Thais Using "farang" Instead Of Our Name In Conversation

[traveller5000]

Just use 'mung' with her instead of her name. And stop patronizing people who are disrespectful to you. They know its rude, and they probably think you're a chump for putting up with it. Stop giving them your money.

I think that would be the wrong move by calling her "mung". I am still on the krup stage and dont intend to lower myself to the "mung" or "goo" level. Stop what? It only started today. I already mentioned that.

[khunandy]

Yes it is rude. The equivalent would be in the UK, calling someone from any South East Asian country "Mr Chinky", or "Mr Slant Eyes"

I dont agree with this one, it may be something like " See that Asian guy there" but certainly not as bad as Mr Chinky etc.

[percy2]

Definitely a disagreement on perspective.

Over the years in UK Nig Nog , Coloured and Black have al been used with the same intent.

Cheers

[toptuan]

I respond, in Thai, by saying, 'Look, I don't call you 'gook' do I?'...I just smile and politely tell them that in my country they would be called 'gooks'...

I doubt if they would get it since they probably have never heard of it. Further, the term is a pejorative reference to primarily Vietnamese, popularized by American G.I.'s during the Vietnam War. While it has been rarely used also against Koreans and Filipinos/Filipinas, it is even more rarely used against Thais. You'd probably be further ahead making your point by using some equivalent Thai word for an animal like a dog or monkey. (But not while they have the scissors in their hands).

[mrtoad]

Hope she didn't hug the OP.

[LaoPo]

Went to the hairdresser today to get the usual short back and sides, and there were a few other Thais waiting around reading mags.

She starts talking in Thai to me but calls me "farang" instead of my name, to address and refer to me. Her tone is loud, rough and abrupt but that is typical of her speaking style.

Anyhow I though it was rude. I would never say something like "hey asian guy, pass me the salt please". What should I make of this? Is it somehow acceptable to substitute "farang" instead of the real name in Thai culture ? or is it a sign of rudeness and if so any ideas on how to respond to this type of rudeness ?

Correct. It has to do with being civilized or not.

She's not.

She's talking loud and rough to 'ask/demand' attention and confirmation from the other Thai, present. It depends if they gave her the 'confirmation' of her rudeness.

Older Thai will probably say nothing, but disagree with her behaviour but will not seek a confrontation with her, depending how important this 'non-Lady' is.

LaoPo

[Beardog]

I would by no means think of most of the Thai society being polite(except for the younger children-God bless them)

It has more to do with the way they are taught or lack of schooling & possibly family values -or more likely on the ignorance on the part of the Thai government not teaching them we all have red blood & bleed the same color & we all have feelings & act similar when offended. Until the Government steps up to the plate & teaches racism is wrong it will continue & it will be their loss as the rest of the world grows.

I try to take it light & forgive & forget. In this case I would forget this hairdresser & find one a little more complimentary so you won't have to tell her thank you your Quainess after words!

[joskydive]

I've been called a Falang so many times over the years and also used to get annoyed about it and instantly tell them my name and demand that they use it or just not speak to me.

The aggressiveness of my response only made me lose face not them.

Now, I just reply 'Falang tee nai? Chan Falang Lao' and especially when the Motorbike Taxi's try to charge double because I'm not one of them. It works, I pay Thai prices and everyone still has a smile on their face.

[ade100]

Yes it is rude. The equivalent would be in the UK, calling someone from any South East Asian country "Mr Chinky", or "Mr Slant Eyes"

I dont agree with this one, it may be something like " See that Asian guy there" but certainly not as bad as Mr Chinky etc.

Maybe. But I would say "See that Asian guy" would be more like "See that European guy" or that "Caucasian guy". But generally they don't say that, they say "Farang" which literally means guavas.

[actiondell4]

Yes the bitch was rude to you,hey farang ,yes farang etc,thats bloody rude.

Its a bit like a ex BF of mine who is now a motobike taxi driver.

He is from Isaan and not the brightest spark.

Anyway i am sitting having Thai food with him and his isaan friend and his friend turns around to see a fat farang walk past and shouts out"poontboi poontboi and then proceeds to use his hands to form a big belly type actions.

Now the farang stops and turns around ,a quite large man ,probaly around 6 foot 4 and up there in the 180kg mark.

The farang guy looks at all of us and i was going to apologise to him but he walked off.

I was embarrassed about this and left myself.

I heard my ex BF Sfriend say "why farang go ,in thai.

The point is some of these people are low clas thais ,they know nothing better,they are uneducated.without sounding harsh.

I had to explain for 2 hours to my ex BF about the dangers of shouting abuse such as that because one day he might strike a farang who will retatilate .Also its not "normal" to be abusing people walking past,and he admitted they do not shout "poontboi" to Thais.

[prodriver]

When I overhear kids, especially in the company of their parents, calling me a farang I usually point back and call them "sapparot" with a smile on my face. They've called me a fruit so I call them one too but I always do it in a joking way. Makes me feel better anyway!

[MidoriApple]

May I have a humble opinion to this topic as a Thai woman...

When Thai people call "Caucasion" as "Farang", they don't mean to rude to you. We Thai, call you Caucasion like this since the ancient time. I have read from this website, but can't remember which one that "farang"-word come from Franch which in Thai, we said fa-rang-ses (ผรั่งเศส). and it is become just "farang" in this day, that's it.

By the way, your situation, it is up to her tone.... but some Thai people are just say it by don't think anything na kha. Jai-yen-yen

For me, sometimes I am called 'Muay' (หมวย) which mean chinese girl because I am Thai/Chinese. I don't feel any rude to be called like this. But now as I am older&older, so I am called "Jay" (เจ๊) which means a grown-up woman or think in a pestimistic way, it will mean "Middle-aged older lady". I am not happy to be called เจ๊.... I still not at that age..

Try to think positive, they just want to show respect to the older people (even just litter older).

OP should not get serious with this farang word, this is just Thai culture.

PS. Im trying to be better in English.. hope you gays not confused of my opinion.

[ThNiner]

I'm also Thai and can confirm that the word, farang, isn't meant to be derogatory at all. Like MidoriApple said, it just means "white people" to us, Thais. It,in no way, is a racial slur.

I hope you guys don't take it the wrong way as well. (And I'd agree that calling someone whose name you know a "farang" is a bit rude. But that doesn't mean that "farang" is a racial slur or has any negative connotations about your race. It's just what we call white people.)

[LaoPo]

May I have a humble opinion to this topic as a Thai woman...

When Thai people call "Caucasion" as "Farang", they don't mean to rude to you. We Thai, call you Caucasion like this since the ancient time. I have read from this website, but can't remember which one that "farang"-word come from Franch which in Thai, we said fa-rang-ses (ผรั่งเศส). and it is become just "farang" in this day, that's it.

By the way, your situation, it is up to her tone.... but some Thai people are just say it by don't think anything na kha. Jai-yen-yen

For me, sometimes I am called 'Muay' (หมวย) which mean chinese girl because I am Thai/Chinese. I don't feel any rude to be called like this. But now as I am older&older, so I am called "Jay" (เจ๊) which means a grown-up woman or think in a pestimistic way, it will mean "Middle-aged older lady". I am not happy to be called เจ๊.... I still not at that age..

Try to think positive, they just want to show respect to the older people (even just litter older).

OP should not get serious with this farang word, this is just Thai culture.

PS. Im trying to be better in English.. hope you gays not confused of my opinion.

and thank you for your sweet and kind words

Welcome to Thaivisa !

And....I am sure most gays on Thaivisa won't be confused about your opinion....

Sorry: guys...not gays

Joking of course!

LaoPo

[ratcatcher]

When I overhear kids, especially in the company of their parents, calling me a farang I usually point back and call them "sapparot" with a smile on my face. They've called me a fruit so I call them one too but I always do it in a joking way. Makes me feel better anyway!

I think this is a good response. I am rarely offended when I hear 'farang'used. I try to be 'jai yen' and not get annoyed. Sometimes if I hear 'farang' when I am in the market or at supermarket, I reply to the Thai in Thai " Yes, I am farang you are mango" or sometimes " Baksida" which I am told is Lao for guava?

I am never angry over this word. Life's too short. Just smile and give them a funny answer as some posters have suggested.

[kmart]

My hairdresser only ever asks me where I'm going for my holidays, or if I'd like "something for the weekend."

[Iambabababor]

Put a smile on your face and refer to her as "Kon Thai". She'll get the point and prolly have a chuckle as well.

Why Kon Thai? She didn't refer to you as Kon Farang, just plain simple "farang". Why put her on a pedestal?

In similar situations I retaliate by referring to them as "Thai" or in some cases K'men" i.e "Pen arai K'men"

Works wonders!

[highlander76]

Time to spend your cash somewhere else the last thing she should being doing is calling a regular customer is a farang.Two years ago a male thai teenager called me a farang in a rude way on a train he got the shock of has life when I called him a f"cking w"anker in thai back you should of seen has face

[kat]

I've just spoken to a Thai about this and she reluctantly admitted this is rude for a Thai to do this.

This has been about the fifth (and maybe last) time I went there for a haircut and she never addressed me before as "hey farang". Now i'm trying to work out the sudden change.

There are two things I can think of, first when I was waiting my turn looking in a mag, she says "are you going to do some travelling during songran?" I got a motorbike and said "no, I don't like long distances, its dangerous. some Thais are bad drivers" Perhaps she didn't like the way I blamed Thais (they seem to be quite sensitive in this regard). The other reason is she has been trying to set me up with her daughter, I knew what she looked like and politely declined citing the language barrier. This may have brought about "loss of face", I don't know. Seems quite petty if one of these are the cause of her rudeness.

Yeh probably would have been best to shrug it off or smile and call her "hey hairdresser" or "hey you Thai!". I would like to try doing that next opportunity, but the aggressive tone of her voice made me not want to converse with her at all.

May I have a humble opinion to this topic as a Thai woman...

When Thai people call "Caucasion" as "Farang", they don't mean to rude to you. We Thai, call you Caucasion like this since the ancient time. I have read from this website, but can't remember which one that "farang"-word come from Franch which in Thai, we said fa-rang-ses (ผรั่งเศส). and it is become just "farang" in this day, that's it.

By the way, your situation, it is up to her tone.... but some Thai people are just say it by don't think anything na kha. Jai-yen-yen

For me, sometimes I am called 'Muay' (หมวย) which mean chinese girl because I am Thai/Chinese. I don't feel any rude to be called like this. But now as I am older&older, so I am called "Jay" (เจ๊) which means a grown-up woman or think in a pestimistic way, it will mean "Middle-aged older lady". I am not happy to be called เจ๊.... I still not at that age..

Try to think positive, they just want to show respect to the older people (even just litter older).

OP should not get serious with this farang word, this is just Thai culture.

PS. Im trying to be better in English.. hope you gays not confused of my opinion.

Hi Midori:

As you know, Thais are very sensitive to tone, because it means everything. I know exactly what the OP is talking about because I have encountered it, and yes it is rude. It is also significant that she talked to him in this tone in front of other Thais.

[dominator]

Thais use 'Farang' because they are so uneducated. Most of them have no idea what goes on in the rest of the world. In the past, we used names such as Ni$$er, <deleted>, coons, spades etc, refering to various coloured peoples. But through education, that is mostly a thing of the past. You have to remember, that if you put a map of the world in front of most Thais, they would think that it was a picture. Thais are probably the most racist people in the world, where else could you have a political party called Thai Rak Thai?, even if their leader is Chinese.

[JSixpack]

For me, sometimes I am called 'Muay' (หมวย) which mean chinese girl because I am Thai/Chinese.

Sorry, but you are called a "Jek." Maybe not to your face, though. Manners to others of Thai nationality are often different than to Westerners.

I agree with the comments about ignorance & ethnocentricism. Among highly educated Thais I never hear the word "farang" to my face anyway. Government insecurity and brainwashing have been behind much of this; it's true in much of Asia.

Me, I reply with either "sapparot" (pinapple) or "Lao," not "Khon Lao" because they don't use "Khon Farang." If they reply they are not Lao, I ask why their manners are so Lao. This usually ends the conversation, but then most conversations w/ someone constantly calling you "farang" are not worth having anyway.

I sometimes ask the usually female cashiers in the supermarket check-out why I can't just be a "kaek" (customer), the neutral business word they would use with Thais. You'll notice them talking, perhaps to the bag boy or another cashier, and if a Westerner approaches to pay, the first one to spot him/her will say "farang mah" (farang comes) rather than "kaek." However, I've never received any answer to that question: they pretend they don't hear or understand it. Maybe they will remember my question next time, but I doubt it.

[percy2]

For me, sometimes I am called 'Muay' (หมวย) which mean chinese girl because I am Thai/Chinese.

Sorry, but you are called a "Jek." Maybe not to your face, though. Manners to others of Thai nationality are often different than to Westerners.

I agree with the comments about ignorance & ethnocentricism. Among highly educated Thais I never hear the word "farang" to my face anyway. Government insecurity and brainwashing have been behind much of this; it's true in much of Asia.

Me, I reply with either "sapparot" (pinapple) or "Lao," not "Khon Lao" because they don't use "Khon Farang." If they reply they are not Lao, I ask why their manners are so Lao. This usually ends the conversation, but then most conversations w/ someone constantly calling you "farang" are not worth having anyway.

I sometimes ask the usually female cashiers in the supermarket check-out why I can't just be a "kaek" (customer), the neutral business word they would use with Thais. You'll notice them talking, perhaps to the bag boy or another cashier, and if a Westerner approaches to pay, the first one to spot him/her will say "farang mah" (farang comes) rather than "kaek." However, I've never received any answer to that question: they pretend they don't hear or understand it. Maybe they will remember my question next time, but I doubt it.

I thought Kaek was "visitor" and usually (though not always) used in association with people of indian origin.

Cheers

[johna]

Can you tell us the sentence your hairdresser used the word "farang" in.

That might help determine weather or not she was being rude or just plain ignorant

When a Thai starts referring to you as "man" then its time to walk out the door.

[ThNiner]

I think "jek" wasn't used as a derogatory remark at the beginning, but over time it's perhaps become a bit more offensive. It's kind of like the N word in English I guess.

Anyway, I just found it very strange that even if we, Thais, have insisted that "farang" isn't meant to be a racial slur at all, you guys still believe it is. I guess it's useless to have a meaningful and open discussion about this when one side never listens to the other.

And the reason that some of us call you "farang" instead of just "kaek" or a guest is because you are just obviously physically different from us. Plus, as many of you have rightly pointed out, in our history we haven't interacted much with people from your part of the world. So it's still some kind of novelty when some of us interact with you. We call you "farang" because to us you are still strange and different, not because we look down on your race or wanna insult you. Please understand.

[Beardog]

I think "jek" wasn't used as a derogatory remark at the beginning, but over time it's perhaps become a bit more offensive. It's kind of like the N word in English I guess.

Anyway, I just found it very strange that even if we, Thais, have insisted that "farang" isn't meant to be a racial slur at all, you guys still believe it is. I guess it's useless to have a meaningful and open discussion about this when one side never listens to the other.

And the reason that some of us call you "farang" instead of just "kaek" or a guest is because you are just obviously physically different from us. Plus, as many of you have rightly pointed out, in our history we haven't interacted much with people from your part of the world. So it's still some kind of novelty when some of us interact with you. We call you "farang" because to us you are still strange and different, not because we look down on your race or wanna insult you. Please understand.

ThNiner

It is often hard to understand why anyone that isn't in your race slot is something else.That is in fact what most westerners are taught in school as racism. In My country America ,If you would my Italian friends a wap or a black man a ni* or a jew a kik* or a Chinese's person Slant I's Etc.....You would get the living crap beat out of you & would be looked at as the most despicable piece of key on earth. Living in Thailand all "Farangs have to learn to be tolerant as it really is the Governments fault IMO that this concept of someone from a different origin is really different. I can see if you are a conehead alien from another planet or have different color blood pumping through your vains- than you would be considered different.

It is just a matter of how one is brought up. My upbringing allows me to converse with anyone seeing him & her as an equal not as something different. And I do believe it is in the manner of use of the word farang if it is polite or to look down on someone to make themselves appear superior. Being neutral in actions usually has the best results.

We all look forward to Thailand catching up to the rest of the world in mannerisms.(but we won't hold our breath forever) And I don't fault the Thai's , but the government for not teaching the kids when in school.This I do not understand at all. The children here are so polite- to not just Farangs but to everybody- The better question is at what point in life are they trained to think differently? Usually in racist cultures it is inbred into your upbringing, so IMO it has to be the Governments influence has created this rift.

[khunandy]

I think "jek" wasn't used as a derogatory remark at the beginning, but over time it's perhaps become a bit more offensive. It's kind of like the N word in English I guess.

Anyway, I just found it very strange that even if we, Thais, have insisted that "farang" isn't meant to be a racial slur at all, you guys still believe it is. I guess it's useless to have a meaningful and open discussion about this when one side never listens to the other.

And the reason that some of us call you "farang" instead of just "kaek" or a guest is because you are just obviously physically different from us. Plus, as many of you have rightly pointed out, in our history we haven't interacted much with people from your part of the world. So it's still some kind of novelty when some of us interact with you. We call you "farang" because to us you are still strange and different, not because we look down on your race or wanna insult you. Please understand.

Thanks for putting a Thai perspective on things, I dont find the word offensive but prefer to be called something more personal after knowing somebody more than a short time.

Like any word in any language it is the tone it is used in to project the meaning.

[way2muchcoffee]

I appreciate the fact that a few Thai people have taken the time to respond and note that their tone is sincere. Thank you for your comments. This board needs more input from Thai people in my opinion.

The problem is that the word 'farang', when used as a label for white foreigners, offends many many westerners. The fact that many find this offensive make the use of the word racist. It has nothing to do with the the state of mind of the person using the word.

For example, I have nothing against black people, but if I refer to a black person as a nigger, it is considered racist.

Edited April 8, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[ThNiner]

Khunandy is exactly right. It's not the word in itself that's offensive, but the way it's used. I really don't know how to explain this to you, Beardog and Way2muchcoffee, "farang" is not the same as the N words or other words for Jewish and Chinese people. To Thai people, "farang" is just the same as Caucasian. It's simple as that. There's no racist or negative undertones, unlike the N word, "kik* " or "Slant I's ".

I mean when we say farang, the feeling underneath it is mostly neutral, a lot of times could be possitive, and rarely (I emphasize rarely) it could be negative. And this is completely different from the N word, "kik* " or "Slant I's " which whenever they are used (by people of different races), they are always negative or extremely negative. (I give you an example; we Thais could say, "Dek farang khon nan narak mak" = That white kid is really cute. In this case, "farang" is used as a compliment. But I really have never heard of the N word, "kik* " or "Slant I's " used that way by white people. )

So it's really odd for us to see you guys equate "farang to the N word, "kik* " or "Slant I's ". Also being seen as different doesn't mean that it's always bad or you are inferior. A lot of times, you can be different from us in a good way. So to sum it up, it's just like what Khunandy's said. "it is the tone it is used in to project the meaning." It's not the word itself.

Edited April 8, 2008 by ThNiner

[way2muchcoffee]

I understand what you are saying ThNiner. But the only thing that does matter in this case is whether the term is offensive to Westerners. If it is offensive TO THE GROUP BEING LABELLED, it is racist, and should not be used.

It would be much more appropriate to use Pee and Nong when dealing with foreigners as these words do not offend. The reason they do not offend is because the westerner is not being singled out and referred to on the basis of skin color.

Edited April 8, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[ThNiner]

Wy2muchcoffee, that's why I've been trying to help you guys understand what "farang" really means so that you won't take it as an offensive word. It really is not!