai nationals and visitors can do on this issue? The city of Chiang Mai is getting good results reducing the burning so now it would be good to expand those successes to outlying areas.

I read a lot of posts from people on this forum who say they are bored reading about the burning/pollution issue and the constant whingers and whiners who are doing nothing to help the situation and yet here's a guy who's gotten off his ass and made an effort to do something and yet he's getting nothing but suggestions that he should leave and not a whole lot in the way of support. T_Dog's actions are commendable and if everybody took his approach then maybe we would begin to see some change in the local attitudes. Remember the words of Lao Tzu "A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step". Well I think T_Dog has taken that first step.

T_Dog, any chance you can upload the original raw text file to this thread so that others of us might print it off and hand them out in a similar fashion?

I am with T_Dog on this one also--anything that can be done to help 'educate' the people about this is definitely for the good--and, before you all start, by 'educate' I am not necessarily suggesting that the people doing this are stupid but that they may not 100% understand all the implications.

[swain]

Sorry I have been very busy or I would have added my two cents as well. So many of these posts now a days sound like "Thailand, Love it or leave it" I say love it and help it when you can. T-dog you have the right idea and you can make a difference. My family has friends with the boys in brown and we have reported many (4) burners with some satisfaction with the results. Reporting neighbors and local farms has had the effect of education more than retribution. They have come out and warned that if this happens again there will be problems. Even when they have come out days later it has had a positive effect.

Maybe we cant change Thailand as a whole but we can work on our small part of it.

As for the comment "I personally like the smell of burning leaves, it also has the effect of keeping mosquitoes at bay!!" its hard address this with out going extremely negative, but we people that live next to the mountains have to do things a bit different than people that live on the open expanse because the smoke gets trapped and has no where to go. I suggest that maybe Chiang Mai might not be the place for your penchant for the smell of burning leaves.

[Blinky Bill]

Just a thought, but how would you feel if in your home countries, some minority group (ex-pats are a minotity group in Thailand) came along and started telling you how to live your life and change your traditions whether it be for the better or otherwise? I'm sure that not much notice would be taken.

[swain]

Just a thought, but how would you feel if in your home countries, some minority group (ex-pats are a minotity group in Thailand) came along and started telling you how to live your life and change your traditions whether it be for the better or otherwise? I'm sure that not much notice would be taken.

Its not just the minority's that are speaking up... but to address what your comment I would not have a problem with someone who was pushing for positive change. I have been here for 5 going on 6 years and I am here for the long haul. You seem to be saying quiet down you are a guest in this country, who are you to say anything about anything.

[anonymouse]

Just a thought, but how would you feel if in your home countries, some minority group (ex-pats are a minotity group in Thailand) came along and started telling you how to live your life and change your traditions whether it be for the better or otherwise? I'm sure that not much notice would be taken.

Going completely off topic, if a group of Muslims complained to the Government in the UK something would be done about it, but if myself or any of my native countrymen complained we would probably be ignored.

Though personally if anybody put a leaflet through my letter box telling me how to behave, I'd do the exact opposite, but that's childish ol' me .

[Mapguy]

Thanks for your comments, but the suggestions for me to leave are a bit premature. The card I attached was written by a Thai Chiang Mai University professor with help of several Thai friends. These people all deplore the burning and want change. There are many more Thai's active on this issue than farangs, of that you can be sure. Just read the local magazines and newspapers and you can see articles of Moobaans buying shredders and mandating composting, and the city of Chiang Mai has made major strides in trucking away leaves for composting. Sure there is a tradition of burning, but people are becoming aware of the health risks and starting to change things. The country will be better with clear and healthy air. I believe the government is making progress on this issue on many fronts, but mainly in the city of Chiang Mai. It needs to expand further.

My post last night was admittedly written in a moment of frustration as I thought of what more could be done to improve education, as that is where it all starts. I think people have the choice to try to do something, put up with it, or leave. I would hate to leave as Thailand is the last bastion of kindness and compassion in the world. So why not try to improve things here? The Thais are trying. So let's get back on the track of the post with some positive suggestions on what could be done.

There appears to be an additional pollution monitoring station in Chiang Mai. Go to the PCD Regional Daily Air Quality site << http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/Default.cfm >>. You will find three monitoring sites, one located at Uparaj College in the old city. Chiang Mai is a large province, and I do not know where the other two monitoring stations are located.

I am posting recent graphs on particulate matter for comparison. They reveal local differences and the greater area effects of burning. As unfortunate people with neighbors who burn their garbage know, the effect can be devastating without its bothering someone who is not downwind. However, because of the topography of Chiang Mai and various weather effects, the larger impact becomes apparent all too often.

CM_Uparaj_College_PM_MAR08.pdf

CM_Consolidated_PM_21MAR08.pdf

Chiang_Mai__1_PM_MAR08.pdf

Chiangmai__2_PM_MAR08.pdf

CM_Uparaj_College_PM_MAR08.pdf

[Blinky Bill]

Just a thought, but how would you feel if in your home countries, some minority group (ex-pats are a minotity group in Thailand) came along and started telling you how to live your life and change your traditions whether it be for the better or otherwise? I'm sure that not much notice would be taken.

Its not just the minority's that are speaking up... but to address what your comment I would not have a problem with someone who was pushing for positive change. I have been here for 5 going on 6 years and I am here for the long haul. You seem to be saying quiet down you are a guest in this country, who are you to say anything about anything.

Yes I am a guest in the country and have been for 24 years. I have worked on projects with the Royal Thai Lands Department and Royal Thai Survey Department since 1983 continued to do so up to 4 years ago. I have seen more of Thailand than the most Thais having worked over the entire country extensively. I do speak the language and a few dialects with competence. I believe I know a lot more about Thailand than you and I do have the right to say anything about anything as you put it.

Unless you were born here or have citizenship you too are a guest.

[swain]

Just a thought, but how would you feel if in your home countries, some minority group (ex-pats are a minotity group in Thailand) came along and started telling you how to live your life and change your traditions whether it be for the better or otherwise? I'm sure that not much notice would be taken.

Its not just the minority's that are speaking up... but to address what your comment I would not have a problem with someone who was pushing for positive change. I have been here for 5 going on 6 years and I am here for the long haul. You seem to be saying quiet down you are a guest in this country, who are you to say anything about anything.

Yes I am a guest in the country and have been for 24 years. I have worked on projects with the Royal Thai Lands Department and Royal Thai Survey Department since 1983 continued to do so up to 4 years ago. I have seen more of Thailand than the most Thais having worked over the entire country extensively. I do speak the language and a few dialects with competence. I believe I know a lot more about Thailand than you and I do have the right to say anything about anything as you put it.

Unless you were born here or have citizenship you too are a guest.

Sorry, I think you misunderstood I was implying that you were saying this to me.... "You seem to be saying quiet down you are a guest in this country, who are you to say anything about anything." I would never discount your opinion or your thoughts on the subject. I respect that you have been here this long and that you have a knowledge base of experience to pull from. What I was saying is that just because I am a minority I don't think my voice is any less relevant then that of a local.

[Mapguy]

Just a thought, but how would you feel if in your home countries, some minority group (ex-pats are a minotity group in Thailand) came along and started telling you how to live your life and change your traditions whether it be for the better or otherwise? I'm sure that not much notice would be taken.

Its not just the minority's that are speaking up... but to address what your comment I would not have a problem with someone who was pushing for positive change. I have been here for 5 going on 6 years and I am here for the long haul. You seem to be saying quiet down you are a guest in this country, who are you to say anything about anything.

Yes I am a guest in the country and have been for 24 years. I have worked on projects with the Royal Thai Lands Department and Royal Thai Survey Department since 1983 continued to do so up to 4 years ago. I have seen more of Thailand than the most Thais having worked over the entire country extensively. I do speak the language and a few dialects with competence. I believe I know a lot more about Thailand than you and I do have the right to say anything about anything as you put it.

Unless you were born here or have citizenship you too are a guest.

Sorry, I think you misunderstood I was implying that you were saying this to me.... "You seem to be saying quiet down you are a guest in this country, who are you to say anything about anything." I would never discount your opinion or your thoughts on the subject. I respect that you have been here this long and that you have a knowledge base of experience to pull from. What I was saying is that just because I am a minority I don't think my voice is any less relevant then that of a local.

Oy!!! Enough already!!! Misunderstandings can be straigthened out by PM, yes?!

Otherwise, yes, it is a natural reaction among some natives of just about any community to be defensive about requests, suggestions for change or complaints from a stranger. But it is not true in my experience that all people are that way at all and certainly not in Thailand.

[db1tau]

The only thing that can make people change this habit is if they get money for turning in leaves, straw or wood, like they do with scrap metal.

If the oil price rises even more, they could process the biomass in BTL plants and turn it into car fuel or simply compost it, if there is a demand for top soil. Maybe in some years then...

[Gravelrash]

Just a thought, but how would you feel if in your home countries, some minority group (ex-pats are a minotity group in Thailand) came along and started telling you how to live your life and change your traditions whether it be for the better or otherwise? I'm sure that not much notice would be taken.

Its not just the minority's that are speaking up... but to address what your comment I would not have a problem with someone who was pushing for positive change. I have been here for 5 going on 6 years and I am here for the long haul. You seem to be saying quiet down you are a guest in this country, who are you to say anything about anything.

Yes I am a guest in the country and have been for 24 years. I have worked on projects with the Royal Thai Lands Department and Royal Thai Survey Department since 1983 continued to do so up to 4 years ago. I have seen more of Thailand than the most Thais having worked over the entire country extensively. I do speak the language and a few dialects with competence. I believe I know a lot more about Thailand than you and I do have the right to say anything about anything as you put it.

Unless you were born here or have citizenship you too are a guest.

And if you don't like it go home, right. Guest or not why should one adopt the persona of the brain dead that is deviod of thought or opinion. In what way is trying to improve the condition of the air we all breathe, that will be of benefit to Thai society, expecially their children and elderly a bad thing? You do have the right to express your opinions, just as anyone else does without listening to the "I've been here for 24 years and never rocked the boat" nonsense.

And guess what if he fails to arouse awareness he fails. Better than doing sweet fa and whinging about others that have the get up and go to try.

[damole]

Taken today just after one o'clock.

[bsided69]

I cannot agree with you more on this one Bannaman and T_ Dog. Again the same old people are suggesting that the poster should leave. Why Why Why should he leave??? He obviously likes living here but the pollution is a problem for him and many many other people both Farang and Thai, a lot of which is so easily avoidable. Its about trying to educate people and giving them alternatives to age old traditions that are now dangerous for everybody. If you cannot help T _Dog with his mission to change things you really should keep quiet.

I know for a fact that at least one of these unhelpful posters doesn't even live in Thailand. You don't have to have lived in Thailand for a thousand years to qualify for wanting to try and help or change dangerous habits such as the unnecessary burning of leaves and grass.

Keep up your fine work T- Dog and don't worry about the flamers on TV, they simply can't help themselves. Educated people that spend their time trying knock others for trying to make a difference are the lowest form of forum life

Edited March 21, 2008 by bsided69

[Priceless]

Taken today just after one o'clock.

Thank you for an interesting picture! Please forgive the following rather boring discussion (except for any statistics freaks out there )

I wonder if this bus is the one measuring for the "Chiangmai" data series on PCD's web site? If those results are from measurements taken in different locations at different times, that might explain why they don't seem to correlate with the "Chiang Mai" and "Uparaj" data series. Sometimes the "Chiangmai" measurement will increase (or decrease) a lot from one day to the next, while both "Chiang Mai" and "Uparaj" move in the opposite direction. E.g. on 19 March, the "Chiangmai" figure went up by almost 40 ug/m3 while both "Chiang Mai" and "Uparaj" went down by about 20 ug/m3. This has made me mistrust the "Chiangmai" figures, but could easily be explained if the measurements from 18 and 19 March were taken in different locations.

Has anybody seen this bus in other locations?

/ Priceless

Edited March 21, 2008 by Priceless

[whopper]

So I ask you, is there anything that could be done to get the colleges and the government to become involved to stop the burning once and for all?

no

[T_Dog]

For those of you that would like your own cards to hand out, they are available at the COPY and FAX CENTER behind Tops supermarket in the Central Mall basement on Huay Gaew Road. They are 150 baht for 100 cards. Just ask for the BURNING CARD and the helpful fellow there should understand you just fine. Make sure he prints both sides.

I've collected a lot of helpful information about this topic today from this thread as well as from some email that I have received. A big Thank You to all of you that contributed. I think the biggest thanks today goes to the Public Health Department as they were broadcasting loud speaker information about the health affects of burning, and telling people not to burn AT ALL. That was at 5:15 today.

And congratulations should also go to the Thailand Agricultural Department, as their two helicopters and ground pounders contained a serious wind-swept fire on the side of Doi Suthep today. I have seen dozens of fires in Idaho back in the USA and the Thai fire fighters and chopper pilots today were as competent as any I have seen. Good work! I spent some time with the Forestry ground crew as the helicopters were picking up water and they were very helpful and encouraging on the burning issue. They said that it will take time, education, and enforcement, and that it is an important issue for Thailand. These guys certainly weren't nay-sayers at all.

I'll try to summarize all the good ideas this weekend and post it so the individual ideas don''t get lost in all the noise of the extraneous posts.

[mobs00]

I have just flew in from BKK tonight. I guess our flight took us over Lamphun and Lampang as we were descending towards Chiang Mai. It seemed the whole of these provinces were on fire. There were fires big an small as far as you could see. But as we flew over the ridge and into the Chiang Mai valley the fires disappeared, I could not even see one.

I am always a skeptic but this ban seems to be working; in the valley at least.

[Mapguy]

I have just flew in from BKK tonight. I guess our flight took us over Lamphun and Lampang as we were descending towards Chiang Mai. It seemed the whole of these provinces were on fire. There were fires big an small as far as you could see. But as we flew over the ridge and into the Chiang Mai valley the fires disappeared, I could not even see one.

I am always a skeptic but this ban seems to be working; in the valley at least.

Hallelujah, brother!! Or something like that!

About Lamphun and Lampang, yes, it is very sad. That nasty coal-fired plant is Lampang is also a sad, sad problem. Wonderful to read that Chiang Mai Province is clearer of fires today.

Anyway, naysayers --- the "TIT" crowd and so forth--- aside, both Thai and farang are interested in working this problem.

There are many, many different ways to do that. Every person who reads this board can make a difference in varying practical ways. And they don't need to be told how! There is a wonderful expression, something like "Global problem; local solution!" How does it go? Anyway, a person doesn't have to have the right slogan to get involved, be it handing out a polite card about burning, patting a firefighter on the back for dousing an obnoxious and dangerous fire, helping or hounding officials, or something else that is constructive. Just get on the train!

The fires will not go away this year. Not next year. Probably not the third. But with emphasis, education, enforcement, and incentives --- and enfranchisement --- there will be less fires. The situation can change.

Enfranchisement means being given the permission or power to do something. In Thailand, people ARE enfranchised with the highest blessing from the highest authority to do something about pollution in Thailand. It is the greatest gift to be enfranchised. The same thing can not be said of China on this problem. Or on others, unfortunately.

Anyway, go to the meeting on Sunday at noon that is advertised above on this thread.

[mcgriffith]

I see both sides of this issue, both figuratively and literally.

I wasn't really bothered last year, when it was truly horrific on a few select days. Literally international news...

But today seemed particularly bad, very hot, interspersed with a quite warm, almost hot wind....and more than a fair bit of smoke.

I've been out and about all day, ate Isan at my little local in front of CMU main gate, sitting curbside, etc. Not exactly sequestered away in my home. Not that nice, to be honest. For those with respiratory issues, I think the advice given above about absenting oneself during March each year might not be a bad idea.

I would be willing to pick up some of those cards, and distribute them to Thai and farang people I am friends with here. Thanks for the info T_Dog.