Govt Opens The Door To More Foreign Investors

[george]

CB Richard Ellis Urges 'Welcoming' Initiatives For Foreign Investors In Thai Property

BANGKOK: -- (PRWEB): -- Leading Thailand's real estate service provider CB Richard Ellis is urging the country's newly-elected democratic government to introduce "a more welcoming policy" for foreign property investors.

Thailand's return to democracy following 15 months of military rule has already "sent a clear and positive message" to the property market, said David Simister, Chairman of CB Richard Ellis Thailand.

"We are seeing a significant number of deals closing during the high season in Phuket and more visitors to our sole agency projects," he said.

As new Prime Minister Mr Samak Sundaravej and his People's Power Party (PPP) cabinet draw-up policies for the new administration, he said: "CB Richard Ellis would now like to see government initiatives toward a more open and welcoming policy for foreign property investors."

The new government has already taken a step to remove the 30% capital control which is expected to help bring back foreign investments.

The approval of the new tax incentive package is also an encouraging move for the property market. This is expected to lift market sentiments on both the demand and supply side. Property Transfer fee will be reduced from 2% to 0.01% and Specific Business Tax for property transactions will be reduced from 3% to 0.1%.

Confidence in the market could be further strengthened by longer lease terms, extending from the current 30 years to 90 years, he said.

"The government should also consider introducing business lending to foreign property investors," said Mr. Simister.

"Such policies would allow Thailand to keep up with its emerging neighbours, Vietnam and Malaysia, in terms of property purchase terms."

"Malaysia offers 99 year leases and under Decree 84, Vietnam now offers extended lease terms of 70 years.

"Policies such as these could play a significant role in bringing back confidence to the market as the incoming government focuses on returning the country to economic health and tackling its key issues.

"It is up to the new government to deliver clear and transparent policies to draw back investor confidence to the country."

CB Richard Ellis is confident of a more positive outlook for the Thai property market this year than in 2007.

"The general election is not a miracle cure for Thailand's problems but it puts the country on a path to recovery," said Mr Simister.

Despite recent political setback, CB Richard Ellis noted the Bangkok luxury residential market still appreciated last year.

"High-end condominiums in prime CBD locations performed consistently well," said Ms Aliwassa Pathnadabutr, Managing Director of CB Richard Ellis Thailand.

Record high prices were reached with the launch of Sukhothai Residences, fetching over THB 343,000 per square metre.

In Thailand resorts, land prices continue to rise in 2007 and transaction values picked up in Q4, 2007. Phuket is the most active resort property market in Thailand showing a 59% increase in transaction value q-o-q.

Since the December election interest from foreign investors has heightened.

"Established developments such as Trisara, Royal Phuket Marina, Laguna and Banyan Tree have seen a particularly active high season," said Mr. Simister.

Newly launched projects such as Saisawan and Andara "have also been successful".

A similar trend is reflected in Samui with "a clear uplift" in viewings and purchases of resort properties.

CB Richard Ellis expects further demand in Samui with increased flight schedules.

"The Samui market for luxury villas is catching up with Phuket, with the arrival of international hotel brands like W, Conrad, Four Seasons and Park Hyatt attracting quality tourism," she said.

"Samui has traditionally been a low-key beach destination, but this is changing rapidly. Many high net worth investors are now interested."

As the Treasury Department's recent land value appraisal showed land values in Phuket have increased by an average 160 per cent over the past four years, with Samui prices following closely, Mr Simister added: "The continued increase in land prices on Thailand's coast indicate the strength of the market and its long term prospects.

"The much anticipated general election has now taken place. It is up to the new government to deliver clear and transparent policies to draw back investors' confidence to the country."

--PRweb 2008-03-31

[Naam]

^ Yes on a positive note, there are changes to the company structure, though not yet gazetted(?), which will simplify matter going forward. I'm not 100% sure if they will be retrospective, or if to take advantage one as to reform a company. Key is the reduction in sponsors from 7 to 3, {though no change in 51/49 of course} and associated approvals for the issuance of work permits to those holding 'retirement' visas.

As I wrote in another thread, this "good news" do not solve the problem. At all.

Before, you had 6 thai shareholders with 51 % (+ you at 49), after you will have... 2, but with still 51 %.

Basically, you just decrease the number of nominees... Improvement ? I'm not sure.

of course it's an improvement. in case of trouble you save bullets

[spencerdharmagrafix]

If foreigners are going to be allowed to own the lions share of a factoring company, does this mean that they will have ultimate control on Thailand's debtors and that for those in Thailand who owe money either for goods or services may be directly accountable to foreign investors (factoring companies) for their payments of debt owed.

For example, a Thai purchases some land with a bank loan. The Thai for whatever reason cannot complete payment of the loan, so the bank sells the debt to a majority foreign owned factoring company. The end result is that the land falls into the ownership of a foreign owned company.

Wasn't this the same scenario why Mr Thaksin was thrown out of office in the first place?

OK, can someone please tell me if I have got the above correct or not?

i think factoring applies to businesses with an ongoing revenue stream which sells its rights to the revenue stream for some cash upfront, with a discount rate factored into the upfront payment. the factoring company essentially buys the accounts receivables and are taking a risk on the business and quality of its debtors. factoring applies to trading concerns, whereas for property deals, a similar type of fund raising would involve asset securitisation whereupon the funding party would hold a sort of mortgage on the entire asset with an unrealised income stream, like a sort of mezzanine financing, and this would require it to have other banking/finance licenses which is actually an entirely different kettle of fish.

The restricted business act is irrelevant anyway such as the making of buddha images..if you open a 2 million baht company then you are restricted to the list outside of annex 3 but if you invest 3 million or more then you can do any of the restricted business activities

[Yatsam]

If foreigners are going to be allowed to own the lions share of a factoring company, does this mean that they will have ultimate control on Thailand's debtors and that for those in Thailand who owe money either for goods or services may be directly accountable to foreign investors (factoring companies) for their payments of debt owed.

For example, a Thai purchases some land with a bank loan. The Thai for whatever reason cannot complete payment of the loan, so the bank sells the debt to a majority foreign owned factoring company. The end result is that the land falls into the ownership of a foreign owned company.

Wasn't this the same scenario why Mr Thaksin was thrown out of office in the first place?

OK, can someone please tell me if I have got the above correct or not?

i think factoring applies to businesses with an ongoing revenue stream which sells its rights to the revenue stream for some cash upfront, with a discount rate factored into the upfront payment. the factoring company essentially buys the accounts receivables and are taking a risk on the business and quality of its debtors. factoring applies to trading concerns, whereas for property deals, a similar type of fund raising would involve asset securitisation whereupon the funding party would hold a sort of mortgage on the entire asset with an unrealised income stream, like a sort of mezzanine financing, and this would require it to have other banking/finance licenses which is actually an entirely different kettle of fish.

The restricted business act is irrelevant anyway such as the making of buddha images..if you open a 2 million baht company then you are restricted to the list outside of annex 3 but if you invest 3 million or more then you can do any of the restricted business activities

What does it mean "any of the restricted business"? Such as what?

[cclub75]

f you open a 2 million baht company then you are restricted to the list outside of annex 3 but if you invest 3 million or more then you can do any of the restricted business activities

Wrong. You are misinformed. Or you confuse with the BOI (incentives for export orientated companies).

The content of the List 1, List 2 and List 3 have nothing to do with the capital of the company.

Each list has its own "criterias".

List 1 : "The businesses not permitted for foreigners to operate due to special reasons:"

List 2 : "The businesses related to the national safety or security or affecting arts and culture, tradition, folk handicraft or natural resource and environment."

List 3 : "The business which Thai nationals are not yet ready to compete with foreigners:"

Text of the FBA here.

[Ga-gai]

I don't know about you guys, but...

I believe the restriction for foreigners to actually own land in this country, is a blessing and a very good rule that should never be abandoned. I'm a foreigner myself and been living here for 8 years now.

Judging from the mentality (and intelligence?) from poor farmers, this country could otherwise easily be sold out to foreigners due to narrow way of thinking. A poor wouldn't bother or even realize that by selling his land to a foreigner, he is actually bit by bit giving up his peoples sovereignty over their own country. I know you guy's doesn't like the way this country is protected, at the same time in other discussions making fun over how stupid the thais can be in curtain situations. There you have it all...!

A future scenario: All of the attractive land properties have been bought up by foreigners, which in return ridicules the natives for being stupid. Sounds more like when the colonization were at it's peek world over, 100+ years ago. Could it happen? I'm sure it could. They richest thais in this country today, are actually people from Chinese families. Not originally thais then.

The government should ease up the investment climate, for sure. But they must, at the same time, also balance the ease for foreigners against protecting the country from being sold out. Like it or not, but this country belongs to the thais...!

Edited March 31, 2008 by Ga-gai

[suthnuh]

Since TiT, I will definitely ere on the side of caution.

What everyone here seems to be forgetting is the FBA as it stands forces foreign corporations to incorporate as a Thai company... which means 51% ownership by Thais... which means a Board of Directors composed of a majority of Thais... which means Thai "persons of influence" will have their influence and power and income increased by MNC's that place them on the BoD.

It's not in the best interest of the Thai "powers-that-be" to put a halt to that practice.

[suthnuh]

Since TiT, I will definitely ere on the side of caution.

What everyone here seems to be forgetting is the FBA as it stands forces foreign corporations to incorporate as a Thai company... which means 51% ownership by Thais... which means a Board of Directors composed of a majority of Thais... which means Thai "persons of influence" will have their influence and power and income increased by MNC's that place them on the BoD.

It's not in the best interest of the Thai "powers-that-be" to put a halt to that practice.

(sorry folks. I don't know why this message posted twice) :-/

Edited March 31, 2008 by suthnuh

[samran]

If you think this Government, which incidentally was elected on Nationalist and Populist policies, will do anything other that pay lip service to the Foreign business community in Thailand then you are sadly mistaken.

A major shift in policy this certainly is not.

As to the misplaced optimism of some posters hoping this will lead to a relaxing of the visa and residency laws I hate to burst your bubble but that ain't gonna happen either. Bear in mind it was the Thaksin administration that tightened visa and residency regulations long before the coup. Expect it to get more difficult to remain here, not easier!

except for your last sentence, I absolutely agree.

As for staying here 'tightened' is a relative term. Swings and roundabouts. The 40K requirement - per couple - is a good one which has made things easier than they used to be. Not ideal, but better than before.....

[Odysseus221]

If foreigners are going to be allowed to own the lions share of a factoring company, does this mean that they will have ultimate control on Thailand's debtors and that for those in Thailand who owe money either for goods or services may be directly accountable to foreign investors (factoring companies) for their payments of debt owed.

For example, a Thai purchases some land with a bank loan. The Thai for whatever reason cannot complete payment of the loan, so the bank sells the debt to a majority foreign owned factoring company. The end result is that the land falls into the ownership of a foreign owned company.

Wasn't this the same scenario why Mr Thaksin was thrown out of office in the first place?

OK, can someone please tell me if I have got the above correct or not?

i think factoring applies to businesses with an ongoing revenue stream which sells its rights to the revenue stream for some cash upfront, with a discount rate factored into the upfront payment. the factoring company essentially buys the accounts receivables and are taking a risk on the business and quality of its debtors. factoring applies to trading concerns, whereas for property deals, a similar type of fund raising would involve asset securitisation whereupon the funding party would hold a sort of mortgage on the entire asset with an unrealised income stream, like a sort of mezzanine financing, and this would require it to have other banking/finance licenses which is actually an entirely different kettle of fish.

[Odysseus221]

Yes, it's a small step, but the big shoe to drop is loosening the whole idea that Thais must control the company. That little phantom is still lurking out there and hasn't been dealt with.

These lists are there to protect the rich oligarch families from foreign competition - have no doubt. You must have a Thai "partner".

If you are Sheraton or Hilton or whomever and you want to open a big hotel, what are you going to do? You go to the rich 'hotel' family. If you want to open a chain of fast-food restaurants you go to the rich 'restaurant' family. Now a way around this is to do what Heneke did - become a Thai Citizen, then YOU become the rich Thai family. Of course to do that I reckon you have to do a deal with the rich family that controls 'Citizenship'!

Well, I have some insights into this whole issue. Firstly, regarding the idea of Thai partners, who in their right mind would want to go to this country and open a business without knowing anything about the language and customs and people? It is certainly a recipe for failure. Trust me on that. Opening businesses in Thailand is not necessarily a core competency which is a requirement for success; I think most experts would tend to agree with that statement.

Secondly, regarding one step forward and so forth, the Thais are like that--that is their cultural idiosyncracy, if you allow me this choice of words. That is the whole idea behind a Thai partnership. Next, these people are genuinely fun and good people, I would want to be with them in any business endeavor. But they have another part to their culture: their system seems to allow taking advantage of foreigners and this is from the top down. It ain't America but if you get by these things, it is a great place to be. I had an especially pernicious time with a Bangkok attorney before I realized they didn't know what they were talking about in regards to Chonburi law...

[thaigene2]

^ Yes on a positive note, there are changes to the company structure, though not yet gazetted(?), which will simplify matter going forward. I'm not 100% sure if they will be retrospective, or if to take advantage one as to reform a company. Key is the reduction in sponsors from 7 to 3, {though no change in 51/49 of course} and associated approvals for the issuance of work permits to those holding 'retirement' visas.

As I wrote in another thread, this "good news" do not solve the problem. At all.

Before, you had 6 thai shareholders with 51 % (+ you at 49), after you will have... 2, but with still 51 %.

Basically, you just decrease the number of nominees... Improvement ? I'm not sure.

Yes I agree with cclub75. As I think I posted earlier as well, this is actually worse for the foreigner in many cases. Before the foreigner could do side deals with three Thai shareholders to maintain control of 'his' company. He could effectively play these guys off against each other. You may say 'well he only needs to get one Thai on side now' and that may work if the thai is your wife, but otherwise - the foreigner may have a harder time - not easier. If the two thais decide to do a dirty on him - it's game over for the foreign financier..

[nick2k]

bottomline. a county can nationalize any foreign properties whenever they want - like hugo chavez did with the oil wells in venezuela recently. so, the issue of thailand being sold out is pure bullshit.

personally, I don't think america should be exporting their factories and their jobs overseas.

look at what happened when we built a pharmaceutical factory over here in thailand.. we teach them how to make the drugs, and they come back at us with compulsory licenses. talk about stupid. and get this, thailand could still take our factories that our stupid corporations build here - WHENEVER they want.

we should make the products whatever they are in the usa. and sell them overseas. that way, no one can screw us. they either buy at our prices, or not at all.

[thaigene2]

bottomline. a county can nationalize any foreign properties whenever they want - like hugo chavez did with the oil wells in venezuela recently. so, the issue of thailand being sold out is pure bullshit.

personally, I don't think america should be exporting their factories and their jobs overseas.

look at what happened when we built a pharmaceutical factory over here in thailand.. we teach them how to make the drugs, and they come back at us with compulsory licenses. talk about stupid. and get this, thailand could still take our factories that our stupid corporations build here - WHENEVER they want.

we should make the products whatever they are in the usa. and sell them overseas. that way, no one can screw us. they either buy at our prices, or not at all.

Think so? I don't.

They'd make 'your' products anyway - for much cheaper - then export them to your good 'ol USA, where your countrymen and women would buy them like hotcakes - just like they're doing now. That's why your country's going broke - with no money in the bank a big house worth less today than it was yesterday. America is waking up to the fact that good 'ol American know-how works when building space shuttles - but less so when producing widgets that any idiot can produce - but probably for one-tenth of the cost if produced overseas. If you don't have really special skill your US passport is about as valuable than a Pakistani one. In other words, you're 'low-net-worth.

So blame yourself - all the rest of the world did was comply and feed your foolish consumerism rammed down your throats by endless American movies with 'product placement'. The Wall family and others like them got rich selling you a bigger TV set that you didn't need yesterday and won't want tomorrow.

So go ahead and make those products in the USA - I'll exercise my option - and your offer: to not to buy from you at all.

Edited April 1, 2008 by thaigene2

[mellow1]

bottomline. a county can nationalize any foreign properties whenever they want - like hugo chavez did with the oil wells in venezuela recently. so, the issue of thailand being sold out is pure bullshit.

personally, I don't think america should be exporting their factories and their jobs overseas.

look at what happened when we built a pharmaceutical factory over here in thailand.. we teach them how to make the drugs, and they come back at us with compulsory licenses. talk about stupid. and get this, thailand could still take our factories that our stupid corporations build here - WHENEVER they want.

we should make the products whatever they are in the usa. and sell them overseas. that way, no one can screw us. they either buy at our prices, or not at all.

Couldn't agree more.

[mellow1]

bottomline. a county can nationalize any foreign properties whenever they want - like hugo chavez did with the oil wells in venezuela recently. so, the issue of thailand being sold out is pure bullshit.

personally, I don't think america should be exporting their factories and their jobs overseas.

look at what happened when we built a pharmaceutical factory over here in thailand.. we teach them how to make the drugs, and they come back at us with compulsory licenses. talk about stupid. and get this, thailand could still take our factories that our stupid corporations build here - WHENEVER they want.

we should make the products whatever they are in the usa. and sell them overseas. that way, no one can screw us. they either buy at our prices, or not at all.

Think so? I don't.

They'd make 'your' products anyway - for much cheaper - then export them to your good 'ol USA, where your countrymen and women would buy them like hotcakes - just like they're doing now. That's why your country's going broke - with no money in the bank a big house worth less today than it was yesterday. America is waking up to the fact that good 'ol American know-how works when building space shuttles - but less so when producing widgets that any idiot can produce - but probably for one-tenth of the cost if produced overseas. If you don't have really special skill your US passport is about as valuable than a Pakistani one. In other words, you're 'low-net-worth.

So blame yourself - all the rest of the world did was comply and feed your foolish consumerism rammed down your throats by endless American movies with 'product placement'. The Wall family and others like them got rich selling you a bigger TV set that you didn't need yesterday and won't want tomorrow.

So go ahead and make those products in the USA - I'll exercise my option - and your offer: to not to buy from you at all.

Hope you don't feel bad that you won't be missed, I know that you will be able to buy a similar product from the Chinese.

[wintermute]

bottomline. a county can nationalize any foreign properties whenever they want - like hugo chavez did with the oil wells in venezuela recently. so, the issue of thailand being sold out is pure bullshit.

personally, I don't think america should be exporting their factories and their jobs overseas.

look at what happened when we built a pharmaceutical factory over here in thailand.. we teach them how to make the drugs, and they come back at us with compulsory licenses. talk about stupid. and get this, thailand could still take our factories that our stupid corporations build here - WHENEVER they want.

we should make the products whatever they are in the usa. and sell them overseas. that way, no one can screw us. they either buy at our prices, or not at all.

Think so? I don't.

They'd make 'your' products anyway - for much cheaper - then export them to your good 'ol USA, where your countrymen and women would buy them like hotcakes - just like they're doing now. That's why your country's going broke - with no money in the bank a big house worth less today than it was yesterday. America is waking up to the fact that good 'ol American know-how works when building space shuttles - but less so when producing widgets that any idiot can produce - but probably for one-tenth of the cost if produced overseas. If you don't have really special skill your US passport is about as valuable than a Pakistani one. In other words, you're 'low-net-worth.

So blame yourself - all the rest of the world did was comply and feed your foolish consumerism rammed down your throats by endless American movies with 'product placement'. The Wall family and others like them got rich selling you a bigger TV set that you didn't need yesterday and won't want tomorrow.

So go ahead and make those products in the USA - I'll exercise my option - and your offer: to not to buy from you at all.

It's always amusing when you have a thread about business and some looney tune has to come in with his anti-American diatribe thus revealing his ignorance of business, economics, and culture all at the same time.

First of all I don't even know where to begin with you because the black hole of ignorance is pretty deep but start out by reading up on what comparative advantage is. Then read up on subprime banking and credit contraction. None of it is limited to just the U.S. The western world in general will be going through correction as emerging markets come forward. The scales are just rebalancing in the world and there is some belt tightening and adjusting in the intermediate term before things move forward again.

[distortedlink]

I don't know about you guys, but...

I believe the restriction for foreigners to actually own land in this country, is a blessing and a very good rule that should never be abandoned. I'm a foreigner myself and been living here for 8 years now.

Judging from the mentality (and intelligence?) from poor farmers, this country could otherwise easily be sold out to foreigners due to narrow way of thinking. A poor wouldn't bother or even realize that by selling his land to a foreigner, he is actually bit by bit giving up his peoples sovereignty over their own country. I know you guy's doesn't like the way this country is protected, at the same time in other discussions making fun over how stupid the thais can be in curtain situations. There you have it all...!

A future scenario: All of the attractive land properties have been bought up by foreigners, which in return ridicules the natives for being stupid. Sounds more like when the colonization were at it's peek world over, 100+ years ago. Could it happen? I'm sure it could. They richest thais in this country today, are actually people from Chinese families. Not originally thais then.

The government should ease up the investment climate, for sure. But they must, at the same time, also balance the ease for foreigners against protecting the country from being sold out. Like it or not, but this country belongs to the thais...!

100% AGREED.

I personally know of one Farang business entrepreneur living here who is presently creating an electrical factory and warehouse project in the North. He has already. destroyed exclusive wild life environments, land locked poor peoples land and built warehouses within one metre to residential homes of Thais and other Farangs, all with the blessing of the BOI. His attitude is, I am rich, have other Farang backers and can do whatever we like in Thailand. His ploy is to destroy the environments of residential communities by turning areas into industrial sites rendering residential real estate unsaleable, than make a purchase offer to the desperate owners for a knock down price.

Many of the bars, massage parlours, restaurants, hotels, tour companies and large supermarket chains in Chiang Mai are controlled by Farangs, either up front or behind the scenes. I am sure this is becoming the norm in other areas of Thailand.

Thailand is a wonderful country for Western retirees, mostly because the cost of living here is lower than in Western countries with almost first world environments and standards.

Begin allowing real estate, services & goods to fall under foreign control than prices and costs will rise, plus the charm and the community atmosphere of doing business and using services in Thailand will disappear, destroying the magic of Thailand, what has become a haven for retirees and for those who wish to live an alternative lifestyle to that of the West.

I personally would like to see a reverse of these new laws, putting more restrictions on Farangs owning real estate and businesses in Thailand.

Edited April 1, 2008 by distortedlink

[mellow1]

I don't know about you guys, but...

I believe the restriction for foreigners to actually own land in this country, is a blessing and a very good rule that should never be abandoned. I'm a foreigner myself and been living here for 8 years now.

Judging from the mentality (and intelligence?) from poor farmers, this country could otherwise easily be sold out to foreigners due to narrow way of thinking. A poor wouldn't bother or even realize that by selling his land to a foreigner, he is actually bit by bit giving up his peoples sovereignty over their own country. I know you guy's doesn't like the way this country is protected, at the same time in other discussions making fun over how stupid the thais can be in curtain situations. There you have it all...!

A future scenario: All of the attractive land properties have been bought up by foreigners, which in return ridicules the natives for being stupid. Sounds more like when the colonization were at it's peek world over, 100+ years ago. Could it happen? I'm sure it could. They richest thais in this country today, are actually people from Chinese families. Not originally thais then.

The government should ease up the investment climate, for sure. But they must, at the same time, also balance the ease for foreigners against protecting the country from being sold out. Like it or not, but this country belongs to the thais...!

100% AGREED.

I personally know of one Farang business entrepreneur living here who is presently creating an electrical factory and warehouse project in the North. He has already. destroyed exclusive wild life environments, land locked poor peoples land and built warehouses within one metre to residential homes of Thais and other Farangs, all with the blessing of the BOI. His attitude is, I am rich, have other Farang backers and can do whatever we like in Thailand. His ploy is to destroy the environments of residential communities by turning areas into industrial sites rendering residential real estate unsaleable, than make a purchase offer to the desperate owners for a knock down price.

Many of the bars, massage parlours, restaurants, hotels, tour companies and large supermarket chains in Chiang Mai are controlled by Farangs, either up front or behind the scenes. I am sure this is becoming the norm in other areas of Thailand.

Thailand is a wonderful country for Western retirees, mostly because the cost of living here is lower than in Western countries with almost first world environments and standards.

Begin allowing real estate, services & goods to fall under foreign control than prices and costs will rise, plus the charm and the community atmosphere of doing business and using services in Thailand will disappear, destroying the magic of Thailand, what has become a haven for retirees and for those who wish to live an alternative lifestyle to that of the West.

I personally would like to see a reverse of these new laws, putting more restrictions on Farangs owning real estate and businesses in Thailand.

I especially want to see such a law in effect in my own country, with identical visa requirements, and benefits as offered to us here.

[longway]

I especially want to see such a law in effect in my own country, with identical visa requirements, and benefits as offered to us here.

so thais should be allowed into the usa under visa exempt status?

what kind of beaurocratic nightmare are you tying to dream up? where do you end up, every country in the world scrabbling to match the visa requirements for every other country.

[mellow1]

I especially want to see such a law in effect in my own country, with identical visa requirements, and benefits as offered to us here.

so thais should be allowed into the usa under visa exempt status?

what kind of beaurocratic nightmare are you tying to dream up? where do you end up, every country in the world scrabbling to match the visa requirements for every other country.

That's what computers can be used for other than forums.

[Naam]

I especially want to see such a law in effect in my own country, with identical visa requirements, and benefits as offered to us here.

so thais should be allowed into the usa under visa exempt status?

what kind of beaurocratic nightmare are you tying to dream up? where do you end up, every country in the world scrabbling to match the visa requirements for every other country.

you end up at reality because that "tit for tat" visa procedure is the done thing of the last two decades.

[juggernaut]

"Yes I agree with cclub75. As I think I posted earlier as well, this is actually worse for the foreigner in many cases. Before the foreigner could do side deals with three Thai shareholders to maintain control of 'his' company. He could effectively play these guys off against each other. You may say 'well he only needs to get one Thai on side now' and that may work if the thai is your wife, but otherwise - the foreigner may have a harder time - not easier. If the two thais decide to do a dirty on him - it's game over for the foreign financier.."

Don't forget the change is in the minimum number of shareholders. You can still have 7 if that is what you really want, or 77, or 777.

[longway]

I especially want to see such a law in effect in my own country, with identical visa requirements, and benefits as offered to us here.

so thais should be allowed into the usa under visa exempt status?

what kind of beaurocratic nightmare are you tying to dream up? where do you end up, every country in the world scrabbling to match the visa requirements for every other country.

you end up at reality because that "tit for tat" visa procedure is the done thing of the last two decades.

its done to a certain extent, and it just ends up being a pointless petty red tape excercise that serves no purpose. why the hel_l would the usa want to change a system thats works that it chose for itself just so a few long stay tourists dont have to do a border run every 3 months. alot more sympathy for the ones who are married and want to make thailand their home, but why should other people have to suffer because you are inconvinienced?

would getting rid of the green card system be good for the usa or not? what's best for the usa is the real question.

That's what computers can be used for other than forums.

this bit of nonsense only highlights the limited faculties and imagination of the poster who to comes up with a solution like the above for what he considers a major problem.

Edited April 1, 2008 by longway

[thaigene2]

bottomline. a county can nationalize any foreign properties whenever they want - like hugo chavez did with the oil wells in venezuela recently. so, the issue of thailand being sold out is pure bullshit.

personally, I don't think america should be exporting their factories and their jobs overseas.

look at what happened when we built a pharmaceutical factory over here in thailand.. we teach them how to make the drugs, and they come back at us with compulsory licenses. talk about stupid. and get this, thailand could still take our factories that our stupid corporations build here - WHENEVER they want.

we should make the products whatever they are in the usa. and sell them overseas. that way, no one can screw us. they either buy at our prices, or not at all.

Think so? I don't.

They'd make 'your' products anyway - for much cheaper - then export them to your good 'ol USA, where your countrymen and women would buy them like hotcakes - just like they're doing now. That's why your country's going broke - with no money in the bank a big house worth less today than it was yesterday. America is waking up to the fact that good 'ol American know-how works when building space shuttles - but less so when producing widgets that any idiot can produce - but probably for one-tenth of the cost if produced overseas. If you don't have really special skill your US passport is about as valuable than a Pakistani one. In other words, you're 'low-net-worth.

So blame yourself - all the rest of the world did was comply and feed your foolish consumerism rammed down your throats by endless American movies with 'product placement'. The Wall family and others like them got rich selling you a bigger TV set that you didn't need yesterday and won't want tomorrow.

So go ahead and make those products in the USA - I'll exercise my option - and your offer: to not to buy from you at all.

It's always amusing when you have a thread about business and some looney tune has to come in with his anti-American diatribe thus revealing his ignorance of business, economics, and culture all at the same time.

First of all I don't even know where to begin with you because the black hole of ignorance is pretty deep but start out by reading up on what comparative advantage is. Then read up on subprime banking and credit contraction. None of it is limited to just the U.S. The western world in general will be going through correction as emerging markets come forward. The scales are just rebalancing in the world and there is some belt tightening and adjusting in the intermediate term before things move forward again.

It's not anti-American - it's anti-commercialism. Get it now? Or should I start somewhere else with you?

[cclub75]

Begin allowing real estate, services & goods to fall under foreign control than prices and costs will rise, plus the charm and the community atmosphere of doing business and using services in Thailand will disappear, destroying the magic of Thailand, what has become a haven for retirees and for those who wish to live an alternative lifestyle to that of the West.

It's exactly the opposite : prices of services are high because of a lack of real competition.

What brought Tesco and Carrefour ? Competition of course. Real one. Do you pay less or more in those supermarkets, compare to the small shops ?

As for "destroying the magic of Thailand", thai people do not need us to do it.

Organic products, eco tourism, conservation, sustainable development, are all ideas and concept... brought by westerners. Absolutly not by most of the thais, who couldn't care less about it.

[thaigene2]

What brought Tesco and Carrefour ? Competition of course. Real one. Do you pay less or more in those supermarkets, compare to the small shops ?

I'd go a step further and say compare to the big shops too. Ever looked at the price of something in Central Department Store or Emporium then checked out EXACTLY the same thing in Tesco or Carrefour? Why are the latter stores always so much cheaper?

Answer? They are not part of the Thai "cartel" (don't sue me now, I use the term loosely!) that is run by the Thai family Oligarchs (there are only two families for those who follow these things that own Central, Robinsons, Big-C, Tops, Emporium, Paragon and some others - The Mall is in there somewhere too). In fact, you'll notice these 'foreign' companies like Tesco and Carrefour (which of course are Thai really as they must have Thai majnority ownership) have no real advantage but to price lower than the Oligarchs - so they do. As cclub75 said it's 'competition' - real competition in Thailand for a change.

The UK used to be like this too. And not that long ago. If you needed a toothbrush - you could buy it from Boots or Boots. Either way it was about three times the price in any other developed country.

Again, the Oligarchs and their friends in the Old Family Political Party are supporting the End Game right now in what is becoming increasingly unstable politics yet again between the Old and the New - Can't you see it coming?

[Ga-gai]

Begin allowing real estate, services & goods to fall under foreign control than prices and costs will rise, plus the charm and the community atmosphere of doing business and using services in Thailand will disappear, destroying the magic of Thailand, what has become a haven for retirees and for those who wish to live an alternative lifestyle to that of the West.

It's exactly the opposite : prices of services are high because of a lack of real competition.

What brought Tesco and Carrefour ? Competition of course. Real one. Do you pay less or more in those supermarkets, compare to the small shops ?

As for "destroying the magic of Thailand", thai people do not need us to do it.

Organic products, eco tourism, conservation, sustainable development, are all ideas and concept... brought by westerners. Absolutly not by most of the thais, who couldn't care less about it.

Sounds like the more commercial a country gets, the more happy people will get!

-NOT! The country will lose it's soul, period!

When Tesco and Carrefour have replaced all the local small and medium sized markets around, how are the village families that used to sell vegetables, meat and other stuff, supposed to get their money from? Not from the owners and shareholders of Tesco and Carrefour! It's the same problem in Europe and US, when companies like Wallmart makes it fruitless to run your own small shop in the same area.

I do prefer to pay a couple of extra baht for my vegatables in order to keep the town a living place and the families being able to send their kids to school.

Hey... Didn't we come here just because we were tired of all the commercialism back in our own countries?

Support your local dealer!

If you settled down here in LOS -ONLY- because your retirement pension couldn't cover to settle down in Florida... Well then... I'm sorry for you. This is not US and certainly not Disney world! The charm of this country is that it is not like where we came from. If you're not satisfied with that, then you're in the wrong place.

LOS - Love it or lose it!

Edited April 1, 2008 by Ga-gai

[mellow1]

I especially want to see such a law in effect in my own country, with identical visa requirements, and benefits as offered to us here.

so thais should be allowed into the usa under visa exempt status?

what kind of beaurocratic nightmare are you tying to dream up? where do you end up, every country in the world scrabbling to match the visa requirements for every other country.

you end up at reality because that "tit for tat" visa procedure is the done thing of the last two decades.

its done to a certain extent, and it just ends up being a pointless petty red tape excercise that serves no purpose. why the hel_l would the usa want to change a system thats works that it chose for itself just so a few long stay tourists dont have to do a border run every 3 months. alot more sympathy for the ones who are married and want to make thailand their home, but why should other people have to suffer because you are inconvinienced?

would getting rid of the green card system be good for the usa or not? what's best for the usa is the real question.

That's what computers can be used for other than forums.

this bit of nonsense only highlights the limited faculties and imagination of the poster who to comes up with a solution like the above for what he considers a major problem.

First of all I don't consider none of this to be a major problem, even with my limited faculties. I would like to point out that the US doesn't need Thais as immigrants, unless they have major skills to contribute to the US. It is only reasonable that if they wish to go to the US, they should at least contribute to the economy in the same manner that Farangs are required to in Thailand, by the influx of money. I understand the humanitarian principles behind a Thai wife wanting to be with her husband and children should the husband and children be US citizens, to be able to own a home, and land to put it on. This is also not a problem for me, as my son can be the owner in either country. I used to think this was a problem, but really for myself alone , a decent small apartment, with a PC and a TV is really all I need, the rest is just an investment for my family should I die. All the Thai Non immigrant has to do is to conform to the same requirements as seen fit for others by their own governments. Would be no problem for my wife either. It would also keep in check the Thai and other foreign negative elements . I agree completely with the xenophobic and protectionist attitude of the Thai, and I hope the US adopts the exact policies across the board. Too bad for the ones that can't conform to such reasonable policies, they can always write to their loved ones or use MSN messenger should they be thrown out of the country for non compliance. Obviously you agree, because you also must follow these rules and are here. Why should it be different for others? Its the only sensible way to go, ask any Thai, except Thaskin maybe, who is happy to own a foreign football team 100%, which wouldn't be possible for you to do here. It's of course people like yourself with limited faculties and not willing to do a little work who allow these things to happen.

[thaigene2]

When Tesco and Carrefour have replaced all the local small and medium sized markets around, how are the village families that used to sell vegetables, meat and other stuff, supposed to get their money from? Not from the owners and shareholders of Tesco and Carrefour! It's the same problem in Europe and US, when companies like Wallmart makes it fruitless to run your own small shop in the same area.

I do prefer to pay a couple of extra baht for my vegatables in order to keep the town a living place and the families being able to send their kids to school.

Hey... Didn't we come here just because we were tired of all the commercialism back in our own countries?

Support your local dealer!

If you settled down here in LOS -ONLY- because your retirement pension couldn't cover to settle down in Florida... Well then... I'm sorry for you. This is not US and certainly not Disney world! The charm of this country is that it is not like where we came from. If you're not satisfied with that, then you're in the wrong place.

LOS - Love it or lose it!

While I am the first to sympathise with this argument (anti-commercialism/consumerism), it needs to be noted that what's killing the mon/pop shops is not the likes of Tesco or Carrefour - but 7-11 - which, despite it's American origins, is actually owned by the CP Group - owned lock, stock and barrel by rich Thais. So it's Thais screwing other Thais - not foreigners to blame.

But I do agree with you that conglomerates and globalization are not the friends of the little guy. Absolutely.