Thais Using "farang" Instead Of Our Name In Conversation

[Naam]

How about "Person Residing In Chosen Kingdom"?

P.R.I.C.K.

No offence to anyone intended

none taken!

[aaaaaa]

Ok, How would the offended people prefer to be referred to.

I mean really, what generic name for a westerner would you not be offended by? Then we can re-educate the whole nation to understand that the word farang, that has been used for generations, should be dropped.

The question still remains though, what can we use to cover all the different nationalities?

It seems the term farang is considered disrespectful to a lot of westerners but where I come from respect is earned, and that was my experience in Thailand.

I think farang think to much!!!

now, let me clarify:

do you mean that - I have to walk on the street and to each and every person who see me to "EARN RESPECT" (= do something which he/she might feel sufficient in their opinion) from them? and if I have not "earned" it, which might not necessarily mean I misbehave or do something bad but simply that they DO NOT KNOW me enough - that is sufficient for them to say something derogatory and that's ok?

I trust that you do not imply that - because that would mean that "BY DEFAULT" it is alright to offend ANYONE whom you don't know and simply because they have "not earned" that respect or just because you do not think that he has "earned" it. but where I come from, and from my upbringing, any person one doesn't know - DOES have respect by default, and rather that you do not know that person (= his wrongs, sins, bad things he might have done) - is in itself the fact of "EARNED" respect.

in legal terms universally even accused criminals are considered innocent till the ACCUSER proves it otherwise.

it is called "Presumption of innocence" and "burden of proof" belongs to accuser - HE must prove that accused is guilty, not opposite.

yet here you sound like a complete stranger walking on the road, not even in "wrong place" with "wrong people", just by himself - and not doing anything wrong, not accused by anyone - and it is he who must "earn" respect - otherwise it is totally Ok if anyone who sees him may say anything and it would be justified?

I think you and most here are trying to over-simplify the whole issue to the mere mis-interpretation or misunderstanding of the words "farang"

as we've agreed time and again - it is not the actual meaning of this word, but the WAY they speak it which is at very leat disrespectful.

and that WAY reflects the ATTITUDE of the people who use it so.

so, perhaps OP should have been more about this attitude than just one word and its controversial meaning.

and often it is not just this word "farang" - but it is accompanied

edit ---- aaaaa you appear not only to be oversensitive, but also not to understand English very well. A person uses the phrase "I think" so state an opinion or convey personal experiences. ie: I think people that get upset about the casual use of the word "farang" tend to be hypersensitive crybabies that do not understand Thailand or Thai language

well, there you go again, thanks!

seems like it is the only thing you can do - strife for "cheap recognition" by slurring people

(discrediting your opponent by making personal attacks; or so cleverly - as it may seem to you - to offend their intelligence)

for me it looks like that you merely try to take a position of oh so righteous person who defends Thai people from the bashing and slashing of bad guys. and therefore - to misinterpret what other people say or downgrade their points and switch the subject to lesser arguments or entirely made up by yourself!

sure - what a nice way to become POPULAR ! "see, how I am so nice person - exposing and condemning those who bash Thais"

well - yeah, you can try to fool some here perhaps. but not all. I've figured you out long time ago.

as saying goes "you can fool some people some time - but you can't fool all the people all the time"

and the examples are very evident: only in last few posts by OTHER (then me) members I saw that you do that often, and people DO notice that:

JD - this is the second time you have made implied slurs about me or anyone who may take offense to the use of the word 'farang'. I think it is you who is mistaken about the frequency, location, and numbers of people who are annoyed by this. To suggest that there is some link between being a sexpat and taking offense to the word 'farang' is ridiculous and highly offensive. Shame on you.

shame on him indeed. what absolute rubbish.

and yes, you DO imply in your posts that those who object to the IMPOLITE WAY (not the meaning) and manners in/with which word "farang" used - are some "low lives" or "sexpats"

like here you oh so cleverly "crybaby"

well, I can tell you some "clever" twit too :

I THINK that people who try to get CHEAP RECOGNITION by slurring others and mocking them - are losers and <deleted>, and might as well go F*** themselves !

and if we'd meet in person - perhaps it would remained to be seen who would be a "crybaby" !

meanwhile - F u 2 ! (merely answering you in the same manner - oh, don't be so offended - unless your English is not so good ! )

Well thank you for proving his, meadishsweatball's and my point.

As you said as well - the term in itself is inoffensive, and only context and intonation shows if it is respectful, descripitive or derogatory. Therefore, *WE* are not offended by the term. *WE* are only offended by derogatory manners.

As to your statement of "most" Thais using this term in a derogatory way...

So i would, in this discussion, stay with the now even by you accepted view - that the term Farang itself is *NOT*offensive.

Therefore, i would suggest to go back to using grunts and howls in human communication, as any word or term is open to interpretition, regardless of definition.

resentfulsod - YW !

and thanks for correcting me - yes, I admit, I shouldn't have use word "MOST"

also I agree - it is about MANNERS - and I was trying to talk exactly about manners.

it is just that this thread was started by OP in regard of word "farang"

and perhaps the USAGE (the WAY) of this word "farang" merely reflects the manners and attitude of some (yes, not MOST or ALL) Thai people towards foreigners

word itself is not offensive

the context it is used in, and other words which accompany it, and MANNERS - - often it is offensive.

and about grunts - well, in fact, I know some foreigners who feels at very least annoyed by grunts too !

apparently, may be he's got so much fed up with such grunts that when he asked by some Thai people, in totally friendly and polite way - he answers theme with typical sounds like "euu" (or how to transliterate in in engl. ?), exaggerating its sound that even me, foreigner, staying nearby, feel like it is too much. but he feels that - WHY NOT? because often he hears the same from Thai people. so, what's wrong with his using the same gruts in response to them? but somehow most often they show some sort of discomfort when replied in such a way.... WHY?

[ade100]

But when a significant percentage of people find a racially designated term offensive, that term is indeed racist.

Even if one is the offense is based on a misconception? I don't agree.

A significant percentage of people believed for a long time the earth was flat and immobile.

But as Galilei mumbled through his teeth, '...and yet, she's moving'.

So when a significant percentage of people found the word "Golliwog" offensive, we stopped using it in the West. I am sure there were plenty of "whites" using the word thinking it was just a bit of fun and totaly non-offensive. What are you saying? Do you think we should carry on using the word "golliwog" or do you think that group to whom it is being aimed should get to decide?

I am sure there were plenty of "whites" using the word thinking it was just a bit of fun and totaly non-offensive.

Black people were probably more worked up about the general attitude they experienced from whites, than the words used. The words then became symbols for what they felt. Obviously, to change or outlaw the use of a word does not mean an attitude disappears. Why do you think so many ways of referring to people of African ancestry have been discarded?

The relation between Caucasians and Thais is quite different to that between people of African ancestry who grew up in Western countries to which their ancestors had been dragged in chains to live in what most today would view as subhuman conditions, and the Caucasians who formed most of the economic elite in those countries.

I think the blacks who protested about 'Golliwog' were more realistic to feel apprehensive about what the group that consisted partially of former whip-wielding slave masters were up to, based on them having a few hundred years of oppression in fresh memory and only quite recently having been afforded the same rights as other races in many countries. Just my opinion of course.

Unlike many Westerners 50-100 years ago, Thais do not view Caucasians -in general- as being an uneducated race or second class citizens, nor have they or do they buy and sell us Caucasians as slaves on a large scale (there may have been some instances I don't know of but in any case nowhere near the magnitude of the slave trade to the Americas from Africa). Caucasians in Thailand are not a disadvantaged group in general. Sure, many of us have fewer rights because it is a little cumbersome to get permanent residency and citizenship, but for somebody with a decent education, a proper job and planning, it is nevertheless quite possible if that is what one desires. In general, we always have the option of leaving Thailand if we really want to. It's a big world, and if we feel that all options weighed, it is too much trouble to live in Thailand, we usually have a home country to return to and the opportunity to go back and get a job where we have more rights than here.

So, personally I think we ought to have less reason to feel apprehensive about the intentions and attitudes of Thais to us as a group.

That doesn't stop some Westerners from adopting a victim mentality though. I know some people do have it rough and I sympathize, but in comparison to the Burmese and Thai poor who live from hand to mouth and may be dying in AIDS in the shack a few doors down from their condominium, they really do not have that much reason to complain.

Anyways, if you persist in feeling that strongly about this issue, maybe head over to a forum for Thais in the Thai language, and explain to them in their own language how deeply offended you feel about being referred to as a 'farang'. Or put a video on Youtube, or make a banner to take into the streets saying 'กรุณาอย่าเรียกผมฝรั่งครับ ผมชื่อเอด' which might attract the attention of the Thai media.

That way you may be able to get them to listen, and initiate some change if you feel it is important.

You do know enough Thai to get your point through without resorting to English, right?

I agree with the point about the black/white sitauation being rather different to the Thai/Caucasian one in terms of power.

However firstly you are being rather rude: Statements like this are simply not polite and uncalled for in a debate:

"You do know enough Thai to get your point through without resorting to English, right?"

Secondly you have either misread or misunderstood my point of view when you talk about "Anyways, if you persist in feeling that strongly about this issue":

From post 68:

"I'm not going to get too upset about it, I hear the word every day. But I bet that as Thailand becomes more educated and more multi-cultural the word falls out of usage (except by the most ill-educated and insensitive Thais)."

Try and have a little more restraint and behave in a more dignified way in a debate. Personal insults are not required. Please try to address the topic and not the person. This is a forum so people are allowed to express opnions. That's what its for.

[traveller5000]

When I was waiting reading a mag, the seat became vacated and since there was another guy in the room before I came, I continued to mind my own business, looking at the mag. So she then says "farang/mate/pal/buddy (its your turn)". Then she uses the word unnecessarily in a few other ways, like "farang/mate/pal/buddy, how much off the top today?".

Nothing wrong with that!

haha.

Do you think the word farang means "mate/pal/buddy" ? It means nothing of the sort. making your other comment rather laughable.

And you have failed to take into account the all important TONE of her voice, which indicates nothing along the lines you have suggested.

[khunandy]

[now, let me clarify:

do you mean that - I have to walk on the street and to each and every person who see me to "EARN RESPECT" (= do something which he/she might feel sufficient in their opinion) from them? and if I have not "earned" it, which might not necessarily mean I misbehave or do something bad but simply that they DO NOT KNOW me enough - that is sufficient for them to say something derogatory and that's ok?

Sure, why not be an ambassador of good manners and global politeness. Respect can be earned with a well timed smile, joke or comment. You are the stranger, you are the one who should prove himself to the natives of the land that you are worthy (in any small way) of respect. No one is asking you to build an orphanage, no one is asking you to kiss the boots of a barber.

Millions of migrants and foreigners to strange lands had to earn respect and continue to do so.

I am absolutely sure that the majority of Thais would react in a positive way if you were to convey to them in a respectful tone that you dont like to be referred to as a farang but ..............(whatever you wish to be called).

I really don't advise any monkey impersonations or replying in an insulting manner if you wish to get your message across in a civilised manner.

I imagine as this news spreads around it would be easier for the Thais to just simply ignore you as they don't want to risk offending you by calling you the F word.

Do you perceive earning respect as a sign of weakness?

[meadish_sweetball]

However firstly you are being rather rude: Statements like this are simply not polite and uncalled for in a debate:

"You do know enough Thai to get your point through without resorting to English, right?"

It was a bit of a quip yes, but still an honest question too, apart from your preposterous first post in the thread, your reply was sufficiently eloquent and logical, that you'd need to forgive me for assuming that if you have stayed in Thailand any length of time it would stand to reason that such a person would take the trouble to learn the language?

So I was actually half assuming you did. Since it appears you don't, then please accept my apologies for the offense caused. Still, as has been said earlier, how do you presume to be able to tell with any certainty what is derogatory and not if you don't have sufficient grasp of the language?

English is not my first language, nor is Thai - I recognize this, and that i still have a lot to learn about both.

I wouldn't go to London or Oxford to tell the natives how they should behave, nor inform them what words in their language are offensive before I felt I had enough grasp of this, nor would I presume to do so in Thailand.

Where I was brought up, such behaviour would be considered presumptuous, ignorant and rude, and a foreigner who can barely get by in spoken Swedish but still tries to lord it over Swedes about their language, would be politely listened to by some, ridiculed by some, or given a black eye by others, depending on the upbringing, attitude and temperament of said person.

[jdinasia]

I wouldn't be putting words into Meadish's mouth if I were you ... lol .. smart of you to edit that

Reread what was written. I am sure you are capable of understanding it if you just keep trying. (and yes beardog, I concur with your post below

Edited April 8, 2008 by jdinasia

[Beardog]

No matter how we perceive the meaning. Sticks & stones can break my bones............. I never have a problem with name calling no matter how derogatory it may be .( as long as the individual does not get physical & take it to another level) I am man enough to be able to walk away from the worst insults. Lets face it This is Thailand & your going to have problems like this everywhere. My Thai girl Hates the usual slander -talking behind your back & sometimes even when people talk to your face. All groups of people are the same in this matter.

If someone pisses you off You have the choice to walk away. Life hear is much easier under the forgive & forget principal.

And I agree with Sweedish Meatball- The nature of this post is the perfect troll as everyone gets to stir the pot.

Relax have a beer or a soda & enjoy why we came here in the first place! It could be worse . We could be at home dealing with much ruder dipshts.

[traveller5000]

I wouldn't be putting words into Meadish's mouth if I were you ...

Yes, perhaps you are right. I have edited my post. I do agree with his sentiment though, and it appears you are indeed trolling for a rise with those silly comments of yours.

Care to explain your quoted comment in my previous post?

[mrtoad]

No matter how we perceive the meaning. Sticks & stones can break my bones............. I never have a problem with name calling no matter how derogatory it may be .( as long as the individual does not get physical & take it to another level) I am man enough to be able to walk away from the worst insults. Lets face it This is Thailand & your going to have problems like this everywhere. My Thai girl Hates the usual slander -talking behind your back & sometimes even when people talk to your face. All groups of people are the same in this matter.

If someone pisses you off You have the choice to walk away. Life hear is much easier under the forgive & forget principal.

And I agree with Sweedish Meatball- The nature of this post is the perfect troll as everyone gets to stir the pot.

Relax have a beer or a soda & enjoy why we came here in the first place! It could be worse . We could be at home dealing with much ruder dipshts.

And not for the first time.

This topic has been done to death a number of times. Think most people can understand what is offensive and what isn't, just by the tone of voice used. Anyway, there's more important things to worry about.

I'm going to pop down to the shop and see if they call me Khun Toad or Farang.

[madjbs]

die thread die

why doesn't everyone go and read the 500 other equally boring threads on the same topic

[khunandy]

Oh well, this bird has been well and truly cooked, the choice bits eaten with relish now its just fighting over the bones.

Time to move on for me

[PeaceBlondie]

At the request of the OP, and because this has been flogged like a dead buffalo on ThaiVisa before, I will close the thread.

I suppose there is some multisyllabic phrase in Thai that every Thai understands as "there is a human being who is neither Thai nor Asian nor African, probably of European descent." I suppose the two syllables are "farang." We could say in RP English, "Forsooth, Hermione, lookest yonder at that uncouth speaker of some minor multi-tonal foreign language."