Work Permit/no Degree

[ticonderoga]

I tought in a private school in Chantaburi from Jan-March 2008. I liked the job very much and they were very pleased with my work. They wish to hire me back and also follow all the procedures correctly however I have only a 120 hour TEFL certificate and no college degree. This is not so much a problem with the Ministry of Education. As far as I can tell it lies within the Ministry of Employment. I am currently operating on a non "o" retirement visa that expires on June 9th.

I am instructed by my TEFL school that there are plenty of jobs in Bangkok with no such requirement (or perhaps it is they overlook this requirement). A job in Bangkok is not very appealing to me.My home is in Chantaburi What can I do? And what is the actual law regarding this? How is it that Bangkok schools can flaunt this apparent requirement?

[TerryLH]

It might be a visa issue. They probably won't issue a WP on a retirement visa.

It's been reported at times that some offices will, but most won't, and with those that have done so, there doesn't appear to be much consistency.

Have your school ask if they'll issue a WP if you have a B visa.

[culicine]

It might be a visa issue. They probably won't issue a WP on a retirement visa.

It's been reported at times that some offices will, but most won't, and with those that have done so, there doesn't appear to be much consistency.

Have your school ask if they'll issue a WP if you have a B visa.

Yes, actually you aren't supposed to work on a retirement visa. But I'm sure many people do. If done privately on the quiet there should be no problems. Working for a school could be a problem. I don't know of anyone working at a school on a retirment visa - most old folks are married and on the O-visa, and on that you can work.

[PeaceBlondie]

Ticonderoga, you never know. They just might issue those in Chantaburi on an odd-numbered Thursday that follows a prior month's even-numbered Wednesday. Try next Thursday. Oh no, that is a holiday. Sorry.

Also, if you are over 60, it is less likely you will get a work permit, but private schools are not as strict as public schools. Good luck.

[DragonQuest]

If you can get a work permit with no degree then how about a work permit with no teaching license certificate?(or TEFL for that matter)

[Scott]

This country is so confusing!

A lot of schools will hire you to work without getting a WP or TL, if they can do it. If you have a visa, you will be technically working illegally, but a lot of places don't seem to care about that.

[PeaceBlondie]

This country is so confusing!

A lot of schools will hire you to work without getting a WP or TL, if they can do it. If you have a visa, you will be technically working illegally, but a lot of places don't seem to care about that.

A lot of teachers don't care, either. They are so desperate to work in the Land of Simplicities that they will risk the penalties, whilst the schools take very little risk.

[wilko]

As far I as I can find out....it's the LAW......but of course that doesn't mean it can't be done. A lot of places won't hire you because they don't have a pet Labour dept. officer etc etc....

I do know several teachers who shit themselves every time there is a reported "clamp-down" or check on unqualified teachers.

[Ijustwannateach]

As far as I am aware, it is still possible for non-degreed TEFLers in public schools to get work permits and all the correct paperwork, though it is getting harder and I don't recommend it as a plan for the future. A lot depends on how much a school is willing to vouch for you. Good luck.

[jingjingna]

I know for a fact that atleast one teacher at one of the big private Catholic schools has no degree but has a work permit and teaching license. Depends how good you are on the job and whether the school itself recognises this!

[pattaya001]

As far I as I can find out....it's the LAW......but of course that doesn't mean it can't be done. A lot of places won't hire you because they don't have a pet Labour dept. officer etc etc....

I do know several teachers who shit themselves every time there is a reported "clamp-down" or check on unqualified teachers.

What happens to the teachers who are paper qualified, but work without wp's, are they any less ''clamped-down'' on? A question from a about to be graduate who wishes to get back on the teaching ladder. Any help appreciated wilko.

[PeaceBlondie]

As far I as I can find out....it's the LAW......but of course that doesn't mean it can't be done. A lot of places won't hire you because they don't have a pet Labour dept. officer etc etc....

I do know several teachers who shit themselves every time there is a reported "clamp-down" or check on unqualified teachers.

What happens to the teachers who are paper qualified, but work without wp's, are they any less ''clamped-down'' on? A question from a about to be graduate who wishes to get back on the teaching ladder. Any help appreciated wilko.

The answer to your question is a definite maybe, and is being debated constantly here and elsewhere (for example, about volunteer teachers in the Chiang Mai forum of ThaiVisa). Teachers with BA/BSc degrees who teach without a work permit are at risk. The amount of risk is debatable, but I think we agree it is far less risky than teaching with phony-fake degree papers. Thousands of farang teachers, including many of us posters, taught without work permit. It is risky.

[pattaya001]

Very fair comment. Whatever happened to the link I read some months back about starting out in Thailand, starting to teach. This one fellow poster harped on about how expensive it is to get recognised by the school, the flight to get the WP, the police check, the translation of docs, the loss of dipsoable income if there is not immediate full-time status and according salary whilst waiting to upgrade from part-timer to full-timer on a ''probationary period'' and then the ''tri-monthly'' border crossings to get a visa stamp in the passport. Would I be right in assuming that is takes a good five-six months before having cleared the debt of a starter teacher, or do private schools help somewhere along the line? I do recall they help with some provisos, but it has been some time since I last wore a tie. Thanks for thaivisa link.

[PeaceBlondie]

Very fair comment. Whatever happened to the link I read some months back about starting out in Thailand, starting to teach. This one fellow poster harped on about how expensive it is to get recognised by the school, the flight to get the WP, the police check, the translation of docs, the loss of dipsoable income if there is not immediate full-time status and according salary whilst waiting to upgrade from part-timer to full-timer on a ''probationary period'' and then the ''tri-monthly'' border crossings to get a visa stamp in the passport. Would I be right in assuming that is takes a good five-six months before having cleared the debt of a starter teacher, or do private schools help somewhere along the line? I do recall they help with some provisos, but it has been some time since I last wore a tie. Thanks for thaivisa link.

Your mileage will vary. By the way, your sentences are a bit long and hard to follow. It can take a year or two to get started here. You might take two months of getting here and taking a four-week course and finding a job. Then one full month before the first full paycheck. Possible unpaid months in March-April-May and in October. You might quit or get fired in the first few months. You might have to go to a neighboring country to get a good visa. Etc. Only the best international schools help much with air fare, fees, etc.; you are not that well qualified. You might pay for visa, work permit, TCT culture course, TCT professional course and tests, etc. (which can total 150,000).

But since I have been so roundly condemned for discouraging folks from coming to Thailand, I encourage you to come, complete with fresh degree, wife, baby, etc. Come on in, take a good TEFL course, and enjoy the wonderful, wacky world of Thai TEFL.

[pattaya001]

Okay. There is much within the lines to save for future teaching. Intersting how you mention a better provision of ''visa'' working outside Thailand and the other costs you mention. Lots to take on board. I appreciate your honest comments and thoughts. Thanks.

[Ijustwannateach]

I have been provisionally encouraging to you, Pattaya001, mainly based on the fact that you seem determined to be settled in Thailand and your visa will not necessarily be through your job (you are married to a Thai, after all).

[Scott]

I know a number of teachers who have "O" visas and don't want to change them. As a result they forego the work permit. Since their paperwork as a teacher doesn't go to the Ministry of Education or Labor, they are going to be hard to 'find' by the authorities in a clamp down. Quite a few of these folks could be legal (have a degree etc.).

I have advised them that I don't mind them doing this, but that the day may come when the relevant departments figure this out and decide to 'clamp down' on it.

These people are probably in better shape than the phoney degree people because it would be rather cumbersome to 'prove' they are working, since officially they don't appear anywhere. Of course, if someone actually investigated they could find out but that would be more on the order of a witch hunt than a crack down.

[wilko]

THe easiest way to find a non-legal teacher is to walk into his class and ask to see his work permit.

This doesn't happen often, but it HAS happened.

The main risk being that someone doesn't like you for some reason. All they have to do then is give your name to immigration or the police and "Bob's your Uncle"..........

so work without documentation and you are leaving yourself vulnerable.

Edited June 16, 2008 by wilko

[Loaded]

THe easiest way to find a non-legal teacher is to walk into his class and ask to see his work permit.

This doesn't happen often, but it HAS happened.

When?

Where?

Were you a 1st/2nd/3rd hand 'witness'?

[wilko]

PM me with your verifiable personal details.....

[Loaded]

PM me with your verifiable personal details.....

So you can't tell me where or when. The cynic in me says you just made it up.

Don't try and present this information as confidential and that you can't say. If it happened, why would it be?

Edited June 16, 2008 by Loaded

[wilko]

PM me with your verifiable personal details.....

So you can't tell me where or when. The cynic in me says you just made it up.

Don't try and present this information as confidential and that you can't say. If it happened, why would it be?

For me to know and you to wonder....are you worried for yourself????

[PeaceBlondie]

Wilko, Loaded is legal, so you do not need to accuse him. You made a claim, and choose not to back it uo.

[wilko]

The only claim he has made is that I'm a liar.....this is a web site...not a court of law...the situation is that if he wants the background he will have to be bona fide, I'm not revealing any more details and am under no obligation to.

It is now extremely unlikely I would tell him/her anyway.

there are plenty of people on this site who actually know the incident I'm talking about, and I'm sure similar incidents. I've even explained how it can happen.....I don't think you need any more info than that.

the whole point of a web site like this is one doesn't rely or have to rely on indepth certifiable references...if we did you would have to delete alomst every post for the last few years.

i've offered to give him the info in a certain why......i now with draw that offer.

It seems that his hysterical response is very similar to that of someone with something to hide....presumably if you think he is "legal" then you will do the same as he asks and show me his papers......to be honest I really don't need to see them but I'm sure you take my point.

Edited June 16, 2008 by wilko

[PeaceBlondie]

THe easiest way to find a non-legal teacher is to walk into his class and ask to see his work permit.

This doesn't happen often, but it HAS happened.

When?

Where?

Were you a 1st/2nd/3rd hand 'witness'?

Now, that is a reasonable request. I think the year it happened, and the province, and a simple statement that you were a direct witness of the non-legal teacher being asked by some officer who walked into the class during the incident. Or, that you heard it from somebody who heard that it happened.

So, there is no evidence here that such a thing happened at a certain time and place. Loaded did not call you a liar. He asked you to give minimal verification, and you refuse to do so. To be fair, I retract my statement that you were accusing Loaded.

[Loaded]

i've offered to give him the info in a certain why......i now with draw that offer.

OK, send your information to a Mod such as Peaceblondie by pm, and then they can then report back as to the veracity of your allegation. No need to report the details of the incident on here. Fair?

I take allegations such as yours seriously as there is too much unsubstantiated rumour and speculation on teacher web forums. It can destroy the confidence of prospective teachers and can turn postive attitudes of experienced teachers negative.

Substantiate your comment with evidence Wilco. This is rule 1 from the Forum rules:

"1) You will not use thaivisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, referencing prostitution (including bargirls and barboys), referencing suicide, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law."

[wilko]

Why am I still talking to you ??

It's a perfectly good warning...take it or leave it.

None of the above applies and I you substantiate your claims as to your legallity asserted by PB , I'll consider revealing my sources....................i'm sorry but I'm sick to death of the lop-sided sanctimonious right-wing hoo-haa generated by some of the people on this site who really should \know better.

I repeat is has happened - if you want references you can either come to me with bona fide credentials or live in the murky world of petty regulations that you try to interpret to your own whimsical ways.

i wouldn't send my soiled underwear to a moderator. (Or you)

Edited June 17, 2008 by wilko

[aussiestyle1983]

THe easiest way to find a non-legal teacher is to walk into his class and ask to see his work permit.

This doesn't happen often, but it HAS happened.

The main risk being that someone doesn't like you for some reason. All they have to do then is give your name to immigration or the police and "Bob's your Uncle"..........

so work without documentation and you are leaving yourself vulnerable.

Regardless of what the whingers and sceptics think in regards to this post, common sense is enough to remind me that whether or not this has happened, it would be very easy to happen and no one would know what was going on until it would be too late to run and hide in the school's basement.

Thanks for reminding us how easy it would be to get busted if you are working without a work permit.

It seems like although there are supposed to be no spelling or grammar nazzis in there forum, there can be burden of proof nazzis For those who asked wilko to back up his claim, are you going to back up every claim you make from now on?

[wilko]

THe easiest way to find a non-legal teacher is to walk into his class and ask to see his work permit.

This doesn't happen often, but it HAS happened.

The main risk being that someone doesn't like you for some reason. All they have to do then is give your name to immigration or the police and "Bob's your Uncle"..........

so work without documentation and you are leaving yourself vulnerable.

Regardless of what the whingers and sceptics think in regards to this post, common sense is enough to remind me that whether or not this has happened, it would be very easy to happen and no one would know what was going on until it would be too late to run and hide in the school's basement.

Thanks for reminding us how easy it would be to get busted if you are working without a work permit.

It seems like although there are supposed to be no spelling or grammar nazzis in there forum, there can be burden of proof nazzis For those who asked wilko to back up his claim, are you going to back up every claim you make from now on?

thank you - a voice of reason....at present I have to say I've completely lost patience with the other 2 posters. all over a perfectly useful piece of advice.

[aussiestyle1983]

THe easiest way to find a non-legal teacher is to walk into his class and ask to see his work permit.

This doesn't happen often, but it HAS happened.

The main risk being that someone doesn't like you for some reason. All they have to do then is give your name to immigration or the police and "Bob's your Uncle"..........

so work without documentation and you are leaving yourself vulnerable.

Regardless of what the whingers and sceptics think in regards to this post, common sense is enough to remind me that whether or not this has happened, it would be very easy to happen and no one would know what was going on until it would be too late to run and hide in the school's basement.

Thanks for reminding us how easy it would be to get busted if you are working without a work permit.

It seems like although there are supposed to be no spelling or grammar nazzis in there forum, there can be burden of proof nazzis For those who asked wilko to back up his claim, are you going to back up every claim you make from now on?

thank you - a voice of reason....at present I have to say I've completely lost patience with the other 2 posters. all over a perfectly useful piece of advice.

I don't blame you; I would have done the same. In fact, reading some of the other posts reminded me of the reason why I don't post much on here anyomre