Why Is Thailand So Far Behind The West?

[kat]

For arguments sake, I will stick to the easily referenced questions.  For one, if antiquity is such a trump card in terms of civilization and society, why does Thailand's civil adminstration still face most of the same issues that were present when King Chulangkorn started a modernization process over 100 years ago?

Because in real terms, the civil service today receives just as much from general revenues as it did in King Chula's time.

Right, except for those with a privileged birth-right at the top, or as an MP in Toxin's cabinent. Of course, there are those public servants who seem to keep popping up in the news, amidst transferred assets and hasty disapperances.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point. But my point is that there is a historical and cultural context to why police and other institutions are forced to hunt for their own resources.

[boris]

Samran:

Do you care to elaborate with an actual argument or explanation of your opinion?

I wish I didn't have to.

Most everything written here (except dr PP's comment which I loved) are trying to find some sort of sophisticated sociological/genetic based anwser.....based on a the premise that there is such a thing as 'backwards'. Its the equivalent of academic masterbation.

Does Thailand have problems? Yes, but so does everywhere else.

Is Thailand backwards? Its up to you isn't it? But I don't think so.

Can't it be as simple matter of choice, that things are a certain way, rather than shoving everything though some sort of quasi academic framework which only exists in the mind of a few people?

People make choices in their lives, in general to acheive a situation they want. Thai people obviously do have a choice. In many cases the choice is not to make a choice. The let others make the decision for them. Most of the time they are happy with that outcome. They wind up with the situation they want, and as outsiders we should just accept it. If people want to change something, then they will ( a couple of bloody student revolutions and some truely brilliant civil servants I know come to mind).

In about 2 weeks most Americans aren't going to vote for their next President. So only about 25.5% of them will actually choose the next guy who runs that country. Are most Americans (excluding the losers) going to run around and say the US is backwards because of that? No.

There have been some silly posts on this topic and to be honest,though his heart is in the right place, Samran's one is fairly silly as well.However he does get one point right and that is to dismiss outright the sociological/genetic basis for differences between more advanced economies and Thailand.It is anyway astonishing to me that nobody has commented on Thailand's almost miraculous progress since the end of WW2.Despite all the difficulties progress is essentially about economic organisation and here Thailand has done very well, and I detect nothing in the Thai world view (compared say with many Islamic cultures) that will prevent it from achieving parity in my lifetime.

[samran]

Boris you have hit the nail on the head!

Mine was a silly post, but then again this is a silly topic. Trying to intellectually justify an answer to what is a (in my view) was a silly post is not my strong point.

You are right, Thailand has come a long way, even since the early 80's. Another 30 or 40 years, who knows?

[haha]

my 2 cents....

regarding the many technological advances that have originated from the usa in the past 100 years....

I believe they occurred in the usa because of:

1) educational is highly regarded, and available,

2) information is readily available and shared, and,

3) the promise of monetary rewards.

-1) if you don't have the proper educational background, you will be lacking in the basic stepping stones to invention.

-2) in my lifetime, I've met many people from the old generation who kept secrets pertaining to their trades as a means to ensure future earning power.

I understand the logic, but frankly, this type of behavior stifles progress.

when people are not worried about their livihood, when they are ensured of a supply of food, shelter, and civil stability, that is when their minds can explore new things, to try new ideas, to work together for mutual benefit.

...more people also means more ideas.

-3) last, but not least, money is a factor too. in the usa, if you invent something, you can get a patent on it which will allow you exclusive use of your invention for a period of time. this guarantee is a major reason for why many people are willing to sacrifice major portions of their life in the attempt to invent something.

if the patent system is not honored in the usa, for sure, the number of inventions will decrease.

..who in the right mind would work so hard, and spend so much money to invent something if someone else is allowed to copy the fruits of your labor?

in summary, inventions can happened anywhere in the world given the right circumstances, the right incentives.

[haha]

oh. someone reading my post just mentioned something to me. ..maybe the most important ingrediant for inventions to occur.

acceptance by society, by the people who would be the ones to benefit from the invention.

if people don't want something new in their world, it will not succeed.

..have you ever seen a computer installed in an office, but never used for whatever reason?

[stroll]

"My thoughts too. I'd put Thailand ahead of the West in terms of society and civilization. Do the math. They've been at it for over 2,500 years and to my mind it's further along the evolutionary path than 'Farangland' ".

I would like to actually debate the content of what is said here, rather than our supposed "right" or "entitlement" to have a discussion. Stroll and Boon Mee, you both agree with the above statement. You are arguing that the historical age of a culture equals a more evolved society.

No, I agree with Boon Mee on the basis of my everyday life being much more pleasant than in other places I lived in, simply because I am surrounded by people (mostly working class Thai) who I regard to be much more 'civilised' in a very broad, general sense, than my previous neighbours elsewhere.

My comments don't always qualify as reasoned arguments, nor are they intended to.

This doesn't exclude me from being critical of legal and cultural aspects, namely human rights violations and associated abuses.

And coming back to values, implied already in the question why some nations do better in terms of economics and growth, there is no inherent value attached to 'growth', or does anyone believe the people are happier or more advanced in civilisation because of it?

[Limbo]

Religion? What about religion? The cosmological structure reflecting and explaining all other structures of society?

Was it a coincidence that the protestant ethics replaced or modified the catholic ethics in the sixteenth and seventeenth century? Wasn't that related to changes in the socio-economical field?

We still live (in Thailand) in an agricultural society and even during these times of transition and for a long time to come the culture will be based on that.

Mr. Stroll, are you referring to your feeling of well-being, caused by the simple, warm openness of the local character? Could there then be a parallel with the sayings of older generations that 'in former times everything was better'?

The heartwarming warmness of the soup, handed over the fence to the poor neighbour? This in contrast with institutionalised solidarity executed by a nameless civil servant behind a counter?

Yes, people were more carefull in their social relations before. They had to be. But people in power owned other people. They didn't have to be carefull at all.

But yes, for us, it is nice to be here and to enjoy the friendliness of the Thai people. Unless you are poor, but we aren't, aren't we?

The Cambodians were also very friendly, but suddenly the one halve kills the other halve.

Professor Chatthip Nartsupha "The Thai village economy in the past", recommendable!

The book is controversial because it stipulates that the basic Thai agricultural society had no need of central powers and that the 'sakdi' system caused more misery than development.

The present situation is certainly not the result of 2500 years development. Unless you see changes as caused by logical forces.

[Narachon]

Is it possible to be in love with a cartoon charactar? I think I love her

Seriously though, I've got a much more racey one but I don't think the mods would let me get away with it

I'm none too happy about having Flummoxed's heaving half-woman on display in the living room for my young daughter to ask me about.

Hey! Where is it?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Is it possible to be in love with a cartoon charactar? I think I love her

Seriously though, I've got a much more racey one but I don't think the mods would let me get away with it

I'm none too happy about having Flummoxed's heaving half-woman on display in the living room for my young daughter to ask me about.

Hey! Where is it?

Now that the thought police are onto it, it won't last long

[Narachon]

Yesterday, I was having an interesting discussion with my girlfriend. It started out by her asking a question, something along the lines of "Why is the sky blue?" And I gave her an answer. Then she asked, "Why are farang smarter than Thais?" Comparing the American and other economies in the west to Thailand's, she was wondering if there was a genetic reason. I told her I didn't think there was anything genitic about it. So then she wanted to know why the American economy was so much more advanced than that in Thailand.

This is quite a difficult question. The reasons I came up with are "Bad government, which leads to bad education, religion and supersitions, and corruption" I'm sure everything I mention leads to a poor economy, but I still don't see how that can explain the vast difference.

Singapore is not that far away, why are they so much more economically advanced than Thailand?

Your girlfiriend posed to you a version of "Yali's question". Yali was a Papuan, who asked a guy called Jared Diamond why it was Europeans who brought "cargo" (and colonialism) to New Guinea and not the other way round. This got Diamond pondering about all the assumptions and stereotypes that Westerners carry around with them, thinking that there must be some sort of inherent superiority factor at work, whether genetic or other wise, which has led to European-peoples domination of much of the globe, whether economically or by brute force (e.g. Iraq and Afghanistan, as v. recent examples) during the past 4 - 5 centuries.

The result was a book called "Guns, Germs and Steel", and I can guarantee it is an excellent read (available from Amazon), if you want to know the reasons. won't spoil it for you, and anyway there's not the space here to cover the topic with justice.

PS Your girlfriend is just as smart as you, probably more so for asking those questions in the first place!

Very good book , and a Pultzer (sp?) prize winner too. I also highly recommend it. It explains everything regarding whys and hows of the development of Advanced cultures perfectly and easily.

[Narachon]

I wouldn't say Thailand is too far "behind"

My thoughts too. I'd put Thailand ahead of the West in terms of society and civilization. Do the math. They've been at it for over 2,500 years and to my mind it's further along the evolutionary path than "Farangland"

But there was no such thing as Thailand or the Thai people in Indochina 2,500 years ago... Now China on the other hand....

[kat]

Religion? What about religion? The cosmological structure reflecting and explaining all other structures of society?

Was it a coincidence that the protestant ethics replaced or modified the catholic ethics in the sixteenth and seventeenth century? Wasn't that related to changes in the socio-economical field?

We still live (in Thailand) in an agricultural society and even during these times of transition and for a long time to come the culture will be based on that.

Mr. Stroll, are you referring to your feeling of well-being, caused by the simple, warm openness of the local character? Could there then be a parallel with the sayings of older generations that 'in former times everything was better'?

The heartwarming warmness of the soup, handed over the fence to the poor neighbour? This in contrast with institutionalised solidarity executed by a nameless civil servant behind a counter?

Yes, people were more carefull in their social relations before. They had to be. But people in power owned other people. They didn't have to be carefull at all.

But yes, for us, it is nice to be here and to enjoy the friendliness of the Thai people. Unless you are poor, but we aren't, aren't we?

The Cambodians were also very friendly, but suddenly the one halve kills the other halve.

Professor Chatthip Nartsupha "The Thai village economy in the past", recommendable!

The book is controversial because it stipulates that the basic Thai agricultural society had no need of central powers and that the 'sakdi' system caused more misery than development.

The present situation is certainly not the result of 2500 years development. Unless you see changes as caused by logical forces.

Limbo, thanks for mentioning the things that I usually refrain from saying, because in the back of my mind I still think that I will be locked up or blacklisted if I discuss Thai history too honestly. But all I can say is read the book Thai Village Economy in the Past, and much will be explained. This book will tell you outright the connection between Monarchy, religion, and nation. In my view, Thailand hasn't really moved away much from the ranking of every citizen under Sak Dina system. Only now instead of rai of land, they size you up by the brand of your watch and mobile phone.

Quoting Narachon:

"But there was no such thing as Thailand or the Thai people in Indochina 2,500 years ago... Now China on the other hand.... "

Of course! How stupid for us to overlook this fact. Thanks for the sobering reality of historical fact Narachon. The concept of a Thai nation didn't even emerge until the 12th to 13th Century (and even then it wasn't Thailand but Siam, which have different connotations as well).

[Flummoxed]

Is it possible to be in love with a cartoon charactar? I think I love her

Seriously though, I've got a much more racey one but I don't think the mods would let me get away with it

I'm none too happy about having Flummoxed's heaving half-woman on display in the living room for my young daughter to ask me about.

Hey! Where is it?

Yep, I got my knuckles rapped by Wolfie Had to remove it. I'll miss her.

[Narachon]

Is it possible to be in love with a cartoon charactar? I think I love her

Seriously though, I've got a much more racey one but I don't think the mods would let me get away with it

I'm none too happy about having Flummoxed's heaving half-woman on display in the living room for my young daughter to ask me about.

Hey! Where is it?

Yep, I got my knuckles rapped by Wolfie Had to remove it. I'll miss her.

Pity..... I'll miss her too.....And I never had the chance to see her either!

[Coffee Dude]

It is anyway astonishing to me that nobody has commented on Thailand's almost miraculous progress since the end of WW2.Despite all the difficulties progress is essentially about economic organisation and here Thailand has done very well, and I detect nothing in the Thai world view (compared say with many Islamic cultures) that will prevent it from achieving parity in my lifetime.

I can say, I am impressed with the rapidity that the Thai society and Thai people have begun to adjust to an international society and in such a relatively short time. Compared to Britain how many centuries? the USA 230 years, European countries for the most part have been at it for longer than history has been recorded very well and still have problems. Thailand as little a fifty years ago was nearly embrionic in it's growth and now it is easily recognizable as a growing capitalistic culture.

I have spoken quite a bit with the staff that works with me in my little business. They all happen to be family. They have asked me, "Why do Falangs have so much money"? The easy answer is, "Well, actually only a few of them do have a lot of money". But I go on to say, It isn't because we are magic. When I was a child.. (when the seas were young and dirt was new)... I lived with my grandmother... much like you did. We didn't have running water in the house, much you like you didn't. I had to go to the toilet in a little wooden house out behind the main house. We had a few chickens a couple of cows and sometimes some pigs. We had a small vegetable garden. That was most of what we lived on. We could sell some eggs and once a year we could sell a cow and couple of pigs to get enough money to buy the rest of what we needed. My point is... We are all born naked and ignorant. Where you go from there is up to you. It took me a very long time to get where I am. In that time I have been up and I have been knocked back down several times. This same thing will likely happen to you in your life. Every time you get knocked down you have to make a choice. You can stay down and hope you don't get kicked while you're there or you can get back up and try it again. I know that most of your life people have told you that you are just a poor Thai and all you will ever be is a poor Thai. But let me tell you something. Don't you believe it!! You can be what ever you have the courage and will power to become. But it won't be easy... If you want easy, it's best for you to stay down when you get knocked down.

I get the distinct feeling from these guys that no one has ever tried even in the slightest way to give them hope and a sense of individual 'response ability'. They let me know through action and demeanor that they appreciate this. And I let them know that when they put the effort forward to do better on a consistent basis that they will get better from my little business in return.

You are absolutely right. There is no real reason for anyone to fail. ther are only circunmstances that make it more difficult for some than others of any gene pool in any society from any cultural background.

Coffee!!!

[Abandon]

oh. someone reading my post just mentioned something to me. ..maybe the most important ingrediant for inventions to occur.

acceptance by society, by the people who would be the ones to benefit from the invention.

if people don't want something new in their world, it will not succeed.

..have you ever seen a computer installed in an office, but never used for whatever reason?

This was my earlier point about the climate making winter life harder, storage of food harder etc. thus fostering invention.

Can you imagine Edison (Ed dEE san) in Thailand.

'hey guys, I've had this great idea. If we refine copper to a pure state, and make it into a wire, and then wind it around a coil, place a series of magnets around it, join it to another wire, and then run the wire through a fine filament encansed in a meticulously formed glass bulb,oh and find some way to spin it really really fast we will get an er...er....er....

[RELATIVES LOUNGING UNDER THE MANGO TREE EATING STICKY RICE] A what??? A candle whoopee.

[ED DEE SAN] And I've had this great idea for a phonograph...

[RELATIVES SINGING AN ISARN SONG UNDER THE MANGO TREE] So we can sing a song without moving our lips. Nice boy that Ed dEE san, did his mum drop him on his head when he was a baby....

[Ed dEE san] And there's this this this microphone so I can talk to you when I'm not here....... and a kinetoscope so we can peep in the hole and see a FLUMMOXED avatar

[RELATIVES] someone drop him on his head again.........

In a fertile land with rich growing season, there is simply no need for the degree of inventiveness to foster the htought processes for an agricultral or industrial revolution. Thus Asian countries fell behind technologically. Not cultrally, nor in human relations though.

[Felt 35]

I dont think Thailand is so far behind the West in thinking and logic, but more that

the Government have forget it takes years with training to get on the top, and that many competitors never even reach the podium but have to accept to only be a competitor and are in fact more or less satisfied with that.

[Coffee Dude]

Can you imagine Edison (Ed dEE san) in Thailand.

'hey guys, I've had this great idea. If we refine copper to a pure state, and make it into a wire, and then wind it around a coil, place a series of magnets around it, join it to another wire, and then run the wire through a fine filament encansed in a meticulously formed glass bulb,oh and find some way to spin it really really fast we will get an er...er....er....

[ED DEE SAN] And I've had this great idea for a phonograph...

[Ed dEE san] And there's this this this microphone so I can talk to you when I'm not here....... and a kinetoscope so we can peep in the hole and see a FLUMMOXED avatar

That stuffs' modern day equivalent all fits nicely into Karaoke bars though.

Progress can be ugly.

Coffee!!!

[bollox]

stop arguing, we're fast catching up !

and i must say that only japan has been economically successful without much reliance on immigrants, unlike the west e.g. the US exploits the blacks, the UK suppresses the pak.is , France makes the Algerians work for peanuts and Germany treats the Turks like sh.ite

[IamMaiC]

Yesterday, I was having an interesting discussion with my girlfriend. It started out by her asking a question, something along the lines of "Why is the sky blue?" And I gave her an answer. Then she asked, "Why are farang smarter than Thais?" Comparing the American and other economies in the west to Thailand's, she was wondering if there was a genetic reason. I told her I didn't think there was anything genitic about it. So then she wanted to know why the American economy was so much more advanced than that in Thailand.

This is quite a difficult question. The reasons I came up with are "Bad government, which leads to bad education, religion and supersitions, and corruption" I'm sure everything I mention leads to a poor economy, but I still don't see how that can explain the vast difference.

Singapore is not that far away, why are they so much more economically advanced than Thailand?

The US economy has so many oppurtunities to invest money or start a business, You can also get money from the goverment to start a small business.

I'm not sure if this is more advanced but their is more Oppurtunity than Thailand, But I think Thailand is definately catching up, My wife's friend just started a real estate business in udon thani.

I don't think that could have been done just a few years ago. It just takes time The United States economy did not blossom overnight either.

[Limbo]

Is it possible to be in love with a cartoon charactar? I think I love her

Seriously though, I've got a much more racey one but I don't think the mods would let me get away with it

I'm none too happy about having Flummoxed's heaving half-woman on display in the living room for my young daughter to ask me about.

Hey! Where is it?

Yep, I got my knuckles rapped by Wolfie Had to remove it. I'll miss her.

Pity..... I'll miss her too.....And I never had the chance to see her either!

Yes, absolutely, I know the feeling!

[kat]

It is anyway astonishing to me that nobody has commented on Thailand's almost miraculous progress since the end of WW2.Despite all the difficulties progress is essentially about economic organisation and here Thailand has done very well, and I detect nothing in the Thai world view (compared say with many Islamic cultures) that will prevent it from achieving parity in my lifetime.

I can say, I am impressed with the rapidity that the Thai society and Thai people have begun to adjust to an international society and in such a relatively short time. Compared to Britain how many centuries? the USA 230 years, European countries for the most part have been at it for longer than history has been recorded very well and still have problems. Thailand as little a fifty years ago was nearly embrionic in it's growth and now it is easily recognizable as a growing capitalistic culture.

I have spoken quite a bit with the staff that works with me in my little business. They all happen to be family. They have asked me, "Why do Falangs have so much money"? The easy answer is, "Well, actually only a few of them do have a lot of money". But I go on to say, It isn't because we are magic. When I was a child.. (when the seas were young and dirt was new)... I lived with my grandmother... much like you did. We didn't have running water in the house, much you like you didn't. I had to go to the toilet in a little wooden house out behind the main house. We had a few chickens a couple of cows and sometimes some pigs. We had a small vegetable garden. That was most of what we lived on. We could sell some eggs and once a year we could sell a cow and couple of pigs to get enough money to buy the rest of what we needed. My point is... We are all born naked and ignorant. Where you go from there is up to you. It took me a very long time to get where I am. In that time I have been up and I have been knocked back down several times. This same thing will likely happen to you in your life. Every time you get knocked down you have to make a choice. You can stay down and hope you don't get kicked while you're there or you can get back up and try it again. I know that most of your life people have told you that you are just a poor Thai and all you will ever be is a poor Thai. But let me tell you something. Don't you believe it!! You can be what ever you have the courage and will power to become. But it won't be easy... If you want easy, it's best for you to stay down when you get knocked down.

I get the distinct feeling from these guys that no one has ever tried even in the slightest way to give them hope and a sense of individual 'response ability'. They let me know through action and demeanor that they appreciate this. And I let them know that when they put the effort forward to do better on a consistent basis that they will get better from my little business in return.

You are absolutely right. There is no real reason for anyone to fail. ther are only circunmstances that make it more difficult for some than others of any gene pool in any society from any cultural background.

Coffee!!!

Well spoken, and inspiring.

<deleted> quote:

"stop arguing, we're fast catching up ! and i must say that only japan has been economically successful without much reliance on immigrants, unlike the west e.g. the US exploits the blacks, the UK suppresses the pak.is , France makes the Algerians work for peanuts and Germany treats the Turks like sh.ite"

And Thailand who exploits the Burmese, hilltribes, Issan, and most of their own women, Japan who exploits Koreans and Chinese (and was also rebuilt after WWII with help from the United Naitons), the Turks who exploit the Kurds, Pakistan who exploits the kiln workers and other immigrant Muslim laborers, and on and on and on.

My point is not who exploited who, but what has each country done about it in their long or short histories.

[Limbo]

Is it possible to be in love with a cartoon charactar? I think I love her

Seriously though, I've got a much more racey one but I don't think the mods would let me get away with it

I'm none too happy about having Flummoxed's heaving half-woman on display in the living room for my young daughter to ask me about.

Hey! Where is it?

Yep, I got my knuckles rapped by Wolfie Had to remove it. I'll miss her.

Pity..... I'll miss her too.....And I never had the chance to see her either!

Yes, absolutely, I know the feeling!

OK, if it really doesn't work, try a simple sausage and make your own mustard to it. Colman's powder you can get almost everywhere nowadays.

[Limbo]

Is it possible to be in love with a cartoon charactar? I think I love her

Seriously though, I've got a much more racey one but I don't think the mods would let me get away with it

I'm none too happy about having Flummoxed's heaving half-woman on display in the living room for my young daughter to ask me about.

Hey! Where is it?

Yep, I got my knuckles rapped by Wolfie Had to remove it. I'll miss her.

Pity..... I'll miss her too.....And I never had the chance to see her either!

Yes, absolutely, I know the feeling!

OK, if it really doesn't work, try a simple sausage and make your own mustard to it. Colman's powder you can get almost everywhere nowadays.

And it is really not difficult to make, don't be afraid boys.

[Boon Mee]

I wouldn't say Thailand is too far "behind"

My thoughts too. I'd put Thailand ahead of the West in terms of society and civilization. Do the math. They've been at it for over 2,500 years and to my mind it's further along the evolutionary path than "Farangland"

Now there is something you and I agree on. But what exactly makes you say that?

Perhaps we need to attempt to look at cultural values after all.

A "tempered" mai pen rai attitude towards conflicts they encounter on a day to day basis. The attitude of generousity and dealing with stress in a place like Bangkok. Dealing with superiors and inferiors in a gracious manner.

Basically, Stroll, it's the ability Thais have to deal with change in their life and not lose their "cool". I'd site them as the ultimate Politicians as well. This goes back throughout their entire history as a country up through WW2 in dealing with Japan's occupation.

A rather large subject here and a few posts can't do it justice. But, it's one with which I'm constantly fascinated.

[Ricardo]

I have a 75 year old American grandfather, who says that when he was young, England was considered the main superpower.

I suspect that Dear Leader Blair may believe that this is still true.

On the other hand , we do have LHR-airport, with cheap flights from many airlines to almost all parts of the globe - now that's what I call civilised.

[bollox]

And Thailand who exploits the Burmese, hilltribes, Issan, and most of their own women, Japan who exploits Koreans and Chinese (and was also rebuilt after WWII with help from the United Naitons), the Turks who exploit the Kurds, Pakistan who exploits the kiln workers and other immigrant Muslim laborers, and on and on and on.

My point is not who exploited who, but what has each country done about it in their long or short histories.

wot the heck r u talkin about ? visit this webpage and look at race/ethinicity, it says 99% of the population r japanese. so do u think 1% Koreans have driven Japan forward ? <deleted>

loads of blacks were caught & sent to the US, and have since been there.

turks/kurds r the same thing, so are pakis/kilins.

and <deleted> burmese & hilltribes have actually fled their hometowns and flocked to thailand. in fact, we've been trying to stop them coming in but without success ....

[kat]

What am I talking about? Obviously about issues that soar way over your comprehension. Look up history (hint, you're going to have to vist more than one webpage), and read up on Japanese history concerning Korean comfort women and a little incident in China. Secondly, much of the immigrant labor in Japan is new (and Chinese).

And your point about Burmese and hilltribes:

"and <deleted> burmese & hilltribes have actually fled their hometowns and flocked to thailand. in fact, we've been trying to stop them coming in but without success ...."

shows a level of ignorance that is staggering. There have been hilltribe ethnic groups that have lived in Thailand for multiple generations that still do not have identity cards. And there have been highly publicized cases of a group of more than 1,000 hilltribe people who unjustly had their identities taken away by a corrupt provincial authority. And to categorize Burmese refugees and migrants as people who fled their hometowns - well, you are simply ridiculous bordering on the verge of buffonery and I really can't communicate with you any longer.

Nevermind even trying to discuss issues in other lands; you obviously haven't got a clue as to what is happening in your own.

[stroll]

and <deleted> burmese & hilltribes have actually fled their hometowns and flocked to thailand. in fact, we've been trying to stop them coming in but without success ....

"We"? when have you last inspected a factory illegally employing Burmese? Of course no Thai is involved in the setup nor profits from the substandard working conditions and salaries a fraction of the already low minimum wage.

I congratulate you to your most informed and enlightened assessment of the situation!

[bollox]

and <deleted> burmese & hilltribes have actually fled their hometowns and flocked to thailand. in fact, we've been trying to stop them coming in but without success ....

"We"? when have you last inspected a factory illegally employing Burmese? Of course no Thai is involved in the setup nor profits from the substandard working conditions and salaries a fraction of the already low minimum wage.

I congratulate you to your most informed and enlightened assessment of the situation!

yes yes yes, i feel sorry for the burmese. thailand may be exploitative but the immigrants would not have fled their land and moved to thailand if they were not expecting a ('relatively') brighter prospect