Ilr Questions

[drummachine]

Hiya All,

my Wife passed her Life in the UK test today, so that changes my ballgame again last minute.

Ok I do not have all 20 Docs needed for the evidence. I gathered some bank letters etc together but they are basically the same and recently dated. Got one off my Doctor stating dates she attended...What can I do? Can I get refused on this after being married and having our son?

Edited March 26, 2008 by drummachine

[Mossfinn]

You wont neccesarily need 20 docs, can you state what you have got.

Moss

[the scouser]

As far as possible, you should have as many documents as you can muster up to the 20 for which they ask, and these should span the entirety of the last two years. You can't submit what you don't have, so send in what you've got and write a covering letter explaining why you can't reach the magic 20. Reinforce the point in your letter that you have a son etc. and include evidence of his birth.

If the worst happens and the application is refused, your wife should have a right of appeal before being required to leave.

Scouse.

[yaketyak]

As far as possible, you should have as many documents as you can muster up to the 20 for which they ask, and these should span the entirety of the last two years. You can't submit what you don't have, so send in what you've got and write a covering letter explaining why you can't reach the magic 20. Reinforce the point in your letter that you have a son etc. and include evidence of his birth.

If the worst happens and the application is refused, your wife should have a right of appeal before being required to leave.

Scouse.

Am i not right in saying that , in the unfortunate event that the application is refused through lack of this magical , and ramdom, 20 documents, then not only would there be a right of appeal but , reassuringly, there would also be given a furthur 2 years leave to remain during which another application for ILR can be made at ANY time? Thus the question of the wife being asked to leave does not really occur , even after a refusal.

[the scouser]

The further two years' leave is only given when someone otherwise meets the requirements of the ILR rules but hasn't met the language/citizenship requirements. If an applicant applies for ILR and fails to demonstrate that they meet the cohbitation criterion, then the BIA may refuse the application outright. That's why the covering letter is important, as that will be the OP's opportunity to explain why the relationship is genuine, although he and his wife do not have the asked-for 20 documents.

However, that's the problem with a tick-box system like this: a genuine couple could potentially be separated because they don't tick the relevant boxes.

Scouse.

[vinny]

Make sure that her application is neither late, nor early.

Edited March 27, 2008 by vinny

[yaketyak]

After making my post yesterday i phoned the Border and Immigration people and asked them if one was unuable to show 20 documents and indeed fell so far short that the application was refused or indeed did not fall so far short but the officer was just in a bad mood and refused because technically he/she can , (at this point he chuckled ... which was hardly reassuring that this doesn't happen from time to time)was i right in assuming that no-one would be asked to leave but a furthur 2 years FLR would be given during which time more documents could be found or created and a new ILR application made ?

He said yes that was what would happen , assuming it failed only on the lack of co-habitation proof and not other things as well, and i repeated it again just to be sure and he said yes again.

Scouse is fairly definate that this is wrong so we can only conclude that the Border and Immigration department are giving out wrong advice.

If i get time today i will try and call again and ask the same question . If i get the same answer as yesterday i will post here. If i get a different answer i will tell them what was said yesterday as its vitally important that their operatives know the correct answer. I will also post that here.

[yaketyak]

After hanging on for ever i finally got through to the BIA. I spoke to a lady and asked the same questions as yesterday.

Her answer was :

1) If you don't have the 20 documents you write a covering letter explaining why (we all know this already) and then the officer will use his discretion to decide . If its a refusal he can either give you another FLR or can refuse outright. There is no real guideance laid down , it really is as arbitary as how the officer feels on the day.

2) if its an outright refusal you can appeal

So there we have it . You may or may not get FLR depending on how the officer feels. I pushed her and pushed her and she was adamant there is no guideance notes , it is down to the mood and feeling of the officer dealing with it and thats that.

Charming system we have isn't it .? She had the nerve to say that if there are compelling and compassionate reasons why the refused applicant should be given a ILR then it may be given , but ...wait for it ... there is no definition of compelling and compassionate reasons and ...you guessed it ...it is up to the mood of the officer on the day !!

I have long thought our system is awful , very impersonal , very uncaring. HOWEVER we mustn't forget that at least we have a system of sorts , and its still far easier for a Thai to become an English citizen than it is for an Englishman to become a Thai one .

[vinny]

A really good covering letter may put the case worker in a good mood.

[drummachine]

I cannot believe they would refuse my Wife, however it seems to occur. I have a few letters from ym Doctors, bank etc. My Wife has a national insurance card and also a nectar card, thats about!

Anyways I will give it ago and see what happens!

[drummachine]

Hiya Guys,

a little update on this thread. The docs I have together are a letter from the local authority, virgin bill, doctors letter stating how long my Wife has attended the surgery, Wifes NI card, Wifes NHS card, Child Benefit letter, dentist appointment card posted, letter from employer about my pension, bank letter for Son, yearly travel insurance doc, Health Protection Agency letter, NI letter, doctors letter for son.

I have also included letters from my self explaining why most bills ect are not in my Wifes name. Also included are PHOTOCOPY of Son's Birth Cert from BKK embassy and Passport, is a copy ok is it better to put the originals?

surely this must help! Some are from 2006, most 2007 and 2008. Any comments welcome....

Edited March 30, 2008 by drummachine

[Eastender]

Just to be sure you realize, the 20 docs should be 10 for each year, split between you both including joint docs/accounts if you have them. Remember, they're trying to catch out cheaters, not make life difficult for genuine couples. They can't admit to what number of docs might be acceptable on the phone as it would then be pointless asking for 20 on the form.

I've got friends who had only the mortgage in joint names, and for other docs probably less than you've listed who were successful. Me and my wife had less than the full 20, but have a daughter and her birth cert details and child benefit letter which must help greatly. Maybe you should call and check again in case they need the original of the birth cert as I can't remember if I gave a copy or not. From experience of myself and friends, I think your list of docs is sufficient.

[drummachine]

There is no way I have 5 docs from each year. Most are from 2007 and 2008 as I said in my name not my Wifes. The fact is its impossible for me to do whhat they ask. Covering letters is my only option!

Thanks All

Just to be sure you realize, the 20 docs should be 10 for each year, split between you both including joint docs/accounts if you have them. Remember, they're trying to catch out cheaters, not make life difficult for genuine couples. They can't admit to what number of docs might be acceptable on the phone as it would then be pointless asking for 20 on the form.

I've got friends who had only the mortgage in joint names, and for other docs probably less than you've listed who were successful. Me and my wife had less than the full 20, but have a daughter and her birth cert details and child benefit letter which must help greatly. Maybe you should call and check again in case they need the original of the birth cert as I can't remember if I gave a copy or not. From experience of myself and friends, I think your list of docs is sufficient.

[drummachine]

Hi again,

They cannot ever take my Wife or my Son off me. Lets see them try....

Just to be sure you realize, the 20 docs should be 10 for each year, split between you both including joint docs/accounts if you have them. Remember, they're trying to catch out cheaters, not make life difficult for genuine couples. They can't admit to what number of docs might be acceptable on the phone as it would then be pointless asking for 20 on the form.

I've got friends who had only the mortgage in joint names, and for other docs probably less than you've listed who were successful. Me and my wife had less than the full 20, but have a daughter and her birth cert details and child benefit letter which must help greatly. Maybe you should call and check again in case they need the original of the birth cert as I can't remember if I gave a copy or not. From experience of myself and friends, I think your list of docs is sufficient.

Edited March 31, 2008 by drummachine

[yaketyak]

Hi again,

They cannot ever take my Wife or my Son off me. Lets see them try....

Just to be sure you realize, the 20 docs should be 10 for each year, split between you both including joint docs/accounts if you have them. Remember, they're trying to catch out cheaters, not make life difficult for genuine couples. They can't admit to what number of docs might be acceptable on the phone as it would then be pointless asking for 20 on the form.

I've got friends who had only the mortgage in joint names, and for other docs probably less than you've listed who were successful. Me and my wife had less than the full 20, but have a daughter and her birth cert details and child benefit letter which must help greatly. Maybe you should call and check again in case they need the original of the birth cert as I can't remember if I gave a copy or not. From experience of myself and friends, I think your list of docs is sufficient.

drummachine,

i can understand your emotion . Its a human reaction. I too have to put my spouse through the rigours of ILR quite soon.

However keep a level head . Its no good thinking "they can't separate us ..i won't let it happen etc ".

The fact is they can if they want ... not easily but they can . And don't forget , you are dealing with people who choose that job. They love it and pursue it with vigour. Bit like traffic wardens...they love it. However , i'm sure it won't come to that.

[the scouser]

The reality is that the 20-document stipulation is an invention of the BIA itself: it simply does not feature in the legislation which simply states that the two parties have to establish to the balance of probabilities that they have been living together. In the light of this I don't think the OP will have any difficulties.

Scouse.

[vinny]

They cannot ever take my Wife or my Son off me. Lets see them try....

See also ILR in Person at PEO Office (members only).