Pre Nuptial Agreements

[DeDanan]

Hi all,

I am an Irish Citizen living in Ireland and considering marring my Thai girlfriend who is living in Thailand. The marriage would be in Thailand but we would live in Ireland.

I wish to try to protect my assets i.e. House and business, should we get divorced some time in the future. (This is not because she is Thai, I would wish to protect my assets from ANY future wife Thai or Farang – once bitten twice shy!)

Do pre-nuptial agreements work?

Should I get them drawn up by a Thai lawyer or an Irish lawyer?

Any experience / advice and recommendations of a good Thai lawyer with expertise in this field would be appreciated.

Have a Happy…

DeDanan.

PS. I know the girl nearly 3 years and have been there many times and she has been to Ireland on a 3 month holiday visa, so its not just a holiday fling.

[Sumitr Man]

First off, the translation of pre-nuptial agreement from Thai to English means it is called and ante-nuptial agreement under Thai law.

Second, under Thai law an ante-nuptial agreement is void if it is not entered in the Marriage Register at the time of the marriage registration - stating that it is an ante-nuptial agreement clearly on the document. The agreement needs to be signed by both husband and wife, and at teast two witnesses.

[all of this can be found in section 1466 of the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand]

Third, once registered, an ante-nuptial agreement in Thailand cannot be changed unless there is an order from the court to such affect [see section 1467].

Lastly, any provision in an ante-nuptial agreement cannot be contrary to public order or good morals of the Thai people: neither of which (i.e. "public order" or "good morals") is a definable term under Thai law, but is determined on a case-by-case basis. [see Section 1465 for the first part of that para.]

So, if you're getting married in Thailand, the next question is what affect that has on your status in Ireland - for which you'll need to consult an Irish lawyer - and whether or not your marraige in Thailand will be registered at the local amphur (which I assume it will be if visas to Ireland become an issue. but don't know for sure).

All the above is theory - I have no idea if they work in practice...

SM

[Cabana]

got my pre nup drawn up in Thailand and it was attached to our wedding registration and recorded at the same time, same day. Surprised more people dont do this as very easy to do and under thai law all assets on divorce are split 50/50 so unless the assets are listed would be more difficult to apportion.

[Sumitr Man]

Surprised more people dont do this as very easy to do and under thai law all assets on divorce are split 50/50 so unless the assets are listed would be more difficult to apportion

Whilst this is true (and your post is good advice), it is only true to an extent.

Assets which are split 50/50 are only those assest which you accrue/acquire during your marriage. Anything you had before would still be yours.

[kenk3z]

Somewhere I read briefly that there is a trend toward VIDEOTAPED pre-nuptial agreements. Didn't read the details but I presume that a video machine is run at the signing "ceremony" to show that all participants are signing the document.

I presume this helps later if someone decides to claim that they never signed the document and its a forgery.

I'm hoping this videotaping trend doesn't develop any further. I can see each partner collecting pre-divorce evidence against the other now - a few good shots of each in the morning when first waking, the pile of dishes in the sink, the kids dirty and whining for food, the liquor cabinet, the husband passed out in front of the TV with beer cans all around, etc. etc.

kenk3z

[Pepe']

I didn't get one before I got married. When we got married I left her with a credit card in her name while we waited about 9 months for her to arrive here in the states.

All she ever used it fot was AUA language school and some routine shopping.

When she arrived here I added my wifes name to all real property, bank accounts

car titles and other credit cards.

This is one type of agreement.

Remember, the signature below and No Fear...

[Narachon]

I wonder what Tiger Woods Pre nup with Elin looks like ?

[penelope]

I wonder what Tiger Woods Pre nup with Elin looks like ?

If tiger's mom had anything to do with it, I would say it is very one sided !!

[Cabana]

Surprised more people dont do this as very easy to do and under thai law all assets on divorce are split 50/50 so unless the assets are listed would be more difficult to apportion

Whilst this is true (and your post is good advice), it is only true to an extent.

Assets which are split 50/50 are only those assest which you accrue/acquire during your marriage. Anything you had before would still be yours.

sorry Sumitr man yr right i didnt make it clear as to this very pleasing aspect of thai law compared to other countries divorce laws where youll be fleeced down to yr last Y fronts. Of course this makes it all the more important to specify who owns what at the time of the nuptials.

[ProThaiExpat]

Keep in mind that a pre-nuptial agreement is a contract between two people. Thus, it must comply with western concepts of contract law which includes consideration (benefit) flowing both ways if it is to be enforceable in Ireland.

It is a very good idea to include a benefit accruing to your wife that she does not have at the time of the signing, ie. inducement to sign, otherwise your pre-nuptial agreement will run into difficulty in the west, if not in Thailand. Thus, providing for a lving allowance for a few years after the divorce is a very good idea and makes the pre/ante nup more digestable by the less fortunate signer. Thus, the positive spin of a pre-ante nup is "I want to make sure you have money, if and when, we break up, I hope it never happens, but if it does, I want you to know I will take care of you".

I assume from your post that the majority of your assets are in Ireland and that is where your divorcing wife would have to go to collect your assests, in Irish courts.

Thus an pre/ante nup satisfying Irish law and Thai law is really the only way to go.

Recording the pre/ante nup in Ireland, if their law requires, as well as in Thailand. I would not be surprised if there are not more or less standard pre/ante nup agreement forms available in both courntries from legal stationers.

Starting with a basic Thai ante-nup agreement, translated into English and then taken to an Irish lawyer seems the best way to go to me. Certainly, anything a lawyer in Ireland does to embelish the Thai document won't invlaidate it, since Thai lawyers only hold undergraduate degrees, in most cases. Have the final combined agreement translated back into Thai, of course, before recording it at the time of the marriage registration.

I am sure sponsors of this forum, who have lawyers on staff, have the agreements on hand and have prepared many of them for farang in Thailand. (ie, indo-siam and sunbelt asia).

[IamMaiC]

I wonder what Tiger  Woods  Pre nup with Elin looks like ?  

If tiger's mom had anything to do with it, I would say it is very one sided !!

Say that again His Mom I read somewhere is very happy with this girl

I use to do security where he lives and she (His Mom) would come in about once every few months

But his GF/Fiance has money also Wasn't she a model Before??