One Transfer And One Withdrawl :)

[BennyBlanco]

Hi Guys,

Been reading as much as I can - but just need to confirm a few things.

1) I need to transfer £500 from the UK to Thailand (whilst I'm still in the UK) - I understand the best way to do this is SWIFT, specifying the "intermediary" bank so as to get the onshore rates. I will be going from Natwest to Siam Commercial Bank. The sticky has the details for the America intermediary, but not the UK one - does anyone have these?

2) I also need to get another £2500 out there - am I right in thinking I can just walk into a Siam bank with my Nationwide Debit card and just request this amount? Or would I be better ordering £2500 in travellers cheques and getting these exchanged directly in the bank?

ta!

Ben

Edited May 25, 2008 by BennyBlanco

[Morden]

I cant'help you with 1). Sorry.

Take your N/W debit card and passport to the bank. They will ask for your Thai address - on the first trip you might want to take a Thai with you from the baan to vouch forn you (a useful purpose for a wife ). You might consider withdrawing a smaller amount, over the ATM limit of course, the first time so that they get to know you. Then go back a few days later for the remainder.

There's no limit other than your balance.

[BennyBlanco]

I cant'help you with 1). Sorry.

Take your N/W debit card and passport to the bank. They will ask for your Thai address - on the first trip you might want to take a Thai with you from the baan to vouch forn you (a useful purpose for a wife ). You might consider withdrawing a smaller amount, over the ATM limit of course, the first time so that they get to know you. Then go back a few days later for the remainder.

There's no limit other than your balance.

Hi Morden,

Thanks for your reply - but I won't actually have a Thai address I'm flying in on a Monday, Going in for surgery on Wednesday and flying out on Friday!

I'll need to make the withdrawl in cash (although I can deposit it directly into my doctors account) - so it seems this might not be the right solution?

(I could of course just SWIFT it all over to him in one go - however I'd like to actually meet with him first before giving over so much money!)

....

Ben

[Maestro]

Forget the bank transfer, forget about specifying the intermediary bank. Nobody ever knows what intermediaries, if any, there are. On your payment order to your UK bank, make sure you select the correct currency (GBP) to be remitted or tick the appropriate box, whichever way the form is designed. This is what must be done to get the onshore rate.

--

Maestro

[BennyBlanco]

Hi Maestro,

Ok - I've just realised it would be the same price to go from my nationwide, so I can

1) Make a transfer of £500 via Swift from my nationwide account (not natwest) - specifying sterling and it will use the onshore rate.

But this doesn't help with the £2500 I will need once I get there - any suggestions on how I can get around this?

Ben

[Maestro]

If you transfer both amounts from the same UK account to the same Thai account you can save some fees if you make it just one remittance, ie total GBP 3,000. As purpose for the remittance write something like “personal expenses”

The procedure for the payment order to your UK bank is the same regardless of the bank you are using.

--

Maestro

[EmptyMind]

Hi Guys,

Been reading as much as I can - but just need to confirm a few things.

1) I need to transfer £500 from the UK to Thailand (whilst I'm still in the UK) - I understand the best way to do this is SWIFT, specifying the "intermediary" bank so as to get the onshore rates. I will be going from Natwest to Siam Commercial Bank. The sticky has the details for the America intermediary, but not the UK one - does anyone have these?

2) I also need to get another £2500 out there - am I right in thinking I can just walk into a Siam bank with my Nationwide Debit card and just request this amount? Or would I be better ordering £2500 in travellers cheques and getting these exchanged directly in the bank?

ta!

Ben

1. Not all banks use an "intermediary" bank so you would have to check with the RECEIVING BANK what their correct wire transfer details are, ie SWIFT CODE etc, and then give those to your SENDING BANK in the UK.

2. I have never seen this done with a debit card, I suspect that you would have to use the ATM and withdraw 20,000 BHT at a time. As far as I know the withdrawal that you are talking about can only be done with a Credit Card that allows cash advances.

Best idea is to either use travelers' cheques or simply transfer the whole amount in one wire transfer.

I should also correct Maestro. If the receiving bank specifies that you must use an intermediary bank (and they will tell you what that is) You MUST include that bank in the "intermediary bank" section of the outgoing SWIFT form or your money could be delayed by some weeks.

Edited May 25, 2008 by EmptyMind

[BennyBlanco]

Thanks guys - the details the doctor has given me don't include an intermediary bank (its to Commercial Siam) - so I guess that means he doesn't need it then.

I'll do the £500 on Wednesday, but check it gets there before I do anything else (I'd hate to send £3000 and for it to get stuck somewhere) - surgery is in 2 1/2 weeks you see - so I don't have a lot of time to correct errors ...

[EmptyMind]

Thanks guys - the details the doctor has given me don't include an intermediary bank (its to Commercial Siam) - so I guess that means he doesn't need it then.

I'll do the £500 on Wednesday, but check it gets there before I do anything else (I'd hate to send £3000 and for it to get stuck somewhere) - surgery is in 2 1/2 weeks you see - so I don't have a lot of time to correct errors ...

If you send on Wednesday it would probably arrive on the following Monday. In my experience if you send from the UK on a Tuesday it arrives on the same Friday just to give you some idea of time.

[BennyBlanco]

Yikes - that doesn't actually give me much time then - everything (all £3000) needs to be in Thailand by the 11th of June.

Perhaps I should call Siam tomorrow and ask about this over the counter jobbie - as that would be the easiest way - just need to find out if not having a Thai address would be a problem.

If that fails, it looks like I'll have to cross fingers that payments will all send in time!

The nationwide SWIFT form has one box where you select currency to send - it doesn't ask about at which end it will be converted, but I assume it's the same thing?

[EmptyMind]

Yikes - that doesn't actually give me much time then - everything (all £3000) needs to be in Thailand by the 11th of June.

Perhaps I should call Siam tomorrow and ask about this over the counter jobbie - as that would be the easiest way - just need to find out if not having a Thai address would be a problem.

If that fails, it looks like I'll have to cross fingers that payments will all send in time!

The nationwide SWIFT form has one box where you select currency to send - it doesn't ask about at which end it will be converted, but I assume it's the same thing?

Well the thing is, If your paying a Bill in Baht then it would be best to send it in Baht because if you send in a different Currency then by the time it arrives in HIS bank, It may be higher or lower than the Baht amount that you were intending to send which is OK if your sending money to yourself but probably not the best thing if its a 3rd party.

About the date, Send the 1st amount and bring the rest in TC that would save you any uncertainty and messing about with banks if your pushing it for time.

[egg6447]

mmmmmmmmmm, i realise my story is not quite what you want but you may be able to rearrange the facts to fit. if you have a thai account you shouldn,t have a problem. if no thai account i cant help. iwhent into siam comm. years ago whilst liveing in a guest house, may have been at a tgf,s residence, actualy, well it was a long time ago, used that address no problem. withdrew 500k bt useing n/w debit card. just like that. remember now, its was a guest house. hazy but hope it helps.

[EmptyMind]

As far as this same day over the counter thing, Remember that this is Thailand and it's never as easy as it sounds when you read about it. All you need when your in a hurry is that famous sentence "I'm sorry Sir, Machine Bloken, Maybe Try Tomollow".

I wouldn't risk it lol.

[BennyBlanco]

Argh this is all becoming far more complicated than it should be in this day and age! I'm tempted just to make one transfer of £3000 and say "to hel_l with the consequences!"

Issue with travellers cheques is the 1.5% charge in getting them - plus then having to pay (50p?) per cheque to change them - 25 cheques ...

Let this be a lesson to people - your life is never going to be simple if you live in one country (Taiwan), bank in another (UK), get paid from another (US) and then go for surgery in another (Thailand)

Any other comments anyone might have, gratefully received

[raybingham]

Hi Guys,

Been reading as much as I can - but just need to confirm a few things.

1) I need to transfer £500 from the UK to Thailand (whilst I'm still in the UK) - I understand the best way to do this is SWIFT, specifying the "intermediary" bank so as to get the onshore rates. I will be going from Natwest to Siam Commercial Bank. The sticky has the details for the America intermediary, but not the UK one - does anyone have these?

2) I also need to get another £2500 out there - am I right in thinking I can just walk into a Siam bank with my Nationwide Debit card and just request this amount? Or would I be better ordering £2500 in travellers cheques and getting these exchanged directly in the bank?

At the risk of sounding harsh - why have you left it so late to sort out your finances for this surgery ? A few facts:-

1. You can withdraw 18,900 per day on your Nationwide card (Flex Account ?) based on today's rate of circa 63.

2. It will cost circa £21.509 per SWIFT transfer (based on HSBC rates).

3. You will need to remit in Baht if you have an exact amount to pay.

4. You will get screwed on the rate - probably around 60/61.

5. Last SWIFT transfer I made was at 3.00 pm on a Wednesday in UK and I could see it on Siam Commercial Bank's internet banking the next day ! - not always that quick.

5. I am assuming that you do not have a Thai bank account or a Thai wife/GF (with an account) that you would be happy to trust to make the payment in Thailand.

6. Nowhere have you suggested that price is a factor in this transaction.

7. I have sent emails to SCB on 3 occasions and not once have they managed a reply - good luck if you want to contact them for advice. I think the card over the counter is a red herring - I accept I may be wrong but I would not recommend relying on it.

8. You appear to arriving on Monday 9th, paying by Weds 11th (surgery day) and flying out on Friday 13th (bloody brave of you, after surgery - clearly not superstitious

9. I don't know if you are going straight to hospital, staying in a hotel, with wife/friends etc

OPTIONS:-

a. Send the £500 via SWIFT on Tuesday 27th, it should hit the good doctors account by Thursday, he should know by Friday at the latest (try and make sure you do an 'interactive' transaction whilst sat with a bank clerk rather than fill out a paper form - that could go anywhere.

b. Either you trust this transaction or don't. If you do, then instruct the next transfer during the week commencing 2nd June.

c. If you are not sure, or want more control, take travellers cheques, But - they will cost you a fee, you will have to go to a bank after arrival.

d. Take Sterling cash you will get a better rate but not as 'secure' as T/Cs

e. This one you will really like but you will need to PM me. I am going out on 30th May. Pay in £3,000 to my Nationwide account and I will transfer (via my SCB account) £500 to the doctor on 31st May and the remaining £2,500 when you instruct me to do so. Probably free of charge as it is SCB to SCB.

[EmptyMind]

Argh this is all becoming far more complicated than it should be in this day and age! I'm tempted just to make one transfer of £3000 and say "to hel_l with the consequences!"

Issue with travellers cheques is the 1.5% charge in getting them - plus then having to pay (50p?) per cheque to change them - 25 cheques ...

Let this be a lesson to people - your life is never going to be simple if you live in one country (Taiwan), bank in another (UK), get paid from another (US) and then go for surgery in another (Thailand)

Any other comments anyone might have, gratefully received

Well the best way to avoid this again is to open an account in Thailand when your here and if you ever need to do the same again then your sorted.

The Kasikorn seems the best way to go but you might have to ask in a few places before they say yes.

Or Simply wire the deposit and withdraw the rest from the ATM in Thailand, Its not really a huge amount and 2.5K GBP is only 8 or 9 withdrawals on the ATM at 20,000 BHT a time.

[raybingham]

Argh this is all becoming far more complicated than it should be in this day and age! I'm tempted just to make one transfer of £3000 and say "to hel_l with the consequences!"

Issue with travellers cheques is the 1.5% charge in getting them - plus then having to pay (50p?) per cheque to change them - 25 cheques ...

Let this be a lesson to people - your life is never going to be simple if you live in one country (Taiwan), bank in another (UK), get paid from another (US) and then go for surgery in another (Thailand)

Any other comments anyone might have, gratefully received

Didn't realise you lived in Taiwan, blimey - I am not sure that instructing Nationwide from Taiwan is going to be a stroll in the park either

[BennyBlanco]

Hi Ray - I like option E - but of course, with no disrespect intended, I'll have to decline

Oh and seeing as this thread is making me look like I don't plan anything - here's the story....

I live in Taiwan, have done for the last year.

Booked a surgery a while back to be undertaken on September the 24th.

Got an email from the Dr 2 days ago to say he had a cancellation on the 12th of June and did I want it?

I checked the flight was available, it was, so I booked it.

I'd planned to withdraw all my money from here (Taiwan) and then convert it to baht - HOWEVER, the exchange rate is awful! 0.84 baht to the TWD!!

EDIT: Actually - I think I might be getting confused ...

If you check the rates here - http://www.scb.co.th/html/exchange/bk-txtexchange.htm

The buy rate for TWD is 0.84 - does that mean I multiply the TWD amount of 0.84 to get the amount of BAHT, or divide?

(ie if I sent 30,000 TWD - will I get 25200 BAHT or 35714 BAHT?)

Edited May 25, 2008 by BennyBlanco

[raybingham]

Hi Ray - I like option E - but of course, with no disrespect intended, I'll have to decline

Oh and seeing as this thread is making me look like I don't plan anything - here's the story....

I live in Taiwan, have done for the last year.

Booked a surgery a while back to be undertaken on September the 24th.

Got an email from the Dr 2 days ago to say he had a cancellation on the 12th of June and did I want it?

I checked the flight was available, it was, so I booked it.

I'd planned to withdraw all my money from here (Taiwan) and then convert it to baht - HOWEVER, the exchange rate is awful! 0.84 baht to the TWD!!

EDIT: Actually - I think I might be getting confused ...

If you check the rates here - http://www.scb.co.th/html/exchange/bk-txtexchange.htm

The buy rate for TWD is 0.84 - does that mean I multiply the TWD amount of 0.84 to get the amount of BAHT, or divide?

(ie if I sent 30,000 TWD - will I get 25200 BAHT or 35714 BAHT?)

BB,

I think you will get 25,200 Baht for 30,000 TWD.

I read the link as SCB are 'buying' TWD from you so you take the last column (they also have T/C rates quoted for buying).

£3,000 for the surgery @ 62.305 = 186,915 Baht @ 0.84 = 157,008.6 TWD

If that looks expensive I am happy to keep option (e) open. Trust me - I used to be a bank manager

Good luck with the surgery - hope it goes well.

[thaihome]

Don't you have a credit card you can just put the whole thing on? Not like it is a huge amount of money. Seems like you are making this really complicated.

TH

Edited May 26, 2008 by thaihome

[BennyBlanco]

That would of course be the easiest method - unfortunately, they don't accept cc.

[BennyBlanco]

Ok to update my own post - decided to send the full £3000 by bank transfer in the end.

Had to print of an online SWIFT form, selected the currency as Sterling and receiving bank to take an extra charges (Nationwide themselves charge a flat £20 to send) and posted it to Nationwide where it arrived last Thursday and was actioned Friday.

Arrived on Wednesday to the tune of 191,340 baht - then minus a 700 baht charge so totalled 190,640

Hurrah!

[Maestro]

If the receiving bank specifies that you must use an intermediary bank (and they will tell you what that is) You MUST include that bank in the "intermediary bank" section of the outgoing SWIFT form or your money could be delayed by some weeks.

Now that Benny has got his money safely to Thailand I would like to address the question of having to specify an intermediary bank on a bank’s payment order form.

Has anybody ever been in the situation where the receiving bank in Thailand specified that you must use an intermediary bank? If so, for a transfer from what bank in what country to what bank in Thailand? Can you upload an example of this type of request from a Thai bank?

I have seen a case where a US bank’s online payment order form had a field to indicate an intermediary bank and when this was discussed recently in this forum the conclusion was that the same information as for the beneficiary’s bank should be written for the intermediary bank. I have made wire transfers from such US bank myself and can confirm that this procedure worked. In other words, while the remittance may have passed through an intermediary bank neither I nor the beneficiary were aware of what this intermediary bank was.

I have never heard that UK banks have a field for an intermediary bank on their payment order forms, nor have I ever heard that a recipient bank has requested that such information be indicated by the remitter on the payment order form.

A few years ago I used to receive remittances in EUR from a Thai company to my EUR account at a Swiss bank. The credit to my account was always EUR 25 less than the amount owed me and when I questioned the Thai company about it they sent me a copy or the payment order to their bank, which was for the full amount. Following up with my bank I eventually found out that because my bank was a correspondent bank for the Thai company’s bank only for CHF but not for EUR, EUR remittances passed through Deutsche Bank in Germany and they deducted EUR 25 for their services. However, the Thai company did not have to indicate the intermediary bank in the payment order, nor did my bank give me any instructions regarding an intermediary bank to be passed on to the remitter. These intermediary banks are automatically chosen by the banks involved – more precisely by their computers –based on bilateral or multilateral agreements they have with banks in other countries.

None of the Swiss, German, UK and US banks I currently use have a field for an intermediary bank on its international wire form. Below is a blank of a US bank’s international wire form:

--

Maestro

[Chaimai]

I cannot think of any time an Intermediary Bank would be necessary - unless you were sending to the Thai Farmers Cooperative Bank in deepest Buriram.

A SWIFT transfer from a major UK or USA bank (anywhere) to an 'International' bank in Thailand will go as follows:-

UK branch - UK international head office - Thai international head office - Thai branch.

No intermediary required.

[BennyBlanco]

I can also confirm that the Nationwide form didn't have a space to fill in an intermediary either.

[Bagwan]

I make about half a dozen telegraphic transfers of dosh every year, always in Sterling, from my bank in Jersey. When I banked with Thai Farmers the only charge that I was aware of was made by my UK bank, and this was always 15 pounds. When I moved to UOB not only was I charged 15 pounds by the UK bank but amounts between 500 and 1000 baht, presumably calculated on the transferred sum, were also debited to my UOB account.

I raised this matter with the UOB bank manager who insisted that the money was not retained by UOB. My UK bank also protested their innocence. After climbing into the upper echelons of UOB management and laying about me, they supplied me with the routing information. The money first went to Barclays Bank in London who transmitted it to Krung Thai Bank in BKK who transferred the dosh to UOB. The additional charge was levied by KTB. Why this should be so defies logical explanation since transferring money via an ATM between accounts at different Thai banks attracts a charge of an insignificant amount; not so if effected via a bank teller at the counter.

There was a simple answer to this. Open a KTB account and when the money arrives draw it out, walk down the road and deposit it in the bank of your choice. KTB for their greed, or inefficiency, now have to maintain an account holding an absolute minimum credit balance i.e. it costs them money.

You have a right to be handed a copy of the routing instructions but you will have to fight officialdom for it. You will probably find it interesting and may even save you money. The route money takes depends on interbank connections and it seems that Bank of Scotland does not get into bed with any Thai bank, or indeed UOB. One would think that a link with a major Singapore bank would be worthwhile. Maybe the bank pooyais didn't go to the same public school.

Collecting THB here and depositing an agreed compensatory amount of Sterling in a UK bank is illegal, as a former bank manager should well know. The Exchange Control department of BOT are people I choose not to fall foul of.

[Chaimai]

Collecting THB here and depositing an agreed compensatory amount of Sterling in a UK bank is illegal, as a former bank manager should well know. The Exchange Control department of BOT are people I choose not to fall foul of.

Sweetmouth - please explain. What on earth is "an agreed compensatory amount"" and how does an illegality arise ?

[raybingham]

I make about half a dozen telegraphic transfers of dosh every year, always in Sterling, from my bank in Jersey. When I banked with Thai Farmers the only charge that I was aware of was made by my UK bank, and this was always 15 pounds. When I moved to UOB not only was I charged 15 pounds by the UK bank but amounts between 500 and 1000 baht, presumably calculated on the transferred sum, were also debited to my UOB account.

I raised this matter with the UOB bank manager who insisted that the money was not retained by UOB. My UK bank also protested their innocence. After climbing into the upper echelons of UOB management and laying about me, they supplied me with the routing information. The money first went to Barclays Bank in London who transmitted it to Krung Thai Bank in BKK who transferred the dosh to UOB. The additional charge was levied by KTB. Why this should be so defies logical explanation since transferring money via an ATM between accounts at different Thai banks attracts a charge of an insignificant amount; not so if effected via a bank teller at the counter.

There was a simple answer to this. Open a KTB account and when the money arrives draw it out, walk down the road and deposit it in the bank of your choice. KTB for their greed, or inefficiency, now have to maintain an account holding an absolute minimum credit balance i.e. it costs them money.

You have a right to be handed a copy of the routing instructions but you will have to fight officialdom for it. You will probably find it interesting and may even save you money. The route money takes depends on interbank connections and it seems that Bank of Scotland does not get into bed with any Thai bank, or indeed UOB. One would think that a link with a major Singapore bank would be worthwhile. Maybe the bank pooyais didn't go to the same public school.

Collecting THB here and depositing an agreed compensatory amount of Sterling in a UK bank is illegal, as a former bank manager should well know. The Exchange Control department of BOT are people I choose not to fall foul of.

I trust that you are not referring to option (e) in my earlier post.

There is nothing illegal about withdrawing money from a UK bank account via a Thai bank ATM.

[lopburi3]

Unless you are using a very large bank that has direct connections with the Thai bank an intermediate bank is required - but your bank should have a normal bank that they can use - in my case they always tell me they will use Chase NY and get my OK when making transfer to my Bangkok Bank account.

What does concern me a great deal is a medical procedure from non credit card authorized facility. That is scary.

[Bagwan]

Collecting THB here and depositing an agreed compensatory amount of Sterling in a UK bank is illegal, as a former bank manager should well know. The Exchange Control department of BOT are people I choose not to fall foul of.

Sweetmouth - please explain. What on earth is "an agreed compensatory amount"" and how does an illegality arise ?

You want baht and want to pay in Sterling. I confirm that I have the required amount of baht and am happy to receive Sterling in lieu. We check the Telex transfer rate for Sterling in the business section of the day's Bangkok Post since we have agreed use this since the banks have no problem with it. You had over X amount of baht and I hand over X divided by the exchange rate pounds. What each of us receive is an agreed compensatory amount in the currency of our choice for our outgoings.

Although I have some experience of banking practice I am not an ex-banker so don't take the following as Gospel.

If you pay somebody in Sterling in the UK and accept THB in Thailand you are in contravention of Exchange Control regulations of both countries. All Governments need to control inflows and outflows of currency to maintain proper exchange rates and more importantly, foreign currency reserves. Imagine there being billions down in the cellar but it is all in Zimbabwe dollars or Simbas or whatever they call their washers. With inflation there at 1200% you'd be quids out every day.

In very simple terms, if you ask your UK bank to remit money to you, you should ask that they transfer a Sterling amount so that you get a better exchange rate. Sterling notionally arrives here and helps build the Sterling amount that BOT hold in their coffers. They need this pot of money to pay for goods and services that Thailand receives from the UK. You can be sure that nobody in the UK wants to be paid in Thai baht for transactions. I should think that the actuality is that a Sterling credit is paid to the BOT branch in London and BOT in BKK reimburse the Thai bank paying out here. The whole operation is merely shuffling paper about based on mutual confidence that actual money or gold equivalent will be forthcoming if necessary.

If an illegal transaction is detected then it is almost certain that an investigation will be carried out to ensure that this is not part of a money laundering operation. My understanding is that all foreign exchange transactions, both in and out of the country are recorded by BOT. If a largish sum is involved then an explanation will be called for. I don't know what amount would trigger this. This measure is one of the major elements of keeping the drug market situation in check.

If for example a new arrival transfers 100K of his native currency and after 6 months decides that he doesn't like the place unless a record of that money arriving here exists as verified by BOT, then under the Thai Exchange Control regulations the money cannot be transferred back out. This is good enough reason to ask for the routing instructions and a copy of the paperwork.

If you swapped currencies in Thailand, no great harm is done because the Sterling amount is here in the country already as is the baht. You may however expose yourself to the possibility of a criminal charge because you do not have a Money Changing licence. It would never do for the 'influential people' who control the Thai banking system to lose out in anyway, would it?

Having put my head on the block no doubt others have a different understanding and will say so, hopefully with humility and respect.