Sometimes It Pays To Be A Pushy Westerner In Thailand

[garro]

The last few days have been very difficult for me and my wife. Our young son has been sick and he needed to be taken into hospital. He developed a high fever three nights ago and due to this he had a seizure. I was away at the time as I needed to go to Burma for a border run. I was unable to get back until the next day.

When I got back to the hospital it was a huge shock to see how sick Timmy looked. He was in the middle of a high fever and his face was all puffy and he his eyes were open but he was so quite. It almost tore me apart to see him this way. The hospital was unable to find any reason for his symptoms. I was amazed to find that they hadn’t even taken any bloods yet. They wanted to wait and see it the fevers would resolve themselves.

Our local hospital is very basic. Timmy was born there seven months ago and they did a great job, but I wasn’t sure they were the best place for him this time. I wanted to move him to the city and to a private hospital. The problem was that it was two hours away by car and I was worried that he might have a seizure again while we were far away from a hospital. In the end we waited until his temperature was falling and moved him.

The local hospital wanted us to wait until the doctor arrived in the hospital, but they couldn’t tell us when this would be. I wasn’t prepared to wait around for a few more hours for a doctor’s letter that wouldn’t say much. I though it prudent that we move Timmy while he was having a break in his fever. I basically told them that they couldn't stop me moving my son and that we had already waited three hours for the doctor to arrive. They probably found it shocking that they were having their orders questioned, but I was beyond caring about saving face. I am a trained nurse and know when things aren't been done right.

In the private hospital they immediately took bloods and performed other tests to try and find a cause for his symptoms. They still can’t find anything but at least they are looking. Timmy seems to be improving and was fever free for most of the night. It looks like he is on the mend.

While most of the time I think it is wrong for us westerners to be pushy in most cases in Thailand. I think that sometimes it can be of benefit.

[Dakhar]

That does not sound "Pushy" to me. Fact is, they probably did not mind at all. You took a sick child out of their clinic. A child that apparently they have no clue what is wrong with him. So now the child will be someone elses problem.

But I would be concerned too. High fevers can lead to some long term serious issues. Death being the one of them.

[Boo]

not pushy imo, good parenting, I wouldn't leave my son in a hospital where they didn't want to take blood & just "wait & see" . As for only one doc being able to sign a release & not being around for 3+ hours then you did the right thing, what would they have done if your son had started convulsing & needed urgent & immideate attention? Told you to wait & see??? nah, not pushy at all.

[Thaiboxer]

Garro, I'm glad that your little boy is recuperating. I hope he makes a full recovery. As others have said, I don't believe you were being pushy, and even if you were, this is your family we're talking about and if the clinic out in the sticks doesn't like it, than tough!

Where you live sounds peaceful, but your situation with your son's fever and the clinics inability to find out what's wrong makes me think of another good reason we're in BKK. It's noisy and stressful sometimes, but hospitals are good.

[mellow1]

Glad to hear your son is doing better, you did the right thing for him. How do they see whats wrong with patients without lab tests?

[PeaceBlondie]

Garro, did this happen in the remote place you are moving away from soon? I no longer wish to live less than 20 minutes' ride from one of the best hospitals in the country. You did the right thing.

[jdinasia]

While most of the time I think it is wrong for us westerners to be pushy in most cases in Thailand. I think that sometimes it can be of benefit.

First, I hope Timmy is well on the mend!

Second, My partner had Dengue Fever about a year before we met. His mother came the 100km into BKK and saw him in the local hospital. She immediately had them get an ambulance and transport him to a major (quite expensive) private hospital in town. So being a pushy wetsrner has little to do with it! Being able not only to afford but to insist upon the best possible care for your child does!. (note in this case there was no difference in actual treatment between the 2 hospitals)

[vegas]

Sounds like a febrile seizure. My daughter had one while I was at work. Her fever shot up suddenly and she seized for about 10 minutes. We rushed her to Bumrungrad and they bought her fever down with damp towels (rubbing her skin vigourously) and recommended Ibuprofen if she has high fever again.

[jdinasia]

Sounds like a febrile seizure. My daughter had one while I was at work. Her fever shot up suddenly and she seized for about 10 minutes. We rushed her to Bumrungrad and they bought her fever down with damp towels (rubbing her skin vigourously) and recommended Ibuprofen if she has high fever again.

in Thailand you should be very careful with Ibuprofen if there is any chance the fever is caused by Dengue (better to use Paracetemol if there is ANY chance it is Dengue at all!)

[garro]

Thanks all. I suppose it wasn't really that pushy. A few nights lack of sleep can make things seem worse that they are. The good news is that they discharged him today. He is still running fevers but they are nowhere near as high and they have given me some valium which I can use if he has another seizure. The doctor is fairly sure that he won't and that he will be fine in a couple of days.

PB: we were actually meant to be moving house tomorrow but will need to wait a few days. This incident has added to me belief that we are doing the right thing by moving. I never want to be living that far from a good hospital again.

[tijnebijn]

You must be pushy , just not shout to them and make a scene .

A couple of weeks ago my son also had a very high fever and stomach pain .

Went to the mcCormick , which says he needed an operation ,

after that went to the Ram1 private hospital in Chiangmai , where a doctor told us this was not the case ,

and gave us the wrong medicines for his illness .

In totall we went to 4 doctors with all a different analysis , makes me wonder and think.

At last we went to the local doctor at our Moo bahn and gave the correct antibiotics , 160 baht and

after a day was playing around again .

I can tell you that ' the good hospitals ' are not always that good .

I even can tell the members here , that from our experience and friends , the doctors at especially

the private one , just want to cash you out , making the sickness more bad and severe then it really is .

I think they get a % of the total amount spend ( not sure ) , or their bosses instruct them to do .

I am very sure this very respected doctor knew what was going on , just wanted us to return later

and makes us spend a couple of nights over there .

My experience tells me to follow your guts first and not just follow every doctors advise blindly ,

in one way the same thing as the Op did .

be careful .

[GuestHouse]

Glad to hear your son's health is improved, I don't think there is any greater worry than worry about our children when they are ill.

I think the lesson here is not about being pushy, but about getting the best medical care as early as possible.

We've always gone straight to the international hospitals for all medical issues - its money well spent and a foolish saving to do otherwise.

[vegas]

Sounds like a febrile seizure. My daughter had one while I was at work. Her fever shot up suddenly and she seized for about 10 minutes. We rushed her to Bumrungrad and they bought her fever down with damp towels (rubbing her skin vigourously) and recommended Ibuprofen if she has high fever again.

in Thailand you should be very careful with Ibuprofen if there is any chance the fever is caused by Dengue (better to use Paracetemol if there is ANY chance it is Dengue at all!)

Actually we use baby Tylenol for mild fever and Ibuprofen for high fever as my daughter will be at risk of a febrile seizure every time she has a high fever until she is 5 years old. We saw the paediatrician at Bumrungrad and my ex-colleague also had the same problem with his son until he reached 5 years of age. His son stopped breathing a couple of times during a high fever.

[joanne1]

The last few days have been very difficult for me and my wife. Our young son has been sick and he needed to be taken into hospital. He developed a high fever three nights ago and due to this he had a seizure. I was away at the time as I needed to go to Burma for a border run. I was unable to get back until the next day.

When I got back to the hospital it was a huge shock to see how sick Timmy looked. He was in the middle of a high fever and his face was all puffy and he his eyes were open but he was so quite. It almost tore me apart to see him this way. The hospital was unable to find any reason for his symptoms. I was amazed to find that they hadn't even taken any bloods yet. They wanted to wait and see it the fevers would resolve themselves.

Our local hospital is very basic. Timmy was born there seven months ago and they did a great job, but I wasn't sure they were the best place for him this time. I wanted to move him to the city and to a private hospital. The problem was that it was two hours away by car and I was worried that he might have a seizure again while we were far away from a hospital. In the end we waited until his temperature was falling and moved him.

The local hospital wanted us to wait until the doctor arrived in the hospital, but they couldn't tell us when this would be. I wasn't prepared to wait around for a few more hours for a doctor's letter that wouldn't say much. I though it prudent that we move Timmy while he was having a break in his fever. I basically told them that they couldn't stop me moving my son and that we had already waited three hours for the doctor to arrive. They probably found it shocking that they were having their orders questioned, but I was beyond caring about saving face. I am a trained nurse and know when things aren't been done right.

In the private hospital they immediately took bloods and performed other tests to try and find a cause for his symptoms. They still can't find anything but at least they are looking. Timmy seems to be improving and was fever free for most of the night. It looks like he is on the mend.

While most of the time I think it is wrong for us westerners to be pushy in most cases in Thailand. I think that sometimes it can be of benefit.

Your absolutely right Garro.

I'm a 47 year old mother of 3, and having learned though experience, there are just some times when you need to step in and take charge of the situation. Looking after your children is priority number one for a mother, and don't worry about making someone lose face, even professionals screw things up. Glad to hear your child is on the mend, hope things work out in the end.

[onethailand]

Not pushy at all, Garro - that's the reaction of a parent who wants to take care of his child, doesn't even have to be a farang

Glad to hear your son is better, and hope you find your new home much more comfortable.

[Pepe']

Did they rule out meningitis?

[spasticated]

<br />

The last few days have been very difficult for me and my wife. Our young son has been sick and he needed to be taken into hospital. He developed a high fever three nights ago and due to this he had a seizure. I was away at the time as I needed to go to Burma for a border run. I was unable to get back until the next day. <br /><br />When I got back to the hospital it was a huge shock to see how sick Timmy looked. He was in the middle of a high fever and his face was all puffy and he his eyes were open but he was so quite. It almost tore me apart to see him this way. The hospital was unable to find any reason for his symptoms. I was amazed to find that they hadn't even taken any bloods yet. They wanted to wait and see it the fevers would resolve themselves.<br /><br /><br />Our local hospital is very basic. Timmy was born there seven months ago and they did a great job, but I wasn't sure they were the best place for him this time. I wanted to move him to the city and to a private hospital. The problem was that it was two hours away by car and I was worried that he might have a seizure again while we were far away from a hospital. In the end we waited until his temperature was falling and moved him. <br /><br />The local hospital wanted us to wait until the doctor arrived in the hospital, but they couldn't tell us when this would be. I wasn't prepared to wait around for a few more hours for a doctor's letter that wouldn't say much. I though it prudent that we move Timmy while he was having a break in his fever. I basically told them that they couldn't stop me moving my son and that we had already waited three hours for the doctor to arrive. They probably found it shocking that they were having their orders questioned, but I was beyond caring about saving face. I am a trained nurse and know when things aren't been done right. <br /><br />In the private hospital they immediately took bloods and performed other tests to try and find a cause for his symptoms. They still can't find anything but at least they are looking. Timmy seems to be improving and was fever free for most of the night. It looks like he is on the mend. <br /><br />While most of the time I think it is wrong for us westerners to be pushy in most cases in Thailand. I think that sometimes it can be of benefit.

<br /><br />Your absolutely right Garro.<br />I'm a 47 year old mother of 3, and having learned though experience, there are just some times when you need to step in and take charge of the situation. Looking after your children is priority number one for a mother, and don't worry about making someone lose face, even professionals screw things up. Glad to hear your child is on the mend, hope things work out in the end.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I think the best advice is to always get a 2nd and then a 3rd opinion and use the internet to back up what they are saying especially when it comes to drugs/ My wife has thyroid problem (hyper thyroid) and the doc changed her medication yesterday to a different one and never mentioned that she should avoid becoming pregnant whilst usng it despite the fact she is of child bearing age.

[garro]

Did they rule out meningitis?

That was actually my first worry.

In Ireland, and I believe most of Europe, they now give a meningitis vaccine. They don't do this in Thailand. We were on holiday in Ireland a few months ago and they gave him his first shot. When he went for his most recent shots in Thailand they hadn't even heard of this vaccine. I have arranged for him to get further doses of this when his health is improved.

[Khonwan]

My eldest daughter (now nearly 12) suffered her first “spiking” fever at 6 months of age. My wife called me at my Bangkok office, which was only a couple of minutes away from our house. To see my daughter in a seizure (with eyes rolling) was certainly shocking. I grabbed her and drove to the nearby Carmelite Hospital only a few minutes away. They treated her but also advised me to not waste precious time in the future, but to first bring her temperature down quickly by immersing her in freezing cold water containing ice. I was advised that the danger to her brain was in the very rapid “spiking” temperature rather than the fact of a high temperature.

I followed their advice 6 months later when she suffered another seizure brought about by a spiking fever, but this time upcountry where I now live permanently. I have done so on two other occasions with my youngest daughter (now aged 6).

Holding your baby in such freezing cold ice water for a few minutes takes an awful lot of determined strength in face of their screams of agony but it can be a life saver, especially if you live far away from even the most basic rural hospital as we do.

I immediately followed up on these ice-water baths with Paracetamol before taking my children to a doctor for antibiotics. The doctors have always agreed that this first response is correct.

Meningitis was also my first thought 11 years ago but the cause on that and subsequent occasions was throat infections that had not presented any other symptoms.

[garro]

My eldest daughter (now nearly 12) suffered her first "spiking" fever at 6 months of age. My wife called me at my Bangkok office, which was only a couple of minutes away from our house. To see my daughter in a seizure (with eyes rolling) was certainly shocking. I grabbed her and drove to the nearby Carmelite Hospital only a few minutes away. They treated her but also advised me to not waste precious time in the future, but to first bring her temperature down quickly by immersing her in freezing cold water containing ice. I was advised that the danger to her brain was in the very rapid "spiking" temperature rather than the fact of a high temperature.

I followed their advice 6 months later when she suffered another seizure brought about by a spiking fever, but this time upcountry where I now live permanently. I have done so on two other occasions with my youngest daughter (now aged 6).

Holding your baby in such freezing cold ice water for a few minutes takes an awful lot of determined strength in face of their screams of agony but it can be a life saver, especially if you live far away from even the most basic rural hospital as we do.

I immediately followed up on these ice-water baths with Paracetamol before taking my children to a doctor for antibiotics. The doctors have always agreed that this first response is correct.

Meningitis was also my first thought 11 years ago but the cause on that and subsequent occasions was throat infections that had not presented any other symptoms.

I managed to convince the doctor to provide me with some diazepam in case he has another convulsion. I will make sure that there is always a supply on hand during the next few years. I will be able to give it rectally during any seizure and I will teach my wife to do the same.

[dominator]

I'm really glad that everyones children came out of their fevers ok. Unfortunately, this is one of the down sides to living in a 3rd world country. I do know that it can also happen at 'home', but less likely.

[PadThaiGuy]

If these doctors went to Thai Schools..what are the chances they slept thru class and still got passing grades?

[Scott]

Best of luck to you Garro and to your son. My thoughts are with you. There is nothing more scary than having a very sick child and those little ones can have a fever shoot up so quickly.

[vegas]

My eldest daughter (now nearly 12) suffered her first “spiking” fever at 6 months of age. My wife called me at my Bangkok office, which was only a couple of minutes away from our house. To see my daughter in a seizure (with eyes rolling) was certainly shocking. I grabbed her and drove to the nearby Carmelite Hospital only a few minutes away. They treated her but also advised me to not waste precious time in the future, but to first bring her temperature down quickly by immersing her in freezing cold water containing ice. I was advised that the danger to her brain was in the very rapid “spiking” temperature rather than the fact of a high temperature.

I followed their advice 6 months later when she suffered another seizure brought about by a spiking fever, but this time upcountry where I now live permanently. I have done so on two other occasions with my youngest daughter (now aged 6).

Holding your baby in such freezing cold ice water for a few minutes takes an awful lot of determined strength in face of their screams of agony but it can be a life saver, especially if you live far away from even the most basic rural hospital as we do.

I immediately followed up on these ice-water baths with Paracetamol before taking my children to a doctor for antibiotics. The doctors have always agreed that this first response is correct.

Meningitis was also my first thought 11 years ago but the cause on that and subsequent occasions was throat infections that had not presented any other symptoms.

This is definately the WRONG thing to do. Whaichever hospital told you that is 100% wrong. Check it out at any reputable hospital or even on any medical website. Use lukewarm/room temperature towels and rub the baby down. Really, this is the most BASIC stuff.

[Khonwan]

My eldest daughter (now nearly 12) suffered her first “spiking” fever at 6 months of age. My wife called me at my Bangkok office, which was only a couple of minutes away from our house. To see my daughter in a seizure (with eyes rolling) was certainly shocking. I grabbed her and drove to the nearby Carmelite Hospital only a few minutes away. They treated her but also advised me to not waste precious time in the future, but to first bring her temperature down quickly by immersing her in freezing cold water containing ice. I was advised that the danger to her brain was in the very rapid “spiking” temperature rather than the fact of a high temperature.

I followed their advice 6 months later when she suffered another seizure brought about by a spiking fever, but this time upcountry where I now live permanently. I have done so on two other occasions with my youngest daughter (now aged 6).

Holding your baby in such freezing cold ice water for a few minutes takes an awful lot of determined strength in face of their screams of agony but it can be a life saver, especially if you live far away from even the most basic rural hospital as we do.

I immediately followed up on these ice-water baths with Paracetamol before taking my children to a doctor for antibiotics. The doctors have always agreed that this first response is correct.

Meningitis was also my first thought 11 years ago but the cause on that and subsequent occasions was throat infections that had not presented any other symptoms.

This is definately the WRONG thing to do. Whaichever hospital told you that is 100% wrong. Check it out at any reputable hospital or even on any medical website. Use lukewarm/room temperature towels and rub the baby down. Really, this is the most BASIC stuff.

Thanks vegas. I have Googled this now and fully accept what you've stated. It appears that the advice I was given 11 years ago (by doctors in an international hospital in Sukhumvit 55, where my daughter was kept in overnight) was very old-fashioned and discredited even at that time. Their concern was to prevent brain damage, which I now read is highly unlikely. Indeed, they told me at that time that they could not guarantee that my 6-mth old daughter had not already suffered some brain damage by the seizure.

Rgds

Khonwan

[billd766]

My 3 1/2 year old son was up around 38.7 on Wednesday night so I took him into the bedroom and turned on the a/c and sponged him down. I left him with his grandmother for a while, while I got his Mum from the shop. She did much the same and eventually we took him to the local hospital around 9pm. They gave him some antibiotics and he kept my wife awake in the night sponging him down.

Thursday he got better and yesterday he released all the energy he didn't use when he was poorly.

Today he was fine.

It seems to happen a couple of times a year but it is further apart each time so hopefully he will grow out of it.

[vegas]

Yeah if you read a bit more, they state that febrile seizures are not harmful. But best to avoid them if possible.

[thailand_tom]

my father who is 77 started passing out..took him to the hospital in surin..they put him in intensive care right away..ran tests blood, urine, x-rays, heart, etc..the head of the hospital checked on him all the time and the girls treated him like royalty..even buying him food with their money at the restaurant..which i had to thank them, pay them back and give them money for the next day..i did not want them spending their own money....i though the hospital was excellent and felt very assured of their qualifications..my father..did not want to leave..he was having a great time with all the attention he was getting from the girls. the reason for passing out..very hot in Thailand..he kept shutting off his aircon in his room..made him not want to eat..made him weaker..had to tape up the thermostat.