Farang Pretend-police

[sriracha john]

Thank you for your knowlege and deep concern on this matter, I think I have an easy solution for you.

Please try it. You would be doing a great service to anyone who volunteers their time and effort to the community. Just go to the Thai Immigration office near you, if you live in CM it is located on the road to the airport on the left side. It is best you bring printed copies of your posts on this thread. When you get there ask to speak to the person in charge and ask for clarification and a ruling on this matter.

As stated previously the ruling on the matter from the group that actually has control over the matter has been very clearly enunciated in the past....

from Post #66 which referenced an incident that was one of the biggest calamities to befall Thailand in centuries...

From the Phuket Gazette:

Tsunami volunteers warned: get work permits

PHUKET: Foreign volunteers assisting in tsunami-related charity work are required to hold work permits, regardless of whether they are being paid for their efforts or not.

Sayan Chuaiyjan, Head of the Phuket Provincial Employment Service Office [ESO], told the Gazette yesterday that there could be no exceptions and that his office would begin to enforce the regulations soon.

“There can be no exceptions. Work is work, even if it is for charity,” he said.

He pointed out that any foreigner caught working with out a work permit is liable to hefty punishment.

“If our officers, police officers or immigration police learn [of foreign volunteers] who don’t have work permits, the maximum penalty is three years in jail, a 30,000 baht fine [or both],” he warned.

So, in other words, if they required work permits for one of the most helpful and desperately needed work possible...

one would expect the same of any lesser work.... one would further expect that particularly for someone working in law enforcement, that their work would be legal.

Edited May 12, 2008 by sriracha john

[FolkGuitar]

I hope you don't mind me asking again, but I'm intrigued. Please explain ....

'Why are you so bothered about whether or not these guys have a work permit or not?

I'm sure they are aware of the ramifications of being a volunteer and since they continue to do it, I assume they are not concerned. So why are you? It certainly doesn't appear to be brotherly love.

'I'm not questioning their motives... but their ethics and morals' you say.

Ethically and morally, they shouldn't be helping tourists!!! Wow.

Perhaps this is simply a case of 'moral indignation,' which we all know is basically

2% moral

48% indignation

50% jealousy

No other answer seems to fit quite as well. When people object to other people giving freely of their time, when people ridicule the volunteers for providing a service, when these same people then say that they have the time to go drinking but not the time to help others....

Hey, if you see hoofprints and smell horsesh@t, think horses, not zebras.

I can appreciate the poster's wish to see the laws enforced. In a Utopia there wouldn't even be a need for laws. In many countries, more laws ARE enforced. But we live in this one. Accept that fact and try to live in harmony with it. If you want to see the laws handled the way YOU want them to be, start your own country, make your own laws, and enforce them. Then count how many people live there.

I can understand people wishing to see a different uniform. I can understand people wanting this organization to be separate from the Police. There are plenty of good reasons for these ideas, although there are just as many good reason for not changing. That's a matter of opinion. But when you get people ridiculing those who are trying to help others.... No, there are NO good reasons for that!

[gpdjohn]

I was wondering if they do wear patches on the uniform..in the pictures that were up for a few minutes, I thought I did see some, and if so..

I would be interested in trading a few with some of my patches from my department back in the States..

My old partner still works there and is a avid patch collector and would simple love one from Chiang Mai.

[FolkGuitar]

I was wondering if they do wear patches on the uniform..in the pictures that were up for a few minutes, I thought I did see some, and if so..

I would be interested in trading a few with some of my patches from my department back in the States..

My old partner still works there and is a avid patch collector and would simple love one from Chiang Mai.

Yes, patches are part of the uniform, reading both Tourist Police and Volunteer

If you go to the Military/Police/Scout shop 5 meters south of the corner of the moat and Propaklao (sp?) Rd, on the right side as you face south, you can purchase enough patches to choke a horse. Every branch of Police and Military, all rank insignias, units, awards, hats, web gear, bandannas, whistles, shoulder cords, etc., are available and are sold to anyone with the money to pay. You could have your friend in hog heaven with a shoe box full!

For those who wanted to be volunteers but were rejected, here's your chance for fame and glory.

[KevinHunt]

Thank you, I look forward to the posting of a copy of the required work permit exemption letter from the Labour Ministry.

It certainly would be appropriate for police volunteers to not be flagrantly in violation of the law, especially in light of the stiff penalties involved.

John I did not say i was going to post a copy i was going to clarify what the situation is and what there response is to your question

regards

The situation seems very clear already. The police volunteers are working illegally in Thailand. What the work permit exemption letter posting would do would be to legitimize that they are not working illegally.

As for doing things above aboard and in compliance with regulations and law, it always has struck me odd that police volunteers in particular... a group supposedly dedicated to the enforcement of regulations and laws have... thus far for 4+ years of Thaivisa...failed in this regard.

Any update on getting legitimate and legal?

I hope you don't mind me asking again, but I'm intrigued. Please explain ....

'Why are you so bothered about whether or not these guys have a work permit or not?

I'm sure they are aware of the ramifications of being a volunteer and since they continue to do it, I assume they are not concerned. So why are you? It certainly doesn't appear to be brotherly love.

You assume a tremendous amount on their part. It's been obvious through many of these several police volunteer threads that they are NOT aware of the ramifications. I think their reluctance to address the issue properly reflects a denial of their concern. Still, why don't we both allow them to speak for themselves on these aspects.

'I'm not questioning their motives... but their ethics and morals' you say.

Ethically and morally, they shouldn't be helping tourists!!! Wow.

Ethically and morally, the representatives of law enforcement should not be so flagrantly in violation of the law that they have willingly chosen to enforce. Ethically and morally, they should take the necessary steps to insure they are legal to perform the task of helping tourists. Once again, don't confuse the issue of work permits with the altruism that also comes into the situation. Complying with the law AND helping others are not mutually exclusive.

I know I said before, that your obsession was 'strange' but actually it wasn't really the right word ... it's more... welll .... funny. I had to admit that mistake because I remember laughing a few times. In fact I'm having a good little chuckle now.

I didn't have a view on these guys one way or another, but the more I hear the negative judgements and criticism they get for helping people out , the more I admire them. They're out on the streets, being polite, friendly and helpful and for some reason they're being ridiculed and having their ethics and morals questioned. Amazing. I still don't understand the Thais, but Farangs never cease to amaze and amuse me.

That's not surprising given that you seem to have a limited ability to see various aspects of a single topic.

Thank you , you answered all my questions. Even the first one.

Edited May 13, 2008 by KevinHUNT

[sriracha john]

Thank you, I look forward to the posting of a copy of the required work permit exemption letter from the Labour Ministry.

It certainly would be appropriate for police volunteers to not be flagrantly in violation of the law, especially in light of the stiff penalties involved.

John I did not say i was going to post a copy i was going to clarify what the situation is and what there response is to your question

Any update on getting legitimate and legal?

Thank you , you answered all my questions. Even the first one.

Glad to help. By the same token, hopefully, we'll hear back soon from the police volunteers themselves on the questions asked of them.

[klikster]

Glad to help. By the same token, hopefully, we'll hear back soon from the police volunteers themselves on the questions asked of them.

Why should they answer to you .. or to any other anonymous forum "pundit"?

[KevinHunt]

Glad to help. By the same token, hopefully, we'll hear back soon from the police volunteers themselves on the questions asked of them.

Why should they answer to you .. or to any other anonymous forum "pundit"?

My point entirely. I asked the same question twice ...

' Why are you so bothered about whether or not these guys have a work permit or not? '

but got no direct answer. You need to read between the lines.

[papajohn]

I hope you don't mind me asking again, but I'm intrigued. Please explain ....

'Why are you so bothered about whether or not these guys have a work permit or not?

I'm sure they are aware of the ramifications of being a volunteer and since they continue to do it, I assume they are not concerned. So why are you? It certainly doesn't appear to be brotherly love.

'I'm not questioning their motives... but their ethics and morals' you say.

Ethically and morally, they shouldn't be helping tourists!!! Wow.

Perhaps this is simply a case of 'moral indignation,' which we all know is basically

2% moral

48% indignation

50% jealousy

No other answer seems to fit quite as well. When people object to other people giving freely of their time, when people ridicule the volunteers for providing a service, when these same people then say that they have the time to go drinking but not the time to help others....

Hey, if you see hoofprints and smell horsesh@t, think horses, not zebras.

I can appreciate the poster's wish to see the laws enforced. In a Utopia there wouldn't even be a need for laws. In many countries, more laws ARE enforced. But we live in this one. Accept that fact and try to live in harmony with it. If you want to see the laws handled the way YOU want them to be, start your own country, make your own laws, and enforce them. Then count how many people live there.

I can understand people wishing to see a different uniform. I can understand people wanting this organization to be separate from the Police. There are plenty of good reasons for these ideas, although there are just as many good reason for not changing. That's a matter of opinion. But when you get people ridiculing those who are trying to help others.... No, there are NO good reasons for that!

Thank you folk guitar I find your wisdom and knowledge exceptional,

not to mention your patience with some uninformed, misinformed and

outright nasty folks in this forum.

Now for the facts about The TPD volunteers.

1. We are not law enforcement : we are told NOT to get involved

in any way with police responsibilities. If we see anything that

looks like trouble we call on the cellphone and a Thai Police officer

will come to assist. Their response time is very quick too.

2. We do NOT carry batons, handcuffs, flamethrowers or AK-47s.

What you see on my belt is a cellphone and a digital camara.

3. We have 4 main venues to assist the tourist : Airport, Sunday

night walking street, night bazzar and TPD headquarters.

Headquaters is where we talk with 100-200 tourists everyday 7

days a week, 365 days a year. This is not easy work.

4. We are REQUESTED, not demanded, to give 20 hours a MONTH.

This is flexable of course. TIT

5. We are told at the interview that they will do a police background

check in our native country.

6. We buy the prescribed uniform at a shop of our choosing. Mine

cost 1300 baht, ( I've dropped that much on lady drinks in an

hour) The word VOLUNTEER is shown on any shirts we wear

that in any way looks official. I have some polo shirts for the hot

days that were gifts from the Thais as a way of saying thanks

for the help.

7. Now for the BIG one, I hope this removes the BUG from

someones Butt. I ask about work permits and the law.

This is from the officer in charge of volunteers.

The volunteers are EXEMPT because we work for the Government

of Thailand. The other volunteers here who help in other ways

work for foundations ( religious, humanitarian etc.) that are

NOT Thai Government agencies. So my morals and ethics are

still in tact (sometimes) .

8. I am told that a police uniform is the best deterent to petty

street crime. Thieves, cons and bag snatchers tend to target

the tourists in any country. Tourism being the # 1 industry

here I feel the Thais know what they are doing. If you want to

see me in white tights and a tutu its gonna cost you

I know my attempts at humor are pretty lame, just trying

to keep it light.

Please drive carefully and don't forget to SMILE

Sawadee Kup

[Mestizo]

I hope you don't mind me asking again, but I'm intrigued. Please explain ....

'Why are you so bothered about whether or not these guys have a work permit or not?

I'm sure they are aware of the ramifications of being a volunteer and since they continue to do it, I assume they are not concerned. So why are you? It certainly doesn't appear to be brotherly love.

'I'm not questioning their motives... but their ethics and morals' you say.

Ethically and morally, they shouldn't be helping tourists!!! Wow.

Perhaps this is simply a case of 'moral indignation,' which we all know is basically

2% moral

48% indignation

50% jealousy

No other answer seems to fit quite as well. When people object to other people giving freely of their time, when people ridicule the volunteers for providing a service, when these same people then say that they have the time to go drinking but not the time to help others....

Hey, if you see hoofprints and smell horsesh@t, think horses, not zebras.

I can appreciate the poster's wish to see the laws enforced. In a Utopia there wouldn't even be a need for laws. In many countries, more laws ARE enforced. But we live in this one. Accept that fact and try to live in harmony with it. If you want to see the laws handled the way YOU want them to be, start your own country, make your own laws, and enforce them. Then count how many people live there.

I can understand people wishing to see a different uniform. I can understand people wanting this organization to be separate from the Police. There are plenty of good reasons for these ideas, although there are just as many good reason for not changing. That's a matter of opinion. But when you get people ridiculing those who are trying to help others.... No, there are NO good reasons for that!

Just to clarify my opinions a bit, I think that in theory these guys provide a very valuable and much needed service. I think its awesome that they volunteer their time to help out like this. I think their ability to mediate in situations involving thai and farang is also fantastic. I also think that they are in a unique position to set an excellent example/ be a role model for the Thai police. A chance to lead by example. To maybe change things for the better. What they are doing is to be admired and respected. And I hope that one day, once my Thai language ability improves, that I also might serve in the same or similar capacity.

With that said, what I do take exception to, is the sneak drinking of beers and flirting with bar girls while on duty. I feel it sets an extremely poor example. These guys should realize that the very second they don that uniform, that others are going to hold them to a higher moral standard. Now, I do realize that I may be partially at fault for attempting to apply western-style values to a situation in Thailand. However, lets also bear in mind that the main target audience of these guys are in fact Western tourists. I think that I, as a western tourist in need of assistance, would be very very put off seeking assistance from somebody who had just got done knocking back a few tall beers. This sort of thing would never be acceptable in a western society, and should not be accepted here either.

Just my $0.02,

-Mestio

[KevinHunt]

I hope you don't mind me asking again, but I'm intrigued. Please explain ....

'Why are you so bothered about whether or not these guys have a work permit or not?

I'm sure they are aware of the ramifications of being a volunteer and since they continue to do it, I assume they are not concerned. So why are you? It certainly doesn't appear to be brotherly love.

'I'm not questioning their motives... but their ethics and morals' you say.

Ethically and morally, they shouldn't be helping tourists!!! Wow.

Perhaps this is simply a case of 'moral indignation,' which we all know is basically

2% moral

48% indignation

50% jealousy

No other answer seems to fit quite as well. When people object to other people giving freely of their time, when people ridicule the volunteers for providing a service, when these same people then say that they have the time to go drinking but not the time to help others....

Hey, if you see hoofprints and smell horsesh@t, think horses, not zebras.

I can appreciate the poster's wish to see the laws enforced. In a Utopia there wouldn't even be a need for laws. In many countries, more laws ARE enforced. But we live in this one. Accept that fact and try to live in harmony with it. If you want to see the laws handled the way YOU want them to be, start your own country, make your own laws, and enforce them. Then count how many people live there.

I can understand people wishing to see a different uniform. I can understand people wanting this organization to be separate from the Police. There are plenty of good reasons for these ideas, although there are just as many good reason for not changing. That's a matter of opinion. But when you get people ridiculing those who are trying to help others.... No, there are NO good reasons for that!

Thank you folk guitar I find your wisdom and knowledge exceptional,

not to mention your patience with some uninformed, misinformed and

outright nasty folks in this forum.

Now for the facts about The TPD volunteers.

1. We are not law enforcement : we are told NOT to get involved

in any way with police responsibilities. If we see anything that

looks like trouble we call on the cellphone and a Thai Police officer

will come to assist. Their response time is very quick too.

2. We do NOT carry batons, handcuffs, flamethrowers or AK-47s.

What you see on my belt is a cellphone and a digital camara.

3. We have 4 main venues to assist the tourist : Airport, Sunday

night walking street, night bazzar and TPD headquarters.

Headquaters is where we talk with 100-200 tourists everyday 7

days a week, 365 days a year. This is not easy work.

4. We are REQUESTED, not demanded, to give 20 hours a MONTH.

This is flexable of course. TIT

5. We are told at the interview that they will do a police background

check in our native country.

6. We buy the prescribed uniform at a shop of our choosing. Mine

cost 1300 baht, ( I've dropped that much on lady drinks in an

hour) The word VOLUNTEER is shown on any shirts we wear

that in any way looks official. I have some polo shirts for the hot

days that were gifts from the Thais as a way of saying thanks

for the help.

7. Now for the BIG one, I hope this removes the BUG from

someones Butt. I ask about work permits and the law.

This is from the officer in charge of volunteers.

The volunteers are EXEMPT because we work for the Government

of Thailand. The other volunteers here who help in other ways

work for foundations ( religious, humanitarian etc.) that are

NOT Thai Government agencies. So my morals and ethics are

still in tact (sometimes) .

8. I am told that a police uniform is the best deterent to petty

street crime. Thieves, cons and bag snatchers tend to target

the tourists in any country. Tourism being the # 1 industry

here I feel the Thais know what they are doing. If you want to

see me in white tights and a tutu its gonna cost you

I know my attempts at humor are pretty lame, just trying

to keep it light.

Please drive carefully and don't forget to SMILE

Sawadee Kup

That should put that one to bed, I hope. But you never know - dogs and bones....

Anyway to show my admiration for your tolerance and good nature , you're welcome to a free pint at my place, too. Farangcravings knows where I am. In fact, a free pint to all those that have shown support for them. Friday night, my place. You've got til Friday 2pm to post your positive remarks, if you haven't done so already. The silent majority??

[FarangCravings]

Just to clarify my opinions a bit, I think that in theory these guys provide a very valuable and much needed service. I think its awesome that they volunteer their time to help out like this. I think their ability to mediate in situations involving thai and farang is also fantastic. I also think that they are in a unique position to set an excellent example/ be a role model for the Thai police. A chance to lead by example. To maybe change things for the better. What they are doing is to be admired and respected. And I hope that one day, once my Thai language ability improves, that I also might serve in the same or similar capacity.

Hey Meztizo

TPD is looking for more Volunters right now so No need for your thai to get better feel free to sign up anytime your ready while speaking thai is an advantage you will mainly be dealing with tourists that speak english

Anytime you want to sign up drop me a PM and i will be happy to take you to get application and show you the procedure

best regards

[JuniorExPat]

That should put that one to bed, I hope. But you never know - dogs and bones....

Anyway to show my admiration for your tolerance and good nature , you're welcome to a free pint at my place, too. Farangcravings knows where I am. In fact, a free pint to all those that have shown support for them. Friday night, my place. You've got til Friday 2pm to post your positive remarks, if you haven't done so already. The silent majority??

Great job lads, well done, you're a credit to the expat community . . . I look forward to meeting you on Friday.

JxP

[gpdjohn]

I have stated in my previous posts, that I think it is a great idea and a big pat on the back for all of 'em that wish to do it.

Thanks FG for the info on the patches!

Stay safe out there and wear your seat belts.

~ John

[sriracha john]

Glad to help. By the same token, hopefully, we'll hear back soon from the police volunteers themselves on the questions asked of them.

Why should they answer to you .. or to any other anonymous forum "pundit"?

It's certainly up to them whether or not they respond and after 4+ years they haven't on Thaivisa. However, as it is a discussion forum, its upon them to respond to statements they make. It's been my experience that any thread wherein someone identifies themselves as a subject of the thread, this normally occurs... irregardless of the thread topic, but when it doesn't, it raises flags.

I have no other contention really with the topic other than their legal status. If that was to be cleared up, this aspect would be removed from discussion and the only way for the matter to cleared up is to answer.

[FarangCravings]

I have no other contention really with the topic other than their legal status. If that was to be cleared up, this aspect would be removed from discussion and the only way for the matter to cleared up is to answer.

I guess you missed Papa Johns answer

[klikster]

Glad to help. By the same token, hopefully, we'll hear back soon from the police volunteers themselves on the questions asked of them.

Why should they answer to you .. or to any other anonymous forum "pundit"?

It's certainly up to them whether or not they respond and after 4+ years they haven't on Thaivisa. However, as it is a discussion forum, its upon them to respond to statements they make. It's been my experience that any thread wherein someone identifies themselves as a subject of the thread, this normally occurs... irregardless of the thread topic, but when it doesn't, it raises flags.

I have no other contention really with the topic other than their legal status. If that was to be cleared up, this aspect would be removed from discussion and the only way for the matter to cleared up is to answer.

Well there is one more. You could realize that you have no status .. no right to demand answers .. and could simply .. stop.

[klikster]

2. We do NOT carry batons, handcuffs, flamethrowers or AK-47s.

What you see on my belt is a cellphone and a digital camara.

$#@(*&^!

*pouting and tearing up my application*

[sriracha john]

First of all, thank you very much for responding, it's practically a thaivisa first and I caught it after I had made my last post.

Now for the facts about The TPD volunteers.

1. We are not law enforcement : we are told NOT to get involved in any way with police responsibilities.

The other police volunteer said that some members become involved in undercover narcotics work. Is that accurate or do you feel that's not being "involved" with police work?

2. We do NOT carry batons, handcuffs, flamethrowers or AK-47s. What you see on my belt is a cellphone and a digital camara.

Thank you for clarifying what the Chiang Mai contingent of the police volunteers carry. On other threads regarding other cities, a different list of accessories is used.

5. We are told at the interview that they will do a police background check in our native country.

Did they actually do one and do they provide you with a written copy of it?

6. The word VOLUNTEER is shown on any shirts we wear that in any way looks official. I have some polo shirts for the hot

days.

Another aspect that varies from city to city. Thank you for speaking for Chiang Mai.

7. Now for the BIG one, I hope this removes the BUG from someones Butt. I ask about work permits and the law.

This is from the officer in charge of volunteers.

First off, the police officer in charge of volunteers is not in a position to issue this declaration. It can only come from a representive of the Labour Ministry.

The volunteers are EXEMPT because we work for the Government of Thailand.

There is no such exemption that exists. If there is, please reference it. There are many people that volunteered to work for the Government of Thailand, including myself. In my case it was a government school under the Ministry of Education, the same as your police volunteer group fall under the Ministry of Interior. I know of many volunteers who work for the Government of Thailand and either they are fully aware of their illegal status or they have work permits. If you can or your the officer in charge of volunteers can provide a reference for this exemption, I and many other volunteers around the country would be extremely interested, but to the best of my knowledge and experience, it doesn't exist. What does exist apparently according to the Labour Ministry laws is a work permit exemption letter issued by them. I've never seen one, but at least they do exist by law.

The other volunteers here who help in other ways work for foundations (religious, humanitarian etc.) that are NOT Thai Government agencies.

It's true that those foundation volunteers do indeed need work permits.... AND it's also true that those Thai government agencies volunteers ALSO need work permits.

Again, thank you very much for taking the time to respond and I look forward to further dialogue and/or clarifications.

Your informative writing accomplished more in one post what a dozen other entire threads failed to produce.

[Crow Boy]

I think that all people who donate their time and knowledge as a volunteer should be commended. Irrespective of whether they are volunteer police, red cross workers, teach English for free or donate blood they add to the community that is our home.

It is very easy for people to criticize or ridicule but my natural response is to say "then do something constructive about or shut up and let those that can - do"

Thanks to the participants of this thread it has been interesting and informative. Thanks also for the replies from various members of the volunteer police and similar.

To those who like the idea of helping our fellow tourists with their local knowledge, I repeat my earlier suggestion to start up a thread and work out a shirt and logo then make a representation to the TAT and governor. That way you will be able to help as an alternative means of representation.

CB

[sriracha john]

Glad to help. By the same token, hopefully, we'll hear back soon from the police volunteers themselves on the questions asked of them.

Why should they answer to you .. or to any other anonymous forum "pundit"?

My point entirely. I asked the same question twice ...

' Why are you so bothered about whether or not these guys have a work permit or not? '

but got no direct answer. You need to read between the lines.

You can begin see the frustrations involved the same as I have had for years across a dozen or more threads.

My answer to you is because of what I pointed out to the police volunteer once some of my questions were answered. In that others in similar volunteer situations don't have this exemption.... but yet don't share the same denial of their status.

[gpdjohn]

I hope you don't mind me asking again, but I'm intrigued. Please explain ....

'Why are you so bothered about whether or not these guys have a work permit or not?

I'm sure they are aware of the ramifications of being a volunteer and since they continue to do it, I assume they are not concerned. So why are you? It certainly doesn't appear to be brotherly love.

'I'm not questioning their motives... but their ethics and morals' you say.

Ethically and morally, they shouldn't be helping tourists!!! Wow.

Perhaps this is simply a case of 'moral indignation,' which we all know is basically

2% moral

48% indignation

50% jealousy

No other answer seems to fit quite as well. When people object to other people giving freely of their time, when people ridicule the volunteers for providing a service, when these same people then say that they have the time to go drinking but not the time to help others....

Hey, if you see hoofprints and smell horsesh@t, think horses, not zebras.

I can appreciate the poster's wish to see the laws enforced. In a Utopia there wouldn't even be a need for laws. In many countries, more laws ARE enforced. But we live in this one. Accept that fact and try to live in harmony with it. If you want to see the laws handled the way YOU want them to be, start your own country, make your own laws, and enforce them. Then count how many people live there.

I can understand people wishing to see a different uniform. I can understand people wanting this organization to be separate from the Police. There are plenty of good reasons for these ideas, although there are just as many good reason for not changing. That's a matter of opinion. But when you get people ridiculing those who are trying to help others.... No, there are NO good reasons for that!

Just to clarify my opinions a bit, I think that in theory these guys provide a very valuable and much needed service. I think its awesome that they volunteer their time to help out like this. I think their ability to mediate in situations involving thai and farang is also fantastic. I also think that they are in a unique position to set an excellent example/ be a role model for the Thai police. A chance to lead by example. To maybe change things for the better. What they are doing is to be admired and respected. And I hope that one day, once my Thai language ability improves, that I also might serve in the same or similar capacity.

With that said, what I do take exception to, is the sneak drinking of beers and flirting with bar girls while on duty. I feel it sets an extremely poor example. These guys should realize that the very second they don that uniform, that others are going to hold them to a higher moral standard. Now, I do realize that I may be partially at fault for attempting to apply western-style values to a situation in Thailand. However, lets also bear in mind that the main target audience of these guys are in fact Western tourists. I think that I, as a western tourist in need of assistance, would be very very put off seeking assistance from somebody who had just got done knocking back a few tall beers. This sort of thing would never be acceptable in a western society, and should not be accepted here either.

Just my $0.02,

-Mestio

Not to add flame to the fire, but have you ever been in Philly or NY or Chicago perhaps?

Went to a couple of cop schools ( 2 as an instructor ) in these fine cities as was taken aback when brought into the local pubs, in uniform, on duty, and watched in horror as the locals knocked back several..

It my part of the country, i.e. state, only working UC could do that within policy...there they told me it was just part of the "benefit"...been going on for years...plenty of years..

and none except me ever paid for them either..I was told not to do that, pay for it, I mean...that was against the unwrtten law there as well...

[KevinHunt]

Glad to help. By the same token, hopefully, we'll hear back soon from the police volunteers themselves on the questions asked of them.

Why should they answer to you .. or to any other anonymous forum "pundit"?

My point entirely. I asked the same question twice ...

' Why are you so bothered about whether or not these guys have a work permit or not? '

but got no direct answer. You need to read between the lines.

You can begin see the frustrations involved the same as I have had for years across a dozen or more threads.

My answer to you is because of what I pointed out to the police volunteer once some of my questions were answered. In that others in similar volunteer situations don't have this exemption.... but yet don't share the same denial of their status.

So the laws aren't applied uniformly or consistently in Thailand? I must remeber that. A useful point learnt. Thanks.

[sriracha john]

You can begin see the frustrations involved the same as I have had for years across a dozen or more threads.

My answer to you is because of what I pointed out to the police volunteer once some of my questions were answered. In that others in similar volunteer situations don't have this exemption.... but yet don't share the same denial of their status.

So the laws aren't applied uniformly or consistently in Thailand? I must remeber that. A useful point learnt. Thanks.

It's not so much the laws aren't applied uniformly as it is that this is the lone group, out of many people that volunteer similarly, who are under the mistaken belief it's not illegal.

When one considers that denial is a common defense mechanism, it's understandable they don't wish to acknowledge this.

As apparently several people are unaware of this status, it is this aspect that I would encourage all potential recruits to this group that they realize this and not perpetuate the myth that it is "ok" and fully be aware that what they are doing is illegal.

Having been made fully aware of this, if they still wish to perform this illegal work and recognize the potential consequences, then... it's certainly "up to you"....

Edited May 13, 2008 by sriracha john

[papajohn]

Glad to help. By the same token, hopefully, we'll hear back soon from the police volunteers themselves on the questions asked of them.

Why should they answer to you .. or to any other anonymous forum "pundit"?

My point entirely. I asked the same question twice ...

' Why are you so bothered about whether or not these guys have a work permit or not? '

but got no direct answer. You need to read between the lines.

You can begin see the frustrations involved the same as I have had for years across a dozen or more threads.

My answer to you is because of what I pointed out to the police volunteer once some of my questions were answered. In that others in similar volunteer situations don't have this exemption.... but yet don't share the same denial of their status.

So the laws aren't applied uniformly or consistently in Thailand? I must remeber that. A useful point learnt. Thanks.

Good one, you got my funny bone working again

I would like to add something regarding drinking in

bars. I was told not to do this while in uniform for the reasons stated in another post. This is a small town and a farang is noticed, and a farang in a Thai

uniform is like a pink elephant in a snow storm. I understand this is a double standard. Its their country and I respect that. Without getting into gossip I see this is changing for the better. The Thai TPD are hard working, friendly and a nice bunch of guys and gals to work with. Back to my point, no drinking in uniform period! You will be asked to resign if caught doing it. It reflects badly on all the farang volunteers and the TPD.

The rain is keeping me inside tonight so I have time to offer some insight to those of you who are interested. The volunteers I work with are also a nice bunch of farangs, birds of a feather thing I guess.

French, German, Dutch, Japanese, Chinese, Aussies

Brits, Yanks, Canadians and many more. Where else

could I possibly meet such a variety of nice people.

Thank you Thailand! I love it here. Enough said, sorry if I bore anyone. Have a nice life.

[sriracha john]

So the volunteer that was posted earlier drinking on duty will be asked to resign?

I hope someday you all get legal with work permits. It would help your recruiting and lend credibility to your positions.

Edited May 13, 2008 by sriracha john

[papajohn]

So the volunteer that was posted earlier drinking on duty will be asked to resign?

I hope someday you all get legal with work permits. It would help your recruiting and lend credibility to your positions.

I read those posts as banter between friends here, good to see some folks do have a sense of humor.

You got your answer about work permits, we are legal, end of story. You better do something about

that bug before it gets to your prostate. I see the rain stopped, I'm outa here, enjoy your day.

[sriracha john]

So the volunteer that was posted earlier drinking on duty will be asked to resign?

I hope someday you all get legal with work permits. It would help your recruiting and lend credibility to your positions.

I read those posts as banter between friends here, good to see some folks do have a sense of humor.

So then, your statements about the impropiety of police drinking on duty and the consequences of it was just banter... and so the volunteer that was drinking on duty will not be asked to resign. Thanks for clearing that up.

You got your answer about work permits, we are legal, end of story.

With all due respect, you did NOT answer the issue of work permits...

This is from the officer in charge of volunteers.

First off, the police officer in charge of volunteers is not in a position to issue this declaration. It can only come from a representative of the Labour Ministry.

The volunteers are EXEMPT because we work for the Government of Thailand.

There is no such exemption that exists. If there is, please reference it. There are many people that volunteered to work for the Government of Thailand, including myself. In my case it was a government school under the Ministry of Education, the same as your police volunteer group fall under the Ministry of Interior. I know of many volunteers who work for the Government of Thailand and either they are fully aware of their illegal status or they have work permits. If you can or your the officer in charge of volunteers can provide a reference for this exemption, I and many other volunteers around the country would be extremely interested, but to the best of my knowledge and experience, it doesn't exist. What does exist apparently according to the Labour Ministry laws is a work permit exemption letter issued by them. I've never seen one, but at least they do exist by law.

What WILL answer the question of work permits is either... a legal work permit or a legal work permit exemption letter, both of which are issued by the Labour Ministry. Until such time, your status remains "other than legal". The other possibility is that you acknowledge your illegal status and freely choose to continue with its inherent risks despite of it..... same as the volunteers I referred to above.

Edited May 14, 2008 by sriracha john

[FolkGuitar]

With all due respect, you did NOT answer the issue of work permits...

Just a quick question; since this is obviously so important to you,

why don't you go to the Tourist Police office and ask for a copy of the exemption yourself?

I'm sure if it's important to others that they could do the same.

[sriracha john]

With all due respect, you did NOT answer the issue of work permits...

Just a quick question; since this is obviously so important to you,

why don't you go to the Tourist Police office and ask for a copy of the exemption yourself?

I'm sure if it's important to others that they could do the same.

For one thing, it's never been established that a "copy of the exemption" even exists.

The only thing we have been told was that the police coordinator gave what apparently was a verbal confirmation that because they work for the Government they are exempt. That rationale has already been pointed out to be a fallacy.

Why the police volunteers haven't been pro-active themselves and indeed have been extremely obtuse on the issue of providing evidence that qualifies their legal status is simply more proof that they aren't legal.

Lastly, If I were to go to the trouble of making my own personal inquiries on the issue, it would not be to the police who don't have cognizance and authority on the issue in the first place, but to the Labour Ministry to make a formal investigation about the illegal workers involved. I've not done that yet because I've always expected that such a simple question could have easily been answered by the people involved here on the forum. However, as the years and threads tick by with more denials and rationalizations and obfuscation, that expectation is eroding.

Edited May 14, 2008 by sriracha john