Self Sufficiency Dream

[chicadee]

Hi all,

If these questions are answered on this forum my apologies let me know and I shall search some more

I have lived in Thailand for about 6 years and have a young family which has made me think of the future, so, although I am not a farmer I asked my father in law to search for some decent land for investment purposes mainly but for them to farm and so far I have 2 parcels 65 and 70 rai near Sam Chi, which is in the middle of, or an hour or more from KK, Karasin, Udon Thani and Sakhon Nakhon.

Initially I offered to buy a cheap tractor so they could farm it and here I am, 3 months later having read many many very interesting and informative threads on many issues I am intrigued with farming, even the little heated debates between obviously well read/knowledgeable members about crop yields, tractor prices etc. are amusing, though it makes me realise the risks involved in many decisions you have to make but what a rewarding life farming can be to produce something of value to the world, although I will not be doing so much of the laborious work I look forward to the many challenges ahead.

My dream (master plan) is to live up there hopefully within the next 4 and half years (before I’m 50) and have a self sufficient relatively eco-friendly life. I am not a farmer but all my in-laws allegedly are, anyway I hope to have 6 or 7 similar sized parcels by this time, of rubber plantations, (possibly with some palm oil for fuel) so as when one plantation dies in 30 years or so others are still producing, I hope to set up a sort of co-operative (socialist really) system amongst all the farms (families) with the father in law the cartel Don as it were with 1 rai equaling one share so if one farm burns to the ground and another gets nicked over night, everyone still has a share from the other farms, reducing the risk of individual loss, not sure if this will work yet but have a few years to work on this concept , it’s difficult trying to convince them of new things i.e. that the new RRIT 251 clone that allegedly produces more latex is actually producing, but I have been in touch with a nice lady doctor from http://www.ku.ac.th/english2003/faculty/ and she tells me she is sending me the latest book on rubber farming, new techniques etc. so I will give them that to digest while the 251’s grow, they already do a share crops system thing in the community I am told so maybe my idea will not be too alien to them, I don’t presume to tell them how to farm but hopefully I can convince them with some facts and figures from a doctor and they will convert to the new ways seeing the financial gains achievable.

I think I know many (probably 1%) of the many pitfalls involved here so I don’t need any tales of woe as my heart and mind are set on this venture, I will not come back later and say “why didn’t someone tell me” when I’ve been swindled out of everything by my girlfriends cousin (husband) but any constructive points are welcome.

I am in the process of buying a tractor, boring for water, having soil and water (when/if available) samples fully tested and I am considering drainage systems (if possible) for starters, but what I would like from you guys are;

A. Is anyone actually producing latex/rubber (especially 251) or Palm oil? Can you divulge a recorded gross monthly/annual quota per rai and the conditions it was produced i.e. irrigated, fertilized etc?

B. Is anyone doing the self sufficiency bit? i.e. Bio-diesel, solar power, recycling etc.

C. Does anyone know of a good Kubota (340) dealer in my neighbour with after sales service?

D. Are there international schools anywhere near me? If not, if local farangs who intend paying vast sums of money to a Bangkok school were to club together would it be difficult or expensive to organize our own local, western/Thai curriculum school or at least employ properly trained graduate teachers rather than the brickies, posties etc. who teach the kids at all the schools round here.

E. Are there any golfers and any decent existing or new courses nearby? I am quite prepared to live closer to a school or golf course if it will benefit me and my family.

F. Does anyone have a link to a good 251/Palm oil nursery, I have a government registered one in Chonburi with good prices but is there any thing I should watch for when checking?

G. Not sure about fertilizer yet as we don’t know what the soil consists of and haven’t read the good doctors book yet but any help here would be appreciated i.e. is there something you can put on any soil that will better it regardless?

Your input on any of the topics would be greatly appreciated, I have some info on the above topics, probably not as informative as you already have as I am a newbie but if anyone wants it let me know.

Happy songkhran to all.

[Dakhar]

How much money do you have??????????

and from what little I know, you don't own any land.... your wife may, but you do not. That is unless you are Thai.

Good luck.

[guyshown]

very possible for you to manage a living. There is some pretty good schools in Sakon Nakhon, maybe not international but rather good schools.

[chicadee]

How much money do you have??????????

and from what little I know, you don't own any land.... your wife may, but you do not. That is unless you are Thai.

Good luck.

What does it have to do with you how much i have or who owns the land ? Are you a lawyer ?

[ozzydom]

How much money do you have??????????

and from what little I know, you don't own any land.... your wife may, but you do not. That is unless you are Thai.

Good luck.

What does it have to do with you how much i have or who owns the land ? Are you a lawyer ?

I think what Dakhar is trying to say is that your "dream" as you have laid it out is an extremely expensive exercise , running into many millions of baht. As well ,talk of creating your own little "socialist state" would be a turn off for most posters.

[chicadee]

How much money do you have??????????

and from what little I know, you don't own any land.... your wife may, but you do not. That is unless you are Thai.

Good luck.

What does it have to do with you how much i have or who owns the land ? Are you a lawyer ?

I think what Dakhar is trying to say is that your "dream" as you have laid it out is an extremely expensive exercise , running into many millions of baht. As well ,talk of creating your own little "socialist state" would be a turn off for most posters.

I thought this forum was about helping people by sharing info with eachother gained through experience, not prying into people's personal life and falsifying statements, what does it matter to anybody what it costs me, that is my business and if you do not understand how a co-operative system can work find out before insinuating i am some kind of communist dictator, how can you misinterpret or misconstrue “I hope to set up a sort of co-operative (socialist really) system amongst all the farms (families)” into “creating your own little socialist state" as you put it? And who are you to judge what people think, every one I have talked to thinks it’s a great idea, including the in-laws although I’m sure they would agree to anything they are so pleased to have this opportunity. Sharing tractors, machinery, processing plant, techniques etc. not forgetting the risk factor has to be beneficial and economical to all and if you have read any other threads there seems to be a great risk of fire involved with these plantations leaving a farmer (family member) potentially ruined, if my system works and I can alleviate this great.

If you can tell me a better way please do, that would be “constructive”.

I do not know if i will even make money from this but i know i will be making some Isaan families lives better whatever happens, have you given your family the opportunity to be a 7-10% shareholder in a 350 rai farm? Ok I hope to make money out of this, is that a crime or perhaps socialism? Why did you not ask me to elaborate on my “socialist state” before making this ludicrous statement, as I am only too willing to divulge any information that may be of some benefit to you or any reader and rest assured I will not ask anything that is not relevant to your request, I’m not interested in your or anyone else’s personal life.

Not that i should have to explain myself but at the moment i employ around 100 Thais, more than 200 sometimes and this venture will employ hundreds more, since i have been here i have paid millions of baht in taxes, i contribute to the system, i don't care what you do, good luck to you in whatever it is but i am sure you wouldn't mind reaping any benefits if i put money (as i hope to) into the local community for better schooling etc.

I only wanted some answers to my questions as i thought that was the point of this forum and if you took the time to read my posting it is clear i did not want to waste my time answering this type of nonsense, what "constructive points" have you made?

All you have done is insult me but please lets not take this any further as i am busy enough.

[ozzydom]

chickadee, perhaps it is you who should re-read your OP, all I see is lots of I and me.

eg.. I bought 2 parcels of land, I will buy 6 or 7 such parcels ,I offered to buy a cheap tractor for your wifes family Who in your words are "allegedly farmers".

I hope to set up a co-operative (socialist really) among all the farmers

You refer to a one rai =1 share system and each group having up to 10% share in your projected 350rai.

Now this would indicate that A.. Your T/W will hold ownership of the land and the family will share in a percentage of the total profits equally (or losses).

Or B.. you are going to transfer title of approx 35 rai to each of approx 10 family groups to work in a co-operative manner utilising the knowledge and infrastructure (and cash) that you will provide.

I commend you for your noble ideas, but Karl Marx and myself beat you to it.

My T/w split a property between 6 (inc herself)brothers and sisters and in doing so started WW111 which is still ongoing.

[chicadee]

chickadee, perhaps it is you who should re-read your OP, all I see is lots of I and me.

eg.. I bought 2 parcels of land, I will buy 6 or 7 such parcels ,I offered to buy a cheap tractor for your wifes family Who in your words are "allegedly farmers".

I hope to set up a co-operative (socialist really) among all the farmers

You refer to a one rai =1 share system and each group having up to 10% share in your projected 350rai.

Now this would indicate that A.. Your T/W will hold ownership of the land and the family will share in a percentage of the total profits equally (or losses).

Or B.. you are going to transfer title of approx 35 rai to each of approx 10 family groups to work in a co-operative manner utilising the knowledge and infrastructure (and cash) that you will provide.

I commend you for your noble ideas, but Karl Marx and myself beat you to it.

My T/w split a property between 6 (inc herself)brothers and sisters and in doing so started WW111 which is still ongoing.

Don't misunderstand me i am no Carl Marx i hope to make money from this venture whilst providing a good life for my family and myself and what else can i say apart from 'I and Me' it's money 'I' worked 30 years for, what should i say?

Anyway i asked for info not a character analysis, do you have something against what i propose ? I am trying to utilise the funds i have to provide, me with a pension if that's ok, and my family's future for possibly generations to come.

I don't know the finer or maybe even the rougher details of my plan hence my posting i was thinking of leasing each family the land for an initial 3 year period with an extended 3 years all being well in which time they can make as much money as they can off the land whilst taking care of the rubber trees, if my good doctors book or any information comes to my attention telling me it is no good for crops to be intermingled i will have to pay for the upkeep of the land for 7 years or so.

I said "allegedly farmers" because my father in law was allegely a carpenter 2 years ago when i was building a house so for my wife to tell me she has all these family members who have farmed rubber i take with a pinch of salt so as per usual the biggest problem will probably end up being labour.

Anyway i am interested if you have any ideas on this and as my plan comes together over the next few years you may be able to tell me any errors made.

All i wanted was a Kubota tractor dealer number locally, was that too much to ask for!!

[Khonwan]

Hi chickadee

Unfortunately, I cannot help you with your particular questions but I wish you all the best with your endeavors.

Rgds

Khonwan

[ozzydom]

Siam Kubota Industry Co., Ltd.

Tel. 0 2909 0300

This company has about 100 dealers ,give them a ring and find out the closest dealer .

[chicadee]

Siam Kubota Industry Co., Ltd.

Tel. 0 2909 0300

This company has about 100 dealers ,give them a ring and find out the closest dealer .

Thanks for the number i already have the local dealers i wasn't sure if all Kubota dealers gave similar after sales service regardless of where you buy and i recall one member saying how pleased he was with it but don't know recall where he lived, i will look again for the thread.

I am visiting a Rangsit dealer another member suggested Monday and my in-laws are making enquiries locally, fortunately Maizefarmer who has a wealth of knowledge in this field has given many pointers in what to look for.

I suppopse like buying any motor it's always a bit of a lottery, in saying that i have had 4 years trouble free motoring with my Isuzu (if they only made tractors).

Thanks again

[Gary A]

I have thought about a sugar cane coop for several years. The cane around this area is mostly cut by Burmese and Lao people. Local labor is hard to find and it gets worse every year. A couple of cane harvesters and a syrup extraction plant would be a great thing and not really that expensive. The hand cut cane gets trucked to Chum Pae which is about 90 kilometers. The crushing plant could be powered by burning the bagasse. That is common practice. Talking to local farmers will discourage you quickly. Many if not most live from hand to mouth. Using cane harvesters means the chopped cane must be processed fairly quickly whereas the hand cut can can stand being left much longer. Just the transportation savings would be substantial. I think eight ton of cane will yield about one ton of heavy syrup. A couple of tankers could transport a LOT of syrup. Since the syrup would be used for ethanol, strict hygienic standards would not be necessary. If I were a young man I would study it far more but my working days are finished and I enjoy being retired.

[slapout]

chicadee: you have had several helpful hints from people who have no agenda nor are they attempting to sell you anything, If you have a source that you feel good with, why do you want to verify and double check what good faith suggestions you have recieved? Most of us are here to try to learn about some aspect of farming and as you point out do not appreciate some one bringing up questions about our motive or decision when we decide to go our own way. The background of the farming group on tv is varied and very forthcoming with no hidden agenda for the most part. Its when you ask a question and then refute or blow off a suggestion or a following question that you bring out the best or worst of some of us.

[Zeid]

okay maybe now is the good time to ask a question, what in peoples opinion is a good size land that will will generate money to make a person live off of it with his family.

[chicadee]

chicadee: you have had several helpful hints from people who have no agenda nor are they attempting to sell you anything, If you have a source that you feel good with, why do you want to verify and double check what good faith suggestions you have recieved? Most of us are here to try to learn about some aspect of farming and as you point out do not appreciate some one bringing up questions about our motive or decision when we decide to go our own way. The background of the farming group on tv is varied and very forthcoming with no hidden agenda for the most part. Its when you ask a question and then refute or blow off a suggestion or a following question that you bring out the best or worst of some of us.

What are you talking about now? Did you even read my posting ? Why waste your time with this type of nonsense?

[ozzydom]

chickadee, It seems that each time somebody tries to help you ,all it gets is remarks of derision and contempt from you.

If you ask a question and dont get the answer you want to read it does not give you the right to reply with derisive remarks,this is a discussion forum after all.

I suggest that before posting further ,you read the pinned section at the top of page one regarding newbies seeking advise from this forum.

Members exchange their ideas and experiences to assist fellow members in the farming fraternity and can well do without your types of retort.

I am now closing this thread.

ozzydom

moderating team member.