German Infected 450 Thai Woman With Aids

[katyusha]

You will suggest I am logged on as katyusha on one computer and rod_kalashnikov on another, but the real explanation is that you are just an idiot who thinks he knows everything and sees conspiracies where none exist.

Plachon is not the only one suspecting there is something 'fishy' about your username and your use of proxys.

Talking about idiots, if you think listing who is logged in at a time proves anything either way, I wonder whose brain it is which suffers a shortcut.

What is fishy about my user name sTROLL ?

[sriracha john]

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

You see the photo of this loser?

Now tell me 450 Thai high school girls slept with him! Yeah, right and they were all blind, were also missing a leg, and they had all mistaken him for a Thai citizen who just graduated from high school! That's why so many slept with him, they thought he was a college soccer stud!

By the way, is there any way to get this German guys phone number? He's so cute, I too wanted to have sex with him.

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Since when was being fit and having good looks a requirement for sex for money? IF that was the case, Pattaya would be an empty ghost town.

[sriracha john]

So let's add up a few of the facts here.

A German national accused by a community in northeast Thailand of spreading HIV/AIDS among local school girls.

And who is this "community"?

Well, for starters, we got anywhere from 100-450 Thai whores who will allegedly do anything for 4,000 baht short time. Gee, that's a credible source.

Then we got his nasty HIV infected wife, who obviously has a grudge against his ex-husband. Another highly credible source.

Then there's the Thai neighbors. Oh, gee, neighbors never gossip, do they now!

What a team of reliable sources we have to go on! Gee, you almost got me convinced. But wait! Hold on! There's just one little problem.

"Health authorities in Chaiyaphum have not been able to determine whether Schiemann is HIV positive."

What! You mean after all this, we don't even know if the guy is HIV positive to begin with?

Ha! Shows how naive all of you out there were to buy into this story in the first place. What people will believe when it appears in the media! Never ceases to amaze me.

He's his own worst enemy. He is the one proclaiming to be HIV+. He is the one proclaiming that he has had sex on numerous occasions for money. He is the one proclaiming that because he has been overstay for so long that he is "Thai."

In any criminal case, if the evidence against the defendent is weak..but the accused admits to it, isn't that a basis for guilt?????

[travelfish]

This is the full story written by Dan Pedersen, He was the first journo to break the story - he sent me another version of this around a week ago - I posted it on the Lonely planet Throntree at the time -- what follows is his entire story rather than the edited versions that have run in The Nation and SMH and carries far more detail than the wire pieces - all which ran as pick-ups off Dan's original story. It should answer some of the questions that have been raised already...

Took a while

Daniel Pedersen

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

German national Hans-Otto Schiemann, 56, is suspected of deliberately infecting

more than 450 young women with the HIV/Aids virus in Thailand’s Chaiyaphum

province, according to an HIV/Aids worker based in the town.

The naval veteran has been locked up in Chaiyaphum’s jail and they don’t want

to let him go.

Surviving on a disability pension, he has led a life of excess in Thailand and there

is no telling how many women he has infected.

His common-law wife Noi is dying from full-blown Aids, despite having survived

one of his violent attacks that could easily have taken her head off when he

lashed out at her with a sickle.

She says he attacked her when she protested against his demands of moving

another young woman into their home.

Hans-Otto’s core prey consisted of young girls, 15 and older, but only a little,

whom he wanted to “test out”.

The jail’s chief explains the situation as such: “Look, we have him on visa

charges, but we want to make it much harder for him than that . . . if we let him

go he might just go to Cambodia, Laos or Burma and keep spreading this

disease.”

During an interview inside the jail Hans-Otto says: “In Chaiyaphum, I want to kill

people.”

The health officials have requested the air conditioning be turned off and the

doors and windows opened because he smells rank. He is clearly an ill man.

In front of an audience of seven people, including journalists, jail guards and

health officials he rants and raves.

Schiemann says he never wants to return to Germany, but it is likely he’ll be

deported.

His modus operandi when free was exceedingly simple.

Public Health chief of HIV Control at Chaiyaphum Hospital, Boonyam Yorapol said

he used to approach groups of young people after school and offer them the

equivalent of their parent’s monthly wages to have unprotected sex.

He offered Bt2,000 for sex with a condom and Bt3,000 without.

Thailand’s northeastern region is populated predominantly by poor farming

families, who grow sugar cane or rice and often lead a life of subsidence.

Young people desperate for cash generally agreed to Schiemann’s demands.

The Public Health Ministry, in response to an appeal by Noi, issued a request that

all young women take blood tests, regardless of whether they had had sex with

the German.

“Blood tests are free at all state hospitals, please come to us,” said acting

provincial health chief Dr Sura Wisessak.

At least one of Schiemann’s many mistresses has tested positive. And as an

example of how this disease spreads through communities, his mistress also

slept with the village chief, who has since tested positive.

After Dr Sura’s appeal was issued, within a 24-hour period, 66 young girls had

tested positive.

This, in a town of 30,000 people, is practically akin to robbing a generation of

their lives. Yet Schiemann he is unrepentant and has refused requests for blood

tests.

“In Thailand everything is not normal,” he says, “in fact it is very un-normal.

“They say the man is free here to do as he wishes, but he is not, he must pay

the woman.

“They have taken my freedom and I cannot defend myself.”

Hans-Otto has been jailed for exceeding his 30-day tourist visa by three years.

He had been in Thailand for nine years, living off his disability pension, the result

of losing a leg in the German Navy.

He was rarely without cash, said Noi.

He lived a life of plenty in a developing country and acted as a loan shark,

according to people who lived around him.

The visa charges were all the authorities could get him on.

Kampol Nonuch, deputy head of the provincial police station, shakes his head

when asked about the case.

“In Thailand there are no laws that make that a crime, I think it’s very, very bad,

but there is nothing we can do.”

He is also obviously annoyed about the fact the man used to present himself

constantly at the police station to complain about the voracity of Thai women for

money.

Chaiyaphum province consists of one million people and about one in every

hundred is HIV/Aids positive.

At a spare room in the local hospital, children already infected, at birth, paint

and draw and laugh.

For them, this sparse and hot room is the best they get.

At home there’s not enough money for paint, for that matter not money enough

for any sort of luxury.

And so they are all smiles, despite the lesions.

Boonyam watches over them and their grandmothers care for them, ageing and

selfless women who have already watched their daughters die from a disease

that, as far as they are concerned, has no place in Thai society.

At the hospital, Boonyam is trying to teach them about safe sex. The children are

less than 10 years old. But the nurses are worried the dreaded teens are only

just around the corner. Then experimentation may begin, particularly if they are

sold-off to wealthy foreigners.

Says Hans-Otto: “They sell their children here.

“The only reason I’m in jail is because I had sex with a policeman’s daughter

who was nice, and then became nasty, after she became a singer at a nightclub.

She stole my passport and bank card . . . all of my money.

“I tried to report it to the police, they wouldn’t listen.”

It pans out that the woman was the daughter of a very senior police officer and

she has since tested positive for HIV/Aids after having unprotected sex with Hans-

Otto.

By all accounts, the police officer intends to kill Hans-Otto.

Said HIV/Aids worker Boonyam: “We don’t know how many people he has

infected, but it’s somewhere in the vicinity of 400 to 500.”

She says, once the story came out, panic ensued.

Desperate families, suddenly terrified of what might have happened, took off to

neighbouring provinces for tests, thus distorting national figures.

Boonyam dares not hazard a guess at how many people Schiemann might be

directly responsible for infecting.

Greg Rayment, an Australian teaching at one of the better schools in this hub of

education for poor rural families, says the shockwaves have struck deep.

He believes about 40 of his students are infected.

“This is a good school, very prim and proper.

“They’re obviously promiscuous, but money rules here, and there’s no sex

education, it’s taboo.”

But there’s a lot of sex; you needn’t look hard.

And that is how Hans-Otto managed, for five years, to exploit the young people

of Chaiyaphum.

But now there are thousands of posters describing Schiemann on walls in the

town, explaining that he drives a green Mitsubishi and that he is suspected of

having HIV/Aids and may request unprotected sex with minors.

She is frail but resilient.

And yet it is obvious from her hesitation when removing her jacket that she does

not wish to display her dilapidated state.

Noi is dying, of that there is no doubt.

She says she probably tested HIV positive three years ago after a blood sample

was taken at St Mary’s hospital in Korat.

But the test results were delivered in English, and that is a language sometimes

bemusing to her, particularly when it’s flawed. After the tests, her man told her

everything was okay.

And now she can’t be bothered improving her lingual abilities, because she

doesn’t have long left on this earth.

Noi’s local community has rallied around her, despite her family having shunned

her. There is always a chorus of laughter and that makes her feel better . . . at

least it is recourse from the thoughts of betrayal that dominate her mind.

She shows us the horrible scar on her neck where her partner – the man to

whom she pledged love – tried to kill her one night.

Such episodes began after Hans-Otto discovered they had both tested positive

for HIV/Aids.

And from various testimonies, from people who could not know each other, he is

said to brag inside jail about the number of girls he has infected.

Noi says he has a list of girls whom he has infected, the date of intercourse and

keeps it well hidden.

She found it.

She asks for no sympathy, she just wants to let girls know, for society’ sake, the

dangers of having intercourse with this man, no matter what the rewards.

Noi is making merit to the Lord Buddha.

If only she had known of the dangers earlier.

Rayment has offered to teach HIV/Aids education for free, there are few takers,

despite his being trained in Australia.

HIV infection rates are miniscule in his home country.

The German embassy in Bangkok, when asked for a comment replied: “Mr

Schiemann has been detained for overstaying his visa.

“There are no other allegations as far as we are aware and we have nothing

more to say about the situation.”

A local health worker, Noy, offers a simple yet heartbreaking message to Thai

women: ‘Don’t think of foreigners as gods, if we regard them as gods, we will

visit our god before our time has come.”

ENDS.

[webfact]

just seen @ BBC Web Site

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3751964.stm

[Heng]

So let's add up a few of the facts here.

A German national accused by a community in northeast Thailand of spreading HIV/AIDS among local school girls.

And who is this "community"?

Well, for starters, we got anywhere from 100-450 Thai whores who will allegedly do anything for 4,000 baht short time. Gee, that's a credible source.

Then we got his nasty HIV infected wife, who obviously has a grudge against his ex-husband. Another highly credible source.

Then there's the Thai neighbors. Oh, gee, neighbors never gossip, do they now!

What a team of reliable sources we have to go on! Gee, you almost got me convinced. But wait! Hold on! There's just one little problem.

"Health authorities in Chaiyaphum have not been able to determine whether Schiemann is HIV positive."

What! You mean after all this, we don't even know if the guy is HIV positive to begin with?

Ha! Shows how naive all of you out there were to buy into this story in the first place. What people will believe when it appears in the media! Never ceases to amaze me.

He's his own worst enemy. He is the one proclaiming to be HIV+. He is the one proclaiming that he has had sex on numerous occasions for money. He is the one proclaiming that because he has been overstay for so long that he is "Thai."

In any criminal case, if the evidence against the defendent is weak..but the accused admits to it, isn't that a basis for guilt?????

*clapping*

Yeah, I don't understand what the 'innocent till proven guilty' crowd is chanting about when the accused can't seem to keep his mouth shut. Falang gep kot. This is a farside example of what can happen to the state of mind of falangs under repressive visa/immigration laws.

[pluto_manibo]

This is a horrible story, and if all that is said about this man is true, he is a monster. However the last paragraph is absolute rubbish,

A local health worker, Noy, offers a simple yet heartbreaking message to Thai

women: ‘Don’t think of foreigners as gods, if we regard them as gods, we will

visit our god before our time has come.”

ENDS.

Just because some bitter, deranged, retired, Aids infested, German, crippled, paedophile with one leg went on a cruel rampage doesn't mean that all foreigners have to be associated to him. "Gods" give me a break in some circles we are regarded more as "Dogs".

[stroll]

Yeah, I don't understand what the 'innocent till proven guilty' crowd is chanting about when the accused can't seem to keep his mouth shut. Falang gep kot.

My main objection was against people judging and executing the guy verbally on the basis of a badly edited news clip. I stand to this.

Also, the guy is obviously very disturbed, so I wouldn't take his own statements on their own as proof for what he did, but as indicative of his intentions.

Anyway, the unedited article makes much more sense, including the comments about the policeofficer whose daughter is a victim.

[stroll]

What is fishy about my user name sTROLL ?

You registered shortly before Rod was suspended, at a time he knew he was considered to be overstepping the acceptable and anticipated the ban. Not only are you very familiar with Rod, you also continue to express the same sentiments, sounding like a Rod with amuffled voice.

I am also familiar with Rods postings, I esteem most of his comments very highly, but I'd say his compassion is clouded by anger and hate on occasions.

[katyusha]

What is fishy about my user name sTROLL ?

You registered shortly before Rod was suspended, at a time he knew he was considered to be overstepping the acceptable and anticipated the ban. Not only are you very familiar with Rod, you also continue to express the same sentiments, sounding like a Rod with amuffled voice.

I am also familiar with Rods postings, I esteem most of his comments very highly, but I'd say his compassion is clouded by anger and hate on occasions.

That's an even more idiotic reason for thinking I'm Rod than the "fascination with weapons" theory some other clownfish proposed last week. Excuse me for not registering 2 years ago and anticipating your stupid accusations.

You and the other "Katyusha is Rod" conspiracy theorists are posting just for the sake of flapping your lips. None of you have anything interesting to say.

[stroll]

Well, you've asked me to explain. But this is definetly off topic now, I won't comment further.

[poolcleaner]

I still have doubts that it's all true.

If I had time I might even pop up to Chaiyapum and check out those 'thousands of posters all over town'.

Anyone live up that way? Care to verify some of this story?

This could be a rather nasty urban legend in the making!!

Has a unpleasant anti-farang feel about it too!

[phormio]

This story made the Beeb(BBC) report USA EST 7:00 PM Monday night on PBS.

[RDN]

This story made the Beeb(BBC) report USA EST 7:00 PM Monday night on PBS.

Just click here for all the latest news:

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&...%22&btnG=Search

[axl]

I still have doubts that it's all true.

If I had time I might even pop up to Chaiyapum and check out those 'thousands of posters all over town'.

Anyone live up that way? Care to verify some of this story?

This could be a rather nasty urban legend in the making!!

Has a unpleasant anti-farang feel about it too!

The longer I follow this story I am not sure whether the journalists covering this story are manipulated or really don't know (try) better.

In newspaper articles HIV and AIDS get mixed up, then his HIV status is not proven, numbers vary like in the lottery, etc....

"I think he should be held for further investigation. It's not yet proven he has HIV yet."

contradictory statements from various publications will at least keep the print medias busy...and this thread, too...

[RDN]

I still have doubts that it's all true.

If I had time I might even pop up to Chaiyapum and check out those 'thousands of posters all over town'.

Anyone live up that way? Care to verify some of this story?

This could be a rather nasty urban legend in the making!!

Has a unpleasant anti-farang feel about it too!

My g/f just spoke to her mum who lives near Chaiyaphum. Her mother said that a man from her village went to Chaiyaphum hospital and saw the notices about the German and warnings to young girls. He also said that all the school girls in the area had been tested for HIV and that about 500 had tested positive .

The reliability of his words is, of course, open to doubt.

[Axel]

16 pages, if you read through it, it's basically mob-justice. If it is true, hang him by his balls or let him walk 100 km with one leg. Otherwise, give me a break.

I heard tonight, fearless fearless was very happy about this story, 'See? FARANG.'

[cojones]

dont understand the claims that his wife Noi is dieing , she has had enough time to arrange to get HAART drugs to keep her going . 3 years is not long from infection

and you wouldnt normally sucoumb to AIDS so quickly .

by taking AZT and DDI type daily drugs she could go on quite normally for many many years .

10+ years is not uncommon

[Sheri]

Doesn't it surprise nobody that of the so-called 500 school girls who tested HIV positive, NONE of them were tested for pregnancy?

That alone tells you the whole story is bogus. The first thing on a girl's mind when she has sex with a man is, "Am I pregnant?", not, "Did I get a disease?"

This alone confirms the story is a hoax. Nobody goes out and tests a whole school full of school girls for HIV, ignoring the pregnancy tests. First concern of any parent will be if their daughter is pregnant, not if she has an STD. Since that question was never even raised in the topic of discussion, it undermines the whole story. It's all bogus.

[meemiathai]

dont understand the claims that his wife Noi is dieing , she has had enough time to arrange to get HAART drugs to keep her going . 3 years is not long from infection

and you wouldnt normally sucoumb to AIDS so quickly .

by taking AZT and DDI type daily drugs she could go on quite normally for many many years .

10+ years is not uncommon

that was funny cojones! I liked it!

[sriracha john]

The first thing on a girl's mind when she has sex with a man is, "Am I pregnant?", not, "Did I get a disease?"

First concern of any parent will be if their daughter is pregnant, not if she has an STD. Since that question was never even raised in the topic of discussion, it undermines the whole story. It's all bogus.

Granted pregnancy is a concern, but it's not a fatal affliction for most, unlike AIDS, which is.

[stroll]

Doesn't it surprise nobody that of the so-called 500 school girls who tested HIV positive, NONE of them were tested for pregnancy?

That alone tells you the whole story is bogus. The first thing on a girl's mind when she has sex with a man is, "Am I pregnant?", not, "Did I get a disease?"

It was not mentioned whether pregnancy was tested or not, besides this would only be necessary for a small minority. Girls who had sex several months or years ago would know whether pregnancy was an issue, don't you think?

Your reasoning is unreasonable.

[RDN]

Granted pregnancy is a concern, but it's not a fatal affliction for most, unlike AIDS, which is.

Your reasoning is unreasonable.

Please don't respond to the troll, John and Stroll - ignore him/her

[britmaveric]

Better to be pregnant than have a death sentence.

[MaiSonJai]

Better to be pregnant than have a death sentence.

Any relation...

[Sheri]

Actually, pregnancy is pretty much a death sentence for a high school girl. She will completely lose face, having to drop out of school (unless she gets an abortion, which is illegal) only to be ridiculed by all her friends, family, neighbors, etc. Her life will be in shambles. On top of it, once the word gets out it was the German farang who paid her for sex, she will be branded as a whore, she will be given a death sentence of AIDS (HIV positive or not) and in a very realistic sense, her life will be ruined. Expect to see such a girl hanging on Beach Road in Pattaya, doing short time for 300-500 baht a session.

Pregnancy is far worse a fate than HIV, because being pregnant is visible. You can hide the fact you're HIV positive, live with it for years on end (only about 10% die), and enjoy a long life without anyone knowing. Try doing that on your 8th month of pregnancy while still in high school.

More so, pregnancy would be an issue if the girls were either virgin or had limited sexual experience. The fact that nobody seems to give a hoot about any of them being pregnant indicates they were already sexually active, were already making use of birth control - which means they could very well already be HIV infected.

If you argue the German infected them, you must argue they were virgins. And if you argue they are virgins, you must explain why mom and dad aren't a)climbing the walls at the possibility their daughter is pregnant, and insisting the guy marry the girl.

The whole article is filled with absurdities. No high school girl sleeps with a farang without fear of pregnancy, unless she's a pro. And if she's a pro, who's to say she already wasn't infected with HIV. Maybe one of them gave it to him, and you're her next target. That is, assuming she finds herself working down in Pattaya or Bangkok in the months or years to come.

[sriracha john]

Gosh RDN!!!..... it's sooooooo very difficult to refrain from responding to the latest crap post from the "gender-bender"....... my hands are shaking over the keyboard... but I will practice some self-control and not....

but dang is it ever difficult, RDN....

[NedKelly]

Sheri

Condoms are NOT protective of HIV in Thailand. Read the scientific journals and learn something for a change:

"Condom use was reported in 61.5% of men...but was NOT shown to be protective of prevalent HIV infection." (my caps)

Condoms PROMOTE HIV in Thailand:

"Indeed, those who reported ever having used a condom with a CSW (commercial sex worker) had a HIGHER HIV prevalence." (my caps)

Condoms DO NOTHING to stop HIV in Thailand:

"The epidemic of HIV infection has spread widely among young men in northern Thailand, DESPITE reported frequent and recent use of condom during sex with CSW's". (my caps)

(Source: Journal of American Medical Association, studies on HIV infection in Thailand).

If this German had used condoms, it wouldn't have made a difference, except to possibly infect more girls.

Quit reading media propaganda on AIDS and learn something from the scientific journals, you may actually have to use your brain to think. I know that's dangerous for some...

This is rather misleading dont you think ???

[RDN]

Gosh RDN!!!..... it's sooooooo very difficult to refrain from responding to the latest crap post from the "gender-bender"....... my hands are shaking over the keyboard... but I will practice some self-control and not....

but dang is it ever difficult, RDN....   

I get the same feeling But I just keep hoping if no one rises to the bait the trolls will turn off their computers and get on with their homework.

[stroll]

"The epidemic of HIV infection has spread widely among young men in northern Thailand, DESPITE reported frequent and recent use of condom during sex with CSW's". (my caps)

The unreliability of such statistics has been pointed out before. Note: 'reported' use of condoms. Besides, if it is true that the presence of body defense agents to deal with drugs such as methamphetamines in the blood is likely to change test results to positive, I am not surprised Northern lads prove positive despite the use of condoms.