Wp And Showing Salary/payment Of Tax To Obtain

[Marvo]

I'm a UK citizen in Thailand on a 1 yr multi-entry non-imm "O" visa.

The GF and I have just set up a (Thai) Ltd. Co. here in LOS (with 2 million baht registered capital). The next step is to apply for a work permit but I have a few questions:

Firstly, I understand that I can obtain a WP on a non-imm O. Also I'll be "happy" to carry on doing the 90 day runs to the border to get new 90 day "permission to stay" stamps for the time being.

The big question is: How do I (and do I need to) show proof of earnings (30,000 baht per month to meet a minimum tax payment?) as the company has not begun to trade yet? Do I wait until I get my first tax/pay slip or whatever you call it showing the 1,500 baht / month tax? Have I got this figure right? Also, with the new tax breaks announced by the government about to come into force, does this mean I'll have to up my wages in order to achieve the 1,500 baht per month tax payment?

If I ever want to go for the 1 yr extension of stay on a non-imm B route, can someone confirm that the Co. will need to show income (800,000 baht/yr???) that will allow payment of a salary of 50,000 baht/mo? Also, do we need to then employ 4 Thais IN ADDITION to the Co. paying me 50,000/mo? My head is in a right mucking fuddle as it's way past my bedtime.

Many thanks for clarifying this for me.

[monty]

The big question is: How do I (and do I need to) show proof of earnings (30,000 baht per month to meet a minimum tax payment?) as the company has not begun to trade yet? Do I wait until I get my first tax/pay slip or whatever you call it showing the 1,500 baht / month tax? Have I got this figure right? Also, with the new tax breaks announced by the government about to come into force, does this mean I'll have to up my wages in order to achieve the 1,500 baht per month tax payment?

As long as you are doing 90 day border runs you'll not have to worry about the above at this time. At this moment, the only minimum tax requirement is to declare your salary at least the same as you stated when applying for your work permit, and pay the respective taxes on it.

You'll only need supporting paperwork when you renew your work permit after 1 year, not on the 90 day re-validating when you bring the validity in sync again with your new immigration stamp. You accountant can/should handle this, including paying in the minimum monthly withholding tax...

AFAIK everything is based on your actual salary, and not on the taxes you pay! If the tax system changes, it is up to the labour department to only allow higher salaries when applying for a WP methinks. If they agree on a salary on your application, they will honour this agreement, although possibly they might require a higher salary next year.

You do need to pay the withholding tax (personal income), even if your company is not trading yet to get the paper trail prepared for next year.

Do note that the above is based on a 1 year work permit (you can check on the left bottom corner on page 4 of your WP, it'll say Work period 1 year), but which will only be valid until the same date you are allowed in Thailand (this date you'll find on page 7 of your WP). This validity will get renewed everytime you do a border run. These renewals will be filled in your WP starting at page 8...

If I ever want to go for the 1 yr extension of stay on a non-imm B route, can someone confirm that the Co. will need to show income (800,000 baht/yr???) that will allow payment of a salary of 50,000 baht/mo? Also, do we need to then employ 4 Thais IN ADDITION to the Co. paying me 50,000/mo? My head is in a right mucking fuddle as it's way past my bedtime.

That is correct, the requirements from immigration are quite a bit higher the what than labour department wants from you! The 800,000 should show on the audited balance sheet of last years accounting from your company. Additionally immigration will make you jump more hoops as well. You need pictures of your employees at work, immigration will show up with these pictures and make sure said employees are actually working at your company (the tax paper trail alone is not sufficient anymore!), plus if you plan to do this in the future, you better start paying taxes on 50,000 Baht salary straight away!

Actually, the only reason for you to be here on a non immigrant O, is when you plan to marry your GF and subsequently get a 1 year extension of stay based on the marriage. (in which case you'll have to pay taxes on a 40,000 Baht salary to qualify). If you have the 1 year marriage extension, your WP will automatically be valid till until the day your allowed in Thailand, and you'll not have to supply immigration with all the companies accounting and staff checks.

If you don't plan to marry, the proper visa would be a non immigrant type B.

[Marvo]

AFAIK everything is based on your actual salary, and not on the taxes you pay...

Hi Monty,

Many thanks for sharing the benefit of all of your hard-won experience. The query I have in my mind is put there by what I read in the "How to get a Thai work permit - New work permit rules May 2002" section here on ThaiVisa. Option 5 says:

5. An expatriate having an income and duty to pay personal income tax to the Revenue Department of equivalent or more than 18,000 Baht, or already paid personal income tax in the past year of equivalent or more than 18,000 Baht.

Supported Document:

• If an expatriate has never worked in the Kingdom, he must provide the employment contract to the officer in order to estimate an expatriate's ability to pay such tax. Accordingly, in the case of single expatriates, he must have personal income of at least 30,000 Baht, and in the case of married expatriate, he must have personal income of at least 45,000 Baht per month.
  
• If an expatriate used to have the permit, he must present proof of personal income tax payment of equivalent or more than 18,000 Baht along with a receipt from the Revenue Department.
  

Does this mean that if you have worked in Thailand before, you need to show min. 18,000 Baht taxes paid in the previous year, but if you have never worked in Thailand before, you need to show evidenvce (i.e. employment contract) of a min. 30,000 Baht/month gross income?

I'm also thinking now about what I'm allowed to work at as an "alien" here in Thailand. I would ideally like to go to the Labour Department asking to be allowed to do 1) Graphic Design, 2) Photography, AND 3)"work supporting export of Thai products". In your opinion, looking at the list below, do you think that I will find a problem. I don't see these "occupations" I wish to follow directly mentioned below, but TiT and I worry I've missed something and that I'll get caught out by some official who got out of bed the wrong side that morning.

It is likely to take a year or more to get income flowing and a revenue showing on the books so do you reckon it's OK to transfer sufficient funds into the company's Directors Loan Account and draw the wages each month (and pay the tax!) that way?

Thanks again for your ideas/opinions.

Occupations prohibited to foreigners in Thailand

1. Manual work

2. Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision

3. Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works

4. Wood carving

5. Driving mechanically propelled carried or driving non-mechanically-propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting

6. Shop attendance

7. Auction

8. Supervising, auditing or giving service in accountancy excluding internal auditing on occasions

9. Cutting or polishing jewelry

10. Haircutting, hairdressing or beauty treatment

11. Cloth weaving by hand

12. Weaving of mate or making products from reeds, rattan, hemp, straw or bamboo pellicle

13. Making of Sa paper by hand

14. Lacquer ware making

15. Making of Thai musical instrument

16. Niello ware making

17. Making of products from gold, silver or gold-copper alloy

18. Bronze ware making

19. Making of Thai dolls

20. Making of mattress or quilt blanket

21. Alms bowls casting

22. Making of silk products by hand

23. Casting of Buddha images

24. Knife making

25. Making of paper of cloth umbrella

26. Shoemaking

27. Hat Making

28. Brokerage or agency excluding brokerage or agency in international trade business

29. Engineering work in civil engineering branch concerning designing and calculation, organization, research, planning, testing, construction supervision or advising excluding specialized work

30. Architectural work concerning designing, drawing of plan, estimating, construction directing or advising

31. Garments making

32. Pottery or ceramic ware making

33. Cigarette making by hand

34. Guide or conducting sightseeing tours

35. Street Vending

36. Type setting of Thai characters by hand

37. Drawing and twisting silk-thread by hand

38. Office or secretarial work

39. Legal or lawsuit services

[ralfbkk]

Are you here on a Retire "O" or on a marriage "O"? Many people still call their wives "gf" when here in Thailand. If you are married in Thaiand,then a Minimum Capital of 1.000.000 THB is enough. Your Minimum Salary should be at least 50K THB per month. If you are a registered share holder of this Thai Ltd. Company then dividends to not count toward your salary. These will be taxed with the year end.The 1st year is pretty easy. Make sure you pay your withholding and VAT's on a monthly basis (WH not later than 7 days). After the 1st year and with a established year 2008 balance sheet, it might be more difficult to keep the work permit, if the company hasnt really been trading. Nobody is saying that you need to make money and profits but you need to have a balance sheet with some good payables and receivables.

To the other 2 questions, yes you need at least 4 People = 1 Work Permit when it comes to a regular Thai Ltd. Trading / Service company. The gf, the nanny, the maid and the driver make already 4. For the Non "B" Visa, no you dont need that as the current Thai Law allows you to work with a "O" Visa. Some say it was even easier for them to renew the work permit. This might be a case by case situation.

To qualify all this, the only good thing I can recommend you, get a good accountant (20K a month) and she will be able to assist you with paying the taxes on time and having the documents filled in probably. I registered our company 22 Nov 2007 and everything worked out fine so far. PM me for further questions.

[Marvo]

Just to clarify:

1)Here on regular Non-imm "O" 1yr multi.

2)Not retired

3)Not married

4)Have the option of Thai company invoicing my UK company to get "income". Outgoings for the time being would be just my salary and accountant fees though.

5)Would still like to be sure that Graphic Design, Photography & "work supporting export of Thai products" are legit occupations for a foreigner here in LOS.

6)Re the 4 Thai employees, people in a couple of threads have mentioned that the authorities have tightened up and ARE visiting the workplace to check up now.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Many thanks for sharing the benefit of all of your hard-won experience. The query I have in my mind is put there by what I read in the "How to get a Thai work permit - New work permit rules May 2002" section here on ThaiVisa. Option 5 says:

Department of Employment Regulations were changed in Oct 2004. The regulations of May 2002 you were looking at are no longer valid for new applicants.

These are the regulations in 2004.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18599

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Marvo]

Department of Employment Regulations were changed in Oct 2004. The regulations of May 2002 you were looking at are no longer valid for new applicants.

These are the regulations in 2004

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18599

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Many thanks for that clarification Sunbelt/Greg, that's saved me some grief/confusion and now makes sense of the things you've been saying in more recent posts. After reading your 2004 posts, could you tell me, are we still ok applying for WP on 2 mil registered capital that has not actually been fully (or 25%) paid up?

Still would appreciate anyone's knowledge on whether or not for sure Graphic Design, Photography & "work supporting export of Thai products" are legitimate/allowed occupations for a foreigner here in LOS.

Also, maybe it would be a good idea if one of the mods could organise an update of the ThaiVisa website (link on the homepage " New work permit rules. May 2002") which is giving missleading and outdated information as regards new applicants. Cheers

[Sunbelt Asia]

Many thanks for that clarification Sunbelt/Greg, that's saved me some grief/confusion and now makes sense of the things you've been saying in more recent posts. After reading your 2004 posts, could you tell me, are we still ok applying for WP on 2 mil registered capital that has not actually been fully (or 25%) paid up?

Yes

Still would appreciate anyone's knowledge on whether or not for sure Graphic Design, Photography & "work supporting export of Thai products" are legitimate/allowed occupations for a foreigner here in LOS.

We have a number of clients in the industry. Never had a problem getting them a work permit.

Also, maybe it would be a good idea if one of the mods could organise an update of the ThaiVisa website (link on the homepage " New work permit rules. May 2002") which is giving missleading and outdated information as regards new applicants. Cheers

Valid point. Will point it out to George.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com