If Not Thailand, Where?

[Jingthing]

Mexico is a very interesting country and has alot to recommend itself.

However, be warned:

- the most desirable areas (such as my fave Puerto Vallarta) are no longer in the affordable range

- Mexico does not offer an easy NO PENSION visa option for early retirees, as does Thailand, ironic for Americans to be illegal aliens in Mexico, but they do enforce immigration laws, though I don't think they are as mean as Thailand about that

- a good friend of mine used to be well connected with the long term expat community in Oaxaca, which is a cheaper place, even there, she said half the people she had known there were grumbling all the time about the increased costs

I would have a good look at Argentina, which a view to buy real estate while their currency is still weak (it won't be forever). However, they also do not offer an easy visa option for early retirees without pensions. However, they are very, very lax about overstay enforcement. But bring your own hot peppers and spices, they may be the most spice phobic people in the world.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Jingthing

[jstumbo]

snip

Edited May 21, 2008 by jstumbo

[PeaceBlondie]

There are throngs of US and Canadian retirees there but not so many that it dilutes the local Mexican culture and customs.

Too bad, if there was one place that could use with a little diluting it would be there. Maybe they need a few million more gringos.

It varies a lot. Like Thailand, there are indigenous areas where even Mexican nationals are strangers (I worked in such a place; most of them did not even speak Spanish). San Cristobal, crawling with tourists, 40 km away. Other places I went, very few tourists or expatriates. The senior immigration officer was so unaccustomed to taking visa applications from USA citizens that he wrote americano on my form instead of estadounidense. Mexico is so Americanized in many ways that they need less American influence, not more. The Chinese seem to fit in well.

[ilyushin]

Palau, Palawan, Vanatu, East Timor, Mombasa, Sao Tome, New Caledonia, Sri Lanka or Mexico.

[mike_rad]

How about 1st of all First worlds - Japan.

Okinawa?

Or anywhere in Kyushu? No stray dogs, guaranteed.

Gotta avoid those rush hour trains, though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE35onlIySk

--

[grtaylor]

Malaysia - KL and Penang are ok, but more expensive to live then thailand, and you are ruled by islam

I really feel this is an exaggeration. I've been to Malaysia many times, and don't feel "ruled by Islam" at all. Christmas Day is a public holiday, I can buy bacon there, I can drink beer there, and there is nightlife, although low-key compared with Thailand. To me "ruled by Islam" implies the sort of society which exists in Saudi Arabia or Iran . . . .

Can you please explain what you mean?

G

[JSixpack]

Malaysia - KL and Penang are ok, but more expensive to live then thailand, and you are ruled by islam

I really feel this is an exaggeration. I've been to Malaysia many times, and don't feel "ruled by Islam" at all. Christmas Day is a public holiday, I can buy bacon there, I can drink beer there, and there is nightlife, although low-key compared with Thailand. To me "ruled by Islam" implies the sort of society which exists in Saudi Arabia or Iran . . . .

Can you please explain what you mean?

G

I agree completely. Malaysia is a nice place for expats, even invites retirees with its Malaysia My Second Home program. It's much more international and civilized than Thailand, forward-looking, and English (sort of) is widely spoken. I've often thought about moving there, and someday I may just do that. The problem many TV members have with Malaysia is that it lacks an overt sex scene.

Edited May 22, 2008 by JSixpack

[zorro1]

Malaysia - KL and Penang are ok, but more expensive to live then thailand, and you are ruled by islam

I really feel this is an exaggeration. I've been to Malaysia many times, and don't feel "ruled by Islam" at all. Christmas Day is a public holiday, I can buy bacon there, I can drink beer there, and there is nightlife, although low-key compared with Thailand. To me "ruled by Islam" implies the sort of society which exists in Saudi Arabia or Iran . . . .

Can you please explain what you mean?

G

I agree completely. Malaysia is a nice place for expats, even invites retirees with its Malaysia My Second Home program. It's much more international and civilized than Thailand, forward-looking, and English (sort of) is widely spoken. I've often thought about moving there, and someday I may just do that. The problem many TV members have with Malaysia is that it lacks an overt sex scene.

Go to the Hard rock cafe or any of the bars in the hotel that adjoins it . They wernt overt just like a lot of the no hassle bars here but very available

[ya5702]

Malaysia - KL and Penang are ok, but more expensive to live then thailand, and you are ruled by islam

I really feel this is an exaggeration. I've been to Malaysia many times, and don't feel "ruled by Islam" at all. Christmas Day is a public holiday, I can buy bacon there, I can drink beer there, and there is nightlife, although low-key compared with Thailand. To me "ruled by Islam" implies the sort of society which exists in Saudi Arabia or Iran . . . .

Can you please explain what you mean?

G

Ruled by Islam: one example

Malaysia has "khalwat" (close-proximity) Islamic laws which allow vigilante squads (religious group) to enter any premise where they suspect two unmarried people are in "close proximity". The khalwat law applies to anybody of any religion in the country. Be warned.

[Peterpan]

Vina Del Mar, Chile, the Con Con area.

Now that is a country you can retire in and it has everything you want, and not far from Argentina another fantastic country.

[happyending]

lots of people recommending south america

especially argentina

must be something in it

sri lanka?

or south africa - dirt cheap at the moment

lots of saudi / mid east money pouring into malaysia these days

cant help thinking it will go sharia one day

[didnt they jail the opp. leader on suspicion of being gay]

then on down to indonesia

and sth thailand?

nth thailand

pressure from communist china?

will be an interesting next 5 years

plan b sounds sensible

[Jingthing]

If interested in South Africa, be advised for retirement visa, you must shown over 30K USD pension or guaranteed INCOME flow (such as an annuity, not for example rents) or no deal. You can't just show assets or open a bank account. BTW, Argentina does have a very reasonable pension option for the retirement visa (much less than South Africa). If you are thinking of Uruguay, qualification only for the wealthy, similar to Australia.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Malaysia - KL and Penang are ok, but more expensive to live then thailand, and you are ruled by islam

I really feel this is an exaggeration. I've been to Malaysia many times, and don't feel "ruled by Islam" at all. Christmas Day is a public holiday, I can buy bacon there, I can drink beer there, and there is nightlife, although low-key compared with Thailand. To me "ruled by Islam" implies the sort of society which exists in Saudi Arabia or Iran . . . .

Can you please explain what you mean?

G

I agree completely. Malaysia is a nice place for expats, even invites retirees with its Malaysia My Second Home program. It's much more international and civilized than Thailand, forward-looking, and English (sort of) is widely spoken. I've often thought about moving there, and someday I may just do that. The problem many TV members have with Malaysia is that it lacks an overt sex scene.

Go to the Hard rock cafe or any of the bars in the hotel that adjoins it . They wernt overt just like a lot of the no hassle bars here but very available

Try the "health club/massage parlors" or barber shops with a barber pole out front. There is plenty of action in Malaysia for a little more than Thailand.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[banyahorn]

If interested in South Africa, be advised for retirement visa, you must shown over 30K USD pension or guaranteed INCOME flow (such as an annuity, not for example rents) or no deal. You can't just show assets or open a bank account. BTW, Argentina does have a very reasonable pension option for the retirement visa (much less than South Africa). If you are thinking of Uruguay, qualification only for the wealthy, similar to Australia.

Jingthing

can you recommend anything about SA

im thinking of going there thru the wet season here

the rand is so low

must be the right time to go on safari

[lannarebirth]

If interested in South Africa, be advised for retirement visa, you must shown over 30K USD pension or guaranteed INCOME flow (such as an annuity, not for example rents) or no deal. You can't just show assets or open a bank account. BTW, Argentina does have a very reasonable pension option for the retirement visa (much less than South Africa). If you are thinking of Uruguay, qualification only for the wealthy, similar to Australia.

Jingthing

can you recommend anything about SA

im thinking of going there thru the wet season here

the rand is so low

must be the right time to go on safari

SA Travel Warnings:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080523/wl_nm/...ica_violence_dc

[lilBob]

i think the philippines might be comparable to thailand, there have been some threads on this, do a search

I recently had a conversation with a guy who moved from the PI to thailand cos Thailand has better medical facilities. I think that this should be a consideration for those of us who are getting older or those of us who ride motor bikes

lilBob

[thai thai]

I have to agree with the post about Chile. Very nice country. Lot's of great little villages between Santiago and Puerto Mont. Equivilant stretch from Phuket to Tokyo, and only 12 million people. Temperate beautiful California weather.

[aries27]

whew, this is what you get for being too long away from TV....lengthy back reading...

strange post... if i were to ask, i would probably go, "If not HOME, where is the best place to retire"?

i dont really understand how some posters here can so easily rattle off names of countries in an "impersonal" kind of way. finding a place to retire, live your old age, is not that easy to do, at least it wont be for my case.

doesnt personal attachment to a place matter? having your families and friends around? i mean sure, if you fell in love that hard and dont mind living elsewhere with your partner and raising a family, that should be enough to reason to be somewhere and love the new place.. REALLY... "home is where your heart is"..

but i still find it strange that some people here like make it sound so easy to give up home... is it that cold? is it that expensive? dont i know what i am talking about at all?

maybe with the ease of travel and the convenience of cheap and easy communication via internet, mobiles, etc. it is easy to live just anywhere... so maybe some people are talking from this experience.

my country is poor, suffers from bad publicity and impression (foreigners' loss, not really ours) but the more i read about how people talk about the countries they live (thailand in this forum for instance) and the countries they left, the more i love my country, with its imperfections and flaws. the more i appreciate how much shallow-ly happy my people are (easy to elicit smiles and laughter and know how to have FUN). (as well as appreciate the PH values) cause in the end, that is really what matter. being happy with your life. right?

so where is the best place to retire? where you feel most at home, where you feel most happy, really happy, beyond conveniences, etc. where you can relax, watch sunrise and sunsets, feel safe and at peace. you may not have the best food accessible to you, the best infrastructure, the best car to drive, but you must have the basics of course. know yourself, know what you want, what you are willing to give up, what you cant do without. then decide.

if we are talking about retirement, then you must be up there already, been there, done that, wisdom overflowing...you would understand what i am talking about and i am not ready to retire yet. yup, that should be another factor. where your next life after retirement can best take place because i think there is LIFE after retirement. there should be...

good luck...

[vantexan]

About 12 years ago, in my mid 30's, I realized that the major corporation I work for wasn't going to provide the future for me I wanted. About the same time I ran across a book about living in Mexico. Realizing that my company's pension plan would go alot further outside the U.S. I started exploring the possibilities. I've come to the conclusion that while there are many places that I could afford to live in with a small pension, very few have the amenities I want. I like bookstores, multi-plex theatres, good food at cheap prices. I also want a wife I can communicate with. I've decided the Philippines is the best place to find an English speaking wife. But I'll most likely bring her to Chiang Mai or Penang, Malaysia. The Philippines is a beautiful country, but will soon have over 100 million people in an area less than half the size of Thailand. Things are breaking down there due to population pressure. The bigger cities have decent amenities, but traffic, crime, pollution, and poverty are ridiculous. Another place I'd consider is Guatemala. There are some very nice small cities with an excellent climate and spectacular scenery. However crime is a real problem. If you want a country that's safe with beautiful scenery, great climate, and near first world infrastructure in Latin America, Chile is it. Argentina and Uruguay are good options. If women are your first priority, Brazil, Costa Rica, and the Dominican Republic are probably your best bets. I'm finding that if you want good reading material in a non-English speaking country you have to look for large British expat colonies. As an avid reader a big plus for living in Thailand is it's a quick trip to Singapore for huge bookstores. For books in English in Latin America it's a long trip to the States. This may not matter to most but I feel that to leave your home country and successfully establish a life elsewhere you've got to have much of what you enjoy available to you. I read of so many trying to live in other countries and ultimately going home. Just from reading I think Thailand has the best combination of things that will keep me interested, challenged, and comfortable. Going back to the States to do drudge work just to exist will only happen if that is better than living elsewhere. Not likely!

[PeaceBlondie]

aries27 wonders how some of us can rather nonchalantly rattle off a long list of countries around the world, as if they are all live options. Well, many of us never married Thais, so that nearly indissolvable bond to Thailand does not keep us centered here. Most of us in our earlier years were pretty well tied to a certain country because we and our spouses were from there, and our kids didn't want to be shipped across the world. Bt families break up, children grow up, and home sweet home begins to smell like crap, so we get itchy feet.

And let us be realistic: Thailand is not in love with expatriates. It is easier to be a foreigner, elsewhere. Maya Indians were friendly to me, and I could go back and live in a village on $700 per month. If I could learn their language.....

[aries27]

PB, thats what i thought...we are coming from different perspectives, experiences. same with vantexan...makes economic sense to live in cheaper countries.

there are a lot of less crowded areas in the PH. if you know where to look. also, where the air is cleaner, the people friendlier, etc. with the way malls and chains of supermarkets, fastfoods are branching out, supplies of local and imported goods are no longer much of a problem. also mobility, communication are available -- landlines, cellphones, internet. just last week, i was in paradise (think powdery white sand beaches all to your group of 3 people... seascapes like phuket and halong bay)... but way too cheap and cleaner and people looking at you in a funny perplexed sort of way as you gasp at the beauty of the islands!) and i am not talking of palawan. not as far away and the cellphone works even in these islands or doing the island hopping! if i had a laptop, so can the internet.

anyway, i am not selling my country, tourism or retirement destination. the less tourists and westerners coming over, the better. haha...would rather have filipinos first enjoying these places...hehe... and keep the values of the locals intact... whether you accept it or not, expats corrupt!

[ilyushin]

The Philippines had so much to offer and it is all a mess now. The only location I like is Palawan outside that PI offers little for me. I spend two weeks at a time in Manila, Tagai Thai or Clark and almost go mental. I am sure there are nice places to visit, but the quality of life can't be that good.

Been to the Philippines over 50 times with 2 -4 week stays not as a tourist, but a security specialist for airlines and aviation companies and it is one strange place. I don't see any commonalities with Thailand worth mentioning. Most of the retired guys have nothing else to lose so the locals don't even bother them. They live pension check to pension check and have setup rackets to net a bit here and there for their drinking and babe supplies.

No quality, I have seen/meet some like this in Thailand, but they are soon gone.

Look long and hard at any country you select and make sure you still have an exit plan should things go south.

When I retire, I will spend 3-6 months in Thailand and rotate between my other 3 homes abroad.

Happy retirement!

[beammeup]

I backpacked through Mexico Guatamala and Belize in my younger days, I did the old gringo trail. I loved Guatemala I thought at the time it would be a lovely place to settle down and I met several people who were ex-pats there. Chili sounds excellant as well.

[klikster]

Some say that Panama is becoming the next Costa Rica .. lots of Snowbirds. I have no personal experience about "living there", but their visa requires seem modest compared to LOS. With a retirement visa comes promises of many discounts, I wonder if they are all enforced.

"Considered to be the best retirement program in the world, the Panama Pensionado program offers retirees excellent incentives including

Import tax exemption for household goods

Tax exemption to import a new car every two years

25% discounts on utility bills

25% discount on airline tickets and 30% on other transportation

15% discount on loans made in your name

1% reduction on home mortgages for homes used for personal residence

20% discount on doctor's bills 15% on hospital services if no insurance applies

15% off dental and eye exams

10% discount on medicines

20% discount on bills for professional and technical services

50% discount on entrance to movie theaters, cultural and sporting events

50% discount at hotels during Monday to Thursday, 30% on weekends"

And guess you can own land ..

[taxin]

The answer is simple... Malaysia !

With the MM2H program (Malaysia my 2nd home) it has to be worth it for anyone who might be is sick of Thailand, but still like the idea of having Thailand on there doorstep, and dont want to go to the extreme of moving to planet Mars !

10 year multiple entry visa, including your family (renewable)...

You can buy and "own" property...

Own a business outright...

Import your car tax free...

Get a housing loan for upto 80%...

They will even let you import a maid !

All you gotta do is stick 1.5 million baht into a Malaysian bank ! (3 million if your under 50)....

Thats where I would be looking !

[ilyushin]

The answer is simple... Malaysia !

With the MM2H program (Malaysia my 2nd home) it has to be worth it for anyone who might be is sick of Thailand, but still like the idea of having Thailand on there doorstep, and dont want to go to the extreme of moving to planet Mars !

10 year multiple entry visa, including your family (renewable)...

You can buy and "own" property...

Own a business outright...

Import your car tax free...

Get a housing loan for upto 80%...

They will even let you import a maid !

All you gotta do is stick 1.5 million baht into a Malaysian bank ! (3 million if your under 50)....

Thats where I would be looking !

Taxin - great info.

I remember a web page promoting the MM2H. Can't find it now, but sure there are others.

Might take a trip down and see what opportunities and property market looks like these days.

Ilyushin

[cowbs]

To banyahorn who asked about South Africa.

Lovely country to visit. Lovely scenery, especially near Cape Town, along the garden route, and country areas. Good food and wine. Get to the country areas. Also fairly favourable exchange rate mostly, but as with everywhere, look for better deals and watch out for tourist prices.

But the country does have its crime and security problems, so be careful. In terms of being a country to retire to, I would say not.