Buddhism By The Sword?

[camerata]

Yes, but, to repeat, my question is not about whether Buddhists have been involved in violence (which I knew), but whether they have used violence as part of an effort to spread acceptance of and belief in Buddhism among those who do not already accept and believe in it.

No, they didn't. I've read a couple of books about the spread of Buddhism from India to Japan and there is no mention of using violence. Typically, it was spread by individual proselytising monks, which is why you initially had so many different sects in China all based on different sutras or treatises.

I think it would be pretty ridiculous for an army to turn up somewhere and say, "Convert to Buddhist pacifism and compassion or die!"

[suegha]

I've noticed many of your posts in this forum don't meet this criteria.

Let's leave moderating to the moderators and quit talking about Christianity. The topic is Buddhism by the Sword. Any more off-topic posts will be deleted.

Thank you camerata. A voice of reason.

[Austhaied]

Historically, have there been any cases where people have sought to spread belief in Buddhism through conquest and violence, in the way that Christians and Muslims have from time to time done with respect to their faiths? I am not seeking comments on the propriety of such activities or what it means for people to undertake them. I am just curious whether historically it has happened.

Any religion with an "ism" in it's name i can't speak for.

As for anyone else spreading the Dhamma by the sword..Never, nor will they ever. Not the true Dhamma anyway.

[Rasseru]

I think it would be pretty ridiculous for an army to turn up somewhere and say, "Convert to Buddhist pacifism and compassion or die!"

Yes, of course. But the fact that it would be ridiculous does not mean that it has never happened. Human beings have shown, time and time and time again, that they are quite capable of doing ridiculous things.

[Rasseru]

I think these Buddhist-bashing threads are becoming dull. I find it strange that non-Buddhists are so interested in the Buddhist part of the forum. If posters came to learn a bit more about Buddhism it would be fine, but they don't - they come to bash it.

I hope you understand that I, the OP, did not start this thread either to bash Buddhism or, equally importantly, to invite any other posters to do the same. Actually, come to think of it, while I have not reviewed the thread to check, I don't recall that many, if any, of the other posters have been bashing Buddhism on this thread.

[Austhaied]

I think it would be pretty ridiculous for an army to turn up somewhere and say, "Convert to Buddhist pacifism and compassion or die!"

Yes, of course. But the fact that it would be ridiculous does not mean that it has never happened. Human beings have shown, time and time and time again, that they are quite capable of doing ridiculous things.

Anyone with the true dhamma in their hearts would be incabable of doing such a "ridiculous" thing.

[Rasseru]

I think it would be pretty ridiculous for an army to turn up somewhere and say, "Convert to Buddhist pacifism and compassion or die!"

Yes, of course. But the fact that it would be ridiculous does not mean that it has never happened. Human beings have shown, time and time and time again, that they are quite capable of doing ridiculous things.

Anyone with the true dhamma in their hearts would be incabable of doing such a "ridiculous" thing.

I imagine you are correct, as a matter of definition, but I also imagine that you understand my question was not about, or at least not limited to, those with true dhamma in their hearts.

[Rasseru]

Is the OP asking specifically about Theravada history?

No, I am asking about the full range of Buddhist history, including, but not limited to, Theravada history.

[Plus]

Well, so far we have a case of Ashoka, who apparently abandoned his conquests after converting to Buddhism, and Siam-Burmese rivalry that was more about showing off trophies and not about converting the enemies.

We haven't uncovered any evidence of convertions in China or Japan even if their Buddhist monks were relatively more violent.

Can we say "case closed" yet?

[mike_rad]

That story is found in mahayana Buddhism. It is not in the Jataka Tales.

The Jataka stories are found in all traditions. But you got a specific reference proving that story is not part of them?

----

[buffcoat]

Well the answer appears to be that Buddhism was not spread by the sword but this does not mean all Buddhists are or have been pacifist.

I assume this is basically because the acceptance of other spiritual paths is deeply entwined in Buddhist thought and of course that Buddhism does not define God and therefore cannot demand you believe God is XXX.

[CuriousGeorge77]

I would say that jives with my post 100%.

[Austhaied]

I think it would be pretty ridiculous for an army to turn up somewhere and say, "Convert to Buddhist pacifism and compassion or die!"

Yes, of course. But the fact that it would be ridiculous does not mean that it has never happened. Human beings have shown, time and time and time again, that they are quite capable of doing ridiculous things.

Anyone with the true dhamma in their hearts would be incabable of doing such a "ridiculous" thing.

I imagine you are correct, as a matter of definition, but I also imagine that you understand my question was not about, or at least not limited to, those with true dhamma in their hearts.

Yes i understand.

So have you found the answer to your question yet ??

I think you know the answer is NONE.

Or is their something you know that we don't ?

There are no "infidels" in Buddhism to convert (or slay), just the ignorant who don't want to listen, and are therefore left to their own devices.

Try asking the folk over at Esangha for an answer. Ther are many posters there that could "enlighten" you.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Austhaied

[Rasseru]

So have you found the answer to your question yet ??

I think you know the answer is NONE.

Or is their something you know that we don't ?

No, actually, I have not found a definitive answer to my question yet and I do not 'know' that 'the answer is NONE'.

I have found, however, significant further support for my original belief that in the history of Buddhism there have been no cases where violence has been used for the purpose of spreading belief in Buddhism, or with that purpose as its justification.

The fact that neither I nor anyone else here knows of any such case does not, however, mean that there is no possibility at all that any such cases exist. I go forward from this point with a stronger confidence that history is as it seems to be from the evidence here, but I intend to keep my mind open to the slight chance that there is more to the story than that.

I also go forward with gratitude for the efforts that many here have made to address my question with as serious an intent as that with which I asked it. Thank you all.

[Brucenkhamen]

I go forward from this point with a stronger confidence that history is as it seems to be from the evidence here, but I intend to keep my mind open to the slight chance that there is more to the story than that.

This is the best approach, both to questions like this that you can never be totally certain of the answers, and to following the Buddhas path to liberation.

[sabaijai]

I think these Buddhist-bashing threads are becoming dull. I find it strange that non-Buddhists are so interested in the Buddhist part of the forum. If posters came to learn a bit more about Buddhism it would be fine, but they don't - they come to bash it.

I hope you understand that I, the OP, did not start this thread either to bash Buddhism or, equally importantly, to invite any other posters to do the same. Actually, come to think of it, while I have not reviewed the thread to check, I don't recall that many, if any, of the other posters have been bashing Buddhism on this thread.

Because those posts have been deleted per posting guidelines for this forum.

[Rasseru]

I think these Buddhist-bashing threads are becoming dull. I find it strange that non-Buddhists are so interested in the Buddhist part of the forum. If posters came to learn a bit more about Buddhism it would be fine, but they don't - they come to bash it.

I hope you understand that I, the OP, did not start this thread either to bash Buddhism or, equally importantly, to invite any other posters to do the same. Actually, come to think of it, while I have not reviewed the thread to check, I don't recall that many, if any, of the other posters have been bashing Buddhism on this thread.

Because those posts have been deleted per posting guidelines for this forum.

Ah!