Teaching "r"

[Rionoir]

This may be nothing, but I'll put it here in case anyone wants to try it and report back on the results.

I was in a cab with a Thai friend the other day and he saw a Rocket. After looking out the window for a "locket" for a good 30 seconds, I realized what he was trying to say. Out of curiosity, I asked him if he could roll his R... and told him to try saying rrrrrrocket with a rolled R. Then he said... ROCKET, with a perfect R, and it wasn't even rolled or flipped, he just put it in the position as if he was going to roll it I guess... either way, I couldn't believe it, it was the best R I had ever heard from a Thai. This friend generally has excellent English skills... but R was always a problem for him.

So there ya go... take it or leave it. Curious to see if it helps anyone else.

[mizzi39]

This may be nothing, but I'll put it here in case anyone wants to try it and report back on the results.

I was in a cab with a Thai friend the other day and he saw a Rocket. After looking out the window for a "locket" for a good 30 seconds, I realized what he was trying to say. Out of curiosity, I asked him if he could roll his R... and told him to try saying rrrrrrocket with a rolled R. Then he said... ROCKET, with a perfect R, and it wasn't even rolled or flipped, he just put it in the position as if he was going to roll it I guess... either way, I couldn't believe it, it was the best R I had ever heard from a Thai. This friend generally has excellent English skills... but R was always a problem for him.

So there ya go... take it or leave it. Curious to see if it helps anyone else.

I will try this on Monday with my Matayom 1 Ss and report back. If it works I will try other consonants as well. Thanks!

[PeaceBlondie]

I have noticed that when Thais do say /r/ more or less correctly, it sounds like a proper /r/ of Spanish, with the tip of the tongue definitely touching the front of the roof of the mouth. The OP is teaching //rr/ from Spanish, such as in burro and perro. Find a Thai who ends his sentences with khrap rather than cop. It may be regional.

I taught my M1 students to say, "the real red road runs over the railroad tracks"!

[DragonQuest]

Also its hard for thais to say the letter "L" sound. I find thai to be quite similar to spanish yes, and since I know spanish myself its easy for me to speak thai, and thai love my thai, they always say "Geng-mak" to me lol.

[Scott]

Most students 'get' the L and R sound through proper and good modeling. I will periodically go through it with them and then move away from it. It can get to be too frustrating for them. For example, I had an adult student who used them completely interchangeably--I never knew if his father was in the hospital because he was having trouble with his river or his liver. Then one day, it all fell in place and he almost never makes a mistake. This was after I had given up.

Since they can say both sounds, it's a matter of time and persistence. Different students will get it at different times. The one I have trouble getting corrected is the r in the middle of a word--like corn, which is often sounds like khon.

[wilko]

a Thai employee/colleague of mine asked me once what was the difference between this "l" and "r" thing, so I launched into and explanation involving "raw -rua" and "law - ling".......

"Oh" He said and thought about it for a while and then he turned round to me and said....

......"So what's the difference then?"

Many Moons ago I was in Bkk and my friend and I were determined to find a great Indian "lesterlong"...... everyone we asked agreed on the same place "Lemland". We couldn't work out where it was so one chap wrote it down for us in Thai and we showed it to a tuk-tuk driver who immediately knew the place......we shot off down Sukumvit and ended up outside an enormous hotel........."No No...I want Indian lesterlong - "Lemland"...not hotel " I pleaded....but the driver wouldn't budge....it was then I noticed the name of the hotel......

"REMBRANDT"

... I have to say if you are feeing flush there is quite a good Indian "lesterlong" on about the 27th floor...............................

Edited April 28, 2008 by wilko

[5tash]

I think you'll find that all Thais are able to pronounce the 'r' sound when it appears at the beginning of a syllable. It's just that in the Thai language a lot of Thais in everyday conversations will replace the 'r' sound with 'l'. Therefore when they attempt to speak English the 'r' is often pronounced 'l'. They don't realise that in the English language you can't replace 'r' with 'l'.

I think Thais find it a lot harder to pronounce 'r' when it's at the end of a syllable. Along with 'f', 'l', 's', 'v' and 'w'. As for 'q', 'v', 'w', 'x' and 'z' these vowels don't appear in the Thai alphabet, Thai people also have difficulty with these.

[elkangorito]

The swapping of the "L" & "R" sounds seems to be quite typical for Asian people. For my students, whom I've been teaching for about 2.5 years, I never let them get away with such things as;

a] swapping the "L" & "R".

b] not using "S" at the end of plurals &,

c] not inserting the article (the, a, an..although "an" has some rules attached to it).

Persistence pays off as my students are slowly but surely remembering to apply these "rules".

To me, it's a matter of concept. I know many Australians who insist upon saying things like, "I should of done....", instead of saying, "I should have done....". They are quite clearly, very incorrect. I've even argued with them about this but to no avail.

How many people on Thaivisa say things like, "I would rather do this then blah blah", instead of saying, "I would rather do this than blah blah."

I think that it's easier to teach non-native speakers correct English then it is to teach native speakers...or shouldn't I of said this?

[tigerboy]

I taught my M1 students to say, "the real red road runs over the railroad tracks"!

That's a good one that you can have some fun with I bet! I've used "Larry was Rarely really very good", to help students differentiate between the R and the L sounds.

[Jimmyd]

I must be weird. I just keep wondering how strange it is to see a rocket from a cab.

[wilko]

I really feel that in the interests of intelligibility it is pretty pointless spending much time on "L" & "R", together with "TH" and several other relatively minor points.

We all understand "FLYED LICE" etc and there isn't really a hindrance to comprehension or a significant gain from spending a lot of time on this sort of thing. also trying to get students to do this can in some cases make them feel inadequate and have a detrimental result on their fluency...as they are thinking about pronunciation of individual words rather than the meaning of the whole sentence.....

Edited May 15, 2008 by wilko