การยื่นหมู ยื่นแมว

[DavidHouston]

This headline is from this week's Matichon Weekly Magazine:

หน้า 47

คมวาทะ

นพดล ปัทมะ

ประเทศ ไทย ไม่เคยมี การยื่นหมู ยื่นแมว เพื่อ แลกเปลี่ยน ในกรณีใดๆ กับ เขาพระวิหาร

What does the phrase "การยื่นหมู ยื่นแมว" mean? BTW, the word spacing was in the original. If you wish to look at the actual version, it is on page 47 of the May 23rd issue.

The Domnern-Sathienpong dictionary says, "to swap, to give a quid pro quo on the spot." There must be something behind this phrase which is of interest.

Thank you for your help.

[aanon]

From the various definitions i've seen, the phrase refers to exchanging items (or possibly favours etc) on the spot/at the same time. You can picture two people, one holding out a pig, the other holding out a cat, making a quick swap. Or perhaps the thief and the buyer of his goods doing a simultaneous exchange.

In this case, although i don't know the back story, it sounds like Nopadol is denying that any deals have been struck in private regarding the issue of Khao Pra Wihan. Does that fit with the article?

all the best.

[DavidHouston]

From the various definitions i've seen, the phrase refers to exchanging items (or possibly favours etc) on the spot/at the same time. You can picture two people, one holding out a pig, the other holding out a cat, making a quick swap. Or perhaps the thief and the buyer of his goods doing a simultaneous exchange.

In this case, although i don't know the back story, it sounds like Nopadol is denying that any deals have been struck in private regarding the issue of Khao Pra Wihan. Does that fit with the article?

all the best.

Thanks for the quick response. This was a quote in a separate box, a technique often employed by Matichon Weekly. I'll try to find the fact set in another article if I can. I ask that others who may know the background please let us know a bit more about this the facts of the alleged swap.

Thanks to all.

[yoot]

You can read the story from this page

[aanon]

You can read the story from this page

from reading yoot's article, perhaps a better interpretation is that nopadol is saying that thailand has not proposed any exchange in relation to the site.

all the best.

[mangkorn]

Purely coincidental, but the use of หมู and แมว in the phrase conjured up the old English idiom of "pig in a poke." In medieval Europe, unscrupulous market sellers would sell a pig in sack (poke) that sometimes was not a pig - but in fact was a cat. If the buyer didn't open it first, he might get swindled. ("Letting the cat out of the bag," to mean, reveal a secret, seems to have come from that also.) Anyway, when it comes to political operators, it is always good to know what they're actually selling...

[DavidHouston]

You can read the story from this page

from reading yoot's article, perhaps a better interpretation is that nopadol is saying that thailand has not proposed any exchange in relation to the site.

all the best.

Thank you, Khun Yoot and Khun Aanon. Here are the relevant sentences from Khun Yoot's reference to the Thai Rath article and my attempt at a translation:

______________________

ผู้สื่อข่าวถามว่า ทางกระทรวงการต่างประเทศของกัมพูชาออกมายืนยันว่า ไทยเสนอต่อรองเรื่องผลประโยชน์ ก๊าซธรรมชาติแลกกับเขาพระวิหาร

Reporters asked whether the Cambodian Foreign Ministry insisted that the Thais suggested a deal be made concerning the exchange of certain natural gas benefits for Khao Phra Wiharn.

นายอภิสิทธิ์ กล่าวว่า ถ้าเป็นเช่นนั้นนายกรัฐมนตรี คงต้องไปดูแล้วว่า มีใครกล้าที่จะแลกเปลี่ยนผลประโยชน์ในลักษณะนั้น

Mr. Aphisit stated that, if this were true, the Prime Minister should investigate whether someone actually had the audacity to exchange benefits of this sort.

ขณะที่นายนพดล ปัทมะ รัฐมนตรีว่าการกระทรวงการต่างประเทศ กล่าวว่า ยืนยันประเทศไทยไม่เคยจะยื่นหมูยื่นแมว

At the same time, Mr. Nophadon Patama, Minister of Foreign Affairs, said, "I can unequivocally state that Thailand has never (entertained) entering into such an exchange."

___________________

Interestingly, the parallel to the metaphorical Thai usage of pigs and cats to describe exchanges might be the English "horse trading". What do you think?

Edited May 24, 2008 by DavidHouston

[aanon]

The first sentence you quoted seems strange (in both Thai and English) because what was asked was a statement rather than a question. I suppose we could try to make it a little less illogical:

When questioned over the claim from Cambodia's Foreign Ministry that Thailand had proposed [conceding] the Khao Pra Wiharn site in exchange for certain natural gas benefits, Aphisit stated that...

By the way, this sentence contains a concept that I always find challenging to translate: ผลประโยชน์ . Financial interests/benefits/self-interest etc etc sometimes just don't seem to cut it. In this case, for example, an English-language newspaper would probably be more specific and say the alleged proposed exchange was for "natural gas drilling rights" or "natural gas concessions".

Recently we had, in a question from Tax Exile, the sentence (or fragment):

[ตำรวจ]ตั้งปมขัดแย้งส่วนตัว ผลประโยชน์ และการเมือง

Police believe [the murder] may have been the result of a personal, ____ or political conflict.

Putting aside my very loose translation, what adjective can we put in here for ผลประโยชน์? Monetary? Financial? Somehow the word needs to cover the idea that the victim may have infringed upon somebody else's ability to receive personal benefit from a business activity or the (possibly improper) use of political power. Probably the benefit is a monetary one, but perhaps it could relate to other privileges or perks. Any ideas for a good translation? Or is this simply a concept that has no equivalent at this level of vagueness in English?

Anyway, I feel better now I have gotten that off my chest .

all the best.

You can read the story from this page

from reading yoot's article, perhaps a better interpretation is that nopadol is saying that thailand has not proposed any exchange in relation to the site.

all the best.

Thank you, Khun Yoot and Khun Aanon. Here are the relevant sentences from Khun Yoot's reference to the Thai Rath article and my attempt at a translation:

______________________

ผู้สื่อข่าวถามว่า ทางกระทรวงการต่างประเทศของกัมพูชาออกมายืนยันว่า ไทยเสนอต่อรองเรื่องผลประโยชน์ ก๊าซธรรมชาติแลกกับเขาพระวิหาร

Reporters asked whether the Cambodian Foreign Ministry insisted that the Thais suggested a deal be made concerning the exchange of certain natural gas benefits for Khao Phra Wiharn.

นายอภิสิทธิ์ กล่าวว่า ถ้าเป็นเช่นนั้นนายกรัฐมนตรี คงต้องไปดูแล้วว่า มีใครกล้าที่จะแลกเปลี่ยนผลประโยชน์ในลักษณะนั้น

Mr. Aphisit stated that, if this were true, the Prime Minister should investigate whether someone actually had the audacity to exchange benefits of this sort.

ขณะที่นายนพดล ปัทมะ รัฐมนตรีว่าการกระทรวงการต่างประเทศ กล่าวว่า ยืนยันประเทศไทยไม่เคยจะยื่นหมูยื่นแมว

At the same time, Mr. Nophadon Patama, Minister of Foreign Affairs, said, "I can unequivocally state that Thailand has never (entertained) entering into such an exchange."

___________________

Interestingly, the parallel to the metaphorical Thai usage of pigs and cats to describe exchanges might be the English "horse trading". What do you think?