Hostility And Misinformation Towards "alternative Medcine'

[awakened]

I have created this thread in order to garner opinion on why it is that orthodox medicine is so hostile towards alternatives and to ask whether the apparent desperation shown, to save us from ourselves, is warranted?

It is un-controversial that cures do not exist for many of the diseases of the day.. namely heart disease, cancer and diabetes. If you add the myriad of other conditions such as arthritis, alzheimer's, MS, allergies, asthma, emphysema and a number of others, there are treatments but as of yet, no cures (AFAIK). Many treatments come with a degree of risk which is increasingly unacceptable to many and who really wants to spend the rest of their lives taking medication, when other approaches may be available?

While, of course, there are the unscrupulous all too ready to take advantage of the uninformed, such risks apply to both camps. I seldom hear of anyone dying or being injured from alternative treatments, despite mega headlines when they do. Yet there are hundreds of thousands injured by being given the wrong medication, the wrong dose and even the right medication and the right dose. Yet the industry does little to stem the tide or publicize its errors. It constantly points out the splinter in natural medicine's eye, without addressing the plank in its own.

It is obvious to most people that you are not going to cure the above conditions with one or two aromatherapy therapy massages. Even if such claims are falsely made, the massage is kinda nice and it won't do any harm.

There are some natural or alternative approaches that are credible. There are courageous doctors who, despite the scorn of their colleagues, have recognised the limitations of the current system and are seeking different approaches. These methods are typically non-invasive and non-toxic. Yet they are still vilified by the establishment.

I have already stated that where Allopathic medicine can resolve my problem, I will use it. I have also stated that, for my particular health issues, I found little to encourage me, from mainstream medicine. I don't have a pathological hatred of all things Allopathic, as some on this forum seem to display towards alternatives, although I will defend my choices and fight back against what I see as unfair criticism.

I guess what I am saying is, please give health consumers a break. Like me, they only wish to get well. They should be allowed, having already tried allopathic medicine and been disappointed, to go elsewhere, without being made to feel they are deluded or their choices condemned as dangerous quackery, when they may in fact provide some benefit.

Is that so unreasonable?

[Prakanong]

Cards on the table

I work in big pharma in the R&D department.

When CAM can do the trials and prove it works I will accept - until then anecdotes do not make data and there are million dollar prizes for those who can prove it.

I am not holding my breath

I know some people need to believe - its like religion, faith not evidence - whatever gets you through the day.

Edited May 31, 2008 by Prakanong

[Sir Burr]

Good post.

I'd rather put my belief in objective medical science than methods that have no basis in fact.

But, hey, that's just me.

Edited May 31, 2008 by Sir Burr

[backflip]

There are several things wrong with "alternative medicines", and you've chosen to neglect them all.

First: many of the vendors of the medicines complain that big pharma is ripping people off, charging too much. Yet, compared to big pharma's product, the alternative stuff is just as expensive. Second: virtually none of the alternative protocols work. There's always anecdotal stories but, using double-blind statistically valid analyses, the alternative medicines don't work. Just because you think you feel better, it doesn't mean you are better. Third: alternative medicines prevent users from using effective medications available from big pharma. Fourth: alternative medications can cause serious health problems. The Finnish CARET study was ended years earlier than expected, because mega-doses CAUSED an increase of cancer risk...not the substantial decrease the alternative medications promised.

Frankly, no one at TV cares what you take to cure yourself, but you should make a judgement based on knowledge, not ignorance.

[Prakanong]

"using double-blind statistically valid analyses,"

Randomised double blind studies can be argued to be one of the greatest advances in medicine - we know know what works!

CAM has never procved anything and can not and will not try

[FBN]

A very simple truth: If there is only one cure for a particular ailment, it is sure to work 100% of time. If there are a myriad of cures, either conventional or alternative, be sure none of them will work 100%.

Humans are multidimensional beings and their afflictions are similar. Medicine have lost, to a large extent, the focus and ability to deal with humans and their conditions in a holistic fashion. Many reasons for this; superspecialisation, time etc etc.

Perhaps alternative medicine fills this niche. The large percentage of psychosomatic problems the generalist practitioner are faced with finds cure mostly in non-conventional medicine. To ignore it is falacy. There are though, far more "dubious" products and practitioners in this "art" than there are in good old fashioned medicine.

A balanced view, as with everything in life, is golden.

[Sir Burr]

A very simple truth: If there is only one cure for a particular ailment, it is sure to work 100% of time. If there are a myriad of cures, either conventional or alternative, be sure none of them will work 100%.

Faulty logic.

[Sir Burr]

Just because something has been used for a thousand years, doesn't make it effective, just means it wasn't harmful.

Bleeding the afflicted, comes to mind.

[Gary A]

I am skeptical of Rhinoceros horn, Bear bile, Tiger penis and Snake blood. Granted there are a lot of natural herbs that may be beneficial. The shame of this type of "medicine" is in the outrageous claims sellers come up with. I am also of the opinion that the green tea revolution is more bunk than anything.

[FBN]

A very simple truth: If there is only one cure for a particular ailment, it is sure to work 100% of time. If there are a myriad of cures, either conventional or alternative, be sure none of them will work 100%.

Faulty logic.

See the statement in context of the thread and the rest of the post.

But to go back to the "logic"; let's take the statement out of the medical context and make it more simple:

Problem: You drop your wallet.

Solution: You bend down, pick it up and replace it where you want it to be.

Simple solution, works every time.

Alternate solutions:

• You wait for a dodgy passerby to pick it up and hand it to you
  
• You take off your shoe and, pinching it between the big and second toe, (not polite in Thailand!) and retrieve said object
  
• You purchase a wallet picker-upper device (if you can't find any, there may be a reason for it..) and retrieve the same
  
• etc etc
  

I am sure, at some point in time, any of the above solutions may have been attempted but it is not a recognised and commonly practiced way of solving this common problem; there is one solution that works...

Logic or still no?

[awakened]

'There are several things wrong with "alternative medicines", and you've chosen to neglect them all.'

That's because I was asking about orthodox attitudes to alt-med. Alternative medicines woudn't cover the whole field anyway. For instance, there are many bodywork approaches that don't use medicines.

'I am skeptical of Rhinoceros horn, Bear bile, Tiger penis and Snake blood.'

Aren't we all? I have never met anyone who has tried them.

'Randomised double blind studies can be argued to be one of the greatest advances in medicine - we know know what works!'

I agree. As long as they can be trusted. Were they used with Thalidomide? Or Vioxx? Or http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/05/10/21.php There is clearly a conflict of interest when the data is being provided by the vendor.

The problem for the 'Show me the proof' brigade' is that the horse has already bolted. Consumers don't ask for studies, they rely on the experts to do that for them. Unfortunately the experts are not giving the patients what they want. Cures. And patients have lost confidence in the system. Scorn won't bring it back.

'CAM has never proved anything and can not and will not try'

There is a difference between a global corporation and a small town naturopath/alt-med practitioner. One has the resources, the other doesn't. The naturopath can point to the outcomes he is achieving and provide feeback from patients but is stuffed when the orthodoxy says 'Not good enough'.

Is it possible to find a large enough study group to conduct double-blind trials for, say, a naturopath? His treatment protocol consists of several steps. He detoxes the body, treats parasites, provides nutritional supplements, improves cellular respiration, balances PH, makes dietary changes, encourages movement of the body through exercise and may also direct the patient to spend a month by the sea. In general this type of approach is not overly reliant on diagnosis. Is it possible to conduct a trial under this circumstance? I don't know, I'm just asking. How would you know which of the steps made the largest improvement?

If its true that 30% of pharmaceuticals are derived from herbs, bark, shrubs, then there are an awful lot of herbs out there that must be useful. The difficulty for a herbalist or naturopath is that the barriers to entry are set so high. It takes millions to 'prove' anything these days so how can an alt-med practitioner even begin to try?

I like the idea of government protecting the consumer but when government is indistinguishable from corporations who can you trust?

[Gary A]

Quite frankly I hate all drugs. I don't even take Paracetamol unless I am really suffering. As far as detoxing the body, enemas are for people who are constipated and NOT for the detoxing properties. I know a guy who refuses to eat anything cooked. In fact he is a board member. Absolutely no meat. Up to him.

Unfortunately I do take some drugs. I take 10 mg of an ACE inhibitor, a 60 mg aspirin and 100 MG of alopurinol every day. Without these drugs I have high blood pressure and suffer from gout. Am I willing to eat nothing cooked, no beer and no meat so I can stop taking these drugs. NOT a chance.

[Sheryl]

"Orthodox medicine" is not a uniform entity.

I think the majority of practitioners of modern (allopathic) medicine recognize that there are things that are helpful and effective among the various treatments that some might describe as "alternative" medicine (Personally prefer to think of it as "complementary" ). They also recognize that there are things that are useless, things that are harmful, and things that while of some benefit are subject to unrealistic/exaggerated hype.

Certainly the mainstream medical journals and associations do not take the black-and-white extreme position you suggest.

This need not be an antagonistic matter. Why phrase it as such?

[awakened]

"Orthodox medicine" is not a uniform entity.

I think the majority of practitioners of modern (allopathic) medicine recognize that there are things that are helpful and effective among the various treatments that some might describe as "alternative" medicine (Personally prefer to think of it as "complementary" ). They also recognize that there are things that are useless, things that are harmful, and things that while of some benefit are subject to unrealistic/exaggerated hype.

Certainly the mainstream medical journals and associations do not take the black-and-white extreme position you suggest.

This need not be an antagonistic matter. Why phrase it as such?

I phrased it as such since I sense hostility. If you check the 'recommended books' post I made. I was looking for books that had provided inspiration. A 'Eureka!' moment. What do we find but two posts whose selections are attacks on Alternative or Complementary Medicine. Hence, my creating this post to try to understand why.

[awakened]

Quite frankly I hate all drugs. I don't even take Paracetamol unless I am really suffering. As far as detoxing the body, enemas are for people who are constipated and NOT for the detoxing properties. I know a guy who refuses to eat anything cooked. In fact he is a board member. Absolutely no meat. Up to him.

Unfortunately I do take some drugs. I take 10 mg of an ACE inhibitor, a 60 mg aspirin and 100 MG of alopurinol every day. Without these drugs I have high blood pressure and suffer from gout. Am I willing to eat nothing cooked, no beer and no meat so I can stop taking these drugs. NOT a chance.

Corporations want consumers 'sucking on the corporate tit' from the cradle to the grave. Looks like you will be giving them what they want.

You are probably in the majority Gary. I have a neighbour with chronic emphysema who refuses to give up 3 packs per day. 'It's my only pleasure he says'.

Doctors are faced with this all the time. It's part of the reason many Allopathic Doctors don't tell patients to make lifestyle changes, even if they can see it's necessary. When patients don't help themselves what can Doctors do? They aren't miracle workers. People who visit alternative or complementary practitioners tend to have a different mindset.

I believe enemas are usually given on day two and three of a fast when the body lets go of its toxic load. There can be problems if so many toxins are re-absorbed into the body. I've also had enemas before a colonoscopy and sucking up water from a gourd, to clean the bowel, is in the Bible. Anyway, it isn't necessary. There are gentler methods of detoxing.

One man's meat is another man's poison?

My understanding is gout is due to excess acidity and meat and beer are acid-forming. I know someone like you who didn't want to give up life's little pleasures so instead added a lemon juice and baking soda drink to his daily regime to try and balance his ph. He seems to be okay on it.

I'll probably be slapped for relaying an anecdote and not conducting a trial but I once spent 7 years on a hillside in the Algarve. The Portuguese men looked like the animals they consume, short and rotund. They ate a lot of pork and as a consequence the major killer was heart disease. They would drop like flies around age 50-55.

I don't thrive on raw food myself and need to eat some meat or I'd disappear down a crack in the pavement. Recently I had an issue over this and have improved thanks to the advice on this board.

Sometimes it's simply a matter of getting back to basics. A walk in the morning, an hour in the sun, getting sufficient rest and chew your food properly.

This is to remind ME! Sorry about that.

[Sir Burr]

My understanding is gout is due to excess acidity and meat and beer are acid-forming. I know someone like you who didn't want to give up life's little pleasures so instead added a lemon juice and baking soda drink to his daily regime to try and balance his ph. He seems to be okay on it.

Just a couple of questions here.

Firstly, lemon juice is acidic and baking soda is alkali, thus cancelling each other out. What use would that be?

Secondly, how can anything you digest alter pH when you never eat anything more acidic than your own stomach acid?

[ZZZ]

"using double-blind statistically valid analyses,"

Randomised double blind studies can be argued to be one of the greatest advances in medicine - we know know what works!

CAM has never procved anything and can not and will not try

There are several reasons why CAM has never proved anything and can not and will not try:

Trials cost an enormous amount of money.

All CAM is public domain and can probably not be patented, so why spend money on trials if you can not protect the product.

Most people and institutions performing trials are owned by or heavily sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry.

It's really a no win situation for CAM as long as this field is controlled by Big Pharma.

Fortunately the tide is turning and there are more and more traditional healing methods being used as they are proven more effective both when it comes to cost and healing, normally without the harmful side effects of modern medicine.

[Sir Burr]

Fortunately the tide is turning and there are more and more traditional healing methods being used as they are proven more effective both when it comes to cost and healing, normally without the harmful side effects of modern medicine.

Can you give some examples please?

[ZZZ]

Acupuncture has made big inroads in the west and is accepted as treatment for many things.

[kat]

Cards on the table

I work in big pharma in the R&D department.

When CAM can do the trials and prove it works I will accept - until then anecdotes do not make data and there are million dollar prizes for those who can prove it.

I am not holding my breath

I know some people need to believe - its like religion, faith not evidence - whatever gets you through the day.

Good post.

I'd rather put my belief in objective medical science than methods that have no basis in fact.

But, hey, that's just me.

The problem here is that allopathic medicine is not reliable or objective, nor are your posts. There is plenty of evidence of the failures and lack of objectivity of allopathic medicine, and the success of CAM. Neither one is all perfect, but complementary. As for myself, I prefer disease prevention rather than disease treatment, which is why I turn to CAM before illnesses become full-blown disease. If you wanted evidence of the biased way medical journals report "success" and the money barriers to "objective scientific trials", it's out there in abundance. But, you don't.

As for me, I prefer not to support the toxic pharma industry unless I require antibiotics for a bacterial infection, or if my pre-disease symptoms have progressed to full-blown disease due to the oversight of the allopathic medical profession who "efficiently" treat symptoms, and not underlying conditions. Think auto mechanics: good for diagnostic tests and extractions or tune ups, but you better bloody-well have more than idea when you have a problem or you'll be seeing them a lot more than you'd like.

[girlx]

sorry, what is CAM?

[OxfordWill]

"If alternative medicine is tested and is shown to work, it no longer gets called "alternative". So called "alternative medicine" is either yet to be tested, or as failed its test." [sic]

Alternative medicine which has failed the test of science - a.k.a a complete waste of time.

actually Ill add to that by saying the only possible case in which it is not a waste of time is where consideration for the phenomenon of mind of matter comes into play. But of course, if you're aware of that phenomenon, you're largely not affected by it. So go ahead and believe everything, try everything that isnt directly harmful but dont ever let "alternative medicine" take priority over actual medicine.

Edited May 31, 2008 by OxfordWill

[awakened]

Just a couple of questions here.

Firstly, lemon juice is acidic and baking soda is alkali, thus cancelling each other out. What use would that be?

Secondly, how can anything you digest alter pH when you never eat anything more acidic than your own stomach acid?

Lemon juice is acid however it creates an alkali ash in the body. Drink the fresh juice then test the ph of your urine or saliva an hour later. You will find it has raised.

If stomach acid was the only factor wouldn't we be in a permanently acidic state? It seems inconceivable that food can create an acid state and not an alkaline one.

The only personal experience I have that may be relevant is that I experience joint pain (eased by the warm climate) in knees, knuckles, toes. If I eat a diet which is too acidic... for example, care of Mr Ronald McDonald, I feel a twinge of discomfort mostly in my toes and sometimes more palpable pain which goes when I change the food. Since I have stripped out all the likely culprits... refined grains, dairy, alcohol, red meats, sodas, I rarely experience these reactions.

Stress also increases acidity, raising the PH. You can test this yourself. Next time you are angry test the PH of your saliva. Perhaps why someone who is bitter or angry is said to have an 'acid tongue'.

I have seen crystals in my live blood using darkfield microscopy which would also indicate an acid state and some foods trigger mouth ulcers within hours.

I am not a chemist but if food doesn't influence alkalinity, what mechanism is maintaining the Acid/Alkali balance? Without some other balancing mechanism we would just consume the Calcium from our bones.

When I was maintaining swimming pools I needed to balance the water. If too acidic the tiles grout would start to be eaten away. If too Alkali the pipework and pumps would become coated.

To me, balancing PH using food seems entirely plausible.

[awakened]

With reference to acidity I had forgotten the blood test given to me by a naturopath who, I rated very highly but didn't see enough of, which showed some crystal formation indicative of an acid state. Readers may find these of interest.

Taken by Darkfield Microscopy here is a picture of a crystal similar to one seen in my blood and an explanation. I have also added a couple of other images relevant to me.

Cholesterol Crystal

Cholesterol is an important sterol in the body that is the precursor for many important hormones. Only when the body is acidic does the cholesterol crystallize and become a problem. This is probably the most seen crystal in blood analysis, but it's important to realize that cholesterol is not the problem when you see the crystals, acidity is.

I didn't see any uric acid crystals (below) at the time of my test but they may have formed in reaction to acidic foods and disappeared once I cleaned up my diet. Either that or the cholesterol crystals may also trigger joint pain. Experts may know.

Uric Acid Crystal

Uric acid is a byproduct of protein metabolization and urea. When the body becomes acidic the urea forms crystals that can lodge in the joints or in the tissues. Uric acid is the cause of gout and one of the causes of fibromyalgia. These crystals are shaped like knives and is the reason it can cause so much pain for people with either of these disorders.

This is a picture of a parasitic infection. With my blood I could see a smaller size parasite 'pulsating' in the middle of the cells I didn't have the darker dying? cells.

Parasitized Red Blood Cells

This is bacteria or parasites that get inside the cells. Of course the cell will die, and unless they are stopped by the immune system, they will continue to attack other cells.

I post this next one to highlight, not the gross object, but the 'fluff' or debris. This is apparently indicative of degenerative disorder and I believe I am not adequately assimilating nutrients hence my weight loss.

Fungal Forms

Fungi can spread throughout your body through the blood and develop colonies. They usually develop slowly and are hard to diagnose and usually resistant to treatment. They are seldom fatal and most of the time go unnoticed. This is a sign of poor assimilation of nutrients and an acidic condition in the body fluids.

There was some aggregation..

Erythrocyte Aggregation

This condition is one step worse than rouleau. This is often seen in people with degenerative diseases. This is caused by undigested fats and proteins and high acidity. Degeneration of tissue always follows low oxygen and acidity. This condition can precede a blood clot which can cause a stroke or heart attack.

There was one more of significance to me, which showed teardrop-shaped (very appropriate) red blood cells, indicative of long term stress. No picture unfortunately.

Lastly here is a picture of a normal healthy RBC slide.

Normal Red Blood Cell (RBCs)

The circulatory system is the means by which oxygen, nutrients, antibodies, and hormones are transported to the cells to keep them alive and functioning. This is how our blood looks when we are experiencing optimum health. The Erythrocytes (cells) are round and separated and move through the capillaries very easily. The average size of healthy RBCs is 7.2 microns

I posted earlier asking if there was Darkfield Microscopy in Thailand to see whether things had improved or worsened since my last test. No responses so far and I think I already know the answer. Not much.

FWIW.

[geriatrickid]

Please do not make a FALSE statement. On the contrary, medicine is quite open to alternative methods. How else would we have made progress over the past 50 years? The only requirement asked of innovative and alternative methods is that they be shown to offer benefit.

Clinical trials are really just a variation of the old hypothesis testing format. The theory is either proven or disproven or modified etc. This process has worked for centuries and is responsible for giving us stuff like vaccines. It wasn't too long ago that people doubted the benefits of a cowpox vaccine in respect to smallpox. In 1957 Sabin was ridiculed for using a live attenuated polio vaccine but he was able to prove his theory and millions were saved from a crippling illness. Sabin was off the wall and the alternative medicine poster boy of his era. (BTW he was funded by Lederele the big pharma company of its time) Remember Lister? He's the guy that introduced cleanliness to surgery. Until the late 1800's no one washed anything. The idea of antiseptics was uber alternative. Lister was at first dismissed as an overly religious crackpot that had allowed his Christian beliefs on cleanliness to get in the way. However, Lister was vindicated because he could show his methods were effective.

Do you understand that there are many plant and animal specialists trudging through the various jungles of this planet seeking out new herbs, plants, bugs, molds, fungi etc. that offer insight to dealing with various maladies and conditions. They are funded in large part by universities and pharma companies. These hardy often incredibly fun people (I know - I dated a girl that thought putting a snake in my sleeping bag would be good for a laugh as I ran around screaming like a katoey) come up with some awfully odd theories and suggestions that assist medical researchers. Today we have leaches bred specifically to drain wounds. They even use maggots for wound debridement. Would you be shocked to know that maggots are now proposed for use with some forms of skin tumour treatments. This is an accepted option because the proposing hospitals and doctors were able to demonstrate the benefits. You can thank a couple physicist/chemists for CT & MRI technology that was initially dismissed as too off the wall.

The folks touting unproven potions and methods are not alternative medical practioners. they are charlatans playing on the gullibility of those that are scared and ignorant. By it's very nature, modern medicine encourages and promotes alternatives. Medical researchers along with their colleagues in natural & physical sciences today are the true seekers and providers of alternatives. BTW, it was modern medicine that came up with treatments using light sources for seasonal mood disorders, not the potion pushers. It was also modern medicine that came up with hair growth options for the bald unlike the snake oil salesman of the golden age of alternative medicine.

Edited June 1, 2008 by geriatrickid

[FBN]

The post above with the micro slides and related diagnoses are an example of why "alternative" medicine is often ridiculed.

Uric acid crystal occur in joints not blood; if it did, you would probably not be on TV writing about it.. Cholesterol is not a crystal; crystals are inorganic matter. Roleaux formation, yes but the slide just demonstrates the difference between a thick and a thin blood smear. The diagnosis of policythemia is made on the full blood picture, not a smear.

There is an artifact on the other slide; passed off as a crystal.. Pulsating parasite? By the name of?

No, fellas; I fully support areas of alternative medicine; many of these over the years have become accepted as current medical practice as the last post (gertatrickid) clearly illustrates. Many more practices regarded today as alternative will still be researched and eventually be accepted as conventional medicine but some things in that post are clearly out of whack..

[ZZZ]

The post above with the micro slides and related diagnoses are an example of why "alternative" medicine is often ridiculed.

Uric acid crystal occur in joints not blood; if it did, you would probably not be on TV writing about it.. Cholesterol is not a crystal; crystals are inorganic matter. Roleaux formation, yes but the slide just demonstrates the difference between a thick and a thin blood smear. The diagnosis of policythemia is made on the full blood picture, not a smear.

There is an artifact on the other slide; passed off as a crystal.. Pulsating parasite? By the name of?

No, fellas; I fully support areas of alternative medicine; many of these over the years have become accepted as current medical practice as the last post (gertatrickid) clearly illustrates. Many more practices regarded today as alternative will still be researched and eventually be accepted as conventional medicine but some things in that post are clearly out of whack..

Nature is full of organic crystals, diamonds are just one of thousands of others

Do a search on cholesterol crystals and you will find numerous pages with info from reputed medical sources.

Edited June 1, 2008 by ZZZ

[FBN]

Nature is full of organic crystals, diamonds are just one of thousands of others

Do a search on cholesterol crystals and you will find numerous pages with info from reputed medical sources.

My reply seems to have gone astray in TV cyberspace..

Indeed, a momentary lapse!! I stand corrected... but I don't want any of them coursing around in my bloodstream anyway...

[Crushdepth]

This thread is kind of wandering off track now. But with reference to the original post, it is hardly fair to raise the spectre of 'hostility' towards alternative medicine without aknowledging the blatant hostility of the alternative medicine crowd to conventional medicine, aka 'big pharma'.

With regards to misinformation, the situation is even worse. What the conventional medicine crowd frequently ask for is *scientific evidence*. The balance of misinformation overwhelmingly lies with alternative medicine, which is mostly based on folklore, voodoo conspiracy theories, nice packaging and good vibes.

I have seen crystals in my live blood using darkfield microscopy which would also indicate an acid state and some foods trigger mouth ulcers within hours.

Some foods create large swollen ulcers in my mouth within a few minutes. I've never been able to figure out exactly what the ingredient is though.

[kat]

"If alternative medicine is tested and is shown to work, it no longer gets called "alternative". So called "alternative medicine" is either yet to be tested, or as failed its test." [sic]

Alternative medicine which has failed the test of science - a.k.a a complete waste of time.

actually Ill add to that by saying the only possible case in which it is not a waste of time is where consideration for the phenomenon of mind of matter comes into play. But of course, if you're aware of that phenomenon, you're largely not affected by it. So go ahead and believe everything, try everything that isnt directly harmful but dont ever let "alternative medicine" take priority over actual medicine.

Yes, Dawkins is a respected evolutionary biologist and scientist, but that does not immunize him from bias. In the installment above, he chooses the most far out and questionable aspects of "alternative medicine", which is not in the realm of medicine at all, but really alternative spirituality, such as that airy-fairy woman who does guided meditations or the shop with crystals and "angels". He did not interview any of the people in that class to support the assumption that meditation is a replacement or "challenge" to allopathic medicine rather than a supplement. It is not a replacement for a "cure", but rather a way to stay positive, which as we know is scientifically proven to increase the chances of people with serious illnesses. What is wrong with guided meditation and positive imaging if you are sick? Conventional medicine sends people to psychiatrists and prescribes pharmaceuticals for peace of mind, so why not guided meditation if it helps them cope with their illness? Rather than complaining, I think you should be proud that England's health service is so responsive to its nationals, by providing them with an approach that is integrative and flexible. It is quite advanced.

Also, your dismissal of "alternative medicine" is such a wide swipe that it is completely meaningless. Should I completely dismiss allopathic medicine because of unforgivable mistakes such as amputating the wrong leg or longterm misdiagnoses/dismissals or "solutions" driven by "efficiency", and reaping financial rewards for prescribing some pharmaceuticals over others and suppressing scientific trials for financial reasons? Of course not, but for me that is a lot more suspect than a few crystals and a guided meditation therapy. The FACT of the matter is that alternative medicine and "anecdotal" herbal remedies are as much a part of science as they are biology and the natural world, starting with the remedy of White Willow Bark by Hippocrates in the 5th Century. Have you heard of that folk remedy? - it goes by the name of ASPIRIN today. How do you think the father of medicine figured that one out - in a lab? No, he did so by observation and reasoning, helped considerably by the folkloric wisdom of Egyptians, Native Americans, and later Europeans who had been using it CENTURIES before it was anointed "science".

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FK...i_18169209/pg_1

White willow bark is a gentle, effective pain-reliever

Please do not make a FALSE statement. On the contrary, medicine is quite open to alternative methods. How else would we have made progress over the past 50 years? The only requirement asked of innovative and alternative methods is that they be shown to offer benefit.

Clinical trials are really just a variation of the old hypothesis testing format. The theory is either proven or disproven or modified etc. This process has worked for centuries and is responsible for giving us stuff like vaccines. It wasn't too long ago that people doubted the benefits of a cowpox vaccine in respect to smallpox. In 1957 Sabin was ridiculed for using a live attenuated polio vaccine but he was able to prove his theory and millions were saved from a crippling illness. Sabin was off the wall and the alternative medicine poster boy of his era. (BTW he was funded by Lederele the big pharma company of its time) Remember Lister? He's the guy that introduced cleanliness to surgery. Until the late 1800's no one washed anything. The idea of antiseptics was uber alternative. Lister was at first dismissed as an overly religious crackpot that had allowed his Christian beliefs on cleanliness to get in the way. However, Lister was vindicated because he could show his methods were effective.

Do you understand that there are many plant and animal specialists trudging through the various jungles of this planet seeking out new herbs, plants, bugs, molds, fungi etc. that offer insight to dealing with various maladies and conditions. They are funded in large part by universities and pharma companies. These hardy often incredibly fun people (I know - I dated a girl that thought putting a snake in my sleeping bag would be good for a laugh as I ran around screaming like a katoey) come up with some awfully odd theories and suggestions that assist medical researchers. Today we have leaches bred specifically to drain wounds. They even use maggots for wound debridement. Would you be shocked to know that maggots are now proposed for use with some forms of skin tumour treatments. This is an accepted option because the proposing hospitals and doctors were able to demonstrate the benefits. You can thank a couple physicist/chemists for CT & MRI technology that was initially dismissed as too off the wall.

The folks touting unproven potions and methods are not alternative medical practioners. they are charlatans playing on the gullibility of those that are scared and ignorant. By it's very nature, modern medicine encourages and promotes alternatives. Medical researchers along with their colleagues in natural & physical sciences today are the true seekers and providers of alternatives. BTW, it was modern medicine that came up with treatments using light sources for seasonal mood disorders, not the potion pushers. It was also modern medicine that came up with hair growth options for the bald unlike the snake oil salesman of the golden age of alternative medicine.

Excellent post GK. Thanks for that. The only place where I seem to diverge is that I no longer have the same trust or ideals that you seem to have in the objectives of allopathy. I think they have veered off into the pharmaceutical/bio tech/agribusiness industrial complex, and have forgotten the tenants of their Hippocratic Oath to "do no harm for anyone else's interests". Also, many allopathic physicians are dismissive and downright hostile to homeopathic medicine, which is why this battle has begun in the first place.

The post above with the micro slides and related diagnoses are an example of why "alternative" medicine is often ridiculed.

Uric acid crystal occur in joints not blood; if it did, you would probably not be on TV writing about it.. Cholesterol is not a crystal; crystals are inorganic matter. Roleaux formation, yes but the slide just demonstrates the difference between a thick and a thin blood smear. The diagnosis of policythemia is made on the full blood picture, not a smear.

There is an artifact on the other slide; passed off as a crystal.. Pulsating parasite? By the name of?

No, fellas; I fully support areas of alternative medicine; many of these over the years have become accepted as current medical practice as the last post (gertatrickid) clearly illustrates. Many more practices regarded today as alternative will still be researched and eventually be accepted as conventional medicine but some things in that post are clearly out of whack..

Good one.

edit: spelling

Edited June 1, 2008 by kat