Start Ubunti Unstall From Within Windows - Possible?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello.

I know there is Wubi. But as far as i understand, that won't create a distinct partition for Ubuntu, right? Here's my problem:

Have yet another computer (last one!) that doesn't run Linux yet. It's got XP on it. And it's a COMPAQ, to be precise a prehistoric "Deskpro EN" (but modified to take a 900 MHz Celeron and a decent, albeit PCI, graphics card).

It boots from the HDD - and from the HDD only! Not from CD or USB devices. To get that done, i need to get into the BIOS.

However with that sort of Compaq, to make the function "F10 for setup" work, you need to have a specific diskette in the floppy drive.

And the machine has NOT got a floppy drive, i replaced that with front USB ports (lots of home-brew in that machine!) and the mainboard connector for a floppy drive requires a specific, special, cable - which i don't have.

So in short - no way to run a diskette, and no BIOS without that, hence - no boot from CD.

So is it at all possible to start the Ubuntu-setup from within Windows, but let it install in a way that in the end Windows is wiped out and only Ubuntu resides on the machine?

I appreciate any advice on this, many thanks in advance

Best regards.....

Thanh

[slackula]

A floppy to enter BIOS? Weird!

Can you hold down a key (any key) as the machine does the POST to force an 'error'? (Usually signalled by a long beep or two.) Sometimes this will give a way to access the BIOS to correct the 'error'.

[autonomous_unit]

I don't know Ubuntu, but with Fedora it is easy to boot an install off of the HDD by creating a GRUB entry with the kernel and initrd.img from the network-based installer media (usually a small USB disk image file for writing to thumb drives called "bootdisk.img"). I've done this on some small laptops with no CD or floppy available. Just loopback mount the installer image and pull out the kernel and initrd files, consulting the syslinux or similar boot description if you need to remind yourself what the boot entry should contain. I do this routinely to reinstall an existing Linux host, and have never faced the problem of starting with a Windows host...

In your case, it might be easiest to pull the hard drive and initialize it via another machine or a USB housing? You could just format and image a full installation that you know has the right hardware support enabled, e.g. the right storage drivers in the initrd. You could try to adjust a full install for the machine's hardware using mkinitrd to add unusual modules... or, just initialize the HDD with GRUB and the install kernel+initrd and then boot the installer after you replace the drive in the original machine.

I don't think I can give a full grub tutorial, so you'd need to learn this part yourself... the easiest way would be to use a system installer to initialize the drive from another computer, e.g. perhaps mapping the entire drive as a virtual disk under VMware and booting the installer in the VMware guest to allow it to partition and initialize MBR etc.

[dave_boo]

Don't know if you can use a usb floppy or not, it may be something to consider.

I would also like to add that simply downloading the latest Slax will get you a mini-distro install cd. You can use this to install to FAT32. From there you should be able to reboot and be in a Linux enviroment. Follow autonomous_unit's suggestions and revel in your Ubuntu install.

I'll try and translate what he said, so a newbie can understand. You know how in GRUB you have the options for the various distros? Basically what you need to do is create a new entry that points to an *.iso of your install disk (preferably on a USB drive) or a networked image. I also don't know if Ubuntu has a "net install" disk, but SuSE does. It's a lot more lite weight and would allow you to choose and download only the packages that you want installed. After you have the proper grub entries, just rebooting and choosing your *.iso will be like having a boot disk in the cd-drive. Advantages are quicker install times, learning a new method of doing something, etc. Disadvantages are learning a new way of doing something, a bit time consuming to set up, etc.

Edited May 30, 2008 by dave_boo

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

Thanks for all replies. Yeah, it seems my only way of getting this done is with the mentioned "loopback" install, it requires me to download the Ubuntu "alternate Install" CD as it won't work with the Live CD.

The drive XP is on is NTFS, of course.... no FAT. And a USB floppy is not an option - to get the thing to boot from USB i need to get into the BIOS, too, and that is the exact problem

It seems that this particular Compaq type has it's BIOS not in ROM but on a small partition on the HDD. Upon installing XP, this got wiped out when formatting the HDD so now the computer only knows it's hardware (can't be changed in the BIOS) but "forgot" the other options that were set in the "HDD BIOS". Hence i se that prompt "press F10 for setup" but pressing it actually doesn't do anything, it displays "Compaq setup" for a second, then goes on to boot from HDD. To rectify this problem, Compaq has the software available - but it does, as mentioned, require a floppy drive. The default boot order for that machine is probably Floppy-HDD-CD.

Maybe i should attempt to somehow destroy the MBR so it CAN'T boot from HDD - it will go to CD then.

umm, most likely the stupidest question you have ever heard on a support forum - how to destroy an XP MBR..?

Ooooh.... Windows boot -> F8 -> safe mode with command prompt -> CD drive - would THAT work????? Then have a SuperGRUB disk in there (i've got one) and install Grub, which, in turn, has an option "boot from CD"........

I'll never accept a free Compaq again

Best regards.....

Thanh

[dave_boo]

I'd still recommend borrowing a usb based floppy. IF legacy support is enabled, it should automatically find the usb FDD and boot from that.

Your idea about the WinXP startup in safe mode probably won't work....because you'll be in a DOS enviroment. So you won't be able to get your SuperGRUB disk to take over the operating system. Of course, it's worth a try!

[slackula]

Maybe i should attempt to somehow destroy the MBR so it CAN'T boot from HDD - it will go to CD then.

That's not a bad idea as long as you don't mind losing everything on the HD currently. Any one of the Linux distro installation disks will have a formatting option early on, Slackware ( ) can manage fine without an MBR if I remember correctly. Perhaps this is a GRUB issue which could be fixed with LiLo?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

Thanks again for replies. About the floppy, i doubt very much it would work - that machine is so old, i believe "legacy support" wasn't even invented then Originally it has only USB 1.1, i put the 2.0 ports there myself (PCI-USB card, internal wiring to front USB hub in place of former floppy). This computer came with a sticker "Made for Windows 98", just to give you an idea HOW old that is

regarding the HDD and the data on it - there's none. It runs a barebones XP who's sole purpose was to record video from UBC via a TV tuner card. Apart from XP only the software for that TV tuner is installed, the machine runs without mouse or keyboard as everything, apart from cold boot, can be done via the remote control that came with the TV tuner card (the IR sensor, coincidentally, is where the floppy eject button used to be). The machine is basically a home-made video recorder on Compaq-basis, powered by Windows XP.

The problem is that the software that came with the TV tuner is so buggy that it stopped working after about two days.. .defeating the purpose. Which is why i want to try with Ubuntu and "Mythbuntu" which is specialized for that exact purpose - video recording.

So anyway, the HDD will be formatted when i get Linux to boot somehow, i don't want Windows on there anymore as it is not doing any good.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[dave_boo]

If you're not worried about the data on your Compaq drive, pull it and stick it in your Linux box. A simple

dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hd*

where hd* is the location of your Compaq's hdd will blitz everything on it.

Alternatively, if you're brave, you can try and copy your Linux's install onto your Compaq's drive with

dd if=/dev/hd* of=/dev/hd**

where hd* is your Linux hard drive and hd** is your Compaq's. Of course, if you get kernel panics when you stick your Compaq's drive back into your computer, you're going to have to blitz your drive anyways.

Edited May 30, 2008 by dave_boo

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

I just wish to mark my problem as "solved". I installed this little software in Windows that modified the boot sector so it could boot from the already inserted Ubuntu Live-CD, rebooted the machine and really, it booted that CD.

So then i installed Ubuntu and wiped Windows in the process.

And now that computer is running Ubuntu - and even the BIOS works again! Seems only XP messed the original Compaq bootsector in a way that BIOS was bypassed, now, with Grub in there, pressing F10 when prompted gives me full access to the BIOS and all it's (very limited) options.

Now i only have to figure out how to convince the freshly installed Ubuntu to work with only a TV as a display (and on a PCI graphics card to top it off!) and all will be fine

Best regards, and thanks to all for replying......

Thanh

[dave_boo]

Thanh, congrats on getting Linux installed on your computer.