Indonesian Bond Price

[Edonista]

I am interested in purchasing the following bond IDG000007402 INDONESIA 10.25% 15.07.2027 IDR FR0042. According to this site <link deleted> its latest price was 78.75 , but the price is 1 week old and no bid/offer are shown.

On the IDX website <link deleted> each time I enquiry for a price I get an empty page <link deleted>

I wonder if one of the many other TV millionaires has an Indonesian brokerage account and could possibly check prices and volumes for this bond

Edit: Links deleted for security reasons. Any member who can help the OP with the desired information, please PM him. - Maestro

Edited April 18, 2008 by Maestro

[Edonista]

links to the Indonesian Stock Exchange and Erste Bank are "unsecure" ?

This forum never stops to amaze me.

[Naam]

Edonista, i am getting the details from UBS server but neither bid nor ask nor volume. i was also told a couple of years ago that ID bonds denominated in IDR are not traded offshore AND if you hold them domestically tax at source of 20% applies.

for what it's worth here's the graph:

[Naam]

Indonesian brokerage account

i can't imagine me being drunk enough to establish an account with an indonesian broker on top of that i don't consider 10% yield in IDR (after taxes) of interest when i get a higher yield (e.g. in BRL) and deal with an AAA debtor. all HY currencies (especially ISK and TRY) were hammered these last few weeks. only BRL is a joy

[j_cheung]

Indonesian brokerage account

i can't imagine me being drunk enough to establish an account with an indonesian broker on top of that i don't consider 10% yield in IDR (after taxes) of interest when i get a higher yield (e.g. in BRL) and deal with an AAA debtor. all HY currencies (especially ISK and TRY) were hammered these last few weeks. only BRL is a joy

But, Dr. Naam, I heard that all eurobonds that are denominated in BRL pay interest back in USD. Is that true or there are notable exceptions?

[Naam]

Indonesian brokerage account

i can't imagine me being drunk enough to establish an account with an indonesian broker on top of that i don't consider 10% yield in IDR (after taxes) of interest when i get a higher yield (e.g. in BRL) and deal with an AAA debtor. all HY currencies (especially ISK and TRY) were hammered these last few weeks. only BRL is a joy

But, Dr. Naam, I heard that all eurobonds that are denominated in BRL pay interest back in USD. Is that true or there are notable exceptions?

that is only partly correct JC (if you have an account in Brazil and hold a domestic BRL bond then BRL is paid into your account minus 15% withholding tax). but it doesn't really matter whether the (offshore) BRL coupon is paid via USD conversion (a few bonds exist now where BRL at coupon time is paid in €UR). you just instruct your bankers to convert immediately into any currency of your preference.

domestic BRL bonds have a much higher yield than offshore ones and net still considerably more even after the 15% tax. BUT as a foreigner forget about opening a bank account in Brazil! we owned immobile property in the country and it still took us 9 months and a zillion of EXTREMELY SILLY AND IRRELEVANT documents till our account was established getting BRL legally out of the country is a nightmare. transferring it through a "doleiro" is a breeze and takes 24 hours.

[Edonista]

Indonesian brokerage account

i can't imagine me being drunk enough to establish an account with an indonesian broker on top of that i don't consider 10% yield in IDR (after taxes) of interest when i get a higher yield (e.g. in BRL) and deal with an AAA debtor. all HY currencies (especially ISK and TRY) were hammered these last few weeks. only BRL is a joy

The appeal of IDR compared to BRL or TRY is that IDR on PPP basis is a lot less expensive.

Besides, should Indonesia achieve to control inflation, with a 20 years bond you can make a relevant capital gain.

[Edonista]

domestic BRL bonds have a much higher yield than offshore ones and net still considerably more even after the 15% tax.

Not really. Domestic bonds are linked to SELIC that is currently 11.75%. Less 15% taxes that means 10%.

Brazil 10.25% 2028 (tax free)quotes around 90 yielding about 11.70%

[Edonista]

Edonista, i am getting the details from UBS server but neither bid nor ask nor volume. i was also told a couple of years ago that ID bonds denominated in IDR are not traded offshore AND if you hold them domestically tax at source of 20% applies.

for what it's worth here's the graph:

Thanks for the graph...it seems it rebounded already from the 78.75 done on 9 April.

[Naam]

domestic BRL bonds have a much higher yield than offshore ones and net still considerably more even after the 15% tax.

Not really. Domestic bonds are linked to SELIC that is currently 11.75%. Less 15% taxes that means 10%.

Brazil 10.25% 2028 (tax free)quotes around 90 yielding about 11.70%

i was not talking about government bonds but corporates which yield between 14% (BBB) and 21% (. i still have some BRL left from the sale of property which a brazilian friend of mine handles (private loans). yield 5.5% a month. not bad but still much less than the loan sharks charge in Thailand.

[sonicdragon]

It only trades onshore. Current level is around 81. See attachment for details. Foreign brokers such as Citibank and Standard Chartered make markets in it, so if you bank with either of them you can probably get a retail offer.

[LaoPo]

links to the Indonesian Stock Exchange and Erste Bank are "unsecure" ?

This forum never stops to amaze me.

Possibly Yes !

The message that there was a new topic (from you) in "Jobs, economy, banking...etc" was stopped and put in my 'unwanted mail' as containing "phishing" (possibly in one of your links) and that NEVER happened before with the thousands of email alerts I received from Thaivisa.

Therefore I alerted TV in order to try and prevent possible damage to fellow members.

The problem is that you nor anybody else can guarantee that there is NO phishing or possible spam in the links from Indonesia, Stock Exchange/Erste Bank or not.

Better be safe than sorry.

LaoPo

[Edonista]

It only trades onshore. Current level is around 81. See attachment for details. Foreign brokers such as Citibank and Standard Chartered make markets in it, so if you bank with either of them you can probably get a retail offer.

Thanks Sonic , I wondered how much the spread was and I am glad to see it is 1 point.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Professional traders in banks/securities houses will get their price feeds from Bloomberg or Reuters, and also in financial institution to financial institution communications based on their own calcs. Not the average BBg/Reuters websites individuals can access on the web, but the systems they subscribe too. Even then there are times the BB/Reuters price does not always reflect the "real market".

An option is to contact a local broker or security house. But then difficult to ensure you're getting a good price. Still you'll have that issue anyway if you can find a way to trade.

One newspaper you could use is Bisnis Indonesia. But using a newspaper you'll get a one day time lag. Not sure if that is aceptable or not. Would be a reasonableness/sanity check though.

2006 was a good year for Indo bonds. Rates went all the way up to 12.75% peaking in around May 2006. Obviously markets were ahead of the actual BI moves. But for anyone getting in at the peak, they had some nice coupons while just waiting for the successive interest rate cuts, and capital gains which didn't take long, then came as regular as clockwork for a few monhs as BI preictibly kept cutting. Don't think 2008 looks as good as 2006 was.

Assume you tried Bank of Indonesia website. If recall it doesn't give very up to date pricing but OK for some prices.

www.bi.go.id/web/en

For corporate bonds has been an issue for years. Was particularly acute round the Asian crisis. Mutual funds for corporate bonds often hit this issue when liquidity dries up and investors want to cash in their chips.

Edited April 23, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS