Concealed Aircons (size And Cost)

[Sleesy]

Hi All,

My situation:

I have read as much as possible this morning re Aircons....

Am In Bangkok for 2 weeks so hard to get another quote in time

Having house built on an estate in Phuket (Permsap) and need to install Aircons NOW:

The developers previously insisted we install aircons AFTER the house is completed but we want CONCEALED aircons and now they say we can install now but have to do it NOW ie this week cos the ceilings are about to go in. I have a quote for 340,000thb !!!!!

No time to get a 2nd quote...

So do these prices seem reasonable for CONCEALED A/Cs:

4 bedrooms average size 15sq Meteres,

Open plan living/dining/kitchen/entranceway is 88sq Meters.

For the bedrooms: York Concealed: 12500btu (YCLT12/FIDT12) = 27,500thb plus ducting & grills @ 10,000thb per room

For the living space 40000btu 55,300thb ducting is 30,000thb so will be redesigned...

Sounds like I should go for 2 smaller units in the Living space or redesign as the duct to the entrance way was 8 Meters. Think I'll just forget about the duct to the entranceway...

FYI I used to have a 100sq Meter apartment with a 36000btu unit in the living area, 18000btu in each bedroom.

I only ever used the living room AC, set at 26 degrees and opened the bedrooms doors...

Even then the wife was chilly...

Price sound OK, seems pricey to me !!!!

Was getting quoted on York but after the reading this morning seems Mitsubushi is the preferred choice !

All help much appreciated.

Sleesy

Ps I know non-concealed ACs will be loads cheaper and I might go that route but don't want to....

Edited May 13, 2008 by Sleesy

[Sleesy]

Quick update:

The price is now down to 290,000thb by reducing ducting and having 2 x 30,000BTU units in the family room

(instead of the 40,000 & 36,000 units)

I still think I only need one large say 40,000btu unit in the family/living area...

[dotcom]

To the best of my knowledge 30,000 BTU are the largest single phase air cons made & sold in Thailand.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Nothing wrong with 3 phase units but it involves a whole different wiring scheme from pole to your premises.

So bearing that in mind I would go with 2 30,000 btu units.

York or Carrier are great units. My 30,000 is Carrier.

For Japanese units I would say Saijo Denki & Daiken are the 2 top brands.

Mitsubishi are fine, 99% of split units use Mitsu compressors.

[oldgit]

Hi All,

My situation:

I have read as much as possible this morning re Aircons....

Am In Bangkok for 2 weeks so hard to get another quote in time

Having house built on an estate in Phuket (Permsap) and need to install Aircons NOW:

The developers previously insisted we install aircons AFTER the house is completed but we want CONCEALED aircons and now they say we can install now but have to do it NOW ie this week cos the ceilings are about to go in. I have a quote for 340,000thb !!!!!

No time to get a 2nd quote...

So do these prices seem reasonable for CONCEALED A/Cs:

4 bedrooms average size 15sq Meteres,

Open plan living/dining/kitchen/entranceway is 88sq Meters.

For the bedrooms: York Concealed: 12500btu (YCLT12/FIDT12) = 27,500thb plus ducting & grills @ 10,000thb per room

For the living space 40000btu 55,300thb ducting is 30,000thb so will be redesigned...

Sounds like I should go for 2 smaller units in the Living space or redesign as the duct to the entrance way was 8 Meters. Think I'll just forget about the duct to the entranceway...

FYI I used to have a 100sq Meter apartment with a 36000btu unit in the living area, 18000btu in each bedroom.

I only ever used the living room AC, set at 26 degrees and opened the bedrooms doors...

Even then the wife was chilly...

Price sound OK, seems pricey to me !!!!

Was getting quoted on York but after the reading this morning seems Mitsubushi is the preferred choice !

All help much appreciated.

Sleesy

Ps I know non-concealed ACs will be loads cheaper and I might go that route but don't want to....

Sleesy

You haven't mentioned the heights from finished floor level to false ceiling in the bedrooms and living room space.If its 3 metres in the bedrooms(4-no.),then I think the York unit sized at 12,500 btu/hr. is too small.I think a 20,000 btu/hr. unit is better.This will give 5,000 btu/hr. per bedroom.Check the total resistance on the evaporator fan(unit) and see if it is large enough to cope with the index run(from unit to furthest grille) otherwise you won't get the required cooling load in that room.The main problem with concealed units is access for maintenance.You wind up with an access door in your ceiling big enough for an engineer to service the unit which,in time,becomes dirty through finger marks etc.It will also drag in all the dirt etc. from the ceiling space if you are having relief intake grilles installed in the ceiling which means the unit filter gets dirty quicker.I can't make out your total quote for the whole installation.I see it this way;

Bedrooms - 1-no. york unit= 27,500 bht.

Ducting,grilles etc............=40,000 bht.

Living Space-1 no.York unit=55,300 bht.

Ducting,grilles etc.............=30,000 bht.....Total cost = 152,800 bht.Am I right?

[Naam]

To the best of my knowledge 30,000 BTU are the largest single phase air cons made & sold in Thailand.

i recently had a Daikin 36,000 btu ceiling unit single phase installed in my pool area. would have gone for three phase but refrained because once in a while one of the phases goes voltage wise below 100V, i.e. whole unit down.

[Naam]

i strongly recommend not to go for big units but split the total capacity into smaller units. that's initially more expensive but more energy efficient in the long run. big units do NOT provide enough latent cooling (dehumidification) and therefore provide no appropriate comfort level!

[Naam]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Nothing wrong with 3 phase units but it involves a whole different wiring scheme from pole to your premises.

anybody who uses that kind of aircon capacity needs a 3-phase connection (3x15, preferably 3x30amps). case closed

[oldgit]

Inverter outdoor units(heat pump and cooling only)with a variable speed compresser have been available for some time now where it is possible to use a 240v/single phase supply to a large capacity unit because the starting current is so low.They should be obtainable in Thailand.

[Sleesy]

Thanks for the replies Gents.

Will limit size to 30,000BTUs as suggested.

Regards,

Sleesy.

[Sleesy]

You haven't mentioned the heights from finished floor level to false ceiling in the bedrooms and living room space.If its 3 metres in the bedrooms(4-no.),then I think the York unit sized at 12,500 btu/hr. is too small.I think a 20,000 btu/hr. unit is better.This will give 5,000 btu/hr. per bedroom.Check the total resistance on the evaporator fan(unit) and see if it is large enough to cope with the index run(from unit to furthest grille) otherwise you won't get the required cooling load in that room.

Ceiling heights is approx 3 meters. Am I right in thinking you are thinking I'm getting one 12,500 for the 4 bedrooms? I planned to get one for each.

The main problem with concealed units is access for maintenance.You wind up with an access door in your ceiling big enough for an engineer to service the unit which,in time,becomes dirty through finger marks etc.It will also drag in all the dirt etc. from the ceiling space if you are having relief intake grilles installed in the ceiling which means the unit filter gets dirty quicker.

Agreed but still prettier !!!!

I can't make out your total quote for the whole installation.I see it this way;

Bedrooms - 1-no. york unit= 27,500 bht.

Ducting,grilles etc............=40,000 bht.

Living Space-1 no.York unit=55,300 bht.

Ducting,grilles etc.............=30,000 bht.....Total cost = 152,800 bht.Am I right?

Here's my spreadsheet, sorry tabs get lost !

….. COSTS

BTU ….. AC Duct Remote

Family 1 30,000 ….. THB 40,000 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

Family 2 30,000 ….. THB 40,000 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

Bedroom 1 12,500 ….. THB 27,500 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

Bedroom 2 12,500 ….. THB 27,500 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

Bedroom 3 12,500 ….. THB 27,500 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

Bedroom 4 12,500 ….. THB 27,500 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

…..

….. THB 190,000 THB 60,000 THB 15,000

…..

…..

Total ….. THB 265,000

Overhead ….. THB 34,000

…..

Grand Total ….. THB 299,000 THB

Edited May 14, 2008 by Sleesy

[Sleesy]

Anyone got any views on if the price is reasonable...

I will try and get an over the phone 2nd quote but tricky with house in Phuket and us in Bangkok...

[oldgit]

You haven't mentioned the heights from finished floor level to false ceiling in the bedrooms and living room space.If its 3 metres in the bedrooms(4-no.),then I think the York unit sized at 12,500 btu/hr. is too small.I think a 20,000 btu/hr. unit is better.This will give 5,000 btu/hr. per bedroom.Check the total resistance on the evaporator fan(unit) and see if it is large enough to cope with the index run(from unit to furthest grille) otherwise you won't get the required cooling load in that room.

Ceiling heights is approx 3 meters. Am I right in thinking you are thinking I'm getting one 12,500 for the 4 bedrooms? I planned to get one for each.

The main problem with concealed units is access for maintenance.You wind up with an access door in your ceiling big enough for an engineer to service the unit which,in time,becomes dirty through finger marks etc.It will also drag in all the dirt etc. from the ceiling space if you are having relief intake grilles installed in the ceiling which means the unit filter gets dirty quicker.

Agreed but still prettier !!!!

I can't make out your total quote for the whole installation.I see it this way;

Bedrooms - 1-no. york unit= 27,500 bht.

Ducting,grilles etc............=40,000 bht.

Living Space-1 no.York unit=55,300 bht.

Ducting,grilles etc.............=30,000 bht.....Total cost = 152,800 bht.Am I right?

Here's my spreadsheet, sorry tabs get lost !

….. COSTS

BTU ….. AC Duct Remote

Family 1 30,000 ….. THB 40,000 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

Family 2 30,000 ….. THB 40,000 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

Bedroom 1 12,500 ….. THB 27,500 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

Bedroom 2 12,500 ….. THB 27,500 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

Bedroom 3 12,500 ….. THB 27,500 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

Bedroom 4 12,500 ….. THB 27,500 THB 10,000 THB 2,500

…..

….. THB 190,000 THB 60,000 THB 15,000

…..

…..

Total ….. THB 265,000

Overhead ….. THB 34,000

…..

Grand Total ….. THB 299,000 THB

The unit serving each bedroom seem oversized but better that option than too small.Does the room controller for each unit have fan speed control?The total expenditure for the bedrooms also seems excessive when you consider that they will install flexible ducting to each grille which takes no time at all.If there are guest bedrooms,why not have one unit serving,say, two bedrooms.They will not be used regularly and you will save money by eliminating one unit.Circular diffusers in the ceiling look better than grilles.Are they running a return air duct from the intake diffuser to the unit?This will eliminate excessive cleaning of the unit filter.The cost of the units in the family area seem about right but you will need more than one diffuser per unit as the airflow will be high and could cause draughts in a 3 metre ceiling.As I mentioned before,check to see if they will be installing the inverter outdoor units.The standard unit starts up the compressor on maximum which means a high starting current so your circuit breaker may trip because off the power surge.These problems should arise during the commissioning of the installation so keep a good look out.

Good luck,mate.

[oldgit]

Almost forgot.Make sure that all ductwork is insulated and vapour sealed with aluminium foil tape to avoid condensation dropping on to the ceiling.

[Sleesy]

The unit serving each bedroom seem oversized but better that option than too small.Does the room controller for each unit have fan speed control?The total expenditure for the bedrooms also seems excessive when you consider that they will install flexible ducting to each grille which takes no time at all.If there are guest bedrooms,why not have one unit serving,say, two bedrooms.They will not be used regularly and you will save money by eliminating one unit.Circular diffusers in the ceiling look better than grilles.Are they running a return air duct from the intake diffuser to the unit?This will eliminate excessive cleaning of the unit filter.The cost of the units in the family area seem about right but you will need more than one diffuser per unit as the airflow will be high and could cause draughts in a 3 metre ceiling.As I mentioned before,check to see if they will be installing the inverter outdoor units.The standard unit starts up the compressor on maximum which means a high starting current so your circuit breaker may trip because off the power surge.These problems should arise during the commissioning of the installation so keep a good look out.

Good luck,mate.

Each room will have own remote with fan/speed control.

We have 4 bedrooms, 1 for our bedroom, 1 for our son, 1 as an office and 1 for guest bedroom so don't really want to share as office will be used by day, guest bedroom (occasionally) by night...

Will keep my eye out re tripping thanks...

Funny thing is the 1st AC quote was charging 10,000thb per room for ducting.

2nd over the phone quoted 400thb per meter, slight difference there then for a small room!

Regards

Sleesy

Edited May 16, 2008 by Sleesy