Kindergarten

[baannambua]

Hi

I'm returning to Thailand within the next few months and wanted to teach KG classes and younger students. I used to live in North East Thailand and teach English at the school round the corner from our house, I used to pick up my girlfreinds youngest daughter from school and ended up working there for a few weeks with the youngest kids teaching them the very basics but I really loved it.

They ended up offering me a full time job but I was returning to the UK so i couldn't accept it. Now circumstances in the UK have changed for me and I want to go back, however I don't have a degree.

I've read all the arguments about teaching with no degree etc. Obviously having a degree shows dedication,hardworking and determind character etc but I don't have one, I have been to college and have had many differant jobs but don't have a degree. I know it's possible to work without one but all the jobs I have seen advertised for KG teachers and primary teachers ask for people applying to have a degree. How do I find a job without having a degree?

Hope can get some good advice on here and not just verbal abuse.

Thanks guys.

[wangsuda]

How do I find a job without having a degree?

Right now, you don't - at least not a long term job. I'm sure Siam Computer or English First will hire you, but you will be on the low end of the income scale. Additionally, jobs offered by those companies will either be short term, low hourly wage, or both. If you wish to stay ong term here, or get a job that pays a living wage, get your degree. It's that simple.

[baannambua]

How do I find a job without having a degree?

Right now, you don't - at least not a long term job. I'm sure Siam Computer or English First will hire you, but you will be on the low end of the income scale. Additionally, jobs offered by those companies will either be short term, low hourly wage, or both. If you wish to stay ong term here, or get a job that pays a living wage, get your degree. It's that simple.

I'd heard of alot of people without degrees getting fulltime jobs, and even on occasion teaching lisence and work permit granted so long a the employee showed they were good workers and team players. Even if on the lower end of the pay scale still earning 25,-35,000. Is this completley out the question?

[wangsuda]

How do I find a job without having a degree?

Right now, you don't - at least not a long term job. I'm sure Siam Computer or English First will hire you, but you will be on the low end of the income scale. Additionally, jobs offered by those companies will either be short term, low hourly wage, or both. If you wish to stay ong term here, or get a job that pays a living wage, get your degree. It's that simple.

I'd heard of alot of people without degrees getting fulltime jobs, and even on occasion teaching lisence and work permit granted so long a the employee showed they were good workers and team players. Even if on the lower end of the pay scale still earning 25,-35,000. Is this completley out the question?

It's pretty much the end of that era. By 2009 (unless drastic changes are made in employment regulations) all people wishing to be teachers my have at least a verifiable university degree. For a complete list of requirements for teaching, please go here. And yes, you "hear" about people, and yes, they do exist - but the majority of people who have full-time jobs, complete with teaching permissions (what you called a license, AKA sor chor 11) and teaching appointments (sor chor 18 or 19) are few and far between. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the Thai government, at this time, wants more stringent employment requirements. That's not to say it will all change in a few months. You can always try, and you might get lucky. You never know here!

[PeaceBlondie]

I think a native speaker with no degree, limited experience, out in Isaan, would not earn 20K for eleven months per year. But since I've never been to Isaan, and I've been to Oklahoma (my kids were born there, but they really don't remember), for all I know, schools in Isaan might be paying 59,000 baht per month to male teachers of kindergarten. I'll stick with the 19K estimate, however.

[withnail]

I would say that the reality is that by 2999 all teachers wishing to teach in Thailand will be here teaching if they so wish. It is and will continue to be difficult to get 100% legal in your position but I don't agree that earning 25 to 35 (pushing it slightly now maybe) in Isaan is out of the question.

The focus of internet discussion at the moment is of new government regulations which, personally, I would describe as ambitious. I will be trying my best to abide by them, but if 2009 really is the end of an era where money talks and corruption, well, corrupts, then Thailand is going to be a very different place.

What ever happens remember Isaan is not Bangkok. If you know people at your local school with any influence I'm sure they could/can/will always be able to work something out.

Yours, always optimistically.

Withnail

[PeaceBlondie]

Withnail, I apologize if my low-ball estimate of 19K is too low for an inexperienced, no-degree, no-TEFL cert-holder in rural Isaan, who wants to teach kindie as a male. Surely there are several experienced, degreed teachers in the larger schools and cities there who make 30K salary plus 10K private teaching. But the OP would have to get really lucky to earn 30K. IMHO.

I agree that in remote rural areas, puuyai who went to school with the current govt. officers, 20 years ago, can pull strings that are nonexistent in BKK. That is probably why they knew I did not need a work permit in the province I worked in for 3.5 semesters. I parked in a no-parking zone once and when the cop came in to inform me, all I got was a most respectful wai for being the farang ajarn.

[withnail]

Lucky yes, but I doubt 25 is completely out of the question.

[baannambua]

Sorry for any confusion in my first post, I was only talking about teaching in isaan because that was the last experience I had with teaching. I am planning on doing my TEFL and going about things the correct way and to be as legitimate as possible but being 100% legal will be impossible for me without having a degree.

Obvioulsy i'd like to find work where I can make the most amount of money,however money isn't my prime concern. I'd prefer to find a good school with a secure job that pays less, rather than a high wage in a bad school with an uncertain future.

I'm not restricted to isaan. I can work pretty much wherever the demand is. I had a good long look at the link wangsuda suggested to read, I didn't read all 26 pages of it but had quite a good look, by the sounds of things if they want all teachers to be 100% legal then they are going to lose alot of teachers arn't they? Obviosly the education of the children and adults is important but the argument of degree and no degree has been had a hundred times on here. I think it just comes down the skill of the individual person.

Sorry to go off my main topic which boils down to, with all these new regulations, "teachers exams",clamp downs etc can people without degrees still find work in Thailand and where can thse jobs be found? I don't want to teach university students or highschool even, just younger kids either kindergarten or primary schools.

Thanks for replies so far.

[jingjingna]

Sorry to bash all the 'must have degree' bashers, But it is VERY possible to get a good teaching job here, with Work Permit and license, providing of course that you can cary out your duties. Even easier to achieve for women, I might add!

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, jingjingna, in certain places, for the right people, up until now, it has been reasonably easy to get "good" teaching jobs here and there. But it has always been easier for those with degrees, other factors being the same. And if we can read Thai handwriting on the wall, it appears it is getting tougher for non-degreed teachers to get jobs with WP's. Yes, women are more in demand, especially for anubahn (kindergarten) or early prathom.

We do try to avoid the degree/no degree arguments, though. We are discussing it here because it relates to the OP.

Not only do TEFL course providers sponsor this forum, but several of our (unnamed) posters work for TEFL courses. If they limited their enrollees to students who proved they had degrees, their income would decrease. However, they have shown me that their 'graduates' do get jobs in Thailand, and sometimes get work permits. OTOH, some of their graduates, like myself with a degree, never got WP's.

[Scott]

Putting the legalities aside, the biggest problem that you face in trying to teach is getting the appropriate visa that will allow you to stay in the country. A lot of schools don't care whether you have a degree or not and will quite happily employ you--under the table, but they can't assist you in getting a visa and work permit.

We have a number of teacher's who we've signed up for the Thai Cultural Training. Included in this are people who are prospective employees--not working for us at the time. They want to take the course, however, because their long term plan is to teach. They apparently can't attend without all the paperwork (including a degree). This may be a one off because I don't technically know what the Thai Teacher's Council needs, but that's what we had to provide them with for those taking it.

The little ones are lovely to teach. Best of luck to you.

[10027586]

Scott, a visa of some kind is not such a problem for any British people here. For those who don't know, Hull consulate are handing out 12-month O visas like confetti. I know this as my partner is currently in the UK sorting hers out. In that respect, if one wishes to teach 'under-the-table' (or 'hidden-in-cupboards' as one local school did during an immigration raid) it is possible to get a visa to stay here.

PS yes the little ones are great. I've had some experience with them and having taught k2 -> G10 at various points in the last 12 months the little ones are always the most fun.

Edited May 8, 2008 by 10027586

[Scott]

I know that some embassies are quite lax. I interviewed a guy why came with an "O" visa. I asked him and he told me he wanted to work in Thailand and they said then you need an "O" visa and gave it to him!!!

This guy can rather easily become legit--he's got a degree, a TEFL etc. He has the luxury of time to find the right place for him!

[10027586]

That's pretty much my partner's situation, she's completing her degree and the O buys her some time and presumably it can be converted (if not another quick trip to the UK will be in order).

[Scott]

Oh, I don't think she would have to go all the way back to the UK to get a B visa.

Best of luck.

[10027586]

Probably not but I tend to plan around the "oh my god the skies are raining crap" scenario just in case!

[Ijustwannateach]

^That's actually a pretty good plan here, usually. CYA the first time, and then cya again, and if in doubt, cya. Assume you're being managed by evil Martian cats who plan to ruin your life, and be pleasantly surprised if it's not true (and *protect* the good bosses when you find 'em!)

[favre360]

I just got a 1 year contract with a reputable kindergarten for 38,000 a month. I have no degree, TEFL, or TESOL. As long as you have refrences and a brain you should be fine. Thai people (and some farang) in the education industry like to make you think its impossible to get a job without degrees, wp's, visas etc, but at the end of the day its really just a lot of talk. Thai style, as long as things look good, everyone gets to keep face and you don't need a degree to keep face. The answer to your question is yes, you can do it.

[favre360]

p.s- Its probably a bit late for you to find a job now as most positions have been filled.... my school starts the 15th but I think most start the 20th.

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, it is probably too late to find a good job. But from the sudden number of last-minute job ads being posted, it is never too late to find a bad job.

[Ijustwannateach]

It's NEVER to late to find a bad job!!!

[wangsuda]

It's rather scary when people boast of their lack of education and teaching qualifications, and in the same breath boast that they teach children. Teaching kindergarten is far more difficult than it looks, especially if you plan on being more than Bozo the Clown.

[twschw]

^^

[baannambua]

Thanks for the good replies.

I don't think he was boasting about his lack of qualifications, maybe just trying to make it perfectly clear that it's not impossible to find a job without having a degree. And 38,000 sounds very reasonable.

I wasn't actually planning on coming that soon, maybe in October. What are the best and worse times to seek employment? If it's going to make things harder for me then maybe i'll come before or after october depending on which is the better time to arrive regarding employment.

Thanks again for the feedback.

[twschw]

October is a good time for one project I know of. PM me and I will tell you the details.

[10027586]

October can be good, teachers depart in the inter-semester break and replacements are needed. Best time though is in the couple of months before the start of the school year. Certainly my school is still scrambling for teachers and it's May, and they've been doing so since Feb. That is probably the best time to look as you can then take your pick from a wider selection and find something that's really right.