Advice?

[10027586]

I've now finished my first year teaching computer science (primary and secondary) in Thailand. I am English, have a BSc and TEFL, and am about as legal as one can be in present circumstances. This is good. My school, well the kids are great, the facilities are average, but the bitching in the staffroom is a nightmare (had a few near punch-ups take place), and frankly our headmistress is a real nightmare.

So, to the head mistress [falang, British if it's at all relevant] (the crux of the problem). She is, as mentioned, a nightmare. She drinks. Lots. With parents. And the kids are in the same bar. The kids see her absolutely plastered on a regular basis.

Problem 1. She fails to separate social life from work.

This manifests itself in a number of ways. The first is the fairly normal one of her drinking buddies among the staff getting certain favours. This I can handle, basic office politics at worst. However, bigger problems occur once you get to the parents she drinks with. Try telling off the kids of those parents. Bad idea. The kids in question know this. How do you maintain classroom order in that situation? Well, I managed it, mostly by gaining the respect of those students, but it certainly added to my problems.

Problem 2. Do as I say and not as I do.

This one's more funny than problematic, but I thought I'd bring it up to demonstrate the calibre of person being dealt with here. Many teachers meetings would feature her berating staff for lateness/absence (incidentally my record is 0 lates and 2 days off due to illness). This would be fine if she was not in fact the worst offender. Co-incidentally her days off/lateness usually coincide with drinking sessions the previous night.

Problem 3. Belittling teachers in front of students and teachers

If you're on her shit-list, you'll get bollocked in front of the kids, other teachers, wherever she likes really.

Problem 4. Bitching behind people's backs

Every meeting she bemoans the Thai admin management types failures for whatever reason. Never to their faces though. Further, she continually stirs and bitches about individual teachers, and I bear the brunt of this (hence me writing this post) most of the time.

Problem 5. Her children must get GPA 4.0

No, really they must. If the scores have to be tippex-ed out then they must. Add to that her tendency to require that the answerkey is submitted before the exam is sat (is this normal?) and one must consider the possibility that her children are seeing the papers. It is certainly the case that their exam performance is remarkable when little work is produced in term and what is produced is of a markedly lower quality than other students in their grades.

Problem 6. Plotting and scheming

Seriously, she spends her whole time scheming, possibly because she is not given enough work in her role. Be it enforcing movements of teachers in offices in which she does not sit, against the will of the heads of primary and secondary, ensuring that certain teachers can stay even without a degree and others cannot, etc.

Problem 7. She's a habitual liar.

She cannot tell the truth. She confided in another teacher that she had pretended to have cancer to get some time off. Yep, you read that right. That's the kind of person I'm dealing with.

Now, the thing is, I like teaching. I love the kids, I don't really care that the wages are low as I have a decent lifestyle on it and I'm not here for the money, and I just want to do something useful out here. She really is the only thing that makes it unbearable here.

So the advice bit.. There's a job possibility in Bangkok which pays more money for less hours with less management 'interference' (I know someone working there). I don't really like Bangkok, I love this little place I'm in, and I know that the other school is not going to satisfy me from a teaching point of view, frankly standards are lower. So what to do? Get her out? (if so how?) Stick it out? Look for another job?

Has anyone else out there got similar tails? Are all teaching jobs prone to these problems? Is this normal?

As I said, I love teaching, I'm happiest when I'm in the classroom and love it when I see that little magic moment when a kid suddenly figures something out that's been driving him/her nuts for ages. I can't give that up, so I have to find a solution.

So.. flame away!

[PeaceBlondie]

Take the other job. Get the H_ll out of Dodge. Let somebody else deal with this witch. Save your sanity. Try to get a decent referral from your current school, and move on with your career. She can ruin you.

I'm often mistaken, but I say run away.

[LaoPo]

Sounds like a real nice Lady....

Take some time off to learn how to breath again.

After that, consider the option of having your own after school educational 'help' class, helping a few good students. This, because you like your own little place.

First leave and after you've found yourself again, you could start talking to some parents who can afford the extra money.

But, don't fight this woman; bad for your health and heart !

LaoPo

[Slip]

leave now.

Some of your hassle is just TIT- my school can certainly tick a couple of those boxes, but it sounds like you're suffering too much. PM me i might have a job to interest you.

[TEFLMike]

So, to the head mistress [falang, British if it's at all relevant] (the crux of the problem). She is, as mentioned, a nightmare. She drinks. Lots. With parents. And the kids are in the same bar. The kids see her absolutely plastered on a regular basis.

Jeez! Where is this school please? Certainly not in Chonburi, bars are hit and miss. And the Kraoke bars sell Singah at 130 Baht for a small bottle near moi.

Good luck. I too am seeking out a new school and finding it difficult. not because I cannot get a position, I have Been offered two, due to the fact that I am not sure of anywhere outside of Chonburi and Pattaya.

Moi has also been offered a position at a Boarding College in Loie, near Udan Thani, however, it is 25k from the nearest town. I am in a quandry.

Too say the least.

I am unsure of districts in GKK alao.

Onwards and upwards

[10027586]

First of all thanks for the replies. To those saying leave, that's what a number of teachers have done. We lost 5 teachers in a 3-teacher kinder dept the last 12 months, half the primary and half the secondary teachers. Of those I spoke to upon departure (ie 90%) they invariably blamed the demon headmistress.

Couple of extra things I forgot to include in the original war & peace (yep, sorry it's so long).. Teaching observation. Not one other teacher had an obs. I was observed the day I came back from a Renong run. I was absolutely knackered and I can say with some confidence that the day was chosen for that reason. Needless to say, I'm apparantly a terrible teacher.

References aren't too much of a problem, I'm on excellent terms with the heads of primary and secondary, just not the head of the school as a whole, so I can easily get a ref from them. Plus I have other ways and means I should probably not discuss on a public forum!

LaoPo - that makes a good deal of sense, I know a few people who have done similar things though it's not that easy to be legal doing that. Presumably it'd mean a quick trip to Hull to get an O visa to buy myself a year.

Regards fighting her.. thing is she's wrecking a decent school, and I don't like to see what's happening. Lots of people have simply fled, deciding it's too much to take, but I really want to get the school up to scratch, which would only take a few small fixes (one of which would be her departure). I just feel that walking away would be giving up and letting her win, which isn't my idea of fun.

The thing that's keeping me sane at the moment is that the average tenure of a head teacher is apparantly 18 months or so, so hopefully she'll be gone soon!

[garro]

You sound like you have made up your mind to stay there. If that is the case then I would make the following suggestions based on my own many experiences of being in the same position. Work around her. Remind yourself that you are there for the students and not for her. Try and be cordial with her and don't bother plotting against her. If what you say is true she will soon burn herself out.

[LaoPo]

Regards fighting her.. thing is she's wrecking a decent school, and I don't like to see what's happening. Lots of people have simply fled, deciding it's too much to take, but I really want to get the school up to scratch, which would only take a few small fixes (one of which would be her departure). I just feel that walking away would be giving up and letting her win, which isn't my idea of fun.

The thing that's keeping me sane at the moment is that the average tenure of a head teacher is apparantly 18 months or so, so hopefully she'll be gone soon!

OK, who was/is responsible for her appointment when she was (at a certain moment) hired ? Surely there must some sort of a committee ? Isn't it possible to talk to them with a group of people or maybe even write a detailed report about this.....woman ?

Or am I silly now ?

LaoPo

[jumnien]

If you were hired to supervise this woman then get off your butt and do your job. If supervising her isn't part of your job description, then just do your job or move on. Be happy, don't worry!

[Ijustwannateach]

Schools in Thailand go bad sometimes, especially because of poor management and poor judgment by private ownership (sometimes these are the same thing). There's no way to fix it- usually it entails changing jobs. You don't tell higher-ups in Thailand how to solve their problems because they shoot the messengers; you desert them and let nature take its course. Not terribly convenient for you, but it's better either than staying where you are or leaving at a time of their choosing rather than your own.

By the way, please don't publicly post the name of this school (or any other readily identifiable signs) as with the present level of detail I would be forced to delete the thread- we don't name AND shame schools here.

"S"

[adjan jb]

Problem 2.

Co-incidentally her days off/lateness usually coincide with drinking sessions the previous night.

Shower her with alcoholic presents. Chances are she won't show up the morning after.

[culicine]

What on earth is the Thai admin doing about this? A 'falang headmistress'? Is this an International School? Who hired her? Drinking and cavorting with parents and kids seeing her plastered? This teacher wouldn;t last 5 minutes in my school. I would suggest you get all the other teachers together and voice your opinions with the Thai admin. We wrote a letter regarding problems associated with one teacher here, and this teacher was let go at the end of the contract. If your school refuses to let the headmistress go, then you should find another job (and post all the details on the 'new' teflwatch board - sorry, forgot the address. Don't let this issue go!

[Ski_Goong]

Sounds like a real nice Lady....

LaoPo

Sounds like you are working for my ex-wife.

If I were you, I would buy the school and turn it into the Garden of Eden. If you can't do that, than...ummm...leave.

[PeaceBlondie]

I have seen the special class of 31 students I dearly loved, get mired through worse and worse hirings, mis-administrations, etc., until the program imploded. They are currently advertising for 20K a month, meaning more Filipinas (who teach math and science well), but the mini-fake-MEP finally died. And there were no demonic she-devils there like your wicked headmistress. You cannot save the planet at the school you now are at. It is not your responsibility to burden yourself with these problems. Leave.

[Scott]

Wow, best of luck to you.

In the end the decision to stay or leave will have to be made by you alone based on how much crap she gives you. As long as you can stay out of her crosshairs, you may be OK, but it sure isn't a pleasant work environment.

A lot of schools have the same sort of problems, however, I don't know of any that can top yours. Alcohol abuse is a BIG problem among foreign teachers and you sure got one with an enormous problem. Unless you work for an international school that has headquarters outside of the country, be very careful about taking her on. If she was hired by the Thai admininstration, then you would be seen as the problem if you talk to them about it. It's the loss of face thing.

I've worked in a similar situation some time back, but fortunately for me, I wasn't subject to the crap of the head person--just the mismanagement of things. So I felt no need to leave. (By the way, I now has his job and he has been 'demoted'. This happened because the Thai administration saw what was going on made the decision on their own.

Again, best of luck.

Keep us posted.

[10027586]

By the way, please don't publicly post the name of this school (or any other readily identifiable signs) as with the present level of detail I would be forced to delete the thread- we don't name AND shame schools here.

"S"

Don't worry, I've read the rules, I felt it prudent to do so before posting this thread due to the potentially combustible nature of it.

I'm in agreement that filipino teachers teach maths and science well, our filipino teachers take these subjects and frankly run rings around the falang teachers, and are largely more professional (in my school).

Regards the drinking problem, there is a drinking culture at the school, and certainly this is not helped by the poor lead shown by Miss ****. This could be one of the causes of my problems here as I don't drink very often (last time was 3 drinks at Songkran and before that 2 bottles at New Year's Eve).

There are other teachers who have similar views to myself about her (indeed most of them) but I'm old enough and wise enough to know that whoever sticks his/her neck out on this one is going to find it chopped off with no backup.

There is a lot positive about my job, which on a day-to-day basis I enjoy. I love working with the kids, and we do have excellent management barring The Evil One. I have an excellent working relationship with them and have been able to pioneer some exciting new developments, largely without interference. Additionally, we're moving to a new site this year, and her office is a decent distance from the main teaching block, which should help reduce the amount of time she can spend flinging crap at me.

Scott - How long did it take for things to switch around with you having his job and him being demoted? Just a matter of curiosity. I'm not sure whether our management are quite smart enough, I'm sure you know how devious alcoholics can be. It's not that management are bad, just a little too trusting and too anti-confrontation I think.

I'll try to keep things up to date here, I've obviously got to make a decision, but need to be careful not to jump from the frying pan into the fire. Oh well, if life was simple it'd never be any fun, and let's be honest, no-one comes here for a simple life!

[10027586]

PS thinking about it, maybe I should have just entitled this rant rather than advice, as I suspect I was probably more in need of getting it off my chest and checking to see if I was mentally stable than anything else!

[Scott]

As to how long it took for things to turn around--it took about 4 years. It was not abrupt, but rather gradual. Basically, the guy was sidelined completely.

This lady's big mistake is that she is out and about. Her behavior will cause the school to lose face and they won't want her to be associated with the school at least in a high profile way.

Yes, you need to remember just how devious alcoholics can be. She may have a small group of drinking buddies and may not be high profile as far as the Thai Admin is concerned.

Finally, in my experience, they will tolerate heavy drinking from male teachers, but females are held to a much different standard.

I am taking it that the top administration is Thai.

[10027586]

Yes, top admin is Thai. It's certainly possible that they are not aware, though it's certainly not something she makes any great attempt to hide.

[Scott]

One of your best bets is to make sure the Thai admin get a good look at her at some event. Our Christmas/New Years party usually brings the worst out in everyone. We also have a few other events--a weekend English Camp, a graduation trip etc. If you have any of these she should be able to make a right royal fool of herself for everyone to see!

[garro]

The difficulty with giving advice, on these sort of matters, is that we are only hearing one side of the story.

[Scott]

Garro, your right and I am sure if she went on line, she'd probably say she drinks to oblivion because of those d*mned, stupid, silly teachers she has to work with!

[10027586]

The difficulty with giving advice, on these sort of matters, is that we are only hearing one side of the story.

Of course, you're spot on, so in the spirit of fairness, I should probably argue that in fact I'm a drunken fool who stamps on kittens, teaches kindergarten kids to swear, chews the furniture, throws rocks at teachers and leaves the toilet seat up No wonder she hates me!

[Scott]

I think the main point and the one that needs to be addressed with this lady is her drinking. She's an alcoholic and there is no excuse for her behavior. There may be another side, but there isn't really an excuse.

[Ijustwannateach]

Actually, I've found that quite often in Thailand there ISN'T another side. There are some amazingly unprofessional and unsuitable types that wind up in management (Thai and foreign), and the solution would be to get rid of them before they destroy a school. Yes, yes, there are some baaaaad, baaaaad teachers out there, too- but who was it that hired them?

"S"

[garro]

My point is that in this case I am hearing one side of a story - relying on one point of view. It has been my experience that when egos are bruised and personalities clash it can lead to faults being exaggerated. It is too easy to just judge and sentence somebody in their absence.

Look at it this way. If the head teacher, in the OP, posted on Thaivisa about how one of her teachers was undermining and plotting behind her back, how many posters would recommend that she sack him or discipline him?

I am not saying that the OP is wrong about her. I'm just trying to be balanced and fair.

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, there might be other sides to the story, but sometimes there aren't, as IJWT says. If a dept. of foreign language has tremendous turnover of foreign teachers for whatever reasons, the fault lies in those who control the school.

[10027586]

My point is that in this case I am hearing one side of a story - relying on one point of view. It has been my experience that when egos are bruised and personalities clash it can lead to faults being exaggerated. It is too easy to just judge and sentence somebody in their absence.

Look at it this way. If the head teacher, in the OP, posted on Thaivisa about how one of her teachers was undermining and plotting behind her back, how many posters would recommend that she sack him or discipline him?

I am not saying that the OP is wrong about her. I'm just trying to be balanced and fair.

Don't worry, I'm not easily offended and frankly you're 100% right. The internet is of course known for being full of odd characters and fantasists so yes, I could easily be a complete loon, as alluded to in my previous attempt at a comedic post (which might not have been received that way, if so it's a misjudgment on my part).

Ijustwannateach - Funny you mention the hiring process. I (and my partner) were hired after an interview on webcam, with no demo teach, and having never met in person, and having never seen the school. In hindsight this was probably a slightly nuts thing for me to do, but it got me here, so I guess it wasn't all bad.

However, that brings me to more recent recruitment. Our secondary head informed me that he had seen a perfect candidate for our science job. He was experienced, had tonnes of qualifications, and frankly would have been a wonderful teacher. He didn't get the job. On the other hand, someone else got the job because he was "wonderful" and we simply "had to find him a job". This method of recruitment had also applied to one of our kinder teachers. Strangely both like a drink or three.

I would suggest that people are not being matched to roles, but to some other criteria I can't put my finger on. Probably her social life!

On the positive side, it has given me a year's experience, which makes me much more marketable than I would be with no experience, and I have been able to take part in some fabulous positive things at the school. I certainly do not regret coming. I just wish she'd hurry up and bog off.

PS re: plotting and scheming. I never was any good at it so unless someone here has a foolproof way of getting rid or someone knows a cheap hitman I think that's out of the question!

[Scott]

I think it's very different when a teacher is doing things to undermine or back stab the administration--this goes with the territory. A lot of people don't like their bosses, for many, many reasons. The point is that the administator has to be above this and still has to give some presentation of professionalism. I certainly have teachers who don't like me and that's OK--provided that they are a good teacher. And criticism is to be expected, it's part of my job to field their complaints and sometimes take the brunt of it, even if I am unable to do something about it.

[Ijustwannateach]

Yup- the passive resistance is the flip side of not having the power that managers do.